new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

[Michelle Gallagher]

Hi everyone! We are looking for people to test our new 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid OTM Tactical bullets. These bullets have a G1 BC of 0.682, a G7 BC of 0.349, and were designed to shoot in an 12” or faster twist barrel. These bullets are designed to be accurate for target shooting; we will also introduce a 250gr Hunting bullet in the near future. We need people who will be able to complete the testing by March 16th. We are very sorry, but due to shipping and customs restrictions, we will only be able to include people within the continental US on the initial test. We are working on a solution to this, and hope to include everyone in future tests. If you are interested, please send me an email at [email protected] [email protected] with the following information:

-Name, contact and shipping information.
-Type of rifle you will use to test these bullets.
-Type of test you plan to conduct.
-Forum you found this on.

In the past, we limited participation to ten shooters per test. Due to the ever-growing response to these tests, we are going to increase the number we select to roughly one third of the responses. Also, shooters will be limited to one test per year, so we can include as many people as possible. We are looking for a variety of testing methods, so feel free to test them however you would normally test a new component. Those who are selected will be shipped 2 boxes each (100 bullets) of our new 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid OTM Tactical bullets right away. We need you to report your results to us by March 16th. Those who provide their results by then will receive a additional 200 bullets of any Berger Bullets you choose as a Thank-You from us for your time and effort.

We encourage those who are selected to report their findings on this forum for the sake of others who are interested in the results (good or bad), and we will post any results that are not already shown. This testing program will be a regular part of our process, so keep an eye out for other opportunities down the road. Thank you all, and please let us know if you have any questions!

Warm Regards,
Michelle Gallagher

 

[smrkovsky]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Email sent. Thanks for the opportunity.

 

[cega]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Email sent, thanks for the opportunity as well.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Email sent, as well.

Thank you kindly,

Chris

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Thank you--- email sent
Sully

 

[diego-ted]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

E-mail sent, should be fun!!!

Diego

 

[werew]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

email sent, thanks for the consideration!

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michelle Gallagh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi everyone! We are looking for people to test our new 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid OTM Tactical bullets. These bullets have a G1 BC of 0.682, a G7 BC of 0.349, and were designed to shoot in an 12” or faster twist barrel. These bullets are designed to be accurate for target shooting; we will also introduce a 250gr Hunting bullet in the near future. We need people who will be able to complete the testing by March 16th. We are very sorry, but due to shipping and customs restrictions, we will only be able to include people within the continental US on the initial test. We are working on a solution to this, and hope to include everyone in future tests. If you are interested, please send me an email at [email protected] [email protected] with the following information:

-Name, contact and shipping information.
-Type of rifle you will use to test these bullets.
-Type of test you plan to conduct.
-Forum you found this on.

In the past, we limited participation to ten shooters per test. Due to the ever-growing response to these tests, we are going to increase the number we select to roughly one third of the responses. Also, shooters will be limited to one test per year, so we can include as many people as possible. We are looking for a variety of testing methods, so feel free to test them however you would normally test a new component. Those who are selected will be shipped 2 boxes each (100 bullets) of our new 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid OTM Tactical bullets right away. We need you to report your results to us by March 16th. Those who provide their results by then will receive a additional 200 bullets of any Berger Bullets you choose as a Thank-You from us for your time and effort.

We encourage those who are selected to report their findings on this forum for the sake of others who are interested in the results (good or bad), and we will post any results that are not already shown. This testing program will be a regular part of our process, so keep an eye out for other opportunities down the road. Thank you all, and please let us know if you have any questions!

Warm Regards,
Michelle Gallagher </div></div>


Michelle,
Any word on this yet?

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Michelle: I just sent you an email with the informaiton you requested.

Jim G

 

[bcrich]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Email sent

 

[diego-ted]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I have not heard back???

Diego

 

[SVG308]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Email sent. Thanks!

