So I have not bow hunted since I was 12 years old. Picking it back up and I have been training with a trigger release. I have major target panic. Stacking arrows and then pull one like 6’ off target. I am going to a thumb release. Got to break my rifle habits. Advice from any bow hunters? I’m not afraid of spending some cash, but I don’t want to waste ammo money if it does not help. I’m not going to hunt with a bow until next year, so I’m willing to spend some time learning a new technique.
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Hunting & Fishing New bow hunter help
- Thread starter Slab74
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Try a site called archerytalk.com. well I'm sure there's plenty of people with an archery background you'll find more direct and detailed answers at that site.
First thing I would do is save your money and not buy anything new. You're not going to get any significant technology from a New Year bow to something that's about 5+ years old.
Remove the term Target Panic from your vocabulary. What you need to do is break down your shot sequence in find out specifically where the problem is. For example people say Target panic but it may be fit, you could be grip, bow arm alignment, Bow hand alignment, stance.
Invest in a coach. What going through online videos, different website info etc. That may take you weeks to months to correct something a proper Coach Ken get you ironed out in a single session ... At least identify problems.
What bow are you using right now?
Do you know your proper draw length? I'm asking just because a lot of people have the wrong DL... They go by a tape measure and a formula.. which is often wrong. Find a very lightweight recurve, sub 20 lb, attach a d Loop to it, get an arrow with inch marks on it. Simply load the arrow and draw look it where the inch Mark is at the Burger hole... highly suggest having somebody that can identify form flaws assist you with this. You can always keep making Minor Adjustments as necessary to your cams, assuming you shouldn't compound, but that is a pain in the butt.
What kind of weight are you shooting? Asking because so many people get over bowed do you think they're not being manly if they don't shoot anything 70 lbs or more. Perfectly fine for somebody that can draw that bow smooth and level, let down just as easy and do that for about 75 to 100 shots...
What distances are you shooting?
Are you command shooting or you rotating through the shot (aka back tension).
When exercise I used to do with my students is blind blank bailing. You'll need a Target that is about chest level, take the site off your bow, no specific Target face to shoot out, start off at about 5 yards. And you would literally shoot with your eyes closed.
The purpose of this exercise is to get you used to feeling your form. Feeling with that alignment is feeling your grip feeling your Anchor Point. You'll be surprised how quickly you go from a shotgun pattern to a really nice tight group that you need to start backing up.
With your sign on, Single arrow in your quiver shooting drills. Put you up paper plate on your target. Step off 5 to 10 yards ... shoot the paper plate walk up pull the arrow and do the same thing again dot-dot-dot you have to hit the same hole ... If you don't you have to step closer and get a new paper plate. Your intent is to put 20 + shots and the same exact hole... and this is before you can step back a yard
First thing I would do is save your money and not buy anything new. You're not going to get any significant technology from a New Year bow to something that's about 5+ years old.
Remove the term Target Panic from your vocabulary. What you need to do is break down your shot sequence in find out specifically where the problem is. For example people say Target panic but it may be fit, you could be grip, bow arm alignment, Bow hand alignment, stance.
Invest in a coach. What going through online videos, different website info etc. That may take you weeks to months to correct something a proper Coach Ken get you ironed out in a single session ... At least identify problems.
What bow are you using right now?
Do you know your proper draw length? I'm asking just because a lot of people have the wrong DL... They go by a tape measure and a formula.. which is often wrong. Find a very lightweight recurve, sub 20 lb, attach a d Loop to it, get an arrow with inch marks on it. Simply load the arrow and draw look it where the inch Mark is at the Burger hole... highly suggest having somebody that can identify form flaws assist you with this. You can always keep making Minor Adjustments as necessary to your cams, assuming you shouldn't compound, but that is a pain in the butt.
