New Berger 375 bullet 410 hybrid

[Sleepertruckguy]

Berger just announced a new cup and core bullet. Looks like a good alternative to the 390 Atip.

375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target Rifle Bullet

Rugged construction to survive extreme performance conditions. Unprecedented concentricity: less than .0003” runout using J4 Jackets. Hybrid ogive for tunes easy tuning and load development. Doppler verified - less than 1% B.C. variation! 375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target

bergerbullets.com

 

[Rocketmandb]

FFS - I see more load development in my future.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I would try some but with a 1-7.5 Twist barrel I don't think the jacket would survive. Would be great in a 1-10 Twist.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

I would try some but with a 1-7.5 Twist barrel I don't think the jacket would survive. Would be great in a 1-10 Twist.

One of the first things we did was make sure they would work in the current generation of ELR Rifles. We tested them at 3300 FPS out of a 1:7 and the bullets showed no degradation of BC or precision. They will work just fine in your rifle.

 

[GIXXER2000]

Wow that is great to hear.. Thank you for the information I will look to pick some.

 

[BCX]

Has anyone done any testing yet?

 

[Rocketmandb]

Has anyone done any testing yet?

I haven't seen them yet - they don't seem to have shipped.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

The bullet is in production. Should be on the shelf July ish. But they are being made right now. Possibly earlier though. The initial run will likely be sold out in hours.

 

[bulletbluesky]

Berger just announced a new cup and core bullet. Looks like a good alternative to the 390 Atip.

375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target Rifle Bullet

Rugged construction to survive extreme performance conditions. Unprecedented concentricity: less than .0003” runout using J4 Jackets. Hybrid ogive for tunes easy tuning and load development. Doppler verified - less than 1% B.C. variation! 375 Caliber 410 Grain Hybrid Target

bergerbullets.com

Very impressive specs.
However, just noticed on that page the following (unhappy) formulation of benefits of BTs:

Don't say hop! until you jumped!

 

[secondofangle2]

Heavier than ATIP with lower BC. Same price

These will appeal most to the guys who insist on yellow boxes

 

[Im2bent]

Heavier than ATIP with lower BC. Same price

These will appeal most to the guys who insist on yellow boxes

How is consistency of the Atips and are they ok with fast twist rates?

 

[secondofangle2]

I have shot them in 10 and 12 twists and they shoot lights out. I don't think I'd go faster than 9. So not a good bullet to transition to if you're shooting long heavy solids in a 7 or 8 twist right now

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

How is consistency of the Atips and are they ok with fast twist rates?

In our testing, from 0 - 1800 yards.

• The A-Tips have about a 3% shot to shot variation on BC.
• The Sierra 350gr have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.
• The Lead Core Berger's have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.
• The Solid Berger's have about a 0.6% shot to shot BC Variation.
• The Cutting Edge Gen 2 Lazer also have around a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.

This data is from me scouring the hundreds of PDMs we have developed over the years.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Heavier than ATIP with lower BC. Same price

These will appeal most to the guys who insist on yellow boxes

Based on the performance inconsistency of the A-tips. The probability of hit on a standard shooter goes from 50% first round at 1 mile to 31% just with the BC Variation of the A-Tips alone. (Target is a 20" round gong at 1 Mile). That is given ANY of the above mentioned Sierra, Berger, or Cutting Edge bullets. You are cutting your chances of a 1st round hit in half simply by using a bullet with a 3% BC variation bullet to bullet. That probably means a lot, to a lot of shooters.

 

[secondofangle2]

"It's hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

 

[232593]

Anyone tested any of them yet with H50BMG, RL50, or 24N41?

 

[NightStash]

In our testing, from 0 - 1800 yards.

• The A-Tips have about a 3% shot to shot variation on BC.
• The Sierra 350gr have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.
• The Lead Core Berger's have a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.
• The Solid Berger's have about a 0.6% shot to shot BC Variation.
• The Cutting Edge Gen 2 Lazer also have around a 0.5% shot to shot BC Variation.

This data is from me scouring the hundreds of PDMs we have developed over the years.

Weird our "3% variation" A-Tips keep winning

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Weird our "3% variation" A-Tips keep winning

I don't really care what bullets people use, I simply share data. But I would love to see links to all these national records/titles they are taking over? Let me know when they catch up to the 20+ National Titles and WRs still held by companies like Sierra and others.

 

[Taylorbok]

Has anyone shot these bullets yet?

 

[NightStash]

I don't really care what bullets people use, I simply share data. But I would love to see links to all these national records/titles they are taking over? Let me know when they catch up to the 20+ National Titles and WRs still held by companies like Sierra and others.

The data was in reference to these large caliber 375 bullets as was my response. Show me the last ELR match won with either bullet.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

The data was in reference to these large caliber 375 bullets as was my response. Show me the last ELR match won with either bullet.

Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

 

[Taylorbok]

Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Id bet more ELR matches have been won with A-tips vs Bergers. That being said the Berger Solids were basically unobtanium for a long time, maybe this new bullet will sway the crowds but I've still not heard from anyone who's shot it

 

[NightStash]

Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Again this was in reference to your "data" about the 375 bullets. So the last win was in 2017 Ko2M before the A-Tips were even available? Seems strange if they are that superior...

 

[Im2bent]

Again this was in reference to your "data" about the 375 bullets. So the last win was in 2017 Ko2M before the A-Tips were even available? Seems strange if they are that superior...

Pretty sure no one is going to force you to use them.

 

[NightStash]

Pretty sure no one is going to force you to use them.

Correct and if they were actually 50% better more people probably would....

 

[secondofangle2]

The bullet is in production. Should be on the shelf July ish. But they are being made right now. Possibly earlier though. The initial run will likely be sold out in hours.

It’s August 1. Have any been produced yet?

 

[Schw15]

Weird our "3% variation" A-Tips keep winning

What bc do you guys run on the a-tips?

 

[secondofangle2]

Mine fly like the advertised g7 about .495

The CDCs on AB all are around .47-.48

 

[NightStash]

What bc do you guys run on the a-tips?

We have ave only ever ran a CDM.

 

[Schw15]

Berger Bullets have won WLSC, Nightforce ELR, and KO2M plus have done well in European ELR. Including being the first to hit 2 miles in a competition.

Any new news on the release date of the new bullet?

 

[secondofangle2]

It will be ready right about the time the ingenuity precision trickler is released

 

[Tyler Kemp]

I for one am excited to see if these expand. Because something is wrong in my brain.

 

[ReturnFire]

Has anyone shot these yet?

 

[ReturnFire]

I’m trying to decide if I should sell the 400 CEB’s that I have and commit to the lead core Berger’s or stick with the solids and learn the intricacies of shooting those

 

[secondofangle2]

Abandon the solids

But try the beegers first

 

[Taylorbok]

I’m trying to decide if I should sell the 400 CEB’s that I have and commit to the lead core Berger’s or stick with the solids and learn the intricacies of shooting those

I'd never shoot CEB's especially the 400 Lazers. You can send them to me for proper disposal.

 

[BCX]

Any word on the next production run of the 410s?

 

[ReturnFire]

I was able to find some in stock so I’ll be trying them out at the end of the month

 

[Asgard1]

If the .375 bergers are as good as the 6mm 7mm .308 it will be very secessful. Have yet so see a hornady shoot as consistant as berger does in f class . A-tips may currently be doing OK in sports like elr. But still fall short when compaired to CEB in heavy and burgers in light class.

 

[NightStash]

If the .375 bergers are as good as the 6mm 7mm .308 it will be very secessful. Have yet so see a hornady shoot as consistant as berger does in f class . A-tips may currently be doing OK in sports like elr. But still fall short when compaired to CEB in heavy and burgers in light class.

What do you mean by the A-Tips fall short of CEB? Do you mean leading the biggest ELR series by a large amount? I get messages after every match where guys watch A-tips perform looking to switch.

 

[Asgard1]

What do you mean by the A-Tips fall short of CEB? Do you mean leading the biggest ELR series by a large amount? I get messages after every match where guys watch A-tips perform looking to switch.

In the past 5 years in the United States how many elr matches did hornady win compaired to Ceb .

 

[NightStash]

They haven't even been available for five years lol. There is nothing wrong with CEB and they worked well for us also. There is major benefits to A-Tips though which is why we shoot them and many are now seeing making the switch.

 

[Asgard1]

I am guessing a larger splash is more beneficial then having narrower vertical shot string.

 

[bulletbluesky]

Will they publish CDM in subsonic region (0.6-0.99 Mach) for this bullet?
In the case they tested it; ultra long range shooters would like to have it

 

[NightStash]

I am guessing a larger splash is more beneficial then having narrower vertical shot string.

Keep believing that, we will keep winning.

 

[bulletbluesky]

Perhaps A-tips have lower limit of deformation than the others in comparative tests? If the tests of BC consistency were conducted close to max allowed loads and higher twist rates than necessary, that might explain 3% variance. Just a thought

 

[Asgard1]

Bcsd is a variance from shot to shot so that's not the cause. It's generally somthing like ware, eroation, fire cracking or just inconsistency in bullet manufactoring

 

[bulletbluesky]

Bcsd is a variance from shot to shot so that's not the cause. It's generally somthing like ware, eroation, fire cracking or just inconsistency in bullet manufactoring

Well, from shot to shot they could be differently deformed. Inconsistency in manufacturing could be another explanation. I wouldn't know because I never used A-tips (or anything else in .375 caliber)

 

[LakuNoc]

Any word on 410 Berger LR?

 

[ReturnFire]

I ordered two boxes a couple months ago but their inventory was incorrect and they are OOS. I emailed Berger two weeks ago and they stated they aren’t on the production schedule yet