New here. Bolt action build.

[dormandefense]

Hello all. First post here on my upcoming project.

I'm a long time shooter and builder of shorter range formats including a the 1911, 92fs handguns and 10/22, mini 14, ar15/10 platforms.

I'm completely new to long range marksmanship. I've done plenty of shooting to 250 yards or so with my AR rifles, but I want to bump up to an accurized bolt setup.

I'm not exactly financially blessed. So, this project pretty well means I have to sell some of my other firearms to build this one.

I'll give some specifics on what I'm trying to accomplish:

I'm looking for a gun that can get me started on long range marksmanship. This gun will pretty well be solely for range use from bench rest or prone position shooting.

I'm looking for a gun that I can get into for a fairly inexpensive price but will be a good foundation for building on in the future. What I would like to eventually accomplish is a decent 800 yard grouping once I finish upgrading/accurizing the piece.

For right now I would just like to start practicing around 400 yards to get the hang of skills required for long range shooting.

I'm thinking .308 win for ease in finding the ammo as well as ease in finding people who can train me in reloading it.


All of these options are dynamic and I appreciate any input from knowledgeable persons of membership here. THANKS!!

 

[Curnow26]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Savage! One of these would be a great platform to start with.
10fp

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Nice looking stick for sure. Would you recommend this over a Remmy 700 SPS Varmint .308?

I've heard that 700s can be a little more finicky to work on.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Sounds like you are describing a Savage for sure, then update as funds come in and skills increase and you'll still be competitive. Another big plus is you can do it all yourself.

Welcome to the Hide. The search on here is a good friend. Don't forget to fill in your profile in case someone might be nearby and offer help or to let you check out their equipment to make your choices easier.

Topstrap

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I'm definitely leaning toward the Savage at this point.

I'm hearing many recommendations for the Stevens 200 to start with. Opinions on this?

Also, for whichever Savage I go with... What options should I consider for upgrades within a reasonable cost/performance ratio?

Recommendations on a good glass to start with? I've been impressed with the quality of the redfield scopes as of late.

I've also updated my profile information in the case that someone close by has some hands on help to lend. I apologize for asking questions that probably run through this forum thousands of times, but I'm just asking them in hopes to get the most up to date information for components and upgrades to start with.. as well as using the dedicated thread to ask personalized questions for my specific application rather than resurrecting another thread.

Thanks for all the input so far!

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I'd go with a 700 SPS AAC-SD, lonewolfusmc talks about it here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKODcZfGbL8

Eventually drop it into an AICS chassis with a nice timney 510 trigger and call it a day.

I'd pick up some seekins 30mm low rings and a seekins 20moa rail with a SWFA 10x42 fixed mil/mil scope

Best bang for the buck i can think of.

700 AAC-SD in .308 $600-650
Seekins Rail / Rings $220 total
SWFA 10X42 Fixed mil/mil $300

Just over a thousand for a nice rifle.

Then toss in just shy of another thousand for a AICS 1.5 stock and timney 510 when you can afford to upgrade it.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Also, any opinions on the Ruger American?

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Meh, I'd stick with the 700 or savage

 

[swage]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I'd personally go with the 700. Nothing against the Savage. If you're looking to upgrade it in the future there are more aftermarket options for the Remmy. Outside of that they shoot about the same.

 

[HarryBallz2029]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Sorry I have to disagree with Swage, There are alot of aftermarket parts for the Savage as well as the R700. It really all comes down to prefrence. Personally I would tell you to buy the new Savave 6.5 Creedmoor that Savage came out with. Prolly around $900-1200 depending on where you get it and which model. I know the Academy started selling the 6.5 creedmoor ammo alot here lately. Otherwise I would say run a R700 5R for $1200, the one I shot out of the box was a hell of a shooter.