 

[longshot1911]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Im in! Sounds like an excellent approach to market research

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Just conversed with Michelle yesterday via email and she stated that she was just giving folks enough time to submit. She stated that she would be sendind out emails to those that would be selected within the next few days.
HTH
Sully

 

[bm11]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Email sent, hopefully not too late!

 

[diego-ted]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

UPS brought mine in today, only got 100 total, 2 boxes of 50?? I am going to load up a bunch with 87gr of H-1000 set 20thou of the lands and see what happens at 1K yards, 1139 yards and a mile. Savage BA 110. I will run the test side by side with the same load and SMK 300gr. I wish I had some SMK 250gr but oh well, it's what I got. They need the results so quickly this is the best I can do for now.

Diego

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diego-ted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">UPS brought mine in today, only got 100 total, 2 boxes of 50?? I am going to load up a bunch with 87gr of H-1000 set 20thou of the lands and see what happens at 1K yards, 1139 yards and a mile. Savage BA 110. I will run the test side by side with the same load and SMK 300gr. I wish I had some SMK 250gr but oh well, it's what I got. They need the results so quickly this is the best I can do for now.

Diego</div></div>
Ted,
Haven't got mine yet but yes only (2) boxes (100 bullets)were to be sent to each tester. After your tests if you read above you will be sent more for your help doing the test. I will be testing against my 250SMK/4831SC load and if I get to them campare against my H1000/300gr Scenar. Time frame/weather will be a close call.
Sully

 

[diego-ted]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I got the 1st batch loaded up and ready to go, will test them out this Saturday.

Diego

 

[bcrich]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I got um yesterday, also got about 50 loaded up from 88 to 91 grains of H1000 and will also be testing them at 1k as soon as I can make some time. I need to find the best grouping load then shoot them at distance.

 

[Michelle Gallagher]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Thank you all for being so willing to help us test these bullets! It sounds like the testers have started receiving their bullets, so we should start getting results in the next week or two. I'll be sure to post any results that aren't already online. If the tests are successful, these bullets should be available for purchase by the first part of April.
Thanks,
Michelle

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Thanks Michelle, Just recieved mine this afternoon. Been gathering some info and taking some measurements.

250 Bergers +/- .1gr on weight out of 100
250 Sierra's +/-.1 gr on weight out of 100

250 Bergers: Ogive to base 100 +/- .0015" !!!
250 Sierra: Ogive to base 100 +/- .004 and as much as.010"

Now we will work up some loads and see how they shoot
Sully

 

[werew]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Just received mine in the mail tonight. Quick comparison to the 250SMK's and i'm identical to 402's results.

By naked eye, the bearing surface on these Berger 250's is just under 1/8" shorter than the 250SMK's, should yield higher velocities than the 250SMK. I've tested 3 loads using the 250SMK's, max velocity so far 3098fps, no pressure signs and i'm nowhere close to the max recommended charge.

This is how I plan on making the 100 bullets give me the best results.
1.Pressure over chrono for ladder/node(8-10 rounds).
2.Fine Tune the node over chrono, 3 diff loads, 5 each (15 rounds).
3.Accuracy @ various distances out to 1500yard hits.
4.Foul after cleaning every 30 or so shots along with errors (?#?) along with goofing off/prairie dogs and coyotes

The fun part is when Murphy's Law shows up, usually around tests 1&2. Weather is going to make it interesting.

Michelle, should we post our results here in this thread or make a new thread?

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Has anyone got a chance to get out and test any loads yet?
Sully

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone got a chance to get out and test any loads yet?
Sully </div></div>

I got mine on Tuesday, so a bit late to the game. I hope to load them up and make two trips early next week.

I'm honestly not going to make it to the longer range by Tampa, before the 19th when 'impressions' are needed, so it'll just be short stuff for me.

TRG-42, FWIW.

.349 G7 & .682 G1, stamped on the box, if that's not a secret...lol.