What kind of weight are you shooting? Asking because so many people get over bowed do you think they're not being manly if they don't shoot anything 70 lbs or more. Perfectly fine for somebody that can draw that bow smooth and level, let down just as easy and do that for about 75 to 100 shots...
What distances are you shooting?
Are you command shooting or you rotating through the shot (aka back tension).
When exercise I used to do with my students is blind blank bailing. You'll need a Target that is about chest level, take the site off your bow, no specific Target face to shoot out, start off at about 5 yards. And you would literally shoot with your eyes closed.
The purpose of this exercise is to get you used to feeling your form. Feeling with that alignment is feeling your grip feeling your Anchor Point. You'll be surprised how quickly you go from a shotgun pattern to a really nice tight group that you need to start backing up.
With your sign on, Single arrow in your quiver shooting drills. Put you up paper plate on your target. Step off 5 to 10 yards ... shoot the paper plate walk up pull the arrow and do the same thing again dot-dot-dot you have to hit the same hole ... If you don't you have to step closer and get a new paper plate. Your intent is to put 20 + shots and the same exact hole... and this is before you can step back a yard
I can echo what seanh said about archerytalk.com. That is where I went years ago. Just like coming here when interested in long range, I was able to learn a ton just by browsing the site.
If you have a local proshop - typically not a big box store but sometimes they have quality techs that can point you in the right direction - try out going to the proshop. I got lucky with mine and the guy that sold me my bow was the state archery champ (multiple times) and he started me off shooting so I got great instruction right out of the gate. 100% having a good coach will be better than trying to sort out the errors on your own (unless you know exactly what it is you are doing wrong).
If you have a local proshop - typically not a big box store but sometimes they have quality techs that can point you in the right direction - try out going to the proshop. I got lucky with mine and the guy that sold me my bow was the state archery champ (multiple times) and he started me off shooting so I got great instruction right out of the gate. 100% having a good coach will be better than trying to sort out the errors on your own (unless you know exactly what it is you are doing wrong).
Right now I’m just trying to find a consistent form. If I can pull up and let it go, I’m fine. My problem is that I am a bench shooter, so my brain is telling me that I need to be within a 1/4” of dead center before I can think of firing. I’m a natural shooter when hunting with a rifle . Put it on the neck or behind the shoulder and dead deer. It’s the whole target thing that is screwing me up. After about 2 months, the fact that it’s a trigger makes me want to be perfect.
I’ve read a bunch of posts on that site, but I was hoping that maybe others here may have the same issue. I have shot rifles all my life and the whole bow shooting thing is new. Just wanted to find out if anyone has advice on a thumb release.
I messed around with a thumb release. I still prefer my trigger release to be honest. The best way I think I can describe it is there should be less emphasis on "trigger control" in archery and more on shooting form.
Just an absolute guess, but I am wondering if your follow through is part of the problem and what your shot sequence is. One thing some guys will try is training with a backtension release. I wouldn't recommend one for hunting (i'm sure some guys use them) but it may help train you for proper shot sequence.
Rather than focusing on trigger pull or pressing the thumb release at the correct moment when your sights are lined up - allow for the wobble in your sight picture and focus on squeezing your back - like you are trying to pinch an apple between your shoulder blades. Let that motion be what sets off the release rather than a conscious trigger press. Focus on keeping your sight picture consistent until the shot surprises you. The blank bailing that seanh mentioned is a great way to work on your form.
Also, have you tried animal targets? Are you shooting dots? If you haven't tried an animal target - give that a go. I seem to have better results shooting animal targets than the dots - probably for similar reasons. I often fall into the mode of wanting my sight to be steady on the dot and in the center before shooting which leads me to command shooting. That makes my form fall apart and I do worse.
Just an absolute guess, but I am wondering if your follow through is part of the problem and what your shot sequence is. One thing some guys will try is training with a backtension release. I wouldn't recommend one for hunting (i'm sure some guys use them) but it may help train you for proper shot sequence.
