New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

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#1
This Is concerning the suggestions made to new members and shooters. Though I am new to the hide I am far from new to LR shooting, I do not claim to know it all nor would i say i dont have anything to learn. Im finding that When some of the new shooters are asking for advice on equipment, most are on a budget. On several occasions when they ask for input on lower cost gear they are told that they shouldnt waste any money at all on an item to hold them over or are not reffered to used equiptment, They are usually told that anything other than the best is junk and will not work. I agree to the buy right buy once theory but, it may take some a year or better to purchase these higher cost items. Fortunately I have the opportunity to use a variety of products in my field before I make a purchase for personal use as many of you do. I Think it would serve some well to remember this is not a popularity contest, it is a way of life...

Getting Small...(Now!)
 
#2
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

This is true for the most part...

But from what I have observed, the problem is that some people come here not wanting to get a practical setup... They are looking for the cheapest setup that will still be considered cool and tactical. But again, this is some, and not most.

As far as advice; I believe everyone that joins this board gets a fair chance to show that they are actually looking to gain something from this site, and the people on here. I have seen a lot of great advice given to new members. Yes, a lot of poor... but the advice is there.

Josh

 
#3
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

While I agree with most of what you're saying, you also have to remember something. A number of people here are real world operators and what does and does not work. They know what will be a help in the field and what will be a headache. If "Member Y" says "Product X" is a POS and you save for something better, that usually means that "Product X" has let him down in the field at a crucial time. It very literally means, "don't throw your money away". I can't tell you how much money I've spent over the years trying to "get it right". When I came here for advice on a product and that product is completely denounced, then I make due until I have enough money to buy something better. It's that simple. I'm at a point in my life that I only want to buy things once, as you say. I have a few creeds that I live by, and I try to adhere to them as best as possible...

If you have to think about it, don't do it...
Gravity ALWAYS wins...
Rust never sleeps...
Own fewer things, but of superior quality...

It's that last one that has saved me a tremendous amount of headache with this hobby of ours.
 
#4
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

So is it your suggestion that we offer up advice on what inexpensive gear to buy? If that is your logic then there is a bit of a problem with it. That inexpensive gear breaks down before you ever could have saved enough money to purchase something worth while. This leads to a waste of funds and frustration. I attend a handful of courses each year and one thing that remains consistant with <span style="font-weight: bold">every </span> course is there are always one or more students that skimp and one something and it rarely makes it past a few hundred rounds before the problems come to a head.

Here is a great example of a guy who purchased a decent rifle, a decent optic and was shooting good match ammo but decided it would be ok to purchase a cheaper set of rings. It was either day one or day two of the course and less than 100 rounds down range when he had to purchase a set of Badgers because the cheaper rings broke. Here are the pics....
DSC00151.jpg


DSC00152.jpg


You don't need the very best and it is not a popularity contest but you make no friends slowing down training by your gear always breaking and having to borrow gear.
 
#5
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

One more point...

When you purchase good gear it rewards you. Either by performing great or when it does break and everything does break the companies that make the gear usually replace it or fix it and little or no cost to you. This has happened to me a number of times. Over the summer I had a blade-tech holster that broke. Often times people will say that blade-tech is just a pricey fobus. At the end of the day blade-tech replaced the broken holster. I have never heard of Fobus doing anything for anyone.

More pics....
100_0166.jpg

The pistol is a Glock 30 and the holster is the UCH. The broken part is the J hook belt attachment.
100_0172.jpg
 
#6
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

Well lets say i was new to the sport i have 2500 3000 bucks to spend, how would some of the seasoned shooters suggest my spending on a rifle, optics, Rings and base? It would be a begginers rig primarily used for paper maybe the occasional organic target.
 
#7
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

Rem700 LTR 308
Badger rings and base
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10 mildot FFP
Harris 6-9 notch/swivel

<span style="font-weight: bold">And that leaves cash left over for ammo and a partial payment on a rifles only PR1 class </span>
 
#8
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem700 LTR 308
Badger rings and base
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10 mildot FFP
Harris 6-9 notch/swivel

<span style="font-weight: bold">And that leaves cash left over for ammo and a partial payment on a rifles only PR1 class </span> </div></div>

And that's on the lighter side of the equation. If you wanted to, with that kind of money, you even get a Nightforce instead of a Leupold. And no, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying used equipment as long as you get it from a good source and you know the goods a re functioning perfectly.
 