 

[George63]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dormandefense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, any opinions on the Ruger American? </div></div>

too many reasons to list - for starting out stay with rem or savage

some other things to consider: Rem holds resale better than savage - this in turn means relatively speaking Savage is better bought used, Rem new

out of the box the savage trigger is perfectly usable - most find the Rem trigger not so (it needs work or replacement)

for the use you describe do not over look single shot - lots of folks just single feed anyway - really only an option with savage

if shopping for a used 308 the included stock should trump round count - almost certainly barrel wear will mean little in a 308 and the base model factory stocks are both marginal - with Rem being worse than savage so finding one in a good upgraded stock will be your best option

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I'm a bit of a project kind of guy.

Usually I prefer to start with a base model weapon that I can modify to achieve my eventual goal. I certainly don't want to start with scrap that will still be scrap after sinking money into it, but I usually prefer spending less on the initial weapon and adding money into the pot. I simply can't stand using a weapon as my first of that kind or for that purpose that someone else did all of the work on. I love the feeling that the gun shoots the way it shoots because i got it there.

Building the weapon and doing the research to understand why certain upgrades and smithing will improve the accuracy helps me to feel confident in the weapon i'm using, which in turn helps me feel confident sending bullets downrange with it.

Plus the fact that I just like messing with stuff.

From what I gather about the stevens 200 is that you can pretty well end up with the same rifle as someone with any of the standard savage line. It seems to me that I would eventually want to change some of the same parts on any of the more expensive models.

Would it make sense for me to then purchase a rifle which the parts i'm exchanging and throwing in the "Black hole for factory parts" would cost me less rather than purchasing marginally superior parts that are going to go into the same bin?

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but this is where I seem to be leaning at this point for my first project gun.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I'm definitely agreeing with that opinion at this point. Seems like a bad idea for me to stray from either the savage or remington at this point considering what my goal is.

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0V3RC10CK3D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go with a 700 SPS AAC-SD, lonewolfusmc talks about it here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKODcZfGbL8

Eventually drop it into an AICS chassis with a nice timney 510 trigger and call it a day.

I'd pick up some seekins 30mm low rings and a seekins 20moa rail with a SWFA 10x42 fixed mil/mil scope

Best bang for the buck i can think of.

700 AAC-SD in .308 $600-650
Seekins Rail / Rings $220 total
SWFA 10X42 Fixed mil/mil $300

Just over a thousand for a nice rifle.

Then toss in just shy of another thousand for a AICS 1.5 stock and timney 510 when you can afford to upgrade it. </div></div>

 

[CaptRob]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I would try to find a lightly used Rem 5R in 308 and put a SWFA SS on top.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0V3RC10CK3D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0V3RC10CK3D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go with a 700 SPS AAC-SD, lonewolfusmc talks about it here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKODcZfGbL8

Eventually drop it into an AICS chassis with a nice timney 510 trigger and call it a day.

I'd pick up some seekins 30mm low rings and a seekins 20moa rail with a SWFA 10x42 fixed mil/mil scope

Best bang for the buck i can think of.

700 AAC-SD in .308 $600-650
Seekins Rail / Rings $220 total
SWFA 10X42 Fixed mil/mil $300

Just over a thousand for a nice rifle.

Then toss in just shy of another thousand for a AICS 1.5 stock and timney 510 when you can afford to upgrade it. </div></div>

</div></div>

That sounds like a good way to go and have a decent shooter to begin with. Maybe I can get my hands on a friend with a variety of savage and remmy bolt rifles for me to try out for feel and ergonomics from the factory.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would try to find a lightly used Rem 5R in 308 and put a SWFA SS on top.</div></div>

I was looking around for one a little while back. I can't seem to find many popping up used.

 

[0V3RC10CK3D]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dormandefense</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would try to find a lightly used Rem 5R in 308 and put a SWFA SS on top.</div></div>

I was looking around for one a little while back. I can't seem to find many popping up used. </div></div>

Yea I have one and will be holding onto it. The 1/10 twist of the AAC-sd is really nice though, and the barrel is prethreaded so you can toss on a brake

 

[slowkota]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Whats the price range for you who is "not exactly financially blessed"???

