Rifle Scopes New Army Reticle, Details Inside

[Lowlight]

I have the details and the images for the new Army Reticle associated with the Leupold HD5 Contract Scope for the Sniper Rifle program recently announced.

This is the actual reticle being fielded, the Patent Information because we know people have been looking up the information from the Patent Office is: 10042177

Reticle at 18x,

This reticle improves the Rapid Target Engagement by cutting the values in 1/2 and removing the basic math. Instead of substracting, the reticle just gives you the answer to hold on a UKD target once flash milled.

There is a Scope version of this reticle and a Spotter version of the reticle. The difference is that ranging Hats used to flash mil, the Spotter does not have these Top Hats across it.

This reticle is designed around a 308, faster, flatter shooting calibers will require a similar amount of math to previous versions, it's roughly based on the sniper rifle being used.

The reticle is the Army's Propietary design, which is a fancy way to say, it's not being sold to the public, but nothing is classified in the reticle. All the elements have been used before in other options availables at given moments in history.

There are many articles and images of what people think is being used, this is the no shit answer.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

This is not April 1, is it? Did I miss this two weeks ago?

Well, interested in the explanation of how it all works. Maybe we'll be impressed!

We heard it here first! For better or worse.

Sirhr

 

[_Windrider_]

meh. It’s a decent design. I’m just happy they didn’t give Horus the contract.

 

[Lowlight]

The FB Comments are funny

First impressions can matter, those initial reactions say a lot, not about this reticle, but these grids as a whole.

 

[schmi015]

modified h59 so H60.....

 

[Enfieldr]

What are the 5 underlined numbers for on the upper right side of the reticle?

 

[Ryridesmotox]

What are the 5 underlined numbers for on the upper right side of the reticle?

Ranging humanoid targets I believe. A quick reference so you can get a real quick SWAG on a person and then put the appropriate elevation on em to get close enough to score a probable hit.

 

[Nathan11B]

I’m confused... is this a reticle or a protractor

 

[seansmd]

The top picture looks like a dot matrix signature of a woman's hips, I've been sheltering in place too long!

 

[Lowlight]

The 1 - 5 lines are the Rapid target engagement section

You put it a person and the one that matches is your dope. So 1 mil, 2, 3, 4, 5.

 

[Defender3]

I have the details and the images for the new Army Reticle associated with the Leupold HD5 Contract Scope for the Sniper Rifle program recently announced.

View attachment 7298474

This is the actual reticle being fielded, the Patent Information because we know people have been looking up the information from the Patent Office is: 10042177

That top picture - Sing it Queen - Fat bottom girls...you make the rockin' world go round...

I couldn't resist, please don't ban me.

 

[_Windrider_]

I mean do we really need a grid at 1 mil?

wait it’s based off a 308, carry on.

 

[Lowlight]

Here is my take on a Horus Style reticle, this is my opinion having worked with the system through a place like Rifles Only going back to 2002, and teaching on the reticle.

A grid reticle of this type is the lowest common denominator for a reticle. It was initially designed for a guy who was too busy to train and wanted to shoot large game animals around the world with no practice or training.

The grid is mils, and we all know mils work, holding over we knows works. How your brain interprets the reticle and your ability to use it in the manner it was designed or will let you operate depends greatly on the shooter.

Our brain likes defined aiming point, grids can and often do confuse the brain and if you look at a host of different grid reticles, pay close attention to what actually draws your eye. It's not the center, it's whatever happens to stick out.

Without practice, the speed is not there, without practice the accuracy is not there, without practice, spotting around or though it is not there. But you can get up to speed quickly on it because it's just counting lines based on our dope and we know our dope, we know how to count and looking at the lines they give you numbers to help you.

it's good to start a shooter off on the horus, but we have over the years, the better the shooter, the less they need this type of reticle to be successful. But if you are a young soldier just starting out with a lot of things on your mind, this works.

It's for the Private on the line, it's for the beginner on the line, it's for the guy who doesn't have the time or will to practice in order to make them look good. It can make you look good, but I have also seen it make people look bad by using the wrong line. Under time and stress it's not uncommon to see people hold the wrong line.

