New Home Defense Rifle Suggestions
- Thread starter Trumpinator
- Start date
3/25/2025 right now AK type weapons are the most produced assault weapons over all assault weapons combined . Fifty years from now when gun powder powered weapons are passé and the standard police issue is pulse proton discharge weapons the ak will still hold that title . At around 1 am on 3/25/2050 it will still be doing illegal evil on the streets of chicago by hoodrats and maybe even by a yugo [maybe mine] made by sebian monkeys ,doubtful it will be my US made in NC by meth heads but now fixed .
Are you high ?
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To-date, every high-volume course I have run or been at where AKs were present, they had malfunctions that distracted from training, or broke. These were all select-fire or European guns for the most part, that had no connection to the US private market.
The one exception was a Romanian import semi auto, which experienced a stuck case in the chamber, needed to be kick-started off a truck tailgate. That was Dr. Drew’s from Magpul out in the Pawnee Grasslands in Colorado in the 2000s.
The idea of an AK popping into my head as a home defense solution is so foreign to me, that I’m still trying to compute it. If it was all I had, then sure, but there are so many better options.
The one exception was a Romanian import semi auto, which experienced a stuck case in the chamber, needed to be kick-started off a truck tailgate. That was Dr. Drew’s from Magpul out in the Pawnee Grasslands in Colorado in the 2000s.
The idea of an AK popping into my head as a home defense solution is so foreign to me, that I’m still trying to compute it. If it was all I had, then sure, but there are so many better options.
BCM full rifles are in stock in a number of places, like here, here, and on GB. Or get a BCM upper, which you can find in lots of places, and a BCM lower (I like the newer Mk2 lower with the A5-compatible buffer setup). The MK2 lowers are hard to find in stock, but if you get on the notifications list of a few of the larger dealers, they get some every few months.
Румынский АК ?!
. Это эталон надежности . Есть еще болгарский АК . Судя по качеству этих жалких поделок ... Настоящий АК может быть сделан только в СССР или России , все остальное - жалкое подобие оригинала по надежности и качеству изготовления . Если мне предложат оставить себе одну винтовку из тысячи , то это будет российский АК . С ним мне не страшны ни плюс 40 , ни минус 40 , конечно , по Цельсию - он всегда будет готов к работе .The Finnish Valmet and SAKO Rk series crush anything from Russia in terms of quality, reliability, and accuracy. Just the way it is. They are also boat anchors though, even the Rk76 with stamped steel receiver. It has double thickness sheet steel, so is still very heavy. Cool guns, but more a product of 1940s-1950s design philosophies and manufacturing methods.
My Russian AKM requires you to aim between the left protective ear and the front sight post if you want Point of Aim to equal Point of Impact. I would be ashamed to mention AKs in a conversation about home defense in the year 2005, let alone 2025.
If I had to use one, it would be suppressed with a short barrel, US-made adjustable gas piston, folding receiver cover with integral 1913 rail, MRDS, Weapon Light, de-horned of all the sharp edges. Since something like that has nothing to offer me over an AR-15, I haven’t had one built.
Keep in mind I have shot more rounds through AKs in a day than most Russian professional soldiers have shot or ever will shoot in their entire careers. That includes 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 variants from multiple countries.
My Russian AKM requires you to aim between the left protective ear and the front sight post if you want Point of Aim to equal Point of Impact. I would be ashamed to mention AKs in a conversation about home defense in the year 2005, let alone 2025.
If I had to use one, it would be suppressed with a short barrel, US-made adjustable gas piston, folding receiver cover with integral 1913 rail, MRDS, Weapon Light, de-horned of all the sharp edges. Since something like that has nothing to offer me over an AR-15, I haven’t had one built.
Keep in mind I have shot more rounds through AKs in a day than most Russian professional soldiers have shot or ever will shoot in their entire careers. That includes 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 variants from multiple countries.
I keep this one under my pillow next to my Jumbo Oversized Anal Beads, when used in conjunction with one another, creates the perfect combination of lethality and psychological damage because if for some reason the perpetrator survives he'll still have to explain to the court why he has a Prolapsed Asshole BEFORE going to prison.
suggestion for a 5.56/.223 AR-15. Ruger, Palmetto State Armory, and Smith & Wesson make decent budget ARs. Grab a Sig Romeo 5 red dot, and a Streamlight Protac light and you’ve got a serviceable home defense gun for under $1000.00.