I'm a firm believer in Remington 700's!

I just made a few orders, and they include:

Rem. 700 5R .308= $1,079 shipped
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 w/Z800 reticle= $838 shipped
Harris Bipod and Midway Drag-bag= $168.13 shipped

Plus:
14EYE Butler Creek Flip-Open Eye Cover $8.95
39OBJ Butler Creek Flip-Open Objective Cover $8.95
Burris Xtreme Tactical 1" Rings $52.95
EGW Picatinny Rail 1 Piece Scope Mount $39.95

For $120.42 shipped

So for me... $2,205.55 is my version of "affordable, while not being financially blessed!"

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Guess that would have been helpful information to specify.

Like I said before, I don't really have any extra money. My budget is determined by how many guns I want to sell to make it happen.

I'd say my beginning budget would be between the stevens 200 ($350.00) and the remington 700 sts varmint at $600

all upgrades, work and glass would end up a piece at a time.

 

[George63]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dormandefense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a bit of a project kind of guy.

Plus the fact that I just like messing with stuff.

</div></div>

then just spin one together from the start yourself:

action:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/actions/target/

barrels:

http://criterionbarrels.com/ProductPages/prefits.html

jim briggs/ northland usually has both in stock

stocks - check with jim briggs, he may have some or a ready source, other wise you can order from:

http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/3.html

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dormandefense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a bit of a project kind of guy.

Plus the fact that I just like messing with stuff.

</div></div>

then just spin one together from the start yourself:

action:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/actions/target/

barrels:

http://criterionbarrels.com/ProductPages/prefits.html

jim briggs/ northland usually has both in stock

stocks - check with jim briggs, he may have some or a ready source, other wise you can order from:

http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/3.html</div></div>

Now that looks like a pretty good idea. It was hard to find remington actions separate. This might be the way to go.

 

[George63]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

yeah, but not with the budget you posted while I was putting that together - sent you a PM with another option

 

[slowkota]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Still not seeing a "Build budget"... Only a base rifle price.

No one here can give you an approximate build price based on what you've provided.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking for a gun that I can get into for a fairly inexpensive price but will be a good foundation for building on in the future. What I would like to eventually accomplish is a decent 800 yard grouping once I finish upgrading/accurizing the piece.</div></div>

I'm still recommending a Remington 700 based rifle over a savage... I have no experiance with savage aftermarket, but a couple of buddies do... And it seems that R700 parts have a wider availabilty of in-stock aftermarket items.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=308446936

 

[Nuttshooter]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

DD,

We're you shooting at in Aynor? I got a buddy right there in galivants ferry. You may already know him. His handle on here is Turtlesniper.

I think that he could help you out with your journey and he always finds guns at GREAT deals.

We are both Remington guys so sorry no savages.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I think the Stevens is a good donor action upon which to build, but there's a reason why they are cheaper. They represent the basic bare bones original savage 10/110 action, and a lot of improvement has been achieved since then. Unless you understand the parts compatibility differences fairly well, it would probably pay to start current, and to keep it stock.

A Savage 10FP is where I started and I don't see any problems with that approach. I've had others, including R700 VLS and Ruger KM77VT MKII and they all pleased me, but as a bang for buck proposition, I'd suggest the 10FP. Really, with today's factory Varmint rifles, I think the performance playing field s pretty level, and the prices make up the main differences.

Buying a used rifle is not out of the question. Barrel throats and crowns are critical to best performance.

Greg

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the Stevens is a good donor action upon which to build, but there's a reason why they are cheaper. They represent the basic bare bones original savage 10/110 action, and a lot of improvement has been achieved since then. Unless you understand the parts compatibility differences fairly well, it would probably pay to start current, and to keep it stock.

