New batch of CCI 450 and several failed

[BBVDD]

I just got in a 1000 new CCI 450 (Small rifle mag)

I have not used magnums before so I fixed 10 bullets to do a ladder text with them.
Out of the 10, 3 failed to fire. Very good dimple but no fire. The seating depth looks fine.

think it’s just a bad batch?

 

[ken4570tc in WY]

Not possible to judge proper seating depth visually!
Use the back end of your caliper to measure a bunch of your primer pocket depths . Write down the deepest pocket depth.
Measure the height of your primers including the protruding anvil. Write down the shortest measurement then subtract .002.
Use the adjusted primer height to subtract from your deepest primer pocket.
The result is the depth that all your primers should be seated into the base of the case.
This ensures positive contact of the anvil with a minimum of .002 compression against the bottom of the primer pocket.
That will make your problem go away.

 

[BBVDD]

I shot 50 other of the same with regular 400 primers and never had a single failure , same lapua brass and same priming tool.
I’ll measure a bunch of each and see what I can find out.
Thanks for the post and help.

 

[supratt96]

I recently had an issue with some CCI 200 primers (large rifle). I had two hang fires and three failures to fire out of 35 rounds. One of the failed to fire rounds fired on second attempt, the other two failed multiple attempts. Definitely not a seating depth issue. This is brass I have loaded several times with the same primers without issue. I've been wanting to retest, but all ranges in my area are closed till further notice.

 

[Can't group Jim]

I had the same problem with them with a Bergara 6.5 Creed and Lapua brass. Switched to Federal Match primers and problem went away.

 

[Stevo86]

I’ve had the same issue with a 25cm, cci450 and alpha brass. although out of 100 last weekend I just had one FTF. But I’ve spoken to several folks who were having this issue.

 

[47guy]

This is why I won’t use 450s

 

[Stevo86]

Yea I know... but I got a case of 5000

 

[47guy]

I do to but will not use them for a match...fire forming and to speed up new barrels

 

[Stevo86]

I don’t shoot matches so it’s more of an annoyance than anything .

 

[47guy]

Oh in that case I’d just use them up...IMHO CCIs QC has gone down hill I get better results with feds.

 

[djarecke]

Same here. I’ve had hang fires and fail to fires on about 5% of their primers recently. I have another shooting buddy with the same issues.

I plan on using Federal 205’s from here on out.

 

[308Gunner]

Me and a friend bought 5000 apiece of the CCI BR2 and I loaded 200 up and the first 100 that I shot I had 34 that did not go off I hit them several times and could not get them to go off. I have sent CCI an email to see if they have had any reports of a bad batch. I have shot at least 25000 BR4 and I can’t remember ever having a fail to fire

 

[47guy]

Me and a friend bought 5000 apiece of the CCI BR2 and I loaded 200 up and the first 100 that I shot I had 34 that did not go off I hit them several times and could not get them to go off. I have sent CCI an email to see if they have had any reports of a bad batch. I have shot at least 25000 BR4 and I can’t remember ever having a fail to fire

Curious to hear what they say.

 

[Reload10]

Are all of these failures coming from.lots with the new style box? The lighter blue box.

 

[47guy]

Are all of these failures coming from.lots with the new style box? The lighter blue box.

mine are the older boxes...i know guys having the same issues with different lots then mine.

 

[Off Duty Ninja]

Had the same issue with my Bergara 6.5cm when loading Lapua brass with CCI 450s. 5 out a 100 or so wouldn't fire even after good looking primer hits.. Never took the time to figure out the actual cause. My guess is the firing pin wasn't hitting hard enough. I since moved on to a Bighorn (Zermatt Arms) Origin and haven't had any issues. I think the 450s have a harder cup and that might be the issue.

 

[BBVDD]

I since moved on to a Bighorn (Zermatt Arms) Origin and haven't had any issues. I think the 450s have a harder cup and that might be the issue.

this was in my Origin action

 

[47guy]

Had the same issue with my Bergara 6.5cm when loading Lapua brass with CCI 450s. 5 out a 100 or so wouldn't fire even after good looking primer hits.. Never took the time to figure out the actual cause. My guess is the firing pin wasn't hitting hard enough. I since moved on to a Bighorn (Zermatt Arms) Origin and haven't had any issues. I think the 450s have a harder cup and that might be the issue.

I know at least 15 guys with same issue it’s not an action problem

 

[Off Duty Ninja]

Interesting shenanigans going on. My current loads are with a newish box of 450s. I was having issues with the light primer strikes over a year ago. No idea what lot numbers.

 

[47guy]

Interesting shenanigans going on. My current loads are with a newish box of 450s. I was having issues with the light primer strikes over a year ago. No idea what lot numbers.

