New HMR Pro - A Bit of a Letdown

[ebnash]

So, to start this story I’m in California so I showed up to my FFL to start DROS paperwork on my new HMR Pro in 6.5 Creedmoor. The gun was purchased over the phone because I don’t have a local dealer.

First, these rifles come with a nylon padded case inside the box which is a nice touch. The zipper was destroyed on the case. No big deal cause I really don’t care about a freebie case as it won’t be used.

Rifle comes out for my inspection and there is a flat shiny spot on the barrel cap. So either this happened at Bergara or in shipping. Either way, they shipped it this way, or their packing design is crap.


To top it off, I looked at the 100yd test group that comes with the rifle and it is quite unimpressive. It is sub MOA, but I certainly wouldn’t be proud to attach it to a rifle I was shipping out. My $400 Savage 10FP that I bought 15 years ago shoots better looking groups at 100 yards.

I have to say it was a very poor 1st impression of the company considering I purchased a one of their premier line rifles.

The last item is more of a personal preference, but the color of the stock on the pro version looks pretty cheap and they left mound release marks all over it. I’ll probably either try to paint it myself or have it cerakoted.

I have 10 days wait now for a rifle that I’m really not all that excited to take ownership of.

 

[wade2big]

Dont get negative about your purchase just yet. That attached group means nothing. Bergara says 1 moa gaurantee and that test target fits the bill so i doubt they are going to waste more ammo (money) to shoot a second brand of ammunition through the rifle. Wait until you shoot it with a few different loads. I bet you will find one that shoots to your liking.

Dont worry about the little bitty shiny spot on the end of the thread protector. If you actually use your rifle you will do much worse. The rifles that i use have worn edges as well. When i am in the pickup or in the side by side, the muzzle goes to the floor. Thats the handiest way to carry the rifle so i can get to it if i need too. It rubs the muzzle. All the dings, scuffs, and bangs add character.

Let us know how it shoots for you.

 

[spurrnch]

Have a Bergara premier as well and wasn't all that impressed with the target that came with it. Factory ammo that I had (162 Hornady eldx) was exactly what they shot through it and found similar results. Now reloading for it and just can't seem to get the eldx stuff to shoot that well. Shooting Berger 175, 180, and 184's it is incredible. Have done a bunch of load development on these and don't have a group over .6moa most under a half and many under .25. Have custom guns that don't come close. I am pretty pleased with mine.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Sounds like you’re a bit unreasonable to me. You’re expecting custom grade fit and finish on your cheap factory rifle. That’s not how the world works buddy.

 

[patriot07]

The good news is that I'm sure you can get it to shoot better than that if you handload. Bad news is it looks like they either have shipping problems or QC problems, or both (considering the cap and the stock).

I'm sure you'll be happy with the Bergara in the long run, but personally in this price range I just don't see the downside of a Tikka. It may have a dull-looking stock, but there are zero question marks about quality and accuracy. Regardless, I'd bet a Dr. Pepper that a month or two from now we get a post about how much you're enjoying it. Just relax for now.

 

[wade2big]

Sounds like you’re a bit unreasonable to me. You’re expecting custom grade fit and finish on your cheap factory rifle. That’s not how the world works buddy.

Why did you sugarcoat it. Next time just tell him lime it is. Lol

 

[patriot07]

You’re expecting custom grade fit and finish on your cheap factory rifle.

I'll beg to differ a little. HMR Pro's are like $1500. It's not really a cheap factory rifle. It's nearing semi-custom range.

I expect custom grade fit & finish out of my Tikka which costs less than $1500, or at least 95% of the custom fit & finish with everything but the stock. Paying more doesn't necessarily equal better quality - it may just mean a custom configuration of equivalent quality.

 

[Gohring65]

I never read into those test targets.
I have rifles that have never shot factory ammo, just reloads.
Most of the factory rifles I played with, even my Savages, always need tweaked a little to get to shoot to my satisfaction.
Like, adjusting/smoothing the trigger, barrel contact, tighten scope mounts. Etc.
As far as the muzzle protector, I have about five of those of various brands, if you want a shiny new one I might have one in stainless. I put a brake on them before firing a shot.

 

[ebnash]

Appreciate the positive responses. Hopefully your right and the gun performs better than expected.