A Savage 10FP is where I started and I don't see any problems with that approach. I've and others, including R700 VLS and Ruger KM77VT MKII, but as a bang for buck proposition, I'd suggest the 10FP. Really, with today's factory Varmint rifles, I think the performance playing field s pretty level, and the prices make up the main differences.

Buying a used rifle is not out of the question. Barrel throats and crowns are critical to best performance.

Greg</div></div>

Greg,

The only difference between a current Stevens 200 and and a current Savage 10FP action is the trigger and bolt handle

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Well, if that's so, then I'm behind the times; and that's entirely possible.

Greg

 

[Graham]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

There's no point building on a Savage action. If you want to build, do it on a R700, at minimum. That way the rifle you build will be worth most of what you spent on it, and the action won't be the one part used that brings down its resale value.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nuttshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DD,

We're you shooting at in Aynor? I got a buddy right there in galivants ferry. You may already know him. His handle on here is Turtlesniper.

I think that he could help you out with your journey and he always finds guns at GREAT deals.

We are both Remington guys so sorry no savages. </div></div>

I'm near midland elementary on hwy 1115. So, galivants ferry. I've got my own small handgun and short range rifle range and I've been shooting about 250 yards at a place near 701 and 22.

I'm certainly not stuck on the savages. I've always been a fan of the 700, with what little experience I have anyway. I like the idea of how long its been around and how often its been adopted by military and law enforcement for dmr purposes.

Turtle sniper sounds familiar. I think I might have played cod. With him if nothing else.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slowkota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Still not seeing a "Build budget"... Only a base rifle price.

No one here can give you an approximate build price based on what you've provided.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking for a gun that I can get into for a fairly inexpensive price but will be a good foundation for building on in the future. What I would like to eventually accomplish is a decent 800 yard grouping once I finish upgrading/accurizing the piece.</div></div>

I'm still recommending a Remington 700 based rifle over a savage... I have no experiance with savage aftermarket, but a couple of buddies do... And it seems that R700 parts have a wider availabilty of in-stock aftermarket items.
</div></div>

I don't really have a total build budget. I'm really just trying to get a starting point right now and I can buy other pieces at a time when I can afford them individually.

For instance, my first 1911 build was a 500 dollar gun. It was a 1200 dollar gun when I finished a year later.

I don't really care about resale value much. I almost always keep my first build of any type weapon.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's no point building on a Savage action. If you want to build, do it on a R700, at minimum. That way the rifle you build will be worth most of what you spent on it, and the action won't be the one part used that brings down its resale value. </div></div>

Holding value is great, but its not a big concern for me as I rarely sell my first build of something.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

[/quote]

Greg,

The only difference between a current Stevens 200 and and a current Savage 10FP action is the trigger and bolt handle[/quote]

So, if I'm planning to eventually upgrade everything but the main receiver parts I'd end up with the same rifle as if I'd started with a 10fp?

 

[Nuttshooter]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

DD,

Turtlesniper lives at on Pee Dee Hwy. He has a nice 450 yards to shoot.

If you get up with him you can shoot an array of guns. I am currently in Africa but he has my bolt guns for safe keeping.

My guns are a R700 built by GAP in a AICS, and then my AIAW both in .308.

Turtle has a Badger2008 built by GAP in a AICS. So there is some of every thing there. Just not savage.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

That would be a great place to start.

Having some hands on with some well set up rifles would give me ideas of what I'm aiming to accomplish.

 

[Boss334OP]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Not too long ago I was in the same position and ended up settling on the Rem. 700 AAC-SD and haven't had any regrets. It has been a great starter rifle and is the only rifle that I haven't considered selling to fund other projects. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dormandefense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[/quote]

Greg,

The only difference between a current Stevens 200 and and a current Savage 10FP action is the trigger and bolt handle</div></div>

So, if I'm planning to eventually upgrade everything but the main receiver parts I'd end up with the same rifle as if I'd started with a 10fp?[/quote]

yes

 