Compare our Finnish machine with the Russian one? Are you sure ? Our 30,000-man army received the Rk in the 1960s and produced less than 400,000 automatic rifles in 40 years, while Russia produced just under a hundred million AK during that time for its million-strong army. Your comparison is incorrect. Russian Ak also milled at first, but then they left milling only for the SVD, I'm sure that the Russians knew something and realize it : )) , no one is attacking us, we are slowly destroying ourselves : ( . Until our stupid Finnish liberal gay government put us at odds with our Russian neighbor... Okay, that's a shame. My Saiga AK, which I bought before the sanctions were imposed, has a picatini strap, a stock with a tube and an M-shaped handguard. You are very, very wrong about the Russian AK.
Yes, I also shot a lot and shot from 9x19 to 338lm, I have experience. The weapon of the last argument is the Russian AK. No one will be able to defeat him for a very long time, and that's a fact.
? Our 30,000-man army received the Rk in the 1960s and produced less than 400,000 automatic rifles in 40 years, while Russia produced just under a hundred million AK during that time for its million-strong army. Your comparison is incorrect. Russian Ak also milled at first, but then they left milling only for the SVD, I'm sure that the Russians knew something and realize it : )) , no one is attacking us, we are slowly destroying ourselves : ( . Until our stupid Finnish liberal gay government put us at odds with our Russian neighbor... Okay, that's a shame. My Saiga AK, which I bought before the sanctions were imposed, has a picatini strap, a stock with a tube and an M-shaped handguard. You are very, very wrong about the Russian AK. Yes, I also shot a lot and shot from 9x19 to 338lm, I have experience
. The weapon of the last argument is the Russian AK. No one will be able to defeat him for a very long time, and that's a fact.
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Pretty Hard to beat this for the Money. And you can swap out parts down the road
armsunlimited.com
Colt Carbine .223 Semi-Auto Rifle w/ Quad Rail | 14.5" Pin Weld
The combat proven Colt LE6920 AR15 M4 carbine is a law enforcement weapon system that features many of the advantages of the military M4. With the 4-position buttstock fully retracted, the Law Enforcement Carbine is less than 32 in length, ideal for tacti
armsunlimited.com
Admittedly I didn’t read the entire thread. Being prior LE and a bit fanatical about the reliability and function of my systems the clear winner for me without question would be the PWS MK109 Mod 2 300blk out with a Polonium 30 suppressor shooting Hornady SubX with a reliable WML (I prefer modlite). Piston system, lightweight, ultra reliable, you will be able to keep your situational awareness (if you’ve trained) and you are far less likely to have over penetration ( if you have family). In a real indoor gunfight, there is total chaos once a round goes off. If you can get ahead of the chaos with a suppressed sub, you will be far more effective. No ear pro needed. This is the exact system I have in an RFID safe mounted under my bed. Worst case it buys me time to get to the real equipment if the need arises. I also keep a specific outfit, gun-belt, plate carrier with extra mags, shoes, rifle optimized gas mask, eye protection, and OC grenades roughly 10 feet from the bed. Having seen what I’ve seen, this is how I sleep soundly.
At the end of the day, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I effectively put an end to my LE ambitions by standing up for a homeowner involved in this exact same situation. There are LE out there who still respect law and what is right above all else. Protect yourself and your family above all else. Perhaps that’s why fate pushed me to Med School. I’m in a bit better economic condition now
At the end of the day, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I effectively put an end to my LE ambitions by standing up for a homeowner involved in this exact same situation. There are LE out there who still respect law and what is right above all else. Protect yourself and your family above all else. Perhaps that’s why fate pushed me to Med School. I’m in a bit better economic condition now
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This ^^^ especially when you can find them on sale for a little over a grand. I grabbed a 14.5 SD upper and paired it with a complete aero m4e1 lower and it shoots in the 6’s with hand loads all day.
One thing for the OP to note re: buying any type of factory rifle that you didn’t personally put together…make sure to check that all key parts are torqued down correctly like castle nuts, barrel nuts, gas key screws, gas block screws, hand-guard bolts, muzzle device, grip screw, etc..
