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New GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM
- Thread starter Sendero_Man
- Start date
That will be way to hot of a powder for the SAUM. Upon speaking with Josh @ C4, it's also pretty unstable.
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Thanks KYS. I am having a hard time finding available powder here in AK that I can use in the 6.5. There is none of the powder from the chart that Josh and George posted available here in AK. All the powder is to HOT. If any one has suggestions please send it.
Using new Rem 300saum brass, I necked down using .325,.315,.305, and .294. Then used a 6.5 neck expander and trimmed .015. When trimming it left a 90 degree ledge when cutting 1/32 down into the shoulder.
It'll probably be fine. Likely the brass won't hold a primer before that cut "if?, it's too deep into the shoulder" moves up into the neck. The most important part is the necks are all even now.
Doesn't your cutter have a angle ground onto it where it meets the shoulder?
Doesn't your cutter have a angle ground onto it where it meets the shoulder?
Yes the cutter does have an angle. Monday I will call K&M and order one with a 30 degree angle. I shouldn't of said 90 degees, it does angle cut but leaves a ridge line and doesn't flow or feather off back into the shoulder and you can feel it with your finger nail also visually. Maybe when they are fire formed it might go away .
I'm trying to better understand which powders to look for as H1000 appears to be nonexistant at this time. My question is, based off the above charts, what makes the Ramshot Magnum look good out of the listed powders? Compared to the Ramshot Mag, for example, the 7828SCC is single base, very similar in estimated velocity and pressure, and with less powder. I'm not saying the 7828SCC is better, I'm just trying to better understand how to interpret the numbers for the other suggested powders. Thanks.
**This question isn't necessarily directed at George. His post just got me thinking.
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From the limited research I have done on Ramshot Magnum I know this: it will be a slightly dirtier powder, its a ball powder, pressure are a tad higher. I guess it will take someone testing it in a rifle to get real results. I'll test it if I can get my hands on some of it.
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I'm gathering parts and have Ramshot Magnum and 7828SCC on the way, it will likely be a couple months but I'll happily report my findings.
George I was looking at you web page there it list a #3 Bartlien GAP contour barrel on here it just a #3 Bartlien contour is there a slight difference in them ? Dumb question I know but at -40 my thought process slows a little thanks. Also wouldn't mind to here from the guys from Alberta who have been on here.
I'd be more interested to know velocities to powder charge ratio. Pressures at that load. And how quickly heat was generated since the burn rates are slightly different.
Is that a 3 round group? It's fine. I was more or less wanting to test the physical differences in the loads/powders over looking at group sizes.
Im thinking Ramshot Magnum is going to work real well!! 63 grains on the 140 and 65 on the 130 should be about perfect and keep pressure to 58,000 PSI
So the Manners SL on the X Hunter is lighter than the standard SL? Anybody know how the SL on the X hunter compares to the EH models weight wise?
While I do agree that on paper (Q/L) it looks promising and that the testing done so far is encouraging so much that I have a keg of it for testing myself but the consistency of it in different temps along with high count strings still leaves me with doubts. Only time will tell.
That's what I'm thinking. In talking with a few guys that know their ammo.... Ramshot Mag is really unstable in temp change. I'd like to load some up now and shoot it then wait till it warms up and shoot it again to see the difference.
I dont think its going to be a big difference, Jeff Hoffman did alot of testing at Black hills on the ramshot powders and the Temp stability is good when compared to other ball powders.
Do you think there will be a big variance between winter and summer temps? Going to have to look for a solid alternative as H1000 seems to be dried up for the moment.
There are tests out there on the internet with the temp stability of ramshot. They tested from -40 to +140 and saw a 2 or 3% swing in velocities over those temp ranges. Assuming 3080 and 3% that's 92 fps over a 180 degree temp swing. 2% is 62. Scale it down to practical conditions and it is fairly temp stable.
My reamer arrived from PTG today!!! I'm about 6 weeks away from a completed build now.
I see it's a race to be the first with a Savage SSSS, I received a reamer too
So. Freakin. Happy. Got my 6.5 SAUM from GAP today! Now all I need is some decent weather to go shooting. I'm thinking a mil/mil NF 2.5-10x42 for glass - opinions?