 

[Drumie]

The zipper on the soft case of my HMR Pro broke as well. But don't knock the gun untill you shoot it. They are very accurate. And just pull the thread protector off and throw on a Hellfire brake on it and the shiny spot is all gone.

 

[ebnash]

A couple points.

Don't really care about the case or the visible ding on the barrel cap. It's just more of an indication of poor quality or handling and have to wonder if the rifle was dropped on the barrel end. I will be fitting a brake to the rifle, either way.

The other point about fit an finish. Someone mentioned I shouldn't expect much from a cheap factory rifle. To that, I chose the premier/pro version because they are described to be built/assembled by hand and that indicates a higher level of detail and care. I think "cheap factory rifle" is a bit of a stretch in this case.

Either way, hopefully all my concerns will be proven wrong when I get it together and shoot.

 

[Kickin45]

Your half right. I wouldn’t put it in the “cheap” category, but its still considered a mid tier budget rifle. $2500 and up is the start for high quality rifles. Hand made simply means it was assembled by hand and not by machines. I’m sure after a full day of assembling 200 rifles, I’d probably let a few things slide if I was putting them together. I’d be tired, and sick of seeing them lol.
I agree with you that the issues you mentioned shouldn’t exist, but as was mentioned, that’s reality.

As far as the target, not every shooter is a world class sniper, and we have no idea the conditions. I’m not sure if it’s indoors or outdoor range for Bergara. If it was outdoors, then you’ve got massive variables. Indoor is more controlled, but that doesn’t mean the the shooter was a great shooter. He could have been coming down with something or full blown sick for all we know. Maybe he’s older and his eyes aren’t so great anymore.

Shoot it, find the best load for it, get a good feel for the gun and then make a decision

 

[ebnash]

Your half right. I wouldn’t put it in the “cheap” category, but its still considered a mid tier budget rifle. $2500 and up is the start for high quality rifles. Hand made simply means it was assembled by hand and not by machines. I’m sure after a full day of assembling 200 rifles, I’d probably let a few things slide if I was putting them together. I’d be tired, and sick of seeing them lol.
I agree with you that the issues you mentioned shouldn’t exist, but as was mentioned, that’s reality.

As far as the target, not every shooter is a world class sniper, and we have no idea the conditions. I’m not sure if it’s indoors or outdoor range for Bergara. If it was outdoors, then you’ve got massive variables. Indoor is more controlled, but that doesn’t mean the the shooter was a great shooter. He could have been coming down with something or full blown sick for all we know. Maybe he’s older and his eyes aren’t so great anymore.

Shoot it, find the best load for it, get a good feel for the gun and then make a decision

All good points...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

A couple points.

Don't really care about the case or the visible ding on the barrel cap. It's just more of an indication of poor quality or handling and have to wonder if the rifle was dropped on the barrel end. I will be fitting a brake to the rifle, either way.

The other point about fit an finish. Someone mentioned I shouldn't expect much from a cheap factory rifle. To that, I chose the premier/pro version because they are described to be built/assembled by hand and that indicates a higher level of detail and care. I think "cheap factory rifle" is a bit of a stretch in this case.

Either way, hopefully all my concerns will be proven wrong when I get it together and shoot.

Not trying to be a dick here, but...

1. It's a thread protector, not a "barrel cap". Its job is to protect the threads from an impact. IF your shiny spot occurred on the rifle then it means it's doing its job. You're also making a big assumption that it occurred on the rifle. I'm sure they're in a bin with hundreds if not thousands of them in it. It simply could have been towards the bottom and the bin sat down hard and it got some impact. Just one scenario, but there's no certainty it happened on the rifle and it doesn't mean their QC sucks because of this. Also who's to say it didn't happen at the dealer level when they inspected it? You're being seriously nit picky over this and making the assumption that the rifle has poor QC because of this part which most people toss in a parts bin and never use anyway.