Chris

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I laoded up 50 rounds the other evening, in preparation for this weekend (hope the weather man was wrong - high in the 50s AND 80% chance of rain for Saturday!

). I did run into an issue that others might want to know about in advance, since otherwise you would erroneously conclude that the bullet variance is higher than it really is.

First, at least on my TRG, my Stoney Point gage "appeared" to tell me that to touch the lands, I would need to load to 3.880" COAL. Of course, the magazine only accepts up to 3.730", since the standard for 338 lapua is something like 3.65", and I do insist on a round being magazine feedable. This means my jump to the lands would be something like .150" ! I realzie this hybrid bulelt is particularly tolerant of jump per Berger's provided information, but hmm, that's a LOT of jump, I thought.

Undeterred, I set up the press and die for 3.726" ( a bit of tolerance is nice to prevent magazine binding), and checked the first couple of rounds. Found they were inconsistent in base-to-ogive measurement, but more consistent than tpyical on COAL. Strange. So, I looked closer.

I discovered that the loooong thin shape of this bullet's tip is long enough to actually "bottom out' in the Stoney Point insert holder, that holds the ogive insert, when mounted on digital calipers! The isnert holder's recess is simply too short. So, the distance from the case base to the loaded bullet tips, rather than to the bullet ogives, were being measured!

This also meant that my entire process of using the Stoney Point OAL gage in the rifle was also wasted, since the gage on the caliper made measuring the resulting base-to-ogive accurately impossible.

I hadn't run into this before. I guess I'll need to find a different ogive measuring tool . . .

In the meantime, I loaded up the 50 rounds simply ensuring that the longest ones were under the 3.730" magazine maximum. The overall variance was pretty modest.

As for powder, the Hodgdon manual says that for a 250g bullet, the starting loadd for Retumbo is 90.0 grians and the maximum is 98.og and that is a compressed load. I favor moderate loadings for best accuracy, so loaded up my cartridges in the 91.0 to 95.0 range for the ladder and grouping testing I still hope to do this weekend.

My TRG with same powder (87.0g), primers (215M), and Lapua cases, using 300g Sierra Matchkings, shoots 5/16" to 1/2" groups now whenever I do MY part. It'll be interesting to see how these Bergers work.

Jim G

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Jim,
That's interseting about your comparitor. When I checked my throat with this bullet I checked both from the ogive and OAL. I load from a CIP mag (3.850")as well in my 110BA. I figure after loading up some dummies that I will need to load @ 3.857" OAL to take the meplat /mag drag out of play meaning it will have to jump .163" which is a tremendous amount IMO. I will double check my comparitor this evening, as might be the reason my initial measurements were so tight on ogive to base. If this is true the I see no other way to measure than OAL with the tools I have on hand right now. I notice that on Bergers site that Redding is offering a special insert for their seating dies for this bullet as well.
Thanks for the info
Sully

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim,
If this is true the I see no other way to measure than OAL with the tools I have on hand right now. I notice that on Bergers site that Redding is offering a special insert for their seating dies for this bullet as well.
Thanks for the info
Sully </div></div>

That special Redding seater makes sense. If the Sotney Point gage has a problem, then it is likely the seater die does too. I might not have detected it because my specific seating die insert might by chance be "just" long enough, but another one might not. Or, maybe it's just long enough for some or most of the berger 250 bulelts, but not all of them, as they DO vary a bit I'm sure, just as any other quality HP bullet does, on base to tip dimensions.

If this bulelt auditions well, I'll need to look into both a new seating insert and a new case-base-to-ogive. To justify that, it'd betetr do well when I get it out to the range hopefully yet this weekend.