I would also remove the lower then push the buffer all the way down the buffer tube with the bolt carrier until it bottoms out then make sure there’s enough of a gap between the gas key of the carrier and the lower receiver that you can fit 2 quarters in (this will test if your carriers key will slam into the lower receiver with hot loads).
We also discussed weapons for home protection and walking through the dense forest the other day. 1. Reliability; 2. Easy to operate; 3. Not at the price of a Bentley. Yes, there is a lot of modern stuff, but a rifle from an exhibition or an Imperial stormtrooper blaster is not an option.
I took out my Saiga, which I hadn't fired in almost a year and a half, and the magazines were loaded with 30 rounds each and had been in the safe with the cartridges inserted since 2022. Russian Russian stores were made in the USSR, before we quietly went from Finland to the Russians for a weekend to drink vodka, take a walk around Peterhof, buy something for Russian weapons, such stores were sold from them for 3 to 5 euros and we bought them all once: they work with any AK, reliable, durable, I have about 30 different stores, there are never too many . The metal magazines are still in the safe, and I'll test them later, but I'm sure they'll work. We shot with IPSC friends, not a single delay, everything works.
There is also a 75-round magazine, which the Russians call a tambourine, a funny word . I've also been lying with the cartridges inserted since the age of 22, without a single delay.
The Saiga-AK may not look like my new AR rifle from IWA 2025, but as the only rifle for all occasions in life, this is the best option. Yes , and the 7.62x39 cartridge, of course.
I took out my Saiga, which I hadn't fired in almost a year and a half, and the magazines were loaded with 30 rounds each and had been in the safe with the cartridges inserted since 2022. Russian Russian stores were made in the USSR, before we quietly went from Finland to the Russians for a weekend to drink vodka, take a walk around Peterhof, buy something for Russian weapons, such stores were sold from them for 3 to 5 euros and we bought them all once: they work with any AK, reliable, durable, I have about 30 different stores, there are never too many . The metal magazines are still in the safe, and I'll test them later, but I'm sure they'll work. We shot with IPSC friends, not a single delay, everything works.
There is also a 75-round magazine, which the Russians call a tambourine, a funny word
. I've also been lying with the cartridges inserted since the age of 22, without a single delay. The Saiga-AK may not look like my new AR rifle from IWA 2025, but as the only rifle for all occasions in life, this is the best option. Yes , and the 7.62x39 cartridge, of course.
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I used to own a Saiga MK (the AK-103 civilian version), and oh damn, it was a poor rifle in comparison to the Sako M92S I also have. Accuracy was worse than mediocre (about football-size at 100 metres), and someone at the factory had actually installed the front sight base slightly canted, so that the sight adjustment range was barely enough when the front sight was adjusted to the far end of the adjustment range. I've seen similar in Romanian and Chinese rifles as well, complaints about their poor quality are common in Finland. In comparison, the M92S can put a palm-sized group (without the fingers) at 150 metres with its iron sights with Sako or Lapua ammunition, so under 2 MOA (that's also what's the accuracy objective is for conscripts). The trigger is also a lot better in the Valmet and Sako rifles.Compare our Finnish machine with the Russian one? Are you sure
But on the positive side, I had bought the Saiga for 400 euros and sold it for 550 euros, so it wasn't that bad of a deal.
The reason for the Soviet Union to transfer to stamping from milling was the lower cost of stamping and it also being far less labour intensive (as well as requiring less highly trained machinists), than running full manual milling machines on receiver-sized steel billets. Finland tried stamping, but FDF put stricter requirements on the stamped receivers than the Soviet specs (100% interchangeability of internal parts with the milled receivers, and same external shape of receiver) and it turned out that stamping wasn't so much cheaper than milling, and impractical for FDF when accounting their lower accuracy life (the stamped receiver rifles begun to lose their accuracy quicker), so Valmet returned entirely to milling in FDF contracts beginning in 1983.
In addition to the FDF and international commercial market, Valmet and Sako also manufactured receivers as subcontractors to IMI (Sako dealt with the export to Israel, so the government-owned Valmet wouldn't be directly tied to Israeli sales) and sold some exports sales (Indonesia, Qatar, UAE, some other small batches). Valmet even won the Saudi Arabian trials, but the production capacity was lacking (they wanted a contract for 100 000 rifles within 6 months), so the Soviet Union got the contract instead. Similar trials victory was from Colombia, but the Foreign Office blocked the sale (and Colombia bought Galils instead).
