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New Arken Offering
- Thread starter fdkay
- Start date
I'm not sticking up for that dude, but let's also not fool ourselves thinking that just because we're told that something is worth $3,500 by a manufacturer, that it's actually worth $3,500 in reality.
Is a new 3/4-ton diesel 4x4 pickup truck worth $100,000? FUCK NO! That's an entire mortgage loan to many folks! A GD pickup truck shouldn't cost as much an entire house.
Now you are comparing apples to oranges. yes, I agree a new pickup is NOT worth $100k, its rediculous. But compare that to another truck, NOT a rifle optic to a truck. Can you compare a 3/4 ton or 1 ton to a mazda pickup, fuck no you cant
My point is the Kahles IS considered a tier 1 optic, the Arken is NOT. Really not much to compare when it's apples to oranges. . Maybe it was the salesman condescending attitude about the conversation. important rule of sales, DONT bash other competitors, makes you look bad
I‘m not saying that. I’m saying that Kahles turrets aren’t all that great.
I agree, if I was going after tier 1 optics, I wouldn’t even consider a kahles.
Turrets are meh.. same with glass. Much better options in that range for me anyway. The gen 2 razor would be considered before kahles. And I don’t even like it all that well.
I respect your opinion, but when Kahles is in the top 3 for what professional shooters use, I think they are considered a tier1 scope (maybe the lower end of tier 1)
You're getting defensive and twisting what I'm saying to fit your point. We both agree the 2 scopes are not on the same page. Anyone who tries to deny that is a fool.
But my side-point was that there are also plenty of tier-1 optics that are NOT worth the price. My point with the trucks is to lead back to this... Is the Kahles worth $3,000 more than the Arken? Do you really get $3,000 worth of scope over the Arken? Functionally, is there anything a $3,500 scope can functionally do, that the $550 Arken cannot, other than the glass not being in the same ballpark? Does it track just as well? Are the turrets just as solid? Is the ZS accurate? Is it built well? Is the fit & finish nice? Are the adjustment rings smooth? Lifetime warranty, and a Precision Tracking Guarantee? If so, where is that extra $3,000 at?
That's all I'm saying...
Back to trucks...Apples to Apples... Is there really $50,000 in upgrades to a new Laramie Limited 2500 Cummins, over a Tradesman Cummins with the same cab size, same bed size, both 4x4... Does leather, heated/cooled seats, some extra gizmos, and a big entertainment system really worth an extra $50,000?
Defensive, I'm clarifying a point, you seem hell bent (defensive) on proving your point. you could have just kept it simple bro, no need to bring in trucks, etc... and yes, to the individual those points (turrets, reticle, glass, etc..) ARE worth the price and what the market will bear. We have tiers of everything acording to you get what you pay for.
I think we are getting lop sided again.
Kahles and Arken isn’t a good comparison, but if we are going to compare turrets, let’s get away from the feel and look at percentage of tracking error. The Arken is way under 1% I think it’s running under .5 % to be honest. I don’t know the stats on Kahles but I would think it’s probably running the same, in that regard they’re comparable.
As far as feel, I think they feel different, but not better than each other.
Some guys take a BMW to work, some guys ride the bus, but both are at work.
Kahles and Arken isn’t a good comparison, but if we are going to compare turrets, let’s get away from the feel and look at percentage of tracking error. The Arken is way under 1% I think it’s running under .5 % to be honest. I don’t know the stats on Kahles but I would think it’s probably running the same, in that regard they’re comparable.
As far as feel, I think they feel different, but not better than each other.
Some guys take a BMW to work, some guys ride the bus, but both are at work.
Another thing to look at where the separation from top tier to lower tier is coatings, it’s been proven that most top tier glass pulls away from the Arken fairly well long range and low light, but it has decent glass nonetheless, some say very comparable to some upper tiers. That may be true, but what about 10 years from now? Are the coatings durable, and long lasting? Or is this optics going to look like a pair of amber sunglasses?
I can just about bet the kahles will still look pretty good.
I can just about bet the kahles will still look pretty good.
you make a good point. But the Kahles tracking was 100% in the SH tracking test for 12 individual scopes. Not one Arken in the test. So where do the Arken tracking test numbers come from? Arken? Or just 1 individual test? Please dont say Joe from Cyclops on YT because he clearly is biased.