2. Yes it's their premier rifle, but it's still a cheap factory rifle all things considered. When a custom action and trigger costs more than the entire rifle, yes it's a cheap factory rifle. Is it a piece of shit? No, they're great rifles but you're expecting way too much from a production grade product. I have HK pistols that cost almost as much as your precision rifle and they have some mold lines on them and they're the highest end production grade polymer pistols out there. The chassis on your rifle is molded the same way at the regular HMR and the premium price you're paying for the pro version is for the better action and barrel, not for them to go over each chassis by hand and remove mold lines. If they did that they'd have to charge for that labor and manual labor such as that is much more expensive than machine labor. Would you want to pay $200 more for the rifle to not have those lines? Because that's probably what it would cost to have people go over every rifle and do that. I certainly would not be complaining about some mold lines on a chassis that you can buy brand new for under $400 and includes bottom metal and all, that's unreasonable to expect perfection at this level.

Not a single one of your complaints has any merit. If it was that big of a deal you should have called the dealer that you purchased it from on the spot and asked for an exchange before filling out any paperwork. It obviously wasn't a big enough issue to take this action which would have gotten you a replacement, but you decided to come here and whine to a bunch of people on the internet who can do absolutely nothing to satisfy your issue other than tell you that you're being unreasonable.

I'm sure your rifle is going to shoot fine though but I have a feeling that you're in for a few more personal let downs before you come to the realization that you can't expect perfection out of big box store grade products.

 

[etn1type]

A couple points.

Don't really care about the case or the visible ding on the barrel cap. It's just more of an indication of poor quality or handling and have to wonder if the rifle was dropped on the barrel end. I will be fitting a brake to the rifle, either way.

The other point about fit an finish. Someone mentioned I shouldn't expect much from a cheap factory rifle. To that, I chose the premier/pro version because they are described to be built/assembled by hand and that indicates a higher level of detail and care. I think "cheap factory rifle" is a bit of a stretch in this case.

Either way, hopefully all my concerns will be proven wrong when I get it together and shoot.

I have a non-premiere B14 HMR, which is around $500 (or more) less than what the Premiere retails for. Mine shoots .5-.6 inch groups any day, and smaller If I'm really on my shit. I can understand some frustration with how things look at first glance, but I believe a company like Bergara will put together a rifle that can shoot. And if it doesn't, I know they have the kind of customer service to make things right. I'm also a firm believer in that there's always a one that manages to make it into the wild, that probably should have had a second look at it.

Either way, I'm sure it will shoot as well as it should, even if that takes a little work on your part.

 

[ebnash]

Not trying to be a dick here, but...

Should have just ended with that statement.

Not my first firearm purchase so I know what to expect. I did not expect this as I have several other rifles and pistols of varying costs above and below this that I have had no problems with...

I can certainly understand why some might say I am being unreasonable, but I did accept the firearm and I own that. Just sharing my experience here. There are other quality related issues that I noticed, as well. I'm sure I'll end up enjoying this rifle in the end, but I would not be pushing a recommendation for the PRO model to anyone who is expecting anything other than a fluted bolt. Inside the nylon case, I can see where the silver finish is shedding off and transferring to the nylon.

Save the extra $500 or so and spend it on optics or accessories...

 

[Codiekfx400]

I have the Bergara premier with the Orias chassis in 6.5 Creedmoor. It loves 123 Scenars over a stiff dose of rl16. Great rifle imo.

 

[XLR308]

That just happens on the California models they ship out everyone else gets the top shelf shit.

 

[DOA]

That just happens on the California models they ship out everyone else gets the top shelf shit.

I think its the case of CA owner that probably puts black tape on his AR's brass deflector.

 

[ebnash]

Point taken. I’m out

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Why accept the rifle at all if the details you're complaining about are giving you this much heartburn?

Is the retailer you purchased the rifle aware of the issues? Have you given the seller and/or Bergara a chance to address the issue? That is assuming the rifle is new and wasn't sold as a blem, and that you purchased from a reputable retailer with a decent return policy.

If not, I can't see any point in a thread crapping all over a rifle that you willingly accepted and haven't even had a chance to shoot yet, all over two things that could easily be addressed by the manufacturer and/or retailer (a blemished thread protector and a case that should be easily replaced), plus a test target with factory ammo that meets the manufacturer's guarantee for the product.

 

[Bender]

It’s a fine rifle with a smooth as glass action. It will shoot great. It will do much better groups. I’ll send you a dollar bill if it doesn’t.

 

[hypno02]

You are being a nitpicky little girl.

Should the thread protector scratch (which in no way shape or form affects performance) have happened? No. Where'd it happen? who knows. Sucks to be you because you live in a shitty state and you probably won't find out.

