New Gal Here From SoCal - Thinking About a 280 AI Custom Mountain Rifle

[Qrachel]

Hi: I'm new, weren't we all at some point? I live in the greater LA area, and I like it here. Run a small consulting company that's doing good. Enough about me - on to rifles and long range ones at that!

This seems like a pretty cool crowd with lots of interesting posts, blogs, etc. I shoot several revolvers (45acp and 44spcl/44mag are favs), an AR-15 223/5.56 I bought last year (LWRC) with and 18" barrel and a 6x pig-plex scope (can shoot it all day), and a recently acquired 30-06 Tikka with a NF 3.5-18x56 for a hunt this fall in MT - my first in a long time. Plan to go custom after I hunt for a week in the Big Sky Country . . . sort of a Xmas present for being a good girl.

Read the posts about the 280 Ackely Improved and noticed they don't seem to cause much traffic on the various forums. But I am old fashioned and think that if I am going invest in a custom hunting rifle at this point in my life, I'd like something with a bit of a punch to it down range but not have that magnum, brutish ga-bang and slam recoil - though I'm not recoil shy. I just don't want to put up with it as I'd like to shoot it regularly at the range. I really like to shoot at the range and my interests there are enjoyment, enjoyment, and . . . wait for it . . . enjoyment, in that order. I haven't the eyes for ≤0.5 MOA now, but I can usually bang metal out there quite a ways. It's all fun anyway: The misses, the hits and the all round experience.

The 280 AI seems tame enough, a good long range hunting rifle, and a caliber that should enjoy decent barrel life, all other things being equal. I'd like a 23" barrel but wonder if I shouldn't get a 24". I'll also do a lite weight build and with a NF 3.5-18x56 want the weight at something ≤ 7.25-7.50 lbs. With ammo, sling and a cheek pad it'll come in < 8lbs overall I hope. If not, then I'll probably not move forward. If recoil is an issue (I thinking it shouldn't be), I'll consider a muzzle brake, maybe.

Not sure what to ask here - just sharing and hope others may be interested too. I know the 280 AI isn't the latest 6.5 whatcha-ma-jigger and I'm sure they are good, but the 280 AI sounds just about right for me.

Take care,

Rachel

 

[RyeDaddy]

Welcome Rachel! The 280AI isn't as popular probably because there isn't much factory ammo available for it and the Nosler ammo is expensive. You didn't mention whether you reload or not, which would be a huge boon to success with the 280AI with Nosler providing brass so you don't have to fireform the Ackley shoulder. Lots of great bullet options in 7mm like the 162 Amax and 168 and 180 VLD's, but no factory loadings of them.

Additionally most in this community(tactical shooters) stay with short action cartridges like 308, 260, and 243 unless they step up to large full blown magnums. The 280AI I think would make a darling hunting rifle, but I wouldn't run one in competition which most of us here are into, if I'm stcuk with the weight of a long action I may as well go magnum for wind cheating. No experience with 280AI but have always considered it if I were to build a custom hunter.

If you want to go full custom there are many well respected gunsmiths here that can help discuss options. If you wanted to look at factory rifles, the only one I know of that can be had chambered for 280AI would be the Kimber series of rifles. I owned an 84m Montana in 260 and it was a GREAT hunting rifle, very lightweight and accurate. Light rifles don't necessarily make good bench guns but ~8lbs is much more fun to carry on a hunt than a 14 lb long range rig. The difference between 23" and 24" in barrels in my opinion is nothing, personally I'd go with 23" just to be different.

Good luck with the search.

 

[Pusher591]

If you do reload, have you looked at the 6.5 SAUM? Incredible ballistics with 130/140 pills.

 

[peaceatwar]

280AI I think can be broken down for being unpopular for two reasons. The 280 part and the AI part. It is widely stated that AI catridges can have feed problems from detacheable magazines. I've never owned an AI so I don't know this for fact. To echo RyeDaddy 280AI is an oddball catridge of which there is no factory loadings thus you will be making your own 280 catridges then fireforming to 280 AI. Thats a helluva undertaking if you ask me.

As to what would I rather see? I'd recommend 6.5 Creedmoor. It has the legs and the power to get out there and take game. Hornady makes 140 Amax Match ammo that is both affordable and plentiful, and shoots very well. It also can be chambered in a short action. In this family you could go 260/6.5 Creedmoor/6.5x47Lapua. Hell if you want to hop on the cool kids train(and for good reason) go 6.5 4S or 6.5 SAUM. That is a helluva catrdige.