Jim G

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Well I used my Stoney Point gauge and checked OAL and from the ogive. My comparitor depth has .001" extra clearance(but that will not be true for each bullet as you stated they vary as does the meplats). My seater bushing is close on the bullet I checked as well .001" clearance. I have a XL holder, and a seating bushing comming from Sinclair and will have them Wednesday. I will load 20 tonight with my favorite 4831SC and N560 and will go off OAL just to do a quick test and see how they fly and follow up next week after I have the correct tools.
Sully

 

[pmarauder]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Hey Guys.... get rid of those stoney point inserts and go with the Sinclair all steel comparator inserts. They are tapered to match the bullet profile and the bullet indexes perfectly every time.... unlike the stoney point inserts which can give erroneous reading on the first measurement. I too ran into the mag problem... Here is what Michelle told me. (TRG-42)

Thanks for the email. I forwarded your message to Bryan, and he told me this morning that in that particular rifle, he's had good results seating both the 250 and 300 gr bullets to the max magazine length. I hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions, and I'll try to find the answers for you. Have a great day, and enjoy your weekend!

Thanks,
Michelle


I did shoot one 4 shot group at 200 yards with all 4 shots were in the same hole more or less.... but that was with a .006 jump.... Looks like i will have to jump them .160 or so on the next trip to the range...

Good luck.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Sinclair Int'l makes an extra long comparator body (p/n 09-1050 XL Comparator/Bump Gage Body) - I believe it was intended for checking headspace on loaded rounds - that is considerably longer than the regular ones. Sounds like just what you need.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sinclair Int'l makes an extra long comparator body (p/n 09-1050 XL Comparator/Bump Gage Body) - I believe it was intended for checking headspace on loaded rounds - that is considerably longer than the regular ones. Sounds like just what you need. </div></div>

Thanks! I just ordered it.

Jim G

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Well I took some these 250gr Hybrids out today and tested them. Below is the load I came up with and it shot really well.

Rifle - Savage 110BA 1:9 twist 26" barrel Suppressed 338P TBAC
Brass - Lapua (3) cylces, Annealed, weigh sorted within 1 grain
F/L sized, trimmed to 2.714"
Primmer - FGMM 215M
Bullet - Berger 250gr Hybrid OTM
Powder - N560 88.4gr
OAL - 3.900" .030" off the lands.
Velosity - 2900fps (excuse the goof on one)
Conditions - 58 degrees, DA 5850, humidity 12% wind is stated on
target.
I tested this load on 3/4/12 and it shot fine @ 100yd with an acceptable ES/SD

So I decided to test the same load today @ 200yd,It shot fine as well and chronoed the same with good ES/SD

And then took it out to 300, again shot good (at least to me) with good ES/SD and chrono was 2900.

I tried H4831SC and it shot well just not as good as the N560 (sad to say for cost reasons)
I also loaded these up .075" off the lands and the groups opened up (.8MOA) and they got even worst when I tried to load to mag length for my CIP mag, (1.25MOA) .164" jump!
I will say they do shot very well and I will tinker around some more but from my initial testing of 30 test loads they are better than the original Hybrids in regards to jump. I'll report back when I get to take this load out further but I hope I can get them to shot out of my mag because that's what I'm looking for with this BC. I might try some H1000 and see how it works. I look forward to seeing and reading more reports so that I might learn some more.
Sully

 

[TacBlade]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I put in a request for some of these and never got a response or anything?

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I took some these 250gr Hybrids out today and tested them. Below is the load I came up with and it shot really well.

Rifle - Savage 110BA 1:9 twist 26" barrel Suppressed 338P TBAC
Brass - Lapua (3) cylces, Annealed, weigh sorted within 1 grain
F/L sized, trimmed to 2.714"
Primmer - FGMM 215M
Bullet - Berger 250gr Hybrid OTM
Powder - N560 88.4gr
OAL - 3.900" .030" off the lands.
Velosity - 2900fps (excuse the goof on one)
Conditions - 58 degrees, DA 5850, humidity 12% wind is stated on
target.
I tested this load on <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">10/4/12</span></span> and it shot fine @ 100yd with an acceptable ES/SD

So I decided to test the same load today @ 200yd,It shot fine as well and chronoed the same with good ES/SD

And then took it out to 300, again shot good (at least to me) with good ES/SD and chrono was 2900.