QC is my guess

 

[Shifty6BR]

Wow...I've been using 450 for so many years I can't remember now. I don't have any more lrp cartridges anymore by my own choosing. All the cartridges I load for are srp exclusively 450. Including the 1000's upon 1000's ran thru the 1050 for .223

Never had a single cci 450 primer not go off unless induced by user mechanical error so this is news to me. In between shortages I used 7 5 and Wolf. It was Wolf that gave me a lot of issues delayed ignition and not going off.

Interesting nonetheless.

 

[IanB]

Both myself and a fellow shooter have experienced the 450 problem and also with the 250's. On all three occasions the firing pin spring was replaced and the problem went away. Each spring was at least 1 inch shorter than the new spring.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

QC is my guess

I think it is the ignition system on the bolt guns. Action manufacturers put soft firing pin springs in the actions to eliminate heavy bolt lift complaints. I have shot thousands of 450's out of a 6.5GR AR15 and every one of them went off.

 

[spife7980]

Both myself and a fellow shooter have experienced the 450 problem and also with the 250's. On all three occasions the firing pin spring was replaced and the problem went away. Each spring was at least 1 inch shorter than the new spring.

I wonder if those people left the guns in storage with the firing spring compressed instead of letting the firing pin down and relaxed by holding the trigger when you close the bolt and letting it forward easy.
I have only seen the problem once personally and it was in a browning bar, which isnt a bolt gun but still, and he left the firing pin spring compressed for months between deer season and eventually it wouldnt set off reliably, new spring too and it worked great.

 

[whatsupdoc]

@BBVDD what is the lot number?
Weird as I use thousands of 450's in 5 different rifles and the only issue was with my Nucleus and it was not the primers.

 

[djarecke]

I have used a backup bolt, a second backup bolt and different triggers. I even used the primers in a different cartridge. If numerous bolts were replaced and the issue still occurs, it’s not the ignition system.

Last year I shot over 10,000 rounds and did not have one hang fire or misfire. This year with a newer lot, I’ve had numerous. There was a very good indent on the primer, but it did not ignite. Several hung up like I was shooting a flintlock. When I switched to either a different lot or a different primer, I did not have one single misfire.

I suspect something had changed on CCI’s end. I don’t know what, but it certainly is aggravating. And as I mentioned, I’ve heard of other shooters having this same issue. There was also another thread here on the Hide discussing it several months ago.

 

[918v]

If you have a high round count on your FP spring, replace it and see if that’s it. It’s not that hard or expensive.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Last year I shot over 10,000 rounds and did not have one hang fire or misfire. This year with a newer lot, I’ve had numerous. There was a very good indent on the primer, but it did not ignite. Several hung up like I was shooting a flintlock. When I switched to either a different lot or a different primer, I did not have one single misfire.

Time for you to contact CCI with your bad lot numbers. They can look into it and have a recall or make it right to the shooting community since it sounds like you are not the only one this is happening to.

Winchester had some bad lots of LRP's a few years ago. Caused a lot of torched bolt faces.

 

[BBVDD]

@BBVDD what is the lot number?
Weird as I use thousands of 450's in 5 different rifles and the only issue was with my Nucleus and it was not the primers.

Lot is best I can tell: g22b401

ETA: new lighter blue box

 

[47guy]

I think it is the ignition system on the bolt guns. Action manufacturers put soft firing pin springs in the actions to eliminate heavy bolt lift complaints. I have shot thousands of 450's out of a 6.5GR AR15 and every one of them went off.

it’s not a action problem...all custom actions here not factory.

 

[Stevo86]

Shot another 100 today through my 6cm ( R700) and 25 cm (impact) no issues

 

[918v]

it’s not a action problem...all custom actions here not factory.

So custom actions are immune? From what I see, custom actions seem to share the bulk of ignition problems discussed on this site.

 

[47guy]

So custom actions are immune? From what I see, custom actions seem to share the bulk of ignition problems discussed on this site.

no not at all but it’s not the actions here.....240-.260 firing pin fall and new springs same issue...we have done our checking and again it is not the actions.

and to add to this I would go through a 100 with no FTF next 100 2-3 next 100 5-6.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I just got in a 1000 new CCI 450 (Small rifle mag)

I have not used magnums before so I fixed 10 bullets to do a ladder text with them.
Out of the 10, 3 failed to fire. Very good dimple but no fire. The seating depth looks fine.

think it’s just a bad batch?

The 450 cup is somewhat harder than the 400's. Check your firing pin spring.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

it’s not a action problem...all custom actions here not factory.

Custom actions are the largest source of the problems. It should be no mystery why companies like Prime still use LRP brass. Seriously, you think CCI is having a 30% failure rate? Maybe if you weren't running max effort handloads and nearly no bolt lift resistance you could use primers that would go off reliably and wouldn't blow out. Instead you're here complaining about the net result of CCI's hard small magnum primers.

Every problem I've ever had with CCI primers traced back to weak ignition of the pistol or rifle. If you had a few failures in a thousand then you'd probably have a case for a QC complaint. Not 30%+, that is laughable.