It's really just a modified H59, which has been used and is considered one of the more effective designs. The problem in the past was balancing the line thickness to reticle effectiveness. Sometimes they nail it, othertimes. you have to overcome.

Mils work, we all know this, you can hold over any reticle, including a P3 Mil-Dot, how you use it is the key, but that is the same for everything

 

[Lowlight]

 

[TheGerman]

Wow, someone bought into a whizbang power point presentation.

I know how the Horus reticles and the 'Christmas tree' layout works and have used it; I've also been phasing all my optics with a Horus reticle in it out. There's some benefit to it in that assuming you can manage the recoil, you can get a better idea of where the round impacted and make a faster adjustment. There's also the downside that all of that shit in there covers up a lot of things at distance. On a H59 (or H58?) the center post completely devours a paper plate at 300 yards and most of a target backer. What else aren't you seeing?

Oh, and I absolutely love having to tilt the optic down, so I can actually PID the target in the top 1/3 of it.

And yes, its meant to shoot at people sized targets and not plates. But generally, the people sized targets are obscured by terrain and buildings and aren't just standing there giving you a 5-6 foot target or a 3 foot torso to aim at.

Seeing as how we are still shooting at shit in the desert, the mirage plays a bigger part as well and obscures even more of the fine space you have between the reticle 'spots'.

It's just a weird utilization. Why not put slightly less busy, grid reticles in the spotters and use less busy reticles in the guns, focusing on a quick Mil'ing of a torso and man sized target, achieved easily by a 'side' reticle calibrated to this and then putting the Christmas tree shit for maybe the first 2 MILs under the crosshair as thats where you will need them 99% of the time?

 

[Ravenworks]

It looks WAY to busy for me.
The German pretty much said what I was thinking about.
Some like,I am firmly in the camp.that absolutely does not like it.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Not a fan.

But I bet leupold rocks it, like they do everything.

 

[TheGerman]

Not a fan.

But I bet leupold rocks it, like they do everything.

That reticle is what is used in the Leupold Bat Signal.

 

[308pirate]

It looks WAY to busy for me

Agree, it would be a pass. But it makes sense considering LL's explanation of the intended user's expectations.

 

[Lowlight]

The fact we are still operating full time in the desert is one reason why,

But pay attention to this,

For me, having been to the desert, and to jungles, forget just general woods, this is where the Horus falls down and even more so because of the illumination. The lack of a complete illumination means you cannot turn it on and fix this.

Understand too, the Army did this, not Horus. I believe they actually have a battle happening over this design not being a Horus product.

this is a result of the complaints made in the past surrounding this topic. The sales pitch from the past lead to this being the future. The monster created is not necessarily a good one, but the guys behind this reticle are working within the system they have in place. That system is a hard one to get around.

it's a tool, tools have a purpose and a limitation, the key with this is understanding the limitations before committing to the purpose.

 

[Kickin45]

Looks like the Crimson Trace LR-1 reticle.

 

[_Windrider_]

The fact we are still operating full time in the desert is one reason why,

But pay attention to this,
View attachment 7298571

For me, having been to the desert, and to jungles, forget just general woods, this is where the Horus falls down and even more so because of the illumination. The lack of a complete illumination means you cannot turn it on and fix this.

Understand too, the Army did this, not Horus. I believe they actually have a battle happening over this design not being a Horus product.

this is a result of the complaints made in the past surrounding this topic. The sales pitch from the past lead to this being the future. The monster created is not necessarily a good one, but the guys behind this reticle are working within the system they have in place. That system is a hard one to get around.

it's a tool, tools have a purpose and a limitation, the key with this is understanding the limitations before committing to the purpose.

The only “tree” i use now is the SKMR.

 

[AMTGMC]

If this is for 308 couldn't they have put a nice brick pattern below 9mils? ?

 

[DOA]

Is it just me or does anyone else's eye start wandering over the the vertical line instead of concentrating on the center dot?