Rather than focusing on trigger pull or pressing the thumb release at the correct moment when your sights are lined up - allow for the wobble in your sight picture and focus on squeezing your back - like you are trying to pinch an apple between your shoulder blades. Let that motion be what sets off the release rather than a conscious trigger press. Focus on keeping your sight picture consistent until the shot surprises you. The blank bailing that seanh mentioned is a great way to work on your form.
Also, have you tried animal targets? Are you shooting dots? If you haven't tried an animal target - give that a go. I seem to have better results shooting animal targets than the dots - probably for similar reasons. I often fall into the mode of wanting my sight to be steady on the dot and in the center before shooting which leads me to command shooting. That makes my form fall apart and I do worse.
Don’t chase releases. Find one that you like and stick with it. If you want to get rid of anticipation I’d bring you to a back tension release, but really, just get use to one and stick with it. Look up fundamentals and get good at them like anything else really.
The second part is this post is related to bowhunting. I don’t know what that means to you, but here out west, get use to shooting a bow in different positions. Up, down, on your knees, standing etc, and stretch out further than your comfortable with so the “regular shots” become easier.
What you're saying about shooting a different positions is y when I'm coaching I find a weight that is manageable. By manageable I mean you can draw slowly and level standing sitting kneeling ... doesn't matter. As I said earlier, the able to let down as smoothly as you drew none of this grip it and rip it stuff..
You'll get to the point where it is just as comfortable oh, it's just going to take time.
What you're looking for is exactly why one of the training methods I use is blind bailing. Included as part of your regular shooting routine and you will quickly know when you are and are not on your form.
I would suggest getting on archerytalk and going and looking for the "how's my form threads" look for a user named Nuts and Bolts. You will find how he breaks down the different natural Buttes of building your form... it all starts with standing up straight and having the boat fit you. He's a great coach and we'll work with you one-on-one over the Internet / phone with video of your shooting. I don't remember how much he charges but I know he's very reasonable.
It sounds like to me from what you briefly described that you may be punching the trigger. Additionally, your bow may not be balanced very well for you.
Fit is pretty simple... Just work with somebody to get you set up right. Balance ... you're on your own. The only thing you can do is add varying amounts of weight in different places in different links on your stabilizer to find what works for you. It's a timely process so don't get discouraged when you start working on that.... again, nuts and bolts has a process for doing this which can help limit your time.
Punching the trigger? Pretty common with people that go from Rifle and Pistol shooting to archery. The reason is because most people weren't taught proper Trigger Discipline they want to shoot so I squeeze the trigger. Which initially sounds acceptable want to break down the mechanics... You can't just squeeze the trigger you have to slowly press the trigger and it goes off when it goes off... kind of a surprise release.
So my question is, are you physically using your index finger to squeeze the trigger or thumb whatever the case it is? If so that could be part of your problem. Assuming an index finger fire, make your finger look like a j... Bent 90deg in the middle knuckle. Adjust your release strap in length so that the trigger fits just inside the middle part of that "hook" finger. You'll use your back muscles that will pull your draw arm like a swinging door ... this will pull the trigger.
You don't want to fist holding your release... Top of your hand flat aligned straight with your forearm. Strong hand has relax, just enough tension to hold the release, forearm relaxed ... you want almost all the tension on your back, not shoulders bicep tricep etc.
The shape of your buow arm... Stand up straight and relax let your arms naturally hang up their sides ... that same natural shape the arm is free hanging is what you want when you rotate it 90 degrees. You don't force your bow arm straight you don't force your bow arm bent you want bone to bone contact. You want that natural alignment you don't want to muscle it.
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Target panic is a tough one sometimes.
