Rifle Scopes New for 2023 Optics
- Thread starter Reload10
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Shot is in a week, we will find out soon…
I'd like to see a Vortex 1-10 with an actual set of real turrets and a parallax adjustment
This guy that was posted to their site then it disappeared.
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Primary Arms sent out an email today showing some new optics. Going to be an GLx 4.5-27x56 with their Athena MIL reticle that has me very interested. I'm curious to know if they're using Japanese ED glass in the SLx line (like the Arken EP line), or if they're just using Chinese HD glass like the Arken SH4 Gen2. Because price-wise, magnification options, and build specs/design, they are VERY similar to the Arken scopes. I wonder if they're both using the same OEM in China?
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My OF Account won't run itself, so I won't make it this year... 
- Richard
- Richard
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Interested to hear more about that 2-10 Mark5.
Lets see if they've managed to pull it off or if they have done another Leupold.
Lets see if they've managed to pull it off or if they have done another Leupold.
TT has a 7-35x56 coming. ATI rumored to have a SAI 8 1-8x24. March has new FFP 1.5-15x42. Vortex has new CCP Strike Eagle 3-18x44. Schmidt says their new 6-36 will actually be shipped this year. Most companies try to keep quiet and announce right before SHOT next week so we should hear a lot more or a little more in less than a week.
Steiner announced T6Xi end of last year. Nightforce offered DMX reticle in NX8. Zeiss announced S3 mid last year.
Steiner announced T6Xi end of last year. Nightforce offered DMX reticle in NX8. Zeiss announced S3 mid last year.
Of all listed the March IMO has the most impact on the segment . As a true MPVO this promises everything a lot of shooters been searching for. The only thing that can keep it from being great is the usual eyebox and paralax sensitivity criteria . I'm hoping the consensus is positive.
That Leupold looks interesting.
If Leupold beats everyone to this punch, the rest of the optics community should go beat themselves up in the bathroom.
If Leupold beats everyone to this punch, the rest of the optics community should go beat themselves up in the bathroom.
All I want in my life is a couple TT 7-35... that's all I'm excited for.
Question - how much does it weigh? Assuming in the Mark 5HD lineup it's probably less than 20oz just looking at the size which would open lots of doors. I really like the Athon Helos 2-12x42, but don't like the made in china designation. I do wish the Leupy was a 42mm objective for better low light situations, but guessing they are going for super light weight with their design. And a Mark 5 that's not a stupid 35mm tube diameter, how refreshing. Biggest question, will illumination be a $500 upcharge (will it even be available in this scope) - this is seriously stupid from Leupold. Hence the "done another Leupold" phrase
All that being said, even if they do "another Leupold" if this scope is around the 20oz or less mark I think it will have a lot of interest regardless of their continued shortcomings. I'm going to get the March 1.5-15x42 for a review next month hopefully, might be interesting to see if I can get my hands on one of these as well, if anyone has any ties to Leupold let me know.Question - how much does it weigh? Assuming in the Mark 5HD lineup it's probably less than 20oz just looking at the size which would open lots of doors. I really like the Athon Helos 2-12x42, but don't like the made in china designation. I do wish the Leupy was a 42mm objective for better low light situations, but guessing they are going for super light weight with their design. And a Mark 5 that's not a stupid 35mm tube diameter, how refreshing. Biggest question, will illumination be a $500 upcharge (will it even be available in this scope) - this is seriously stupid from Leupold. Hence the "done another Leupold" phrase
Unless someone screenshot the spec part then nobody knows. I was already on the phone with Jason at Euro this morning about it and he’s got zero info on it. Not on the 2023 price list sheet or new product literature. Seems someone in tech fucked up and uploaded something they shouldn’t have. I’m hoping it gets released at SHOT and has a LPVO style tree reticle like the H27D, LE5, FC-DMX.
If the 2-10x30 is real and what I think it is then goodbye LPVO's and their compromises, hello RMR and 2-10. Also for pairing with clip on devices and headed mounted NOD, ...tits!