#9
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

i think it's safe to say that we have all wasted money on cheap shit.

so IMO, what sets the new guy apart from the guy recomending good stuff is the new guy may not realize how important the difference is.
 
#10
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

First,
This is an expensive hobby. Yes, I said hobby because if your life depends on your gear, then excellent gear is never too expensive.

Used equipment is an excellent option. Especially with the "finer" items that we deal with. I think for new shooters, or shooters on a budget, used should be their first choice at whatever their price point is.

In sailboats and other really expensive hobbies, i.e. cars and planes, there is a "triangle" which at whose corners sits three considerations. Speed, Comfort, and Low Cost. You can have two of the three, but you cannot have all three.

You can do the same with these rifles. You can say Accurate, Rugged or Durable, and low cost. You can have two, but you can't have all three.

So one has to make a decision based on his research in conjunction with his wallet; not on what others say.

Savage, Sightron, Seekins. A nice beginning set up for about $1200. NEW.

 
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#11
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

It seems to me this topic wants to limit shooting to rich folks.
WHY, we need all the shooters we can get. If one cannot aford top of the line equipment, whey should we shun them.

I've seen people do some fine shooting with what many would call junk. Then I've see people with rifles that would break some third world countrys that could hit poop.

Its like that Saturday Night Special BS, they use to spout a while back. Leaving only the rich with the ability to protect themselves. Yeah I agree that some pot metal pistol wont take a heavy dose of shooting, but how many pistols for self protection never get used?

Sorry, if one wants to get into shooting, Go for it, get a surplus mauser and spend what you can afford on ammo and start shooting. Hopefully your lot in life will improve and you can get the top of the line shooters, but dont let any one discourage you from shooting what you can afford. Few of us were born rich (I certainly wasnt). He!!, I've shot many of cast bullets because I couldnt afford .22s even. My first real (my own) gun was a signal barrel 16 gage, and I would skip lunch, spending my 25 cent lunch money buying shells at 3 for a quarter.

We need to enchorage new shooters, rich or poor, young and old.

JMHO and Monday morning rant.
 
#12
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

If you've lurked around long enough B4 posting or read enough threads I think every new guy knows that he/she will be advised to buy higher end kit over any other and that the term " BUDGET" to the seasoned shooters only means you need to save up.
I know not everyone is TRUMP, but when you come to a forum such as this you have to expect that the answers you get may not always be th e ones you want to hear.
You will always ( For the most part at least) get real world experiance from the guys giving advice. And not every piece of kit advised is the highest dollar in that given catagory.

How many SS scopes have been recomended? How many times has more trigger time been advised Vs. purchasing new equipment? The list goes on and on.
YES, you will always have the handfull of people that will tell you that the only good rig is an AW with an S&B shooting factory LAPUA ammo etc..... we know that's not always the case. But don't look for anyone here to adise the purchase of a set of standard Leupold rings and bases.

I lost my train of though.... ope that makes sense... old age is catching up with me
 
#13
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I agree with Rolex. There are many threads with recomendations, for glass for example, at numerous price points with an overlying advice of buy the best glass you can afford. Below 200=Bushnell elite 10X, below 300=SS10X Etc etc... These are scopes that many have had reasonable experience with including myself. My scope battery consists of Bushnell Elite 10X, SS10X, 2 Nikon Tacticals, and a USO SN3. Id say that covers the spectrum pretty well and each has its place. I love my SN3 but that little Bushnell has a place in my heart for covering me and being good enough when my wallet couldnt bare anything else.