Just my .02

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Feeds great
Great brass ready to go for loading
Crazy accurate
Great barrel life
Plenty if ammo avaliable. (You can use 280 rem if need be)

I know I've owned one

 

[redneckbmxer24]

280AI is a great round with enough punch to hammer anything in the lower 48 states. It could work for brown bear too but I'd prefer something a little bigger. Out of all the ackley rounds it's the only ones that's supported with factory ammo and brass which means no fire forming and ammo if you don't reload. Nosler makes the brass and nosler and corbon make factory ammo. I've seen the nosler ammo and brass on the shelves at cabelas and bass pro. You're not going to find it at walmart but it's out there. I'm a believer in having a round that you can pick up ammo for anywhere if you're traveling but if you keep your 30-06 and bring it along too you have a back up rifle in a common round.

I say go for it.

 

[cjgemm]

If your looking for a hunting rifle in 7mm, its hard to beat a 7mmRM.

 

[Mute]

Welcome fellow S. Californian! For a hunting round, I generally prefer something I can easily find off the shelf ammo for, in case I don't time to roll out some rounds but still want to head out to the range or a hunt. I would consider a 280 AI if I intended to use the same rig for some long range precision shooting also. Just think through how you plan to use the rifle. You know your needs better than anyone else.

 

[TireMan]

280AI is a fantastic cartridge for what you are looking for. Yes there is factory (nosler) ammo, but for all accounts if you are going to shoot it regularly than just one hunt a year, you will want to reload for it.

As far as barrel length and weight...I have two barrels for mine:
One finished at just under 24" for California deer at short distances (1-10 twist for >159gr)
another at 26" with a 1-9 twist more appropriate for 180 hybrids and VLD hunts (for larger game, comp, and/or longer distances).

Weight, weight, weight! Slapping a close to 2lb Nightforce isn't going to help you get down below 8lbs. Not to mention, with that particular scope you may lean towards a longer barrel and heavier contour as a result.
Pending budget, Zeiss and Swaro may be the ticket for a hunting rig in that weight class.

Great start!

 

[ccoker]

I love mine..
Nosler TGR with the lighter barrel profile.

Fantastic hunting round..

 

[flyrodder]

I also have a Nosler TGR with the light profile barrel with a Zeiss Conquest and really like it. I've never had a problem with feeding, even with a quick second shot on an elk last fall. No problem hitting steel out to 575 using the Rapid-Z 800 reticle. If you are reloading, the E-tips, both 140s and 150s, run well in mine. The AI shoulder really helps brass life.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Plus...the Ackley rounds are just plain SEXY! And case life is great with proper loads.

I have two (.250 AI and .25-06 AI), and looking hard at a third in .280 AI.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

WELCOME!
Do you reload? Pretty much gotta for this game.
Here's a place that has 1K yd shoots several times a year.
It's in the Acton/Palmdale area off the 14 f'way.
Desert Marksmen | Rifle and Pistol Club
Lots of good folk here that will help you--
LG

 

[Wyfox]

Welcome to the Hide Rachel,

With the Nightforce 3.5-15x56 it's going to be tuff to come in at 7.25-7.5lbs and it will be very top heavy on a 5lb ultra light rifle if you do. I would sell the Nightforce or buy another lighter weight optic for this rifle.

I highly recommend the Kimber 280ai, they have one at my local shop, stainless with beautiful walnut stock and ebony cap. Sounds like you have the taste for quality equipment, the Kimber with a Swarovski Z5 3.5-18 BRH in Talley rings would put you in the weight range and caliber you're looking for.

If your not into reloading, your options are limited. As mentioned earlier Nosler has 280ai factory offerings and you can go through custom ammo companies like Superior Ammunition or Extreme munitions but at a much higher price then most factory options. The classic 270win or 30-06 may be a better option on caliber.

 

[catskinner]

Rachel, have you been over on longrangehunting.com ? There is a lot of hunting caliber topics that may help you along also

 

[fdkay]

Seems to me that you've done your research and came to an excellent conclusion.
The .280AI is an an excellent cartridge with outstanding performance.

There are a wide variety of 7mm bullets available, once the 162 AMAX is available, it would be an outstanding long range choice.

 

[VJJPunisher]

pics or I envision Maser's mom

 

[Qrachel]

Hi Everyone: What a great set of responses . . . I'm very thankful and appreciate that so many decided to chime in. To clarify a few things:

- I don't reload but I can deal with having my favorite load done for me at a custom house. The old time vs. $$$ tradeoff; I travel a bit for my bizz.
- I get the NF wt. thing, but what a great piece work.
- I bought the -06 just for the reasons some of you brought up . . . backup, better ammo avail, etc. (shooting 168gr VLDs, expensive but they fly great).
- I'm pretty sure the 23" barrel isn't a big deal for hunting, except for convenience in the field.
- Never had a 7mm but from all I've read this maybe the best caliber for 140-168 gr bullets, YMMV.
- I owned a sweet 300H&H once and sold it while in grad school - dhaaauuuummmmbbbb!!! God, it was a shooter.
- Hadn't thought of the 6.5 Creedmore, but I'll give it some research time (thinking 140gr is probably a good upper end bullet - is there a good 150gr bullet(?), we'll sse)

So, I'm off to dream land hopefully . . . for the night.