 

[47guy]

Custom actions are the largest source of the problems. It should be no mystery why companies like Prime still use LRP brass. Seriously, you think CCI is having a 30% failure rate? Maybe if you weren't running max effort handloads and nearly no bolt lift resistance you could use primers that would go off reliably and wouldn't blow out. Instead you're here complaining about the net result of CCI's hard small magnum primers.

Every problem I've ever had with CCI primers traced back to weak ignition of the pistol or rifle. If you had a few failures in a thousand then you'd probably have a case for a QC complaint. Not 30%+, that is laughable.

I’m not complaining I made a statement I could give two shits what you think..you come in here running your mouth like your gods gift to the shooting industry and I’ll bet I’ve put more rounds down range this year than you did all of last year...so yeah I’m saying CCI 450s have a 30% failure to fire... maybe instead of running your mouth you should read Allll the other guys having the same issues.

 

[kriller134]

@BBVDD how’s your head space? Did you accidentally bump your shoulders too much? I also had some issues with cci 450s not going off. Switched to fed match and won’t look back.

 

[264win]

As mentioned above, this can be one of the side effects of running actions that are tuned as light as possible, with extra hard primers. CCI likely has had some small variations from lot to lot, but I would bet that these primers will have zero problems when used in the rifles they are made for.

 

[47guy]

As mentioned above, this can be one of the side effects of running actions that are tuned as light as possible, with extra hard primers. CCI likely has had some small variations from lot to lot, but I would bet that these primers will have zero problems when used in the rifles they are made for.

and what rifles would that be?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I’m not complaining I made a statement I could give two shits what you think..you come in here running your mouth like your gods gift to the shooting industry and I’ll bet I’ve put more rounds down range this year than you did all of last year...so yeah I’m saying CCI 450s have a 30% failure to fire... maybe instead of running your mouth you should read Allll the other guys having the same issues.

I don't shoot as much as I'd like but I'm at about 15K rounds of pistol and rifle so far this year. Is that a lot or not a lot? Does shooting a lot mean your reloading practices are squared away? I don't see the correlation.

I shot a thousand CCI 450's out of an AR in two weekends without a single failure yet here are bolt actions with habitual problems. This is a known issue and isn't CCI's problem. Either use Fed205's or heavier a firing pin spring.

 

[BBVDD]

@BBVDD how’s your head space? Did you accidentally bump your shoulders too much? I also had some issues with cci 450s not going off. Switched to fed match and won’t look back.

I’m not going to say no but I doubt it.
if there were problems there would have been issues in the other 50+ rounds I shot with CCI 400.

 

[47guy]

I don't shoot as much as I'd like but I'm at about 15K rounds of pistol and rifle so far this year. Is that a lot or not a lot? Does shooting a lot mean your reloading practices are squared away? I don't see the correlation.

I shot a thousand CCI 450's out of an AR in two weekends without a single failure yet here are bolt actions with habitual problems. This is a known issue and isn't CCI's problem. Either use Fed205's or heavier a firing pin spring.

yeah that’s a lot you got me by 8500.

we could go back and forth all day over this but I will leave it at this...my loading is squared away as is my action...there have been a LOT of complaints about 450s including guys shooting factory rifles so I doubt everyone has a weak spring...and no it’s no where near 30% FTF rate but no matter what it is it is enough for me not to trust them.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Yea at 30% failure this would be all over the shooting world. I had some issues with one of my actions and 450's, it misfired like 30 in a row.
The firing pin spring was replaced and 800 or so 450's later its been 100%.

 

[264win]

and what rifles would that be?

AR15/M16.
But I bet any AI, TRG, FN, etc will also run them 100%

 

[47guy]

AR15/M16.
But I bet any AI, TRG, FN, etc will also run them 100%

gotcha.

 

[LawnMM]

Gone through thousands of 450s and I think out of all the misfires, one was a bad primer. Rest were uncharged cases. Happens more than you'd think.

 

[Shifty6BR]

I've used them over a Surgeon, Rem 700, multiple ar15, buddies using them in a Defiance and another 700 no issues, no ftf.

It is what it is.

 

[Doom]

I just got in a 1000 new CCI 450 (Small rifle mag)

I have not used magnums before so I fixed 10 bullets to do a ladder text with them.
Out of the 10, 3 failed to fire. Very good dimple but no fire. The seating depth looks fine.

think it’s just a bad batch?

No.

I suspect you have a weak firing pin spring. The 450’s have a thicker and harder cup.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

AR15/M16.
But I bet any AI, TRG, FN, etc will also run them 100%

I'll settle the argument now.....I had my first ever FTF a few days ago. Coincidence I just saw this thread pop up. Mine was a 450 as well. Also in Alpha brass. Also been close to 1k of them run through the same gun in the same brass........in an AI AX.