Specs:
Templar V2 lefty
Manners T
Rem trigger
Bartlein #3 w/ 1-8.7 twist finished at 24"
Vias brake
APA bottom metal
2 accurate mag 300 WSM mags
8 3/4 lbs (rifle only)
Specs:
Templar V2 lefty
Manners T
Rem trigger
Bartlein #3 w/ 1-8.7 twist finished at 24"
Vias brake
APA bottom metal
2 accurate mag 300 WSM mags
8 3/4 lbs (rifle only)
Attachments
Guys and Gals,
I have 6 sets (when they are gone they are gone) of 6.5/300 SAUM dies. This is a Redding custom standard 2 die set. There is a 6.5/300 seater and a FL size die. The die sizes the neck to .298". I MUST BE CLEAR THESE DO NOT SIZE TURNED NECKS, But they are the tits for making your own brass. These are completely different than the die sets we sell for the turned brass.
These are $165 shipped and can be found here.....First come first serve.
6.5/300 SAUM Dies - $165.00 : Copper Creek Cartridge Co.
Add one of these VLD seating stems from Sinclair and you have micrometer adjustment on the seating die....Part # 749-012-722WS
REDDING VLD BULLET SEATING MICROMETERS | Sinclair Intl
Thanks all!
I have 6 sets (when they are gone they are gone) of 6.5/300 SAUM dies. This is a Redding custom standard 2 die set. There is a 6.5/300 seater and a FL size die. The die sizes the neck to .298". I MUST BE CLEAR THESE DO NOT SIZE TURNED NECKS, But they are the tits for making your own brass. These are completely different than the die sets we sell for the turned brass.
These are $165 shipped and can be found here.....First come first serve.
6.5/300 SAUM Dies - $165.00 : Copper Creek Cartridge Co.
Add one of these VLD seating stems from Sinclair and you have micrometer adjustment on the seating die....Part # 749-012-722WS
REDDING VLD BULLET SEATING MICROMETERS | Sinclair Intl
Thanks all!
Attachments
Lol, not gonna argue with that! I haven't been this excited about a rifle since my last GAP! If this things shoots as sexy as it looks it's going to be a screamer.
It flipped right side up when I clicked on it?!?!?!?! Very nice no matter how you look at it!
Got my 6.5 Saum put together. I really like this gun. Weighs 11lbs as you see it in this picture
<a href="http://imgur.com/DrLJllK"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/DrLJllK.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
Here is a picture with the Wiebad pump pillow and mounted on a Monfrotto. This rifles CG is right where it mounts on the tripod so it balances perfectly.
<a href="http://imgur.com/BnfNarN"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/BnfNarN.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
3 shot .180" group at 100 yards 61 grains Retumbo, 140 Amax, neck turned 300 Saum brass from the Atlas bipod
<a href="http://imgur.com/dx9do3s"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/dx9do3s.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
Rifle specs:
Alpine Gunworks Chassis
Defiance Deviant action, ported for the wsm and saum cartridges
24" bartlein 1:8.7 twist, #5 Krieger contour
Mini Muscle Brake
Nightforce 5.5-22X50
Angle cosine indicator
David Tubbs level
Accurate Mag WSM magazine
Atlas Bipod
<a href="http://imgur.com/DrLJllK"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/DrLJllK.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
Here is a picture with the Wiebad pump pillow and mounted on a Monfrotto. This rifles CG is right where it mounts on the tripod so it balances perfectly.
<a href="http://imgur.com/BnfNarN"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/BnfNarN.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
3 shot .180" group at 100 yards 61 grains Retumbo, 140 Amax, neck turned 300 Saum brass from the Atlas bipod
<a href="http://imgur.com/dx9do3s"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/dx9do3s.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
Rifle specs:
Alpine Gunworks Chassis
Defiance Deviant action, ported for the wsm and saum cartridges
24" bartlein 1:8.7 twist, #5 Krieger contour
Mini Muscle Brake
Nightforce 5.5-22X50
Angle cosine indicator
David Tubbs level
Accurate Mag WSM magazine
Atlas Bipod
I've read this whole thread and reread many of the posts. I'm acquiring parts for a 4 S build. I'd like to go DBM but I'm thinking that it would be easier to track down a stock, get the build going, and do load development prior to mid september mule deer by going factory BDL. I am able to get a donor Rem 700 SPS with BDL in 300 WSM or 300 SAUM. My concern is how the 4 S will feed through the factory BDL? Anyone know what the factory Remington mag box measures in the WSM or SAUM rifles? Or..... does anyone have a line on a Manners EH or SL cut for DBM? Thanks.
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Advice please.
I have been shooting my Xtreme Hunter for a couple months now and love it. Now I have a chance to buy an Armalite AR10 in a 300 RSAUM, with the intention of rebarreling it for the 6.5 SAUM, and threading it for suppressed use. I assume the bolt face will be good to go, and that getting a new barrel reamed for the 6.5 SAUM 4S is doable. What are the chances that the loads I am using in the bolt gun (130 Gr. VLD's) will clear/feed from the stock Armalite mag? How long would the AR barrel need to be to perform well in this cartridge, and what twist rate should I be looking for? Are the lower pressures of this cartridge going to create a gas issue? Or am I trying to push a square peg through a round hole?