[[email protected]]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Remington 700 is the best rifle for its price. It comes with a cheap scope and stock but that can be fixed. New/ better optics will be needed for longer range. The military uses i fixed 10 power scope that i also like. If you are to reload then you can experiment with different loads and see which one you like best. Remember everyone has different prefferences on loads, twist rates, calibers and etc.. Buy a gun you like personally. Me, I prefer the remington 700

 

[Nisils14]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

700s are great to start with. You'll have options with aftermarket parts and just about any gunsmith will work on one. A SPS Varmint would be a good starter rifle. Throw on a good scope on a good set of rings and base, get a decent bipod, buy different kinds of ammo and see what it shoots best. Get used to the weapon and from there you can upgrade accordingly to whatever you like.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

It definitely looks like a majority for the 700. That's initially where I was heading, but I hear the term "any gunsmith will work on them". That's awesome, but I don't really want that. I want to work on it myself. No gunsmith involved.

I'm still leaning the way of the 700, but I'm still interested in the fact that Savage rifles seem to be made in a way that they can be altered and upgraded without the experience of a trained gunsmith in that platform.

I don't seem to see a shortage of parts available for the savage either.

 

[ColbyLang]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

I was just in the same boat as the OP in January. I wanted a custom long range hunting/tactical rig. I started with a lightly used Remington 700 in a youth model. The length of the stock didn't matter to me because I was going with a Manners stock. I sent an email to APA to figure out what my cost would be "upgrading" the rifle. As everyone has stated, R700's have tons of add ons available easily. We made a few key changes, including the barrel and my rifle is now 100% complete.

I went a little above what you are looking to spend (not counting glass). BUT, the nice part is that I put down 40% and had 9 months to save up the other 60% so I was able to get a nicer gun. My gun should arrive late this week, and I can't wait to shoot it!!

 

[George63]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

OK, if your plans hold true to keep this for 30 years this is what the savage enables you to do the the remington does not:

order quality prefit barrels to swap cartridges with the same boltface/action size or replace a worn barrel for about 340 + or - ( after you purchase the tools/gages barrel swaps are do it yourself)

for the Rem a quality barrel swap is 480 + or - and requires a trip to the gunsmith ( it may be an extended stay )

the first swap is break even after that you are money ahead with the savage - about the only other advantage is you can usually come into a savage action 100 -150 cheaper than a Rem action

 

[HarryBallz2029]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dormandefense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess that would have been helpful information to specify.

Like I said before, I don't really have any extra money. My budget is determined by how many guns I want to sell to make it happen.

I'd say my beginning budget would be between the stevens 200 ($350.00) and the remington 700 sts varmint at $600

all upgrades, work and glass would end up a piece at a time.

</div></div>
If $600 is your budget for the rifle alone I would definatly jump on the R700 AAC-SD 20" .308 that was my first bolt gun. Great setup for a beginner. Already threaded for a brake or can, a little truing down the road and maybe a shilen or kreiger and a AICS or Manners and you will have a nice rifle

As someone else posted the AAC + SWFA SS 10x42 would be a great beginner combo for sure.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Does anyone know why this rifle is so much less expensive than the sps models?

http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_298217_-1?Ntt=.308&Ntk=All

 

[mountainman308]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

For a good start into long range, grab a new Remington 700 with a heavy profile barrel, a Badger 20 MOA mount, good rings (I prefer nightforce) and a SWFA SS 20x scope. The whole rig costs a touch over 1K and you will have a dead accurate rig as long as you can deliver your half of the bargan.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the sps and the Adl?

 

[Nuttshooter]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

ADL does not have the hinged floor plate.

 

[dormandefense]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

With a new stock, would it be just as easy to install a removable magazine?

 

[Seekers]

Re: New here. Bolt action build.

Most of the DBM systems require the removal of material around the mag area with a mill. I've seen gunsmiths charging $100 and up, except for CDI who charges $60 if you purchase his BM system and includes return shipping of stock.

I've also heard of people doing this with a dremel with mixed results.

Seekers