I tried H4831SC and it shot well just not as good as the N560 (sad to say for cost reasons)
I also loaded these up .075" off the lands and the groups opened up (.8MOA) and they got even worst when I tried to load to mag length for my CIP mag, (1.25MOA) .164" jump!
I will say they do shot very well and I will tinker around some more but from my initial testing of 30 test loads they are better than the original Hybrids in regards to jump. I'll report back when I get to take this load out further but I hope I can get them to shot out of my mag because that's what I'm looking for with this BC. I might try some H1000 and see how it works. I look forward to seeing and reading more reports so that I might learn some more.
Sully
</div></div>


Wow my PC is now a time machine looking into the future nearly 7 months (See above the first pic in red). LOL

Nice shooting.

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Sorry for the mistake,I corrected it. I was tired when I was posting last night.
Sully

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

No big deal, just got a chuckle out of it. I have typos all the time.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I had a chance to get out to the range yesterday (the weather cleared - finally!), and these bullest do shoot.

I'll need a day or 2 to analyze the results, including chronograph readings, but in the meantime, anyone looking for a starting point for testing, my TRG really liked the range = 92.0 to 94.0 grains of Retumbo, with COAL 3.7290". I don't know the case base to ogive measurment, because as explained above, the long nose of this bullet hit the inside end of the comparator. But this 92 to 94 grain range worked great.

In addition, I only got 4 good chronogrpah readings on the 92.0 grian load, but they showed as 2741, 2746, 2746, and 2744 ! Talk about consistent!

The 94.0 grain load showed 2820 on the first round, but then the chronograph refused to cooperate any further. But if true, that's 4400 ft lb of energy coupled with a Cd = .68, and only 94.0g of powder. Nice combination. The 94.0 grain loads were not quite as good as the 93.0 grain.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I did some quick analysis. INTERESTING results.

First, look at chronogpraphed velocity:
Rifle: TRG Model 42 338 Lapua with 27 inch barrel
Case: Lapua
Primer: Federal 215M
Bullet: Berger 250g "new" Hybrid
Powder: Retumbo, 91.0g to 95.0g range

My CED M@ chrono has fits with 338 Lapua, raecting to muzzle blast even after I add 6 foot "extension cables" to the 20 foot cables factory-hardwired to the sensors. But, based on the number of shots it DID manage to record 9shown in brackets after each velocity below), powder grains versus muzzle velocity is NOWHERE near "linear":

Grains / fps / (no. of successful fps readings):

91.0 / 2684 / (4) (note: Lowest was 2646, highest was 2710)

92.0 / 2744 / (4) (note: lowest was 2741, highest was 2746 !)

93.0 / 2781 / (3) (note: 2792, 2772, 2778 so ES = 20)

94.0 / 2820 / (1) (Chrono stopped reading altogether after 1 shot)

95.0 / 2849 / (3) (2850, 2848, 2848. Wow! But, groups not as good as 92.0 to 94.0 grains depsite that)

So . . .

Gain from 91.0 to 92.0 grains = 60 fps
Gain from 92.0 to 93.0 grains = 37 fps
Gain from 93.0 to 94.0 grains = 39 fps
Gain from 94.0 to 95.0 grains = 29 fps

Note that the best accuracy, consistently, was for 92.0, 93.0 and 94.0 grains, with 93.0 being the best of the 3, with the limited number of rounds fired (50 total) and my lack of skill (some groups were clearly shooter error).

Best velocity-for-the-buck was 92.0 grains, where you pick up 60 fps by adding 1 grain of powder.