Screenshot shows TMR reticle
Yes, I expect the official release to be during SHOT next week.Screenshot shows TMR reticle
Yeah that’s just because whoever screenshot it had clicked on that particular model. If you go to their website they list the individual MK5 models and then you click on each individual one for details.
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This is the ONLY type of scope that could have forced me to buy a Leupold. I am having a hard time within myself believing they’ll actually nail it.
Feels like I’m in the twilight zone, if they put a BDC reticle in it and offer ballistic turret caps, I’ll actually be a little relieved, like the poles haven’t switched.
Had a few guys from Leupold here this afternoon, it's real and more details will be available soon
I'm confused. That power range has been around for a long time... Why the sudden hard on? Just that it's a Mark 5?
They are not using the same OEM and I'd be shocked if either is using anything Japanese, not that it matters. You can get absolutely world class glass from Chinese factories if you are so inclined.
As far as new scopes go, I have the new SLx 1-6x24 with fiber reticle here and it is surprisingly good. PA has been on a bit of a tear here. The way they are revamping their product lines is really impressive.
ILya
That it might have tac scope features and weigh less than 25 ozs. That’s how asinine this has gotten. It’s as if there is a war of wills going on now. We are NOT ALLOWED to have a tac hunting x-over scope below 20 oz. It’s a full auto scope, going to need tax stamps.
Meanwhile, the 2 1/2 year back order on SWFA 3-9s showed up. Sold back out in a day.
2-10 mk5, awesome. 30mm objective though? Yes, a better exit pupil than a LPVO, but I think they are missing the mark a bit. 40-42mm would be ideal IMO.
Unless this thing comes in extremely cheap (with illumination), I can’t imagine buying it over the March 1.5-15. Brand recognition and big box stores will have them flying off the shelves though.
Unless this thing comes in extremely cheap (with illumination), I can’t imagine buying it over the March 1.5-15. Brand recognition and big box stores will have them flying off the shelves though.
Question - how much does it weigh? Assuming in the Mark 5HD lineup it's probably less than 20oz just looking at the size which would open lots of doors. I really like the Athon Helos 2-12x42, but don't like the made in china designation. I do wish the Leupy was a 42mm objective for better low light situations, but guessing they are going for super light weight with their design. And a Mark 5 that's not a stupid 35mm tube diameter, how refreshing. Biggest question, will illumination be a $500 upcharge (will it even be available in this scope) - this is seriously stupid from Leupold. Hence the "done another Leupold" phrase
Do you think you will compare it at all to the Vortex LHT 4.5-22x50? I realize it's a different magnification range but these seem to be two of the best lightweight FFP crossover scopes currently on the market.
1-10x for the SAI. I've been waiting for that release ever since this podcast:
I'm looking to upgrade from a GII Razor 1-6. Between the upcoming SAI, March 1.5-15 and maybe the Leuopold 2-12, this decision is going to be a little harder than I thought it would be.
Question - how much does it weigh? Assuming in the Mark 5HD lineup it's probably less than 20oz just looking at the size which would open lots of doors. I really like the Athon Helos 2-12x42, but don't like the made in china designation. I do wish the Leupy was a 42mm objective for better low light situations, but guessing they are going for super light weight with their design. And a Mark 5 that's not a stupid 35mm tube diameter, how refreshing. Biggest question, will illumination be a $500 upcharge (will it even be available in this scope) - this is seriously stupid from Leupold. Hence the "done another Leupold" phrase
I imagine it'll be very short and very light weight, I imagine the reason they went for the 30mm objective is to try get it very short.
My predictions are:
Pros:
Short
Lightweight 22oz (complete guess)
Parralax adjustment
Cons:
Expensive
Expensive Illumination up charge (non-illuminated shouldn't be an option on this scope)
Dumb 35mm tube
Dumb reticles (TMR isn't a bad reticle but they could improve it with about 10minutes of thought)
Below avergage FOV
Yep, I’ve got one sitting on a large frame upper right now, from the day they sent out the email.
Why is it fukn rocket science for these companies to do a proper "super medium" scope? They built 10 buzzillion 3-9's in the world. Its 2023, come on.