Shane
 
#14
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It seems to me this topic wants to limit shooting to rich folks.
WHY, we need all the shooters we can get. If one cannot aford top of the line equipment, whey should we shun them. </div></div>

Not the case. We have many shooters here who have complete sub $1000 set ups and some that don't even have rifles that we engage in very meaningful discussion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've seen people do some fine shooting with what many would call junk. Then I've see people with rifles that would break some third world countrys that could hit poop.</div></div>

Agreed! but does those peole with the "JUNK" crawl on their stomachs, throw their rig into cover as they jump in after it, have the rig handed down from one operator to another on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? Odds are they don't. And you'll find here that most of the guys giving opnions are ALOT moe abusive to their rigs that the average joe. If all you do is take your rig out of the safe, drive down to the local shooting range, shoot at 100yds and hen pack up and go home then "JUNK" may be just the ticket for you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Its like that Saturday Night Special BS, they use to spout a while back. Leaving only the rich with the ability to protect themselves. Yeah I agree that some pot metal pistol wont take a heavy dose of shooting, but how many pistols for self protection never get used?</div></div>
The only response I can give to this is, If your going to defend your life with it make it the best possible piece regardless of price.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sorry, if one wants to get into shooting, Go for it, get a surplus mauser and spend what you can afford on ammo <span style="font-size: 14pt">and start shooting</span> .</div></div>

Your right, there is no replacement for trigger time! And no kit expensive or not will ever replace experiance!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Hopefully your lot in life will improve and you can get the top of the line shooters, but dont let any one discourage you from shooting what you can afford. Few of us were born rich (I certainly wasnt). He!!, I've shot many of cast bullets because I couldnt afford .22s even. My first real (my own) gun was a signal barrel 16 gage, and I would skip lunch, spending my 25 cent lunch money buying shells at 3 for a quarter.</div></div>

I don't think "WE" discriminate on the basis of $$$ and we do encourage all to get out and shoot. But when a question is posed as broad as " What is teh best rifle to get" or as specific as " What is the best optic to get for $369.85" Expect the answers to be all across the board and it is your job as the poster to sift through all th einfo given to make sense of it. No one is going to "hold your hand" and tell you exactly what to buy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
We need to enchorage new shooters, rich or poor, young and old.</div></div>

Yes, Yes and yes. I agree.
BUT... AND PLEASE DON'T THINK I'M AN ASSHOLE FOR SAYING IT BUT I FEEL IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.

This is Sniper's Hide, not Camp Teach Me To Shoot.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
JMHO and Monday morning rant.</div></div>

Rant on brother! I know I just did, now I'm gonna go find me a nice puppy dog to kick and a homeless person to piss on.
<span style="font-size: 20pt"> </span>


<span style="font-size: 26pt">HAPPY HOLLIDAYS</span>
 
#15
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

$ you have dictates what you can get, this is a starting point.

1 SKS or 10/22 , when you can upgrade (don't get rid of the 10/22 + ammo)
2 AK (you have working knowledge, + maybe ammo from SKS)
3 AR type or if your like me and like the 308 a FNL1A1 (at that point it was cheaper than AR)
4 Nicer optics, more mags, more ammo
5 Accurate Bolt gun, + time behind it
6 At this point you have a good working knowledge of what you need,( what you want is different)
 
#16
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

It also depends what your going to do with it. Tactical stuff where it is going to be dragged maybe bumped or dropped. Is it going from a car to a bench for shooting on a weekend.

Fir $2500 to 3K you might be able to pick up a GAP rifle in the Exchange forum. Savage is making good rifles also including their F-class and F/TR along with the 10FP.

I will say one thing DO NOT skimp on a scope. I find you want up to a 10 power and then get out and realize for the extra money the 14-18 power would have been more worth while. Seekins rings are top notch and a decent price.

I have gone through some moderate price and low price stuff and have had to replace it sooner or later. Better to wait the extra couple of months and save a little more for some better made stuff.

Rem200308 not showing any disrespect, but I would like to know what you would recommend to a new buyer. In reality I might find it helpful in my buying of products.
 
#17
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

People that skimp on important gear are not serious. Plain and simple.

This website is "For the serious Tactical Marksman".

If you cannot afford a decent setup, buy an accurate bolt action .22lr and shoot the piss out of it while you are saving for a decent setup.

Decent setup being:
Brand X rifle with varmint barrel capable of repeatable sub moa.
Brand X scope that repeats zero with target knobs and parallax adjustment.
Brand X rings and base that hold zero under moderate conditions.
Brand X ammo capable of MOA out to effective range of chambering.
Adequate cleaning kit.