Long range performance:

I plugged the values for the 250g 93.0 grain 2781 fps laod into the "Shooter" app on the iPhone, and compared to the 300g Sierra Matchking load that I have already optimized at 2573 fps:

Load / elev adj at 1000 yds / wind adj at 1000 yds & 5.8 mpg wind / Energy at 1000 yds

300g Sierra / 30.5 MOA / 3.2 MOA / 1643 ft lb

250g berger / 25.5 MOA / 2.9 MOA / 1645 ft lb

So, out of my TRG, this 250g Berger bullet requires smaller elevation and windage adjsutments to go to 1000 yards, because depsite its lower Cd, it moves at 208 fps faster out of my TRG, at the most accurate load setup.

Note also that the energy, a pretty good measure of stopping power, is identical at 1000 yards.

At more moderate ranges, the energy is also still pretty equivalent, with the 300g Sierra having just a tiny (1 to 2%) edge:

Load / energy at 100 yds / energy at 500 yds

250g Berger / 3931 / 2720

300g Sierra / 4027 / 2754

The accuracy I get with the Bergers is about equivalent to what I get with the Sierra 300g, and the recoil is similar but I actually feel it more with the Bergers (make sense since more powder being burned, therefore more energy being burned, despite the similar NET energy of the 2 bullets - more muzzle blast produced with the 250g).

I'm tempted to try more testing on this 250g Berger Hybrid - well beyond the paltry 100 rounds Beregr sent me so far. After all, I got these results after only 50 rounds loaded and fired so far, and with chronograph issues that wasted some of them. And I REALLY want to explore further that ES on the 92.0 grain load. It is possible that the shooter is the limtiing factor on accuracy here!

But, for long term use, based on street pricing for existing Berger bullets and Sierra bullets, it would likely cost me way more than the $.55 I am paying for the Sierra 300 g Matchkings, so I need to see what I could get them for. if I coudl get them at an acceptable street price, I;d really like to see what I could do with them given more time and more bullets.

Jim G

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Jim,
How did that 92gr load group @ 100? I take it that you shot all of these at mag length? The numbers on your Retumbo not being linear sound very familiar for that powder. Have you compared the bergers to the 250gr SMK's or just the 300's. My fps dropped considerable when I seated deeper, so I was just wondering if you observed the same.
Sully

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim,
How did that 92gr load group @ 100? I take it that you shot all of these at mag length? The numbers on your Retumbo not being linear sound very familiar for that powder. Have you compared the bergers to the 250gr SMK's or just the 300's. My fps dropped considerable when I seated deeper, so I was just wondering if you observed the same.
Sully </div></div>

I could do only 3-shot groups, because of the limited number of rounds available.

The 91.0 g load woudl not group well at all. Sometimes good (2 rounds on top fo eahc other) but one shot way out (like almost an inch).

The 92.0 g load fired 7/16" 3-shot groups.

The 93.0 g load fired one 5/16" group and the remainder were close - just a bit better than the average 92.0g group.

The 94.0 g load fired 7/16" groups.

The 95.0 g load was not consistent. Some decent, but never as good as the 92 to 94, and some bad.

Yes, I insist on mag length loads. That means 3.729" or shorter, so I set my seating die so that I stay under 3.729" depsite any bullet variances.

I have not tried 250g Sierras, as I view the Cd as too unfavorable for long ranges.

I did not have enough bullets to use them up on triyng different jump distances. I want to do that, but would need a lot more bullets from berger to enable that. I wish I had about 500 of them now that I see the potential in them.

Jim G

 

[cega]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Had a chance to test the new Bergers as well. I am under a huge last minute deadline at work so with limited time to test I decided to at least get out and see how they would perform with a a proven accurate load that has worked well with both 250gr Scenars as well as 250gr SMKs. This load has for all practical purposes always shot under .5 MOA barring any stupidity on my part and has been very consistent between the Scenars and the SMKs.

Load used is as below:

Case: 1x Lapua
Powder: VV N170 @ 93.9gr
Primer: CCI #250
COAL: 3.679

Barrel: Bartlein 9.3 twist @ 27"

Temps were in the low to mid-50s, slight breeze. Due to being short on time I did not grab the Kestrel or chrono but will try to get out before Friday with more time.