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Again, the comparison of hot and cold. How many rifles does Sako produce per year? How many Kalashnikov rifles? The answer is 1:10,000 or even more now. I've seen a faulty Sako M-92 trigger and that doesn't mean the 92 is a bad rifle. Is your accuracy with very good quality cartridges at 150 meters the size of a palm? The size of the average male palm is 10 cm and at 150 meters it is more than 2 MOA (1 MOA at 150 meters = 4.5 cm). This is the usual accuracy of the M-92: 2-3 MOA, although with such expensive and high-quality cartridges, accuracy should be better
Why does everyone compare shooting from a standard AK with inexpensive cartridges and shooting from an AR rifle with match cartridges? The Russians are making modified AK rifles (they don't sell them here, the government's faggots are all playing with sanctions) and these are very accurate and stable rifles, and they are fired with ordinary inexpensive cartridges. An old friend of mine from St. Petersburg recently bought such a rifle and boasted about the stability of the hits - he fired 70 rounds at one target at a very fast pace with very inexpensive cartridges. In my opinion, this is a great result for any automatic rifle.
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My palm is less than 10 cm, small hands. 2 MOA at 150 metres would be 87 mm.Again, the comparison of hot and cold. How many rifles does Sako produce per year? How many Kalashnikov rifles? The answer is 1:10,000 or even more now. I've seen a faulty Sako M-92 trigger and that doesn't mean the 92 is a bad rifle. Is your accuracy with very good quality cartridges at 150 meters the size of a palm? The size of the average male palm is 10 cm and at 150 meters it is more than 2 MOA (1 MOA at 150 meters = 4.5 cm). This is the usual accuracy of the M-92: 2-3 MOA, although with such expensive and high-quality cartridges, accuracy should be better
I generally can shoot better, but there's a structural problem with the Kalashnikov action and its magazine; the split group/2-group tendency (which was caused by the staggered feed magazine, where the bolt carrier would tilt to its sides depending on which side the next cartridge in the magazine is seated) of the original AK-47 and the reverse-engineered Finnish rifles was eliminated by Valmet with the 76 model bolt carrier with a different geometry (flat instead of round underside; same geometry was applied to the M92S/95), but the problem with the last round, thus empty magazine not exerting pressure on the bottom of the bolt carrier unlike when there are rounds left in the magazine, has not been entirely eliminated, and this causes the last round to hit slightly apart from the other grouping. Generally if there's a dummy or a to-be-unfired round as last in the magazine, the M92S I've got can do around 1 MOA with Sako ammo, but if the magazine is shot empty, the last round will spoil the grouping. Neither in the Russian, Finnish nor Chinese magazines would the follower rise high enough to prevent this.
Valmet managed to eliminate the issue better in the .223/5.56 rifles, where the Valmet magazine feed lip geometry was copied from the Colt AR-15/M16 magazines (and with an empty magazine the follower exerts similar pressure on the bolt carrier as a round left in the magazine would, as the follower rises all the way up to the feed lips), but only in the milled receiver rifles, where the magazine would seat tightly enough to eliminate the sideways wobble. Galil also plays around this issue with a similar Colt-derived geometry.
The interesting thing with the M92S is that it shoots consistently with not only the Finnish ammunition, but also with Barnaul, Geco, PMC and PPU, although Sako factory ammunition produces the best results. Fellow reservists consider Geco to be the worst ammunition in non-Finnish Kalashnikovs, but for some reason the M92S handles it pretty well, much better than Sellier, which is by far the worst in the M92S.
Sako hasn't been producing the Kalashnikov type semi-automatics after FDF ceased further orders by the end of 1998, but until then the yearly production was about 10 000 rifles a year. Valmet could do over 30 000 a year (they bargained with the Saudi negotiations that they could supply the 100 000 rifles within 3 years), but the Valmet Tourula factory was run down some years after its merger by Sako, as the all-manual machinery was thoroughly outdated, and all remaining production would be transferred to the Sako Riihimäki factory (where the RK production lines were obsolescent as well). Because of no further FDF orders, the US assault weapons ban and international military markets being overloaded with Cold War surplus, Sako chose to close the production after 1998.