Regardless of price, if you are not confident in the set up, you more than likely will shoot less than your expectations.



You can't polish a turd.


 
#18
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1sikpupi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i think it's safe to say that we have all wasted money on cheap shit.

. </div></div>

Im a walking breathing example of this,Ive had Tasco,Simmons,Bushnell,Barska and Leapers scopes on my one Savage and they have all failed at one point or another,thats why Im getting a USO,basically because of the recommendations in this forum and my own research.I also firmly believe in a good base and rings.I have shamed my BO 20 MOA base and TPS rings with the aforementioned scopes,only because the scopes did not work out.

I kinda agree with you Rem but we have advice from actual pros,people who who live think and drink this stuff and for them to recommend a cheap product is a no can do,it goes against their training and experience but you can find cheaper alternatives to great glass but those can be expensive them selves.

I have limitied experience in LR shooting but Im glad their there are some real feild ops here giving some great advice.Any advise is welcome though.

I dont think there is a big macho bravado from these guys either,it's not like your asking "What kind of oil should I put in my Honda" to a Ferrari owner,cause Honda is actually a good car but more like asking "What kind of oil do I put in my Yugo" that would put most people off.
 
#19
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

my first rifle was the typical remington 700p with the leupold mark 4 scope. shoots fine, but i want more out of my rifle and scope. my next rifle is fully custom and costs more than twice of my current set up.

if i would have known what i know now, i would have gotten straight to a custom rifle. i think it actually saves money on the long run doing it right on the first time, then upgrading this and that, plus all the depreciation of reselling your old stuff.

getting down the proper foundations of precision shooting took about 1k rounds for me plus alot of reading.

 
#20
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cowboy_bravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rem700 LTR 308
Badger rings and base
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10 mildot FFP
Harris 6-9 notch/swivel

<span style="font-weight: bold">And that leaves cash left over for ammo and a partial payment on a rifles only PR1 class </span> </div></div>

hit the nail on the head. 700p or LTR.
 
#21
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I've seen people do some fine shooting with what many would call junk.
</div></div>

Exactly,my freinds father has an old Remington 700(not a peice of junk but old and tattered)and a very inexpensive Tasco scope on it,it cost him all of 20 bucks but a 100 yds which he says is plenty of reach for him in NW FL he can make holes touch.All he says he does is"Whadever I put dem crosshairs on I can make for supper tonight".
cool.gif
 
#22
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pistolpete75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my first rifle was the typical remington 700p with the leupold mark 4 scope. shoots fine, but i want more out of my rifle and scope. my next rifle is fully custom and costs more than twice of my current set up.

if i would have known what i know now, i would have gotten straight to a custom rifle. i think it actually saves money on the long run doing it right on the first time, then upgrading this and that, plus all the depreciation of reselling your old stuff.

getting down the proper foundations of precision shooting took about 1k rounds for me plus alot of reading.

</div></div>
I agree with you; for what I know now I wish I would have just gone with a custom rifle; I started with a 700 SS 5R milspec and a Leupy Mark 4 scope as well(very similar to you). However, I have to admit that I'm learning a lot from shooting this myself and realizing how far this can take me and what a fully custom rifle will be able to do differently, so I think although I may wish it, the experience and the realizations I've gotten by actually 'doing it myself' rather than just reading about it has been extremely valuable. I don't think you can really put a cost or price on first-hand knowledge and experience. I think it's almost better to buy "cheaper" and then work yourself up to the more quality, expensive stuff because you know what you're looking for, to fit YOU the best. My 2 cents.
 
#24
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I started off with a Remington 700VS with nasty old leupold mounts and a 3.5x10 Leupold. Had under $1000 in it when I was done. Everyone told me the Leupold mounts were junk but I needed the rear adjustments so I could center the scope for windage. So I did what the Marines did I set it where it needed to be and had it tig welded in place both front and rear for $15.

I still have that mount on my rifle and its on its 4th barrel and still going strong. I have competed in tactical matches with it over hill an dale. However if my rifle is going to hit the ground you can be damn sure my body will "Try" to be under it. I take care of my guns and shoot the hell out of them but I don't abuse them unecessarly either.