You-Purchases a rifle guaranteed to shoot 1 moa.
Rifle- *shoots 1 moa*
You- Bitches about said rifle shooting 1 moa.

#Californian

 

[hypno02]

I can certainly understand why some might say I am being unreasonable, but I did accept the firearm and I own that. Just sharing my experience here. There are other quality related issues that I noticed, as well. I'm sure I'll end up enjoying this rifle in the end, but I would not be pushing a recommendation for the PRO model to anyone who is expecting anything other than a fluted bolt. Inside the nylon case, I can see where the silver finish is shedding off and transferring to the nylon.

Save the extra $500 or so and spend it on optics or accessories...

Ok you ignorant Californian I'm gonna inject you with some knowledge here. Why did you pay that $500 premium? Was it just for a fluted bolt?

*Spoiler* No....

1. The premier rifle sports the premier series action. [shocker]
a. The premier bolt is fluted. (fanfuckingtastic)
b. The premier bolt utilizes a floating bolt head
c. The premier rifles come with either a Timney or TT trigger
d. One piece bolt body
e. Completely nitrided
2. 416R Stainless Steel Barrel
a. The HMR comes with a [lesser quality] 4140 CM barrel
3. Better packaging

I'm sure I missed a few things. But if you're going to bitch about a test target that's within spec...man...lol.

 

[AverageGrunt]

I just got mine two weeks ago and have shot it twice. Thing shoots like a dream and was sub moa (I’m no Chris Kyle) each time. I understand the little scratches and stuff but again like everyone said just shoot it and be happy. I custom built my long range gun and have 4K in it and shoots the same as this gun (take that with a grain of salt all you “prs” guys haha. Big difference is 400-1200 on the custom build with defiance and McMillan blah blah. This rifle is for the beginner that doesn’t want to spend that money and doesn’t need to. This rifle is worth the 1500 I paid all day. I garuntee this will be an extra rifle for a buddy at the range once you or if you get deeper into the sport. Enjoy it and I can bet this will out shoot you regardless. Also all you tikka 400
Dollar rifle guys seriously need to shut the fuck up lol so sick of seeing that crap.

 

[XLR308]

I hope your all proud of yourselves, there will be reports filed now.

 

[cattleman99]

I hope the rifle works out for you man. It’s hard to control what happens to the rifle outside of the factory. Give it a whirl, I think you’ll like it once you play with it. I’m sure we’ve all had things show up in an unexpected condition, it sucks, but I know it’s still a great rifle regardless. I think you’ll like it. Welcome to the hide, and sorry for the wonderful people who were giving you crap. Happy shooting man

 

[patriot07]

I'd call Bergara and explain the cap and case issue. They might send you a new one of each.

 

[XLR308]

I hope the rifle works out for you man. It’s hard to control what happens to the rifle outside of the factory. Give it a whirl, I think you’ll like it once you play with it. I’m sure we’ve all had things show up in an unexpected condition, it sucks, but I know it’s still a great rifle regardless. I think you’ll like it. Welcome to the hide, and sorry for the wonderful people who were giving you crap. Happy shooting man

I wouldn't have expected a different reaction for anyone else. He just joined and starts bitching and moaning about some trivial shit about a company and rifle that is held in pretty high regard around here and frequently recommended.
I think even Lowlight would have been given shit given the same circumstances although his reaction I'm sure would have been a little more fired up.
He will either get over it and stick around or not and really should have given the manufacturer a chance to correct any issues he had and then commented about that.

 

[cattleman99]

I wouldn't have expected a different reaction for anyone else. He just joined and starts bitching and moaning about some trivial shit about a company and rifle that is held in pretty high regard around here and frequently recommended.
I think even Lowlight would have been given shit given the same circumstances although his reaction I'm sure would have been a little more fired up.
He will either get over it and stick around or not and really should have given the manufacturer a chance to correct any issues he had and then commented about that.

I like Bergara rifles quite a lot. They make good products, and their customer service is great. A call to them would have settle his issue. Yes, he complained over stupid things. But isn’t living in California and having to wait ten days for it punishment enough for the guy?