I have been shooting my Xtreme Hunter for a couple months now and love it. Now I have a chance to buy an Armalite AR10 in a 300 RSAUM, with the intention of rebarreling it for the 6.5 SAUM, and threading it for suppressed use. I assume the bolt face will be good to go, and that getting a new barrel reamed for the 6.5 SAUM 4S is doable. What are the chances that the loads I am using in the bolt gun (130 Gr. VLD's) will clear/feed from the stock Armalite mag? How long would the AR barrel need to be to perform well in this cartridge, and what twist rate should I be looking for? Are the lower pressures of this cartridge going to create a gas issue? Or am I trying to push a square peg through a round hole?
Papa I saw your rifle today. Looks pretty freaking good! Interested to see your write up on it.
Not sure if what I can share can be called "advice" but here is what I have been able to gather:
1. The Armalite factory 300 SAUM "AR-10 (T) Ultra" uses proprietary parts made for the specific requirements of the AMU trials. Armalite will not sell these parts to anyone except owners who broke what came with their genuine factory Ultra Magnums.
2. The parts that are unique appear to be the bolt, extractor, barrel extension, barrel, gas block and gas tube
3. The current Armalite "Gen II" mags allow a COAL of 2.83 and the mag parts (ribs, follower, lips et al) appear to stack and feed SAUM (and likely 4S) rounds correctly if the COAL is respected
4. The bolt on an AR-10 requires about 19,500 psi to unlock, which the 4S load can amply supply. Therefore, what remain are timing (port location) and pressure (port size) tuning. Getting this right is key to reliable cycling. The Achilles heel of the Armalite AR-10 Ultra for the commercial market was that the gas port tuning needed to digest factory "magnum" loads made it somewhat of a one-trick pony. And 308 high BC pills are still not plentiful. An AR-10 tuned to run 4S loads can be configured to get around the first problem, and definitely will NOT have the same second problem.
5. Twist rate is more affected by the need to spin a specific weight pill to a specific RPM so it can stabilize in flight, not so much its operating system being gas or bolt.
6. In the Armalite Ultra, the factory 165gr ammo at 3,075 fps likely ran at over 61,000 psi. This was a lot more than the hottest 308Win which ran at 53,000 psi. Therefore, nearly 20% more gas volume AND gas pressure required not only a different gas block to tame the pressure, but also a gas port closer to the muzzle to lessen the total volume that goes down the gas tube to cycle the bolt. The 4S loads according to GAP being closer in pressure to 308 Win therefore will most likely NOT require the same techniques so needed to tame the Armalite Ultra and in so doing, painted it into the corner.
Therefore, stay tuned. My personal belief is that there may very well be gold in them hills, especially IF AR10 users embrace the benefits of the 4S and will actually pay for uppers that are tuned to make the round sing. My fingers are crossed.
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Gotta love the dope available for the asking on this forum! Thanks a bunch ci11. Just the info I was looking for. I went ahead and bought the rifle on the premise that if the 6.5 mod is not workable, I can return it to factory configuration and keep or sell it that way. It helps a little that I have been able to acquire about 1000 rounds of new 300 RSAUM brass to neck down for the Extreme Hunter, and that should keep the Armalite fueled either way. Please keep me posted if you find more info. I'll do the same.
The bolt gun GAP built in this new caliber is the most enjoyable rifle I have ever owned, and that is why I am looking forward to trying this cartridge on a suppressed AR platform.
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Question: I have Nosler and Norma brass I'm loading up for my 6.5. I thought I read somewhere that Norma brass is softer and has thicker walls which would force me to reduce the overall charge weight. Can I stick with the 61gr of H1000 for the 140 berger and 63gr of H1000 for the 130 berger? Or will I have to lower the charge weight a couple grains?
Nice rifle...really like the T stock, is it the lighter weight, 90% carbon version?
You guys have long lost the race, Ive had mine for about 3-4 weeks now
I have some 130 bergers, 130 jlk's and 13x creitacious or however you spell it
All pointed and looking for some brass now, I keep missing it here on the hide. 
It is. I wanted a rifle I could pack around and was trying to keep the overall weight under 11lbs. With a NF 2.5-10x42 & Seekins rings it should come in right at 10 1/2.
Manners site reads that the Carbon SL stock is approx 27-28 oz and the Manners T is approx 33-35oz
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