We buy what we can afford. I have 4 custom rifles now and I haven't won any more matches than I did with the old original VS go figure!! Maybe I need one of them new S&Bs and a AI........
 
#25
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?


Rem200308 not showing any disrespect, but I would like to know what you would recommend to a new buyer. In reality I might find it helpful in my buying of products.

None Taken...

Remington 700 LTR or
Remington 700 SPS or
Savage 10fp
Leo Mk4 tactical or
Millet Trs 1
harris or rockmount Bi-pod
Millet Or Badger base and rings
And of course a quick cuff sling or whatever feels comfortable
data book
ammo
And Some Instruction time...
 
#26
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I guess really what it would boil down to is a civilian asking what would be the best Uso or S&b scope and somone replying dont waste your money Just Join the Marines Unless its truely Fined tuned By the USMC Armory Built to Exact Mil Spec Standards its not worth wasting the money on...

This Only My Opinion
and is no way saying that anyone in the Corps has said this.
 
#27
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

For me, it's not about cheap, or expensive. It's about what it takes to get the job done. Since "getting the job done" in HP and LR Service Rifle shooting is about skill rather than equipment, I guess you could say, regarding the equipment need, it just is what it is. If you want to play, you get what's necessary.

What I think is interesting here is that ignorant new shooters actually think they can win in HP, or LR with the right equipment. Their mind-set begins and ends with shooting groups off the benchrest, clueless to what knowing how to shoot is really all about, that's to say, they don't know the fundamentals. All they think that there's to know is the firing task, aim and pull the trigger.
 
#28
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For me, it's not about cheap, or expensive. It's about what it takes to get the job done. Since "getting the job done" in HP and LR Service Rifle shooting is about skill rather than equipment, I guess you could say, regarding the equipment need, it just is what it is. If you want to play, you get what's necessary.

What I think is interesting here is that ignorant new shooters actually think they can win in HP, or LR with the right equipment. Their mind-set begins and ends with shooting groups off the benchrest, clueless to what knowing how to shoot is really all about, that's to say, they don't know the fundamentals. All they think that there's to know is the firing task, aim and pull the trigger. </div></div>

Very Well Said...
 
#29
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I've been contemplating putting together a beginner's package, a complete rifle, set up with a 100 yard zero right out of the box. Here are the components:

- AICS 1.5 w/ 1 mag, some color selection
- Remmy 700 SPS Tactical action, barrel, and trigger - 20"
- Seekins 20 MOA base and rings
- Super Sniper scope, choice of power

Options: Power of scope, AICS stock, MAYBE a soft case, Harris bipod with pod loc, choice of 6-9 or 9-13 swivel notched leg.

I think I can do the basic package for like $1900 shipped CONUS. The thing that troubles me is how poorly rifle/scope package deals sell on this site. I don't want to have the coin wrapped up in the scopes and rings/base and have people going after the rifle only. The options would be sold at basically a pass-thru rate, just to complete the package so they have a shooter when it comes out of the box.

While I would not be doing this for no profit, I'd be doing it for little profit and basically just trying to leverage my capital in a fashion that will put a good package in the hands of a shooter in less than a week that is wanting to get a rifle and start shooting NOW. The only throw-away component (not 100% top shelf) is the barrel in all this.

Thoughts/comments appreciated.
 
#30
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

Gonna shoot it for them too?

I think a shooter needs to put his own kit together just to get his hands dirty assembling it and getting familiar with his equipent. Gonna play tech suport when someone calls cause their scope isnt "level", how bout when it's time to clean... onna put a Shooters Cleanng Package" together.

Not trying to be a prick NH, I know your hearts in the right place. But if we continue to pussify people things will FUBAR sooner than later! Can you imagine being at the range and the guy next to you doesnt even know how to clear a malfunction cause the packed rifle he bought didnt come with directions on how to do it!
 
#31
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

Gonna shoot it for them too?

I think a shooter needs to put his own kit together just to get his hands dirty assembling it and getting familiar with his equipent. Gonna play tech suport when someone calls cause their scope isnt "level", how bout when it's time to clean... onna put a Shooters Cleanng Package" together.