 

[moosemeat]

I had a entire post written defending the op. Then I looked at the pic again... That scuff aint shit and no way to know where it was damaged. If there is transfer in the case then I honestly would look at the dealer. Cause manufactor most likely puts it in soft case, in hard case, in box all at one station.
I will agree I think the premier line is over rated. Hell, probably cheaper to make floating bolt head(savage does it), oooo bolt fluting, and I give zero fucks if a barrel is stainless and see no advantage to it.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Ok you ignorant Californian I'm gonna inject you with some knowledge here. Why did you pay that $500 premium? Was it just for a fluted bolt?

*Spoiler* No....

1. The premier rifle sports the premier series action. [shocker]
a. The premier bolt is fluted. (fanfuckingtastic)
b. The premier bolt utilizes a floating bolt head
c. The premier rifles come with either a Timney or TT trigger
d. One piece bolt body
e. Completely nitrided
2. 416R Stainless Steel Barrel
a. The HMR comes with a [lesser quality] 4140 CM barrel
3. Better packaging

I'm sure I missed a few things. But if you're going to bitch about a test target that's within spec...man...lol.

You didn't miss it but you got it wrong, the HMR Pro is action and barrel cerakoted.

 

[BANG...ping]

Pay no attention to the test target. It was done on an unseasoned bore. My match rifle shoots poorly just after I clean it. 10-15 rounds and it settles right back in. As for the thread protector, call Bergara. I am almost certain they will send you a new one. I have been at matches where Bergara donates rifles to the prize table. Just call them. They want customers to be happy. Bergara makes a great product. The trigger is pretty sweet.
Bang

 

[Srgt. Hulka]

Tough crowd.

 

[Derek200]

Wow. You guys have a way with people

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Snipershide has a zero tolerance approach on snowflakes.

 

[Derek200]

Meh. Way to be the better man. What I’ve noticed is that when people spend a lot of money on a new toy. And “a lot” is subjective. Is that they want it to be be nearly perfect. When there are cosmetic blemishes, it’s ok to be dissappinted. It’s also ok to talk about it here. Supposed to be a community.

 

[Gohring65]

Man.... I remember the first time I discovered holster marks on my Wilson combat 1911. I was pissed, self inflicted but still upset me. Same with my higher priced optics. I guess what I’m saying is, the marks on that rifle, is mild compared to what it would look like after I had it for a year. I get it though, it’s brand new and shouldn’t look like that.

 

[gatorbait308]

Man.... I remember the first time I discovered holster marks on my Wilson combat 1911. I was pissed, self inflicted but still upset me. Same with my higher priced optics. I guess what I’m saying is, the marks on that rifle, is mild compared to what it would look like after I had it for a year. I get it though, it’s brand new and shouldn’t look like that.

You should see Larry ( take notes ) break in his barrel, you'll be amazed.

 

[XLR308]

Meh. Way to be the better man. What I’ve noticed is that when people spend a lot of money on a new toy. And “a lot” is subjective. Is that they want it to be be nearly perfect. When there are cosmetic blemishes, it’s ok to be dissappinted. It’s also ok to talk about it here. Supposed to be a community.

I can totally identify with that but we also have a say in whether or not we accept something before completing the paperwork on it. Once that's done you own it and any of the blemishes that it arrived with, manufacturing defects and recalls are a totally different story.
If I were expecting to be completly blown away by every aspect of a rifle from fit of every component down to the color and finish being exactly what I wanted and a test target included with a little bug hole group that would be called a custom rifle and would be considerably more expensive.

Once he gets out and shoots the rifle the happy face will be back and all will be well.

 

[midSCarolina]

Shoot it. I highly doubt that the test target you get is indicative of how the rifle will perform. And if you call Bergara I would assume you could get the cap swapped out too. I have an OG HMR that I hunt with and it has shot very well for me, so I would assume your PRO will out perform mine (even though there really is only room for marginal performance enhancements IMO). I had a really hard time deciding between Tikka and the HMR and am really happy with how things went. Is it as refined as some more $$$ rifles, no, but it should perform above its price tag. I wish the PRO was available when I purchased mine.