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OK… I guess we’re doing this again.
AR > Shotgun > Pistol for home defense.
If you’re actually asking for advice, I recommend something subsonic with a can in ‘home defense’ guns; one of my bedside suppressed .45s is there to get me across the room to a PCC, and an AR with a 300BLK upper loaded with subs; both suppressed. My wife’s night stand gun is her CC .380, so that’s kind of a last resort in a HD scenario.
If we need more than that, well, we’re fucked anyway, but at least we can fight our way to the safe to get to the heavier and much, much louder options.
AR > Shotgun > Pistol for home defense.
If you’re actually asking for advice, I recommend something subsonic with a can in ‘home defense’ guns; one of my bedside suppressed .45s is there to get me across the room to a PCC, and an AR with a 300BLK upper loaded with subs; both suppressed. My wife’s night stand gun is her CC .380, so that’s kind of a last resort in a HD scenario.
If we need more than that, well, we’re fucked anyway, but at least we can fight our way to the safe to get to the heavier and much, much louder options.
A braced bcm daniel defense, lmt, hell or even a psa will do fine. 300blk, 8 or 10 inch barrel. Supersonic black tip barnes projectiles at 2100ish fps. Put a decent suppressor, light, red dot, and a nice quick adjust sling and you're in business.
If you want more ammo versatility, go for a 5.56 in a 12.5 inch barrel, typical goodies added on and a GOOD suppressor to take the edge off as much as you can.
A little 9mm pdw with a brace is sorta a rifle... just has a pistol sized pecker on it I guess, but can still get job done inside. Also offering easily obtained subsonic expanding ammo and quiet with a suppressor throwing 147 hst way better than you can shoot with a handgun. The new kuna looks pretty interesting if going this route. Cmmg supposedly fixed their banshee ejector defect too if that blows your skirt up.
Shotgun talk i saw above... maybe, but that damn thing is just so long for indoors compared to other options. SBR or bullpup stuff could be worth a look. Lol that short ksg is a little over desert eagle sized with decent capacity.
If you want more ammo versatility, go for a 5.56 in a 12.5 inch barrel, typical goodies added on and a GOOD suppressor to take the edge off as much as you can.
A little 9mm pdw with a brace is sorta a rifle... just has a pistol sized pecker on it I guess, but can still get job done inside. Also offering easily obtained subsonic expanding ammo and quiet with a suppressor throwing 147 hst way better than you can shoot with a handgun. The new kuna looks pretty interesting if going this route. Cmmg supposedly fixed their banshee ejector defect too if that blows your skirt up.
Shotgun talk i saw above... maybe, but that damn thing is just so long for indoors compared to other options. SBR or bullpup stuff could be worth a look. Lol that short ksg is a little over desert eagle sized with decent capacity.
Need more info to make a decision. Urban? Rural? How close is your neighbor? What type of area you live in? Forested? Desert? Mayberry? South Chicago type? Quite a few factors to decide on what is "perfect". Also what is the likely threat? Cartel? Bigfoot? Grizzly bear? Methhead robbers? The 100% correct answer is to have one of everything available.
Absolutely all automatic rifles with double-row cartridges in the magazine have a problem with accuracy. AK, AR, Garand, SVD, you can list them until the morning - all the problems with positioning the bolt of the cartridge in the chamber are there. Russian russians Valmet and Sako made 62 \ 92 copies of the Russian AK with improvements that no one ever knew about, of course, especially the Russians, who actually invented the Kalashnikov
, now Sako makes the Finnish AR-15. America tremble, our Finnish weapons genius will bring your flawed design to the heights of Mont Blanc and an army rifle with a non-commercial cartridge will fire the same standard 2-3 MOA, but we Fins will spend another 100 million euros of tax money and make a wunderwaffe .80 years later, after 1944, my Finland took another wrong turn.And yet the Doomsday weapon was, is, and will be AK. My dream for my collection is a Russian AK-12 modified in 2023 with a 5.45x39 cartridge.
A dream!!!!!!!!
In the meantime, I'm taming my new AR-10
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