Not trying to be a prick NH, I know your hearts in the right place. But if we continue to pussify people things will FUBAR sooner than later! Can you imagine being at the range and the guy next to you doesnt even know how to clear a malfunction cause the packed rifle he bought didnt come with directions on how to do it!



Not to be a prick Rolex But how can you critique NineHotel when just 4 days ago You were trying to buy a complete kit... How does that go "pussified" or do you only need to build one ?
Heres the thread
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=34558&Number=371268#Post371268
 
#34
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I came here looking for a cheap way to get into the LR stuff. I had my dream rifle, a M700PSS in 308, and a Tasco scope with crappy rings in hand. I was told to find a better scope,and directed toward a USO. Damn, MotherF**ker! Those puppies are expensive. Well I told my wife what I wanted, made the promise to dine on only the best Ramen, and started to try to find a way. I got an offer I couldn't refuse. I started to save for a good stock. Got another offer. I ain't saying this doesn't happen to everyone, but there are a ton of super people on this site who will help a guy out, IF he is dedicated to shooting.
Work, MY place in the country, and not having much time has only permitted me to compete a couple times in the last few years. I have gained tons of knowledge, and made myself a lot better shooter by doing what I have learned here. Learn it, Apply it, Do it again.
I will say this: You buy cheap equipment to 'look cool', well, you get what you deserve. You buy the good stuff, eat a little Ramen, and you will experience only the best of times while shooting, and gain the reward of knowing that YOU are the only problem with sloppy groups
wink.gif

Get the good stuff...even if it means a steady diet of the best Ramen
 
#35
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gonna shoot it for them too?




Not to be a prick Rolex But how can you critique NineHotel when just 4 days ago You were trying to buy a complete kit... How does that go "pussified" or do you only need to build one ?
Heres the thread
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...1268#Post371268
</div></div>

Since it's pertinent to the topic. simple economics.
I could get the AICS I need for my 40x build, a beater scope, a barreled action with triger to put in another action stock and gve my broher, bipod and rings and bases as extra for far less than if I had bought it all new.

So seeing as your keeping tabs on my posts, what else have I been looking to buy and use. Since you know what i'm doing with everything maybe you can hep me find that HK MK 23
 
#36
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

And another thing, I've put together my rigs in the past. I know what each individual piece brings to the table. without bringing NH into this banter, here is his purpose for the builds:

I've been contemplating putting together a beginner's package, a complete rifle, set up with a 100 yard zero right out of the box.

I am not a beginer,although I am no expert I understand what and why each piece should be used/not used.
Like the bible says, give someone a fish feed them for a day, teach someone to buid a rifle and they know how to get whatever they want.

Beginers should be putting their own rifles together, it buildexperiance
 
#37
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I started in LR with a Winchester M70 HBV, used, Badger base and rings, and a Leupold 3.5-10X40M3 with a Gen II mildot reticle. Harris S-BRM bipod, standard service-rifle leather sling, and an Eagle stock pack. Less than 2 grand total. I bought those components after doing research here and on a similar web site.

It shot 3/4 MOA out of the box, and still is - I ran the O-course with it the day after the Fall Shooter's Bash. And I like that rifle so much, I acquired a duplicate of it.

It could have been done with a Remington rifle, too.

Once convinced I was going to stay in this for the long term, I upgraded to more expensive equipment - but I'd have been fine learning to shoot on that initial purchase for at least another year, during which time I was spending my money on training and ammo.

We had a guy down here last week for PRI/II who had a stock PSS, with a second-focal plane Leupold scope - good basic gear - and very little experience. He shot very well with it, too.

Now he has some skills and some appreciation for the other gear he saw here - but the skills are the most important part.

Doing this is expensive, but it doesn't have to be <span style="font-weight: bold">horrendously</span> expensive. I'd encourage anyone starting out to get one good basic setup, and spend the rest of your money on training and ammo.

 
#38
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

Lowlex, I think you are right for some sub-set. I also think another sub-set of users would like a turnkey, quality setup for under $2k that is an alternative to the 700P. This would give them that.
 
#39
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I'm on board NH. When i see the word beginer i think of someone who has never turned the bolt on a rifle. YES, I could definatley see the benefit of this to those above beginner status. And as pointed out, maybe a 2 or 3 stock options would be better.
 