 

[Qazwsx]

Its not going to be a big deal for the end users. Makes the H59 RET techniques which everyone is training on a little easier. I wish the mil numbers were bolder, and they had some at the vertical stadia as well. Hopefully it is thick enough to see well under nods and thermal. As far as unusable/not great in the desert, Id have to disagree, the tree reticle makes the most sense in the desert because your fields of fire are generally less restricted and the likelihood of targets popping up at multiple ranges makes the use of holds more desirable in overwatch of an area versus wooded terrain where the grid is less useful. Trees just have a ton of real world validation in the desert at this point and users like them.

Overwatching a specific target one can still dial since under stress people still tend to hold center even when they know they need 3.8 etc. A training issue but dialing for that specific instance is a technique as long as people train to return turrets to zero when they break a position.

 

[Lowlight]

Its not going to be a big deal for the end users. Makes the H59 RET techniques which everyone is training on a little easier. I wish the mil numbers were bolder, and they had some at the vertical stadia as well. Hopefully it is thick enough to see well under nods and thermal. As far as unusable/not great in the desert, Id have to disagree, the tree reticle makes the most sense in the desert because your fields of fire are generally less restricted and the likelihood of targets popping up at multiple ranges makes the use of holds more desirable in overwatch of an area versus wooded terrain where the grid is less useful. Trees just have a ton of real world validation in the desert at this point and users like them.

Overwatching a specific target one can still dial since under stress people still tend to hold center even when they know they need 3.8 etc. A training issue but dialing for that specific instance is a technique as long as people train to return turrets to zero when they break a position.

YOu have it backwards, I said it works in the desert not in the jungle

 

[tomcatfan]

How fast does your target have to be moving at 500 yards to have to hold 28 mils of lead. Apparently 47 mph according to Strelok using my RPR 556 and an 80 gr eld. I never understood going that far to the sides with numbers when it would be better for the eye and aiming to have a thick line instead.

 

[Lowlight]

They have a vehicle lead deal with some reticles

 

[Bender]

Can’t wait for Horus to show up with lawsuits. Lmao! I like the Reticle, but I’m not fond of Horus at all.

 

[Lowlight]

I kinda think they already did, but it was kept really quiet

I had heard rumor they did file a suit

 

[tomcatfan]

They have a vehicle lead deal with some reticles

That's funny, for what ever reason I didn't think about vehicles. Yea... that makes sense.

 

[Long Range 338]

So I get the rapid ranging idea using the tophats, but I agree with @TheGerman that it is just too busy overall. Currently I'm digging the MSR2 and liking its capabilities. Also after considering the new reticle from ZCO, how would their rapid ranging method compare against something like the tophats for speed of use?

 

[Lowlight]

The Zco style is giving you a range, the Army is looking to shortcut that method,

They just want the hold, they don't really need the range per say, but they only want and need to know what to hold which is the current change to the Top Hats,

They are the answer, you don't have to determine one based on distance, the distance is baked in, the answer is the hold, so it's super-fast,

 

[uffduh]

I'll wait for the MOA version

 

[Steel head]

I don’t think it’s perfect but I could use it without complaining a lot.

 

[Lowlight]

There are somethings I would change,

That offset bracket to the left draws the eye away from the center, but most of it is pretty standard Horus

 

[kriller134]

What’s the horizontal lines at 10&20 mils for?

 

[TheGerman]

The Zco style is giving you a range, the Army is looking to shortcut that method,

They just want the hold, they don't really need the range per say, but they only want and need to know what to hold which is the current change to the Top Hats,

They are the answer, you don't have to determine one based on distance, the distance is baked in, the answer is the hold, so it's super-fast,

As far as the hold, do you mean they are teaching/want to tech to hold both the elevation and the wind? From the reticle I'm guessing both.

Huge problems with that I can see right off, and have seen people struggle with while using the Horus type reticles.

- Do the entire hold on the dot/hash and recoil effects where the impact ends up in the 'tree' related to the center reticle and their hold. Now there's confusion as to did they move .5MIL let and .4 MIl up under recoil and add/subtract while looking at the reticle begins while hoping they are right.

- Do the entire hold on the reticle, get a correction and didn't focus on just the dot/hash they had the target on. Now the adjustment starting point is in question.

- Shots get lost in the' tree 'and you have no idea where it went

 

[Steel head]

What’s the horizontal lines at 10&20 mils for?