Rachel

 

[LRI]

The 280 AI may not be popular, but we sure seem to chamber a bunch of them. Fast, flat shooting, plenty of energy for clean kills, and you can shoot factory made parent cartridges in a pinch. Nice when the airlines or customs cant find your box of bullets....

Need an ammunition service? Get a hold of Jered Nagel from Northern Hills Custom ammunition. He's in Rapid City SD.

(605) 381-2336

Good luck on your project and happy hunting.

c.

 

[T44]

I'm in the middle of 280 Ackley build, but if you're not a reloader, there really isn't anything that the 280AI does that the 270 Win can't do. Either way, take a look at the Kimber Montana, as it's chambered for both rounds.

 

[Oregonmuley]

Rachel, Welcome to the Hide! Since you mention you want a custom Mountain rifle I'd take a look at the Remington KS Custom Mtn rifle as your blueprint for your build if you go that route. They aren't being built anymore and are hard to find but you could build one easy enough since McMillan still makes the KS stock in their Edge fill. I have one in .280 and its a fine hunting rig. Good luck to you.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

One thing I've seen nobody touch on is recoil. I realize the OP seems to write recoil off, but it needs to be mentioned the heavier 7mm bullets the 280ai is ideal for will generate quite a bit of it. Especially when we're talking light weight 280s.

The OP mentions a "muzzle brake, maybe". In hunting rifles I despise the muzzlebrake. It makes a shot without ear protection go from bad (without brake) to absolutely fucking unbearably awful. I've lost count of the game I've not taken a shot at because I had a braked rifle and didn't have time to put in my ears.

Anyway, I suggest the OP try out a ~7.5lb 280 or 7mag and see what she thinks of the recoil before choosing this cartridge.

 

[MosesTheTank]

Rachel,

For me that NF is a bit large for a hunting scope, meaning it's more than I would need for big game. I have Zeiss and Swaros but prefer the knobs and reticles (MLR2) of the NF. There are a number of ways to save weight. Manners stocks and their carbon fiber models are great. I'm not a fan of skinny barrels and have a build right now with a #5 Bartlein with interrupted flutes that weighs about the same as a #4 (be prepared for a flute/no flute debate). I could have gone with a lighter profile, and would have if I had decided on a longer barrel, but I don't mind lugging around a bit of weight. Be as picky as you can afford to be. You can shave an ounce here and there with several components. I don't know of any builders around LA, but Marc Soulie at Spartan Precision in the bay area can help you out with a build. LumpyGrits has a good suggestion. See what some other folks have and handling this and that rifle will help you make up your mind. Whatever you come up with be sure to share.

Congrats on the consulting gig.

MTT

Edit: I have no knowledge of the 280AI but there are plenty of folks here who are. I am, however, a huge fan of the 6.5 Creedmoor. So far I've taken a few yotes and a 200lb pig, all with factory 140s. You should have no qualms with it for whitetail sized game.

 

[wadebrown]

If I was going to treat myself for Christmas for a hunting gun it would be topped off with scope with better optics as too much happens in the first and last 15 minutes of the hunting not to be able to see it on an overcast AM. I would look into Meoptas at the low end and Swarovskys or Schmidt and Benders if you were a really good girl. All of my competition guns sport NF's and my hunting guns Meoptas, I am an optical engineer of sorts and have spent a fair amount of time on scopes.

By the way I love your choice of 280 AI, I have to make time to get out to the shop and barrel up my 280 AI using the original design where the 30-06 is blown forward for max case volume. When you get the gun shoot some standard 280 through it you may be surprised at the accuracy I have built a number of Ackley improved calibers and always amazed at how well the parent case shoots.

edited to add the 280 AI stuff
Free advice that I overcharge for,

 

[Qrachel]

An update - I am again really appreciative of all the great input. So, I'm really seriously looking at the "260's" and they do have appeal. Also, looked the 7 WSM but there is an ammo concern unless ones reloads. The 300 WSM is pretty cool too and is popular enough. I really like the ballistics of the .284 though . . . I'd consider reloading but there's a space and time issue.

I'm still dialing in on the final answer and that's part of the fun.

Rachel

 

[shamir]

The ballistics of the 7mm bullets are hard to beat. If you aren't reloading, then look at these two pages

7mm Remington Magnum factory ammo - 7mm remington magnum ammo rifle

.280 Rem AI factory ammo - http://ammoseek.com/ammo/280-remington-ackley-improved

7mm RM has a LOT more options.