-make sure you are not pulling too much weight
-blind bail shooting, get close to your target 5yds or so, draw and line up, (helps if target is chest level and you are not shooting too much of a downward angle) close eyes and relax, then squeeze the trigger maintaining your form and follow through. Great training drill
-try a spring trigger release, these are a good training tool. Helps to keep from punching the trigger and breaking form
Float the pin, focus on target and bring pin to target, don't focus on the pin and put pin on target. If your target has dots pick a blemish in the dot and focus on that as you float the pin, don't focus on the whole dot. A lot of people over shoot. If you are getting fatigued at all take a break.
-make sure you are not pulling too much weight
-blind bail shooting, get close to your target 5yds or so, draw and line up, (helps if target is chest level and you are not shooting too much of a downward angle) close eyes and relax, then squeeze the trigger maintaining your form and follow through. Great training drill
-try a spring trigger release, these are a good training tool. Helps to keep from punching the trigger and breaking form
Float the pin, focus on target and bring pin to target, don't focus on the pin and put pin on target. If your target has dots pick a blemish in the dot and focus on that as you float the pin, don't focus on the whole dot. A lot of people over shoot. If you are getting fatigued at all take a break.
Try a Cascade Relax release. It works the opposite of using a muscle to pull the trigger, just relax pressure and off it goes.
Trap shooters use them sometimes when they have the yips
Trap shooters use them sometimes when they have the yips
If you are having issues with target panic I would recommend and back tension release and blind bail training.
The primary focus of a back tension release is not knowing when the release will go off but centering your focus on form and aiming, the rest just falls into place.
I use one now for hunting and you can ultimately tune it down as light as you want one you get the panic part under control and learn to tension up and pull through the shot.
The primary focus of a back tension release is not knowing when the release will go off but centering your focus on form and aiming, the rest just falls into place.
I use one now for hunting and you can ultimately tune it down as light as you want one you get the panic part under control and learn to tension up and pull through the shot.
As others have said, blank bail at 5 yards or so ( really just enough for the arrow to safely clear the string and riser). Usually when I get a new bow, I shoot it at like 2 yards with no sight, often coming to full draw, checking my arrow alignment, then closing my eyes and working through the release ( I would recommend doing this on a range that has a wall)
You can't buy anything to fix what people call Target panic. The reason is this... Target Panic doesn't exist. It's a term that's generically describes every single problem and Archer could possibly have. It's a great term to throw around for marketing purposes.
Write down a shot sequence, find out what specific part of the problem it's causing float issues. Write down the firing sequence and find out why punching the trigger is happening .
Address the target, load the arrow, reset release, hook d loop, set drawing properly, pretension the draw, set bow grip, set shoulder, roughly a acquire sight picture, draw bow, set anchor, settle site, verify torque,... if poor torque or alignment then he's down start the process over... if all good start the firing sequence...
Now I have something to work with in identifying problems.
Write down a shot sequence, find out what specific part of the problem it's causing float issues. Write down the firing sequence and find out why punching the trigger is happening .
Address the target, load the arrow, reset release, hook d loop, set drawing properly, pretension the draw, set bow grip, set shoulder, roughly a acquire sight picture, draw bow, set anchor, settle site, verify torque,... if poor torque or alignment then he's down start the process over... if all good start the firing sequence...
Now I have something to work with in identifying problems.
Thanks for the info. It may just be that my release trigger has too much slop and too hard of a pull. I’m used to my rifles were I set my finger on it once I have my crosshairs set and I let nature take its course. On my bad flinches, it’s seems like I am trying to release and if it does not go, I jerk. Total mind game. And who says the hide does not have bow hunters.
Just a thought, are you bare armed or wearing a long sleeve shirt. If you don’t wear a arm guard and hit your sleeve it will cause a bad miss. Wear one with a jacket for sure.
My dad would head out west every summer for 1week to work with Tim Strickland. They worked on his form and as RTH1800 has said they too used a video camera... its a tremendous help with form, stance breathing arrow release. Coach Strickland has trained a boatload of Olympians for the USA..