 

[SonicBurlap]

I would have liked to purchase an HMR Pro when I bought my B-14 HMR but I couldn't find one available in the stores at the time and was told online that I would have to wait; that and the price made my decision for me. I'm going to have the action and barrel of my B-14 HMR cerakoted by my local gunsmith, other than that the difference will be 2 more inches on the barrel, the improved action and fluted bolt, different color stock (which I would not have been fond of), and the stainless steel and included test target (LOL).
My HMR is a reliable, accurate weapon with constant, and repeatable results and leaves nothing to be desired performance wise. It is some of the best money I ever spent; it was accurate out of the box and it has only gotten better since and I'm sure yours will too. As for the cap give Bergara a call, or shoot them an e-mail, they are nice folks and eager to do right by their customers. I am sure you will enjoy this rifle once you complete the break in and figure out which ammo, or load it likes.

 

[nexusfire]

Sounds like you’re a bit unreasonable to me. You’re expecting custom grade fit and finish on your cheap factory rifle. That’s not how the world works buddy.

It must be awesome to be 28 and fucking know everything.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It must be awesome to be 28 and fucking know everything.

You're off on your years, but yes, it is rather nice. Thanks.

 

[Hybridhunternm]

My hmr pro came with a test target that looked like that as well. It just reminds me how glad I am that I reload and how bad factory ammo can be!!! I haven’t had the chance to shoot much with it and I’m old testing but mine is a shooter and I’m really happy with the purchase

 

[Bender]

Oh, so we Doxxing people now? Lmao

 

[Rob01]

Ok lets start acting like adults again. No more internet stalking and name calling.

 

[Primus]

The test target means nothing other than the min wage room temp IQ tester was able to put 3 rounds into the min specs target in about 5 seconds.

Wait no, I'm sure he tried really really hard, developed a special load for your rifle and then after shooting 20 or so groups, cherry picked the first finest example to throw into the cardboard box with your rifle that was assembled by other minimum wage workers who really really try hard.

What do people really think goes on in a assembly factory?

 

[300ATT]

Its all about correctly setting and then slightly exceeding expectations ... do that in any endeavor and you will enjoy MUCH success.

20 - 25 years ago getting a rifle that was guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA or better was $4,000+. We have been blessed to live in a time where there are many "semi-custom"/factory rifles that are guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA for $2,000.00 and many non-guaranteed factory guns for $1,000 - $1,500 that more often than not shoot 1/2 MOA (RPR's, Tikka's Howa's even Bergaras). Heck, some of my shooting friends bought Ruger americans ("bottom of the bass-boat" rifles) that shoot 1/2 MOA.

With factory rifles you "pays your money and you takes your chances ... " and sometimes you get lucky. Today you have a much better chance of getting lucky with a factory gun than you did 20 years ago but no guarantees. you have to pay $$ for the guarantee.

It seems that Bergara met the guarantee but not the OP's expectations. Case in point, I have friends that bought Bergara HMR's in 6.5 Creed and they shot 1/2" (or better) out of the box with factory match ammo - they were ecstatic. My father bought a .308 Bergara HMR on a Cabela's sale for $820 and it didn't shoot 1/2", it shot 1" with FGMM - he was disappointed because his expectations were skewed by great reports (not guarantees) from others. A detachable box magazine fed 1 MOA guaranteed rifle for $820 in an adjustable stock with a 20 MOA pic rail is NOT a bad deal ... yet he had the rifle sent off to MileHigh for a proof rebarrel in 6 creed anyway.

Once MileHigh is done it will shoot 1/2 MOA or better because MileHigh does great work and is very good at meeting and exceeding expectations. In the end he will have spent $2,200 for a gun that is guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA which is a good deal. Commit to $4000+ and you can find some rifles with a 3/8 MOA guarantee.

There is no free lunch but sometimes you get lucky ...

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Its all about correctly setting and then slightly exceeding expectations ... do that in any endeavor and you will enjoy MUCH success.

.......

It seems that Bergara met the guarantee but not the OP's expectations. ......

It's also important to remember that the OP hasn't actually shot the rifle yet, at all (with either factory match ammo or handloads).

His dissatisfaction with the rifle's perceived accuracy is based solely on the factory test target (that meets the manufacturer's specifications). Chances are, the rifle will shoot considerably better than the factory target suggest, but being in Cali he won't be able to take possession of the rifle for a few more days.

I think most are just suggesting that he should wait and actually shoot the rifle before crying foul on Bergara (and perhaps should contact them and give them a chance to address any issues before raising a stink on a public forum).