Gunsmithing New Haas VF2 or should I look at used machines for new shop

[persistant7500]

I am in the process of setting up a new CNC Machine shop in AZ. I have been looking at the Haas machines as they are what I was trained on in school but I am not sure if they are the best bang for my invested dollar. For those of you who have experience on multiple manufactures of machines what is your opinion on where you would sink your life savings, new Haas or used - give me your ideas. For what it's worth I am continuing my training and pursuing an engineering degree but want to get started now that I have a pretty good grasp of cnc processes and programing. Thank you in advance Jeff

 

[persistant7500]

holy crap did I lose post count, oh well I don't sell I buy anyway.

 

[Gorax]

I've practically lived between Haas and solidworks/solidcam for the past 12 years. We have had other machines such as okuma, mori seki etc. The Hass mills are the only ones to run day in, day out zero problems for that time. I'd never give a cent to okuma ever again, worst money spent in my life.

Also being Haas is American, where anything else is going to be imported, I think you'd be crazy to look at anything else.

 

[coues103]

i work in a shop in az that uses mostly haas equipment you would be more than welcome to come by and see them in action sometime and ask all the questions you want

 

[f4bones]

Buy new - we have 10 HAAS machines, and when I bought my first one, I looked at the used market - there really wasn't a substantial difference in price between machines that were 2 or 3 year old compared to new ones. New ones have a warranty, and also are very easy to finance at very low interest rates. Banks love to lend on these as they really don't depreciate that fast, and there is an active secondary market for them - they have very little risk. When you do buy, make sure you get the Reneshaw probing system - essential in my book. Also, I would strongly recommend a 12K spindle if you can afford it, and of course through spindle coolant - a very cool feature.

 

[persistant7500]

looks like I will have to see what kind of deal I can get from Ellison and get one ordered. I hope I can be up a running withing a month or so. Jeff

 

[pyrofx]

I would go used . Look at all the auctions out there . A lot of machines with low hours. Contact the local Haas dealer and talk to the guys that do the schooling and setup. I just got quoted 95k for a vf3 with a couple options , no tooling. Used I can find good 3 to 5 year old units for 35 k .

Leaves a lot to buy tooling . Then get the Haas guys to take a look before you buy it . They are hungry and a few hundred bucks is worth piece of mind before buying !


Greg

 

[csdilligaf]

I bought one haas new and the other one used from KD Capital out in Pheonix. I got a good price on the used one from them and very happy. If you buy used try to stay within a 3-4 yrs of new. You can find a very pampered one if you wait or just pull the trigger on a new one and know what your getting. To me it seems the used prices have climbed in the last 6-9 months with the pick up in work.

 

[trilogymac]

We currently have 6 Haas machines in our shop and have been in business for 17 years. I would buy new. Haas is relatively inexpensive
and have run trouble free for a long time.

As a start up, if you are a job shop and trying to build a reputation, machine reliability is critical to meeting customer delivery. Also, it is like buying a used car, a lot of the time you are buying the last owners problems. Remember, the less time you can spend screwing around with a down machine, the more time you have dedicated to making money.

Hass usually has some pretty good tooling packages available with new purchases and don't forget the 4th axis.

Hope this helps,
Trilogymac

 

[csdilligaf]

Yes I should mention 4th axis is less money if you get it on a new machine. One of mine I had them come out and install the card and it is several hundred more than if I had done it when it came in. You dont have to buy the 4th axis now but get the machine ready for it.

 

[timjoebobbradley]

Don't forget when you buy the machine that is just the starting price. Haas charges for all the little options to be unlocked, and if you buy software that could be another 6k plus annual fees (relatively minor at that point).

and the renishaw probe is extremely nice, just don't break it!

 

[Luvman]

I second all the recommendations for getting the tool probe and the 4th axis drive pre installed.

As much as I love the haas control I don't know if I'd buy one. haas has reputation of being a throw away machine. A reputation their advertising works to debunk. With that being said I have run an older vf3 that did well but it was babied most its life.

When buying a machine tool the best advice I can give is to buy the heaviest weight machine for the size class you're shopping and get all the control options you can afford.

I've had the worst experience with fadals and older Bridgeport CNC,s are garbage. For high end mills names like makino, matsuura, and mori seiki come to mind. Haas to me is a middle of the road machine. Whatever you buy budget for plenty of tooling!!!!! A fancy cnc without tooling is like a rifle without ammo!!!

 

[persistant7500]

No kidding on the tooling budget, I have been accumulating some as I have been in school so I have at least a basic inventory of end mills, shell mills with inserts, drills. etc.. I have written and tested programs for some of the products I want to bring to market with the machines that the school has as well as I will still be getting more training as I work towards my design engineering degree. I have also been building my own jigs and other work holding devices but am ready to have my own equipment in my shop so I can start getting serious in my off time. Thank you for all the advice so far and if you think I am heading off track them please yell it out, Jeff..................