Range Report New Hornady 178 BTHP load

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I got it from Powder Valley but they are currently out of stock.

 

[GrimmRoper]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Man that sucks. Story of my life though. Thanks for the reply

-Nate

 

[spr1]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I got some from Midsouth. I have not tried it yet.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Got mine today.

Definitely a different shape then the 175smk. The 178 has a more sleek look like the 208.

 

[vmpglenn]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got mine today.

Definitely a different shape then the 175smk. The 178 has a more sleek look like the 208. </div></div>

Yep, and COAL mic's at 2.800. They fit fine in the Magpul LR20 mags.

 

[Mill Dott]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

From a 24" Rem 40X with 1:12 twist the Superformance 178 gave me an extra 100 fps over the 175 Fed GMM. Accuracy for the two five shot groups - .56" and .58" at 100 yds.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

So everyone can see the difference.

New Hornady on the left FGMM 175gr SMK on the right.

 

[Terrill]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

FYI
I tried a box last week in two rifles.
Rem. 700 20" = average of 2655 fps
Rem. 700 24" = average 2707 fps
Typical measure from 10 feet, average of 10 shot strings.
With firing four five shot groups at 100 yards, I had one flyer on each group that would always go up and left about 1/2" from the other shots. Each time it would ruin a good 1/2 group. I would love to say that my shooting ability (or lack thereof) had nothing to do with the flyer but I was not having my best day behind a tigger.

 

[BoiseRob]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI... I was not having my best day behind a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">tigger</span></span>.
</div></div>

Let Pooh shoot next time...

 

[Terrill]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Last week the trouble was a trigger, this week it is a keyboard.

 

[spr1]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Any info on the temperature sensitivity of the new powder blend for the Super performance ammo?

 

[Dagsta]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Shot 60 rounds today, first box at 52deg, 22" Bartlien 10 shot ave was 2701fps. At 2pm 63 deg last 21 shots averaged 2721!!! The spread high to low on first box was 13fps. It was a little higher on last 21 shots. Had a couple of rounds that spiked.

All in all I was very impressed. 1/2 moa at 300 early and i wasn't at my best. I think Hornady has really raised the bar!!

 

[Cegorach]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Sounds promising.

 

[vmpglenn]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Recoil is very stout in my 16" KAC SR25 Enhanced Match Carbine, but I did not see any pressure signs on the brass, nor was there any problem with feeding or extraction. The Superformance certainly gets your attention when you're used to shooting Hornady 168gr TAP Amax.

With a 1:11 chrome lined match barrel, MV was 2545fps (corrected) at standard ISO conditions, 900' ASL. In comparison, the 168gr TAP Amax load was at 2465fps (corrected). Driving a 10gr heavier bullet 80fps faster in a 16" barrel... That's pretty darned good.

 

[rem700man]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I got an average of 2776 FPS with it out of a 22" Kreiger with a can. Temp was about 60

It's shoots 1/2 minute out of my rifle.

Very nice factory ammo. I haven't got to spend much time shooting it but I would guess it us going to be a solid performer.

 

[jamesZ71]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

.

 

[Froggy1129]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Components!!! Can't wait.

 

[Falar]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So everyone can see the difference.

New Hornady on the left FGMM 175gr SMK on the right.

</div></div>

Good picture. The new 178gr bullet definitely looks a bit like the 208gr A-max.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I have been getting number all morning as I have 2 cases here, and shortly I will be out on the Tower to get my dope to 1000 yards with it.

Short answer, my 20.5" Rock Barrel on my Harbinger is getting 2747fps. I also have base line data using M118LR so you can see the difference.

I say my gas guns don't like but the bolt rifles are having a party with it.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Less talk more testing...

I'm going to try to get to the range this week, I'll only be able to push it to 300.... not really "pushing it" but whatever.