I want to see a NF 2-10 or 2-12 x 36-42mm with paralax adjustment, capped turrets, and fc-dmx reticle that weighs 17-21oz. Why is that rocket science?
Vortex could do a razor like that too, although the reticle in their 1-10 is unfortunately a dumpster fire.
Do the companies think there wouldn't be a market for such a scope?
I hope Leupold rocked a mk5 2-10, I'll def be watchin for that.
I want to see a NF 2-10 or 2-12 x 36-42mm with paralax adjustment, capped turrets, and fc-dmx reticle that weighs 17-21oz. Why is that rocket science?
Vortex could do a razor like that too, although the reticle in their 1-10 is unfortunately a dumpster fire.
Do the companies think there wouldn't be a market for such a scope?
I hope Leupold rocked a mk5 2-10, I'll def be watchin for that.
MVPOs used to be popular in "first gen" scopes but never quite transitioned into later gen models due to being so close in specs to higher magnification scopes people didn't buy them.
For example the Gen1 PST 2.5-10x32 was a pretty popular little scope but the Gen2 2-10x32 was not, mostly due to weighing 26oz vs 19oz of the Gen 1.
It was only 2oz lighter than the 3-15 everyone bought that instead.
The rise of higher mag LVPOs stole a lot of the support that was remaining.
So manufacturers stopped doing R&D to improve them, making them less appealing so less people bought them.
A good FFP MVPO is actually kind of difficult to get right, much of the market trends has forced scopes to get heavier which people suck up in a 3-15 but won't in a 2-10.
People are wanting the form factor of an LVPO (lightweight and short) but a bigger objective, more stuff (dialing turrets and parallax), a reticle that works well at both high magnification and low magnification, and doesn't cost too much.
I thinks it's almost impossible to make an MPVO that'll weigh the same as a 1-10 LVPO especially once an offset red dot is added, but that is what they'll be compared too and many people will just buy the LVPO.
I can't help but think this Leupold is built for other non-civilian applications as it seems a tough field for Leupold to have entered and be the first "alpha" manufacturer to attempt.
I guess they are well suited as they can build the thing in house rather than try invent a while new scope through an OEM.
I think the scope will be pretty sweet but its inevitable compromises will need to be made. I just don't have faith Leupold will make the right compromises, or get right the parts that are easy to get right.
Most companies get their scopes built by OEMs and most OEMs aren't offering MVPOs with these specs.
To go out and get a clean sheet design done on a market that historically has been a tough sell doesn't make sense, hence why it's not suprising Leupold is one of the first to give it a crack.
I hear what your saying, but that doesnt change my desire for the scope I listed out.
I want it for a 14-18" ar or a shorty bolt gun. I don't care about offset red-dots, I ain't no operator, just some dude that likes to carry a fine rifle around in the mountains and shoot stuff. I'll defend my life if I have to, but I'm not a pro door-kicker. I also happen to appreciate the features of modern optics and the beauty of a mil-based christmas-tree holdover reticle.
The rub comes because almost no scopes combine all of those features and still maintain a decent weight and form factor. The specific features I'm looking for are:
10-12x max, 40ish mm objective, mil-based christmas tree reticle with a fine center, capped turrets, and about 20ish ounces max weight
I think the Razor 1-10 has been the closest one yet to what I'm talking about. However, the razor has a couple serious drawbacks. The biggest of these is the reticle, it's too small on 1 power, and too big on 10 power, so lose lose. I dont care that much that it doesnt have paralax adjustment, but that would have been cool.
I also have the nx8 2.5-20. Great scope but its damned near 2 pounds, and the reticle is pretty un-usable at 2.5x as well.
Anyway, I've got fingers crossed that someone will do something awesome soon in the MVPO department, certainly I can't be the only guy in the world that wants one.
I want it for a 14-18" ar or a shorty bolt gun. I don't care about offset red-dots, I ain't no operator, just some dude that likes to carry a fine rifle around in the mountains and shoot stuff. I'll defend my life if I have to, but I'm not a pro door-kicker. I also happen to appreciate the features of modern optics and the beauty of a mil-based christmas-tree holdover reticle.