If you can find a Bernies can’t punch release it will help you , it will not let you shoot unless you have a good trigger pull and good follow through. A buddy of mine had a bad case of slapping the trigger and it cured it pretty quick once he started using it, pretty funny watching him flinching and still being locked on the string with the release. as others have stated get close to a target close your eyes and go through the motions also.
Bad habits with archery equipment, specifically punching a trigger are easy to acquire and can be very difficult to correct.
When using a wrist mounted index finger fired release the tendency is to punch it on float over which is the absolute wrong way to fire that type of release.
The trigger should be in the junction of the second knuckle and as you build your firing position and pull through the shot it should be a combination of back tension and a slight closing of the hand.
I switched to a Stan Element that goes off when a certain tension is acheaved after releasing rearward tension on the thumb safety but can also be manipulated several other ways that aren't recommended.
By loading up with back tension and also holding back on the safety it will go off as soon as the safety is released it will also do the same if you slightly push forward on the safety.
When using a wrist mounted index finger fired release the tendency is to punch it on float over which is the absolute wrong way to fire that type of release.
The trigger should be in the junction of the second knuckle and as you build your firing position and pull through the shot it should be a combination of back tension and a slight closing of the hand.
I switched to a Stan Element that goes off when a certain tension is acheaved after releasing rearward tension on the thumb safety but can also be manipulated several other ways that aren't recommended.
By loading up with back tension and also holding back on the safety it will go off as soon as the safety is released it will also do the same if you slightly push forward on the safety.
Let the sight “hover” over your target. Squeeze when it “hovers” where Do you want it. Tell your brain this is nothing like shooting a gun from the bench. With correct form your shots will fall into place. Good luck, it’s so fun
pick up a stan sx3 or 4 and thank me later. Best thumb release I have shot and I have shot most of them
It's never too late to start hunting with a bow. My father began to hunt with a bow when he was already 50 years old because his rifle got broken, but he wanted very much to go hunting. He took the old bow which someone had gifted him and went hunting. He came home without anything, but he was happier than when he had killed a bear together with his friends. After that he began to learn archery every day soon he began to hunt only with the bow and only sometimes he used his rifle. I want to give him a bow case as gift because he had everything except this. I have seen a lot of interesting models on hibipod.com, I think that this will make him happy.
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Target panic or trigger punching is usually a symptom of a large float(pin moving back and forth over the target). And while certain releases like a hinge(back tension) or a thumb release may help with target panic it is still possible to punch a hinge or thumb release if your float is too big.
The steadiness of your sight picture(float) is directly related to your draw length. Finding someone who is qualified to determine your correct draw length would the best advice I could give you. *Most archery shop employees are not qualified to determine correct draw length.
while it is possible to shoot extremely well with an “incorrect” draw length it requires relying on the steadiness of muscles instead of the skeletal system. Muscles behave differently when the pressure is high. And shooting with high shoulders lead to injury with excessive practice(ask me how i know)
to summarize:
1. make sure you have the correct draw length
2. Shoot the shit out of your bow.
3. watch float shrink with practice
4. watch target panic disappear
The steadiness of your sight picture(float) is directly related to your draw length. Finding someone who is qualified to determine your correct draw length would the best advice I could give you. *Most archery shop employees are not qualified to determine correct draw length.
while it is possible to shoot extremely well with an “incorrect” draw length it requires relying on the steadiness of muscles instead of the skeletal system. Muscles behave differently when the pressure is high. And shooting with high shoulders lead to injury with excessive practice(ask me how i know)
to summarize:
1. make sure you have the correct draw length
2. Shoot the shit out of your bow.
3. watch float shrink with practice
4. watch target panic disappear
Make sure the bow you are shooting isnt too heavy of a draw for you. We, men, tend to have an ego about draw weight. Do not be afraid to shoot at 45-50# pounds while you master aiming, release and follow through. Then work your way up where you want to be. I shoot an 80# selfbow but practice mostly with a 48# bow to keep my form and release.