Personally to me, Im not really a click/audible turrets guy...what matters to me is the scope tracks. Some scopes out there like Kahles, Bushnell, etc.. have a long history of tracking. I really dispise when a salesperson knocks down a competitor in public(private between friends is fine) that really isnt cool.
There’s several test out there with the Arken, most done with respectable guys. I’m not sure if I ever seen that dude do a measured tracking test, but I don’t watch his videos.
I think we need to be more realistic.
What’s the best deal under 500$? Arken sh4 Gen 2.
What’s the best deal under 1000$ ?
Bushnell DMR2!
Arken EP series is probably in second place.
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Still haven't answered the question... Glass aside (because they're not the same) are the other functions THAT MUCH BETTER to justify $3,000 more?I did answer the question, it's IS justified by the consumer for their own personal reasons (the person that sopends the $3K for the scope) supply and demand.....there's PLENTY of people paying $3k+ for scopes.....whether you agree or not the value of a scope, it's supply and demand....and the demand is there!
I just got a Riton X5 5-25x56 for an AR15 from BDU for $515.....locking turret, zero stop and illumination. It's actually a nice scope for the money. I'd like toi see it compared to the Arken and Strike EagleThere’s several test out there with the Arken, most done with respectable guys. I’m not sure if I ever seen that dude do a measured tracking test, but I don’t watch his videos.
I think we need to be more realistic.
What’s the best deal under 500$? Arken sh4 Gen 2.
What’s the best deal under 1000$ ?
Bushnell DMR2!
Arken EP series is probably in second place.
Now I wanna know how that Riton x5 compares to the Ep5. Who has both?
The Riton looks promising.
There's a difference between pointing out the differences, benefits (or shortfalls) of one product to another and just putting simply down another company to make a sale. Using tact and showing the differences is alot more professional than the opposite. Alot of times there's some untruths when the rumors fly, thats why.
But all the guy said, according to you, was the Arken turrets were better. That’s not unprofessional. Knowing what K turrets feel like I’m inclined to agree.
One thing that separates the Riton is the 50mm objective. I honestly think my 56mm objective strike eagle looks like a dang telescope. I much prefer the 50mm so that’s is a persuasive factor for some.
Sure, because you werent there for the entire conversation. I dont want to get into the whole conversation, but like I said a few times it was condescending the way it was said and there other comments made. Let's leave it at that
Glass is a huge deal, that is why people pay the price for tier one optics, if mirage isn't extreme with the top optics you can see the rings on a BR or F class target at 1000 yds., at 1 mile there is a huge difference in optics. I still want to at least look through one of these Arkens to see for myself, I still have never seen on in the wild. I shoot at TVP at least 20 times a year and look through a lot of optics, waiting for someone to show up with a Arken, not sure if that will happen though.
I’ll be up there this summer, I don’t have a 5-25 yet, but I got a 4-16 sh4 and ep4 6-24. I’m not sure, but I might pick up a 5-25 I’m waiting on more reports about it. We had a 4-16 ep4 up there last spring, that little center dot really shined at long range. I was surprised how nice it was, I sold it because of that little dot to my buddy who had it up there, looking at the mile plate, I instantly regretted selling it.
It's important to remember the folks shilling these scopes are still clinging to "I like the way the turrets feel" and "the number per revolution confuses me ".
That speaks for itself.
That speaks for itself.
I’m about the same, I normally won’t even look at the numbers on the mag ring, I’ll just dial back till I get a good picture, with most of my scopes it’s usually between 15-20 power when I look at it.
Someone mention about Riton. Their top tier use Japanese glass is really nice. Those Japanese glass has the quality of Japanese glass. Not all Japanese glasses are good. I’m just hoping the EP5 weren’t using lower end Japanese glass. I do prefer a high end Chinese glass like what some Athlon used. I care about quality not those HD or ED sales pitch
Still wait on my EP5. I’ll be happy if it has high quality Chinese glass. Optic coating is about quality not were the origin.
Still wait on my EP5. I’ll be happy if it has high quality Chinese glass. Optic coating is about quality not were the origin.
My Nikon Black FFP scope did the same thing that is being described. I wwould go through and set up the diopter using a white background to get the reticle in sharp focus. Dialing out the parallex resulted in a blurry out of focus target. Adjust the diopter to get both the image and reticle in focus and it was good. Change distance and would have to do the same thing. I finally gave up and returned to scope to Nikon for a refund. This scope also had a canted reticle making things even more fun. Most likely the reason Nikon left the scope market. QC sucked
I think if the ep5 has as good as glass as the strike eagle 5-25 people should be very happy with it.