The rub comes because almost no scopes combine all of those features and still maintain a decent weight and form factor. The specific features I'm looking for are:
10-12x max, 40ish mm objective, mil-based christmas tree reticle with a fine center, capped turrets, and about 20ish ounces max weight
I think the Razor 1-10 has been the closest one yet to what I'm talking about. However, the razor has a couple serious drawbacks. The biggest of these is the reticle, it's too small on 1 power, and too big on 10 power, so lose lose. I dont care that much that it doesnt have paralax adjustment, but that would have been cool.
I also have the nx8 2.5-20. Great scope but its damned near 2 pounds, and the reticle is pretty un-usable at 2.5x as well.
Anyway, I've got fingers crossed that someone will do something awesome soon in the MVPO department, certainly I can't be the only guy in the world that wants one.
I email Nightforce here and there asking for an NXS 2.5-10x32 FFP, tooless zero stop, Mil-R, mil turrets, capped windage, no illumination, locking diopter, <12”, <20oz, and a parallax adjustment.
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Nightforce had the ball in hand with their 2-10x32. Could have gone 3-12x42 FFP with a basic tree and capped the wind, it’d probably still be one of their biggest sellers.
Vortex had a perfect launch line in the AMG series. Same thing, could have rolled out a 3-12 or 4-16x40 and boom.
March could have simply cleaned up the 3-24. Nope.
Zeiss made one of the best scopes I’ve ever seen glass wise as a 3-12x56. It was FFP, mil, and IIRC 16ozs. Put a better turret on it, a sweet reticle, and a 40mm objective lens. How hard is that, truly?
They’ve all had 10 years of opportunities. Meanwhile, we’ve gotten 700 versions of 5-25s made in every global swamp that has three phase. Clearly, manufacturers follow the market and don’t think it will sell.
It’s not just the makers though, it’s us. We are, as a whole, stupid and unsophisticated. (We buy Arken scopes for crying out loud!!)
We talk, and they listen, then they produce what we talked about, and we don’t buy tons of it. Every thread where we discuss this lack of options, there’s 20 guys that chime in saying they just want it around 28ozs, 20 more that want 7-10x erectors, 20 more that want 20x on the high end, and on and on and on. Next thing you know you have a twin to 3-15 F1 that we’ve had for 20 years.
I have thought about this too! It would be awesome! My theory is that being only 10x max, it wouldnt matter so much that its second focal plane because by the time something was far enough away to start using mils, you'd probably be on 10x anyway.
And truthfully this would probably encapsulate 80% of the American market, but that’s not what they think. This kind of pragmatic self analysis is rare.
I heard Quigley Ford and Valdada are releasing a joint Dual Focal Plane Tactical Optic in the 10-100 range that also converts from MIL/MOA with a flip of a switch.
I got to see a Quigley up close and personal last fall. It’s everything I imagined it would be
Trust me I’m on your side, I think the prevalence of clip on NV/thermals might finally be enough to get manufacturers/consumers onboard with MVPOs.
I’ve found forum posts from 8+ years ago of mine about this topic, in that time options have only got worse.
Perhaps Leupold will get the ball rolling for the new era of MVPOs.
I feel like this already exists in the Nightforce 2.5-10 x 32 and 42. I have a 2.5-10x42 and it is pretty compact and light at 20ozs. No capped turrets but it does have zero stop. Only real possible advantage I can see on the Leupold is FFP. I personally don't seem much need for FFP on optics that top out at 10X. I must be missing something.
Yeah, I'm really liking my new SLx 1-10x28 SFP with the ACSS Griffin M10S MIL reticle. I liked it so much, and was so impressed, I bought a 2nd one because I had $100 in "bonus bucks" that were expiring, and was able to still use the 12% christmas discount on top of that, so I saved about $150 off of it. LOL
Have you had a chance to look through or review one of these yet? I'd be curious to know your thoughts on it.
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