Warmed myself up with the 308 and then switched to the 338 and ran a five shot group to get the barrel, and me, in the mood using the load above topped with 250gr SMKs.

Switched over to the first 5 of the new Bergers, loaded to the same spec as the SMKs. I did not perceive any difference in felt recoil. Rounds were hitting roughly .2 higher than the 250gr SMKs at 200yds. Reloaded and ran another five and saw consistent results when compared to the first 5 rounds. In all I ran a total of 20 rounds of the new Berger and found that they were incredibly consistent in printing basically .1 to .2 higher when compared to the 250gr SMK rounds. Groups were all right around

My initial impressions so far, limited as they are, is that the new Berger is looking pretty good for me in this rifle, especially with how consistent that they seemed to be and how relatively interchangeable they might be with either SMKs or Scenars as long as I made appropriate adjustments based on the seen trajectories. Obviously I would need to really work up a load specific to this bullet but at least I have what seems to be a pretty solid starting point.

Will be trying to get these new Bergers out to 1k later this week or weekend using the above load as well as working around that load in .3gr increments.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Lapua 250gr Scenar on the left, Berger 250gr Hybrid in the middle and finally, the 250gr SMK on the right. No flash/flash.

I'm going to go tomorrow--Tuesday and perhaps Thursday, but it will only be 100 yds, so nothing that spectacular. I did manage to go through box #1 and take some measurements for all 50 of the bullets--bullet length, bullet ogive and weight. I'll save that data for my write up over the weekend, as Berger wants to hear back, by 3/19.

Chris

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

I know it's only a little thing but take a close look at the meplats on all 3, the Scenars are by far the best and you will find that with all their bullets. When I called Sierra years ago and asked them why they couldn't do a better job in this area they told me "that's the way we make them, take it or leave it". If Lapua can do it the other should be able to do it. I will say that your Sierra and Berger meplats look an heck allot better than the ones I have. I measure off the ogive anyway but...
Sully

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'll save that data for my write up over the weekend, as Berger wants to hear back, by 3/19.

Chris

</div></div>

Chris: I thought Berger wanted the data by 3-16, not 3-19, to get the additional 200 bullets. I could be wrong.

Jim G

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

Just recieved my XL comparitor holder and my bushing for my seater die from Sinclair to check and seat these bergers correctly.
Sully

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know it's only a little thing but take a close look at the meplats on all 3, the Scenars are by far the best and you will find that with all their bullets. When I called Sierra years ago and asked them why they couldn't do a better job in this area they told me "that's the way we make them, take it or leave it". If Lapua can do it the other should be able to do it. I will say that your Sierra and Berger meplats look an heck allot better than the ones I have. I measure off the ogive anyway but...
Sully </div></div>

You stole my thunder.

Yeah, the Berger's are almost as 'Matterhorned' as the SMKs and there are a good 25 out of the box of 50, that exhibit a peak on one side, or the other.

You talk to VictorTN and he'll tell you that most of the imperfections in bullet making occur in the top third of the bullet, so while not too pretty, that's why they make trimming and pointing dies, lol.

I could go on with my measurements of the 50 that I miced, but suffice it to say, the Berger 250s are pretty close and very close in the important 'ogive' and 'weight' measurements.

They are all over the map in total length, but that brings us back to the meplats and their peaks--not all that important in the overall scheme of things.

I would agree that the Scenars have very nice and consistent noses on them.

Chris

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'll save that data for my write up over the weekend, as Berger wants to hear back, by 3/19.

Chris

</div></div>

Chris: I thought Berger wanted the data by 3-16, not 3-19, to get the additional 200 bullets. I could be wrong.

Jim G </div></div>

My email from Melesia just states 3/19 and no mention of any extra 200 bullets if submitted by 3/16.

I'll have my stuff done by then, so we'll see!