#40
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

What the new guy cant afford a 3000+ rifle a 2500+ scope 400 dollars wort of gear 1200 for a class including lodging and travel 500 in ammo for the class???? The problem with this website is it introduces you to the best crap out there and then once you use it or see it in person you dont want anything else. I could never now just go into a gun store and buy an off the shelf rifle and just use it. Some things are better left unknown. If you never knew what existed you would nevr want it. Ill bet there are alot of guys on this website that own 5000 dollar rifles and have never shot them past 100 yards or even know how to use the 2700 dollar SB scope. I see it all the time on here with buyers remorse, just look in the for sale section. Most people are 3 paychecks away from bankruptcy and are buying 5000 dollar rifles. I just dont get it.

Rich
 
#41
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

Here's a few thoughts.

A GAP, Patriot, KMW, Hateca rifle will cost about 2800 to 3000. A USO / S&B will cost around $2000 to $2800. You'll have spent around $5400.

You new guys want to know how to win at matches?

Get a stock LTR, Win. HBV, PSS, 10FP, with a good set of Badger or Seekins rings and bases and a Leupold 3.5-10, or equivalent glass, a Harris BRM-S bipod, a TIS sling of your choice. You'll have about $1600 to 1900 or so.

If your rifle is a CONSISTENT .75 to 1 MOA shooter DON'T mess with it.

$5400 - $1800 = $3600 that you have extra over the guy who just bought a top of the line GAP/Patriot/KMW/Hateca rifle / scope.

Take that $3600 and Call Jacob Bynum down at Rifles Only. Buy a plane ticket to Kingsville, Texas. Rent a car and drive to Rifles Only. Take a PR1 and PR2 class from Jacob, Lindy, or Frank, it doesn't matter who it is that teaches down there, you'll have first class instruction. You'll have spent on the two classes about $1900. Say two cases of ammo at about $1000

After 10 days of instruction at RO, you'll have spent about all your $3600, but you'll now be years ahead on the precision rifle learning curve, than if you'd tried to learn everything you just did, on your own.

You'll also have the tools in your think box of tricks to train yourself, because "successful application of the precision rifle involves a lot more about thinking than it does shooting" I forget who said that, someone pretty smart I think.
 
#42
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

One more thing it does take half a brain to play this game. Buy a book join atleast a 600 yard range and get some practical experience. Read the manual that came with the SB scope. One more valuable piece of information, dont ask the gunsmith what the diffrence is between a 22 and 24 inch barrel on a 308. I gaurantee you wont like the answer.

Rich
 
#45
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

I still say it don't take money to get started. I knew an old boy that was given a Sweedish mauser, I loaned him my 6.5 dies, He barrowed some Olympia sights off a NG H&R 5200. Put them on his self. Yeah he shot before, a few matches using the CMP Clubs M1s and M1As. He did ok at offhand, screwed up the rapid fire (first time using a bolt gun in HP) but shot a 196 at 600.

If a guy wants to shoot, don't discourage him by saying he needs high dollar equipment.
 
#47
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the same basic idea, except in "kit" form, without the SPS Tactical?

That way the buyer can find his own best-deal on the barreled action and you don't have to mess with the FFL part of it?

Mike </div></div>

Interesting idea, Mike, cuz all I was gonna do was pop it out of the stock, bolt it in the AICS, and ebay the bottom metal.

However, part of the advantage to my original idea is it is all screwed together correctly with the ring and base screws nail polished and torqued correctly plus a zero on the rifle, literally ready to fire with Fed GMM.
 
#48
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

This is a great topic for new members. Where the experienced experts really help is in sorting out the trade-off. What you can get and what you will give up for a particular budget. Very useful information.
 
#49
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great topic for new members. Where the experienced experts really help is in sorting out the trade-off. What you can get and what you will give up for a particular budget. Very useful information. </div></div>

Whoa you really dug deep to bring this thread back to life!
 
#50
Re: New Guys/ Tired Of Hearing This?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great topic for new members. Where the experienced experts really help is in sorting out the trade-off. What you can get and what you will give up for a particular budget. Very useful information. </div></div>

Whoa you really dug deep to bring this thread back to life! </div></div>

Almost four years to the day.
 
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