 

[jsthntn247]

Don't do a 280ai. I have one that weighs 8lbs and it will give you a headache shooting 162 amax. Recoil is 2x harder than my 308. A 243 with an 8 twist barrel shooting 105 Vld's or a 260 with 130's would be an excellent choice.

 

[FN in MT]

Not a thing wrong with a .280 AI it's worked for me here on deer, elk and antelope and over in RSA for plains game. I handload, but factory ammo available.

I'd also suggest looking at the .260 Rem, .284 Win, or the standard .280 Rem or .270 winchester. With todays premium bullets the smaller bores can RELIABLY take much larger game than previously thought with old cup and core slugs.

It's fun to play the "Lets build something" game...but remember... it Always comes down to one thing.... Proper PLACEMENT. All the rest of it is secondary.

 

[mdesign]

The standard 280 is a great cartridge but not sure what factory loads all available. A 6.5CM is probably a better option than the 260 from an availability of ammo perspective. Good luck with your project Rachel.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

An update - I am again really appreciative of all the great input. So, I'm really seriously looking at the "260's" and they do have appeal. Also, looked the 7 WSM but there is an ammo concern unless ones reloads. The 300 WSM is pretty cool too and is popular enough. I really like the ballistics of the .284 though . . . I'd consider reloading but there's a space and time issue.

I'm still dialing in on the final answer and that's part of the fun.

Rachel

260 or 6.5 Creedmoor are 99% the same. Both awesome, well rounded cartridges suited to target shooting and hunting. Downside is factory ammo limitations. In 260, for hunting you've got rare Remington corlokt, and in 6.5, you've got Hornady SST. Both require internet purchase, or specialized gun/ammo shop.

Same with 280 and 7wsm, and ESPECIALLY 280ai and 284Win.

300wsm is more popular, but ammo still isn't super available.

7 Rem mag, however, grows on trees, and is stacked floor to ceiling at Walmart!

Almost same story for 7mm-08, which by the way, is the pick of the whole litter. Outstanding 7mm trajectory, highest downrange energy of all the short actions (non magnum, of course), extremely well suited for long range target shooting, nearly same recoil as 308.

 

[Mark williams]

Rachel, welcome to the hide. You can't go wrong with any of the 6.5 family of cartridges. Low recoil and very accurate. My little boy has a ai ae mark 111 in 260 and it's a laser. He's got a nightforce 3.5x15x56 and he's already spotting his hits. I shoot a 6.5x 284 some that I love for hunting also.

 

[ColbyLang]

I shoot an APA 280AI. Very satisfied customer with the cartridge. Ive shot a handful of white tail deer with it and have found every single one. Great ballistics with a 162 grain AMAX. Only thing is mine is a touch heavier than you are looking for, weighing in at 9#. Good luck with your decision. Also, CORBON ammo did the initial load development on my gun. Pete and his crew will also load ammo for me if I'm ever in a pinch. All I have to do is call him up and they'll churn em out

 

[warrbuk]

I have a 280AI in a Rem 700 Hart #5 combo. It is super accurate and doesnt kick much as its a 10lb deal all up. Great cartridge but would be a handfull in a Mtn. Rifle package with heavier bullets without a break. A 260 or 7mm08 would make a great little mtn gun.

 

[tylerw02]

Rachael,

I've been shooting a .280 AI for several years for hunting. I have a custom contour barrel that is between a #3 and #4, finished at 24" and its installed in a B&C Alaskan Ti stock. I wouldn't go any shorter than 24" because the .280 AI needs slow powders. I'd go LIGHTER on the barrel before going shorter.

In mine, I shoot 140 gr Noslers at around 3300 fps, forget exact velocity. It has proven to be the hammer of Thor on game. I've never had an animal take a single step after being hit. Even though my rifle isn't heavy, its a pleasure to shoot. It makes my .308 seem to kick like a mule. The Nosler brass is very good as well---this wasn't available when I had my reamer made, but it still works for my chamber.

Also, it will be very hard to get down in the 7 lb range with a Nightforce on top. I believe thats about a 30oz scope. I'd honestly look at the Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44 before the Nightforce. Its 23 oz, has very good glass, and is FFP. You may also consider the VX-6 3-18x.

One thing I will say though, if you're wanting a Mountain-weight gun, you may skip long action and go with a cartridge that doesn't hit as hard. Like the above poster, I'd suggest .260 or 7mm-08. It will be easier to hit your weight goal and you won't have as much recoil with such a light little gun.

Good luck with your rifle!

 

[JBNj]

My milk shake brings all the boys in the yard.....