Chris

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

In the original post Melesia stated 3/16/12 but when I got my email from her it stated the 19th. Also it tells you to post your results on this thread. I posted mine above and also emailed the same to her.
The XL holder from Sinclair is VERY long (i guess for those that single feed) and they didn't even send athe 8/32 set screw with it! CHEAP. I compared my ogive lengths with the new holder and they matched (wasted $15). As I stated earlier my Hornady holder is about .001-.00125" deeper by the time the ogive bottoms out on the comparitor. The bushing I got from Redding for my seater die works great and fits the profile of these bullets like a glove.
Sully

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the original post Melesia stated 3/16/12 but when I got my email from her it stated the 19th. Also it tells you to post your results on this thread. I posted mine above and also emailed the same to her.
The XL holder from Sinclair is VERY long (i guess for those that single feed) and they didn't even send athe 8/32 set screw with it! CHEAP. I compared my ogive lengths with the new holder and they matched (wasted $15). As I stated earlier my Hornady holder is about .001-.00125" deeper by the time the ogive bottoms out on the comparitor. The bushing I got from Redding for my seater die works great and fits the profile of these bullets like a glove.
Sully </div></div>

I've got an older Stoney Point holder, two actually and that wasn't a problem for me.

The problem is with my Forster Micro Seating 'plug' being way, way too wide for these sharp nosed bullets. The bullet points were hitting the top of the plug and the plug walls were nowhere near the bullets' jackets.

My OAL (ogive) was drifting from xx.010"-xx.022" using my comparator, so I've gotta figure that a new plug is in order, to offset any 'wobble' on the upstroke (seating) and to be more consistent in applying force in the area below the 'nose proper' where the bullets are just more consistent in 'width'.

These bullets are like building the SR-71 out of titanium...people just needed to create a whole new class of tools to get the job done.

I may pull apart my Hornady seater, which I used in the beginning and see how that fares, but I'm not holding my breath.

Chris

 

[bas402]

Re: new Berger 338 cal 250 gr Hybrid - testers needed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 402</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the original post Melesia stated 3/16/12 but when I got my email from her it stated the 19th. Also it tells you to post your results on this thread. I posted mine above and also emailed the same to her.
The XL holder from Sinclair is VERY long (i guess for those that single feed) and they didn't even send athe 8/32 set screw with it! CHEAP. I compared my ogive lengths with the new holder and they matched (wasted $15). As I stated earlier my Hornady holder is about .001-.00125" deeper by the time the ogive bottoms out on the comparitor. The bushing I got from Redding for my seater die works great and fits the profile of these bullets like a glove.
Sully </div></div>

I've got an older Stoney Point holder, two actually and that wasn't a problem for me.

The problem is with my Forster Micro Seating 'plug' being way, way too wide for these sharp nosed bullets. The bullet points were hitting the top of the plug and the plug walls were nowhere near the bullets' jackets.

My OAL (ogive) was drifting from xx.010"-xx.022" using my comparator, so I've gotta figure that a new plug is in order, to offset any 'wobble' on the upstroke (seating) and to be more consistent in applying force in the area below the 'nose proper' where the bullets are just more consistent in 'width'.

These bullets are like building the SR-71 out of titanium...people just needed to create a whole new class of tools to get the job done.

I may pull apart my Hornady seater, which I used in the beginning and see how that fares, but I'm not holding my breath.

Chris </div></div>

My Redding seating bushing (plug) fit ok but had a very slight wobble (not bad). While scanning Berger's site I read that Redding made special seating plugs just for the VLD's and these Hybrids for people shooting these things and experiencing this very problem, heck even listed part#'s but weren't for my Redding comp dies. Called Redding, yep they knew just what I needed and sent me the one I got today... PERFECT!
I'm loading up my last 25 bullets tonight (like you I wish I hade more) using Q/L and OBT/barrel length and see what I can come up with. I just have to find a way to get these to shoot acceptable from my mag. To much to do and not enough bullets!!
Sully