That's where I'm at, and what my expectations are in line with.
For me personally I'll still have fun comparing it with my NX8, Gen 3 Razor, Diamond Tactical, and SH4. Wish I still had my Strike Eagle and Midas Tac to throw in there. But the more I read the mind numbing arguments on this thread, the more I'm less interested in posting my thoughts.
Unfortunately, there’s lots of guys who would post their thoughts, but like you, they are reserved. I completely understand that.
Lots of good data not being shared across the board because of guys stroking egos and running off new members as well. It’s rampant here.
I would like to know your thoughts on how it compares to your current line up, I’d like to see it compared to the Athlon offerings in its price range as well, particularly the helos gen 2 6-24.
I still probably will, but not with the interest of establishing a hierarchy with glass. I've always tried to contribute a helpful opinion, and many on here do that. Like you said, egos get in the way here sometimes. Maybe if we all realized we're trying to help a potential buyer on a first scope or something, we would avoid bashing for the sake of making one's own opinion more valid than the next.
% agreeI agree 100 % it is important to give honest reviews. The bashing is not needed, on the other hand the shilling is just as bad. Stating the scope is as good as any in the $2K or under, is very misleading to potential buyers.
Exactly. I'm more ok with "you decide if there is $xxxx more value". Some people with lots of glass experience will absolutely say there is, but some won't. The beauty is that you can do whatever the hell you want with your money. Everyone has their own value metric.
I'm looking for obvious defects that would deter buyers. Subjectivity in glass, not so much. Although I do appreciate unbiased comparisons.
For the life of me, I don't understand the bashing on a 550 dollar optic with rings, throw lever, level, bag, flip ups in the first place. It's like you set out to purchase a Ford pinto to save money, but have the mindset that it would have the muscle and performance of a corvette, and then stand around and bitch and whine when it doesnt. Who the fuck does that.. I mean this is a FFP optic, illuminated, 5-25x56, tactile audible turrets, zero stop, decent tree reticle with center dot and with accessories for 549. So if it tracks true and Illumination works and everything seems to work fine, where the fuck did you think the optic would suffer the most??? It dont take a rocket scientist does it? I guess Arken should just be like "Tell ya what guys, we messed up, next time we'll make sure we get ya that schott glass in there next time and still keep it at 549 for ya too, no problem".. So guys If ya want a TT or a ZCO and the like, there are plenty of our vendors here standing in line to take your 3800 to 5000 dollars gladly, but if you want an optic that's I don't know maybe 50% of those optics at 1/8th of the price, buy an Arken and go fucking shoot it, enjoy it and when it fucking dies, buy another one and have some more fun.. I like expensive toys as much as everyone else, but I can't put 2k-5k optics on every rifle I own, that's where these and other scopes like them come in.
It's also funny that people attack their marketing. What's the point of that? If "ED Japanese Glass" sells more scopes for them, good for them. If it causes someone else to stroke out with range with the implication it's just as good as their $4000 optic, I'm ok with that too I guess. Just do it quietly.
They don’t want anyone in the club if they didn’t spend 2k$.
I’ve yet to see anyone that owns one do anything other than try to explain what they are seeing or try to pump the brakes on the runaway train about glass quality. We have all repeatedly said it feels good, repeatedly noted that it *shouldnt* compare to 2k dollar scopes in terms of glass.
These threads continually say it shouldn’t compete with 2k dollar glass quality, then someone who doesn’t own one implies it does, and the e people that have looked through them say it doesn’t and we are back to square one as being haters. Or, someone tried to quantify what they are seeing and the same happens. It’s exhausting and the poor us mentality is too.
Most of these threads is taken up by arken people crying about people being mean to them, and it’s not even those of us who actually have one doing it.
These threads continually say it shouldn’t compete with 2k dollar glass quality, then someone who doesn’t own one implies it does, and the e people that have looked through them say it doesn’t and we are back to square one as being haters. Or, someone tried to quantify what they are seeing and the same happens. It’s exhausting and the poor us mentality is too.
Most of these threads is taken up by arken people crying about people being mean to them, and it’s not even those of us who actually have one doing it.
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