Probably just quick reference

 

[Steel head]

As far as the hold, do you mean they are teaching/want to tech to hold both the elevation and the wind? From the reticle I'm guessing both.

Huge problems with that I can see right off, and have seen people struggle with while using the Horus type reticles.

- Do the entire hold on the dot/hash and recoil effects where the impact ends up in the 'tree' related to the center reticle and their hold. Now there's confusion as to did they move .5MIL let and .4 MIl up under recoil and add/subtract while looking at the reticle begins while hoping they are right.

- Do the entire hold on the reticle, get a correction and didn't focus on just the dot/hash they had the target on. Now the adjustment starting point is in question.

- Shots get lost in the' tree 'and you have no idea where it went

Yea but that’s what has been taught.
Navy guy I know tries to hold everything even when it not in his best interest

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Why not just use T3 and be done with all this other shit? I always thought the Horis stuff was bullshit and never have them the time of day. I like a tree but a lot of them are like someone sneezed on the lense while building the scope. I tried T3 and actually like it and it works, nowhere near as cluttered as this stuff.

 

[_Windrider_]

Why not just use T3 and be done with all this other shit? I always thought the Horis stuff was bullshit and never have them the time of day. I like a tree but a lot of them are like someone sneezed on the lense while building the scope. I tried T3 and actually like it and it works, nowhere near as cluttered as this stuff.

Isn’t a tremor a Horus ret? And even if it’s not, TH can eat a _____

 

[TheGerman]

Yea but that’s what has been taught.
Navy guy I know tries to hold everything even when it not in his best interest

How much of that is due to either someone/some company pimping their reticle/method as a 'fix' and the actual problem being that most of the optics in inventory wouldn't pass a tracking test, so relying on a reticle that isn't mechanical is the answer?

 

[Steel head]

How much of that is due to either someone/some company pimping their reticle/method as a 'fix' and the actual problem being that most of the optics in inventory wouldn't pass a tracking test, so relying on a reticle that isn't mechanical is the answer?

Probably some.
He knows a certain Horus proponent quite well.
I personally practice full holds every time I go shooting.
It’s far easier for me to get lost than just holding wind and dialing elevation and I practice at least once a week.
It’s not bad when your holding minor amounts but when I’m deep into the reticle it gets tough sometimes especially on small steel.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Isn’t a tremor a Horus ret? And even if it’s not, TH can eat a _____

Yea, I wasn't saying T3 wasnt, just that it's nowhere near as much stuff to look at as the other horus stuff. I'm not here to defend TH or anything like that, I just don't see the appeal to all the screen door type grid reticles and how they're suposed to be simpler or quicker.

 

[_Windrider_]

Yea, I wasn't saying T3 wasnt, just that it's nowhere near as much stuff to look at as the other horus stuff. I'm not here to defend TH or anything like that, I just don't see the appeal to all the screen door type grid reticles and how they're suposed to be simpler or quicker.

I learned on an H59. That lasted about 6 months. The SKMR3 is as tree reticle as it gets now for me, although I don’t find the NF MIl-XT to awful. But it’s a crutch to me, much like a level. I like an open reticle, mil-c, MSR2, P4f. That’s my jam now.

plus in all honesty, I just refuse to pay what Horus charges for their stuff.

 

[Lowlight]

The T3 is more cluttered if you compare them the T3 has a lot more going on and much of it has a fudge factor

 

[Steel head]

I learned on an H59. That lasted about 6 months. The SKMR3 is as tree reticle as it gets now for me, although I don’t find the NF MIl-XT to awful. But it’s a crutch to me, much like a level. I like an open reticle, mil-c, MSR2, P4f. That’s my jam now.

Yea, I like the skmr
MSR2 looks awesome!
Mil-xt
APLR (Cronus)
2 tenths and a decent tree and I’m GTG

 

[Steel head]

The T3 is more cluttered if you compare them the T3 has a lot more going on and much of it has a fudge factor

I agree

I think the army reticle is fairly foolproof.
I’ve seen lots of mess ups with the T3.

 

[Long Range 338]

Yea, I like the skmr
MSR2 looks awesome!
Mil-xt
APLR (Cronus)
2 tenths and a decent tree and I’m GTG

MSR2 is da bomb