This might get me to stop loading for .308

 

[vmpglenn]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I say my gas guns don't like but the bolt rifles are having a party with it. </div></div>

What about the load do you gas guns not like? I found recoil to be very stout in my SR25 EMC, but I did not see any pressure signs on the brass or experience any feeding or extraction issues. I have not shot for groups.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

For the gas gun the first round jammed the rifle, and the rest walked, so I basically just begged off shooting the other gasser because the first one hated it and the second one is pretty close to the same.

Groups were terrible, the rounds walked down.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<span style="font-weight: bold">**Range Report 178gr Hornady BTHP Match Superformance**</span>

Over the weekend I acquired 2 cases of the Superformance 178gr Match ammunition, so I spent the morning checking the performance out of several rifles while I was here at Rifles Only.

The rifles used:

1. GAP Harbinger w/ 20.5" Rock Creek Barrel <span style="font-style: italic">(less than 200 rounds through the barrel)</span>

2. Sniper's Hide Valkyrie (GAP Built) w/ 22" Bartlien Barrel <span style="font-style: italic">(approximately 2000 rounds)</span>

3. GAP AR10 w/16" Bartlein Barrel and AAC 7.62SD Suppressor. <span style="font-style: italic">(approximately 3000 rounds)</span>

Chronograph used was a CED M2 with infrared sensors set at 10ft from muzzle

Conditions for the morning:

Temp. 75
Baro. 30.05
Density Alt. 1000ft
Wind 3 to 5MPH from the Northwest

I established baseline velocities using M118LR out of each rifle for comparison.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Rifle #1 "The Harbinger"</span>

Baseline MV 2635fps

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hornady Average Muzzle Velocity: 2747fps </span>

Cold Bore Shot #1 2756fps
Shot #2. 2745fps
Shot #3. 2742fps
Shot #4. 2750fps
Shot #5. 2743fps

ES: 14
SD: 4

Dope to 1000 yards:

300 yards: 1.2 Mils
400 yards: 2.0 Mils
500 yards: 3.0 Mils
600 yards: 4.1 Mils
700 yards: 5.2 Mils
800 yards: 6.7 Mils
900 yards: 7.8 Mils
1000 yards: 9.6 Mils

All verified to point of aim, point of impact with a minimum of 3 to 5 hits on target at each distance.

Average wind hold from 600 yards to 1000 yards with .3 Mils to .5 Mils

<span style="font-weight: bold">***Additional Velocities****</span>

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Sniper's Hide Valkyrie</span>

Baseline Velocity: 2701fps

Cold Bore Shot: 2744fps
Shot #2: 2753fps
Shot #3: 2766fps
Shot #4: 2776fps
Shot #5: 2764fps

<span style="font-weight: bold">Average Velocity: 2760fps</span>
ES: 32
SD: 11

<span style="text-decoration: underline">GAP AR10 w/ 16" Barrel</span>

Baseline Velocity: 2550fps

Cold Bore Shot # 1 2591fps
Shot #2: 2582fps
Shot #3: 2591fps
Shot #4: 2585fps
Shot #5: 2583fps

<span style="font-weight: bold">Average Velocity: 2586fps</span>
ES: 90
SD: 2

The AR10 jammed on the first round and each subsequent round walked pretty dramatic, so I stopped here with any further test of the AR10 platform.

<span style="font-weight: bold">**Accuracy**</span>

Accuracy with both the Harbinger and the Valkyrie was outstanding, the rifles both have 1/10 twist barrels and the 100 yard accuracy during the chronographing was well below 1/2 Minute. I would say without trying this ammunition out of these rifles is easily a .1 Mils, 1/3" was easy. As stated the AR10 was not even close to acceptable.

Long range accuracy out of the Harbinger was also excellent, they hit where the rifle was pointed every time. I saw no vertical deviations downrange even at distance, despite a heavy mirage.

Its performance like this that reinforces my contention that a short barreled 308 is better choice for the tactical shooter. These number will bring rifles with 22" or shorter barrels into the land of, not only the handloader, but the land of the 26" + barrels performance. its a no brainer to use this stuff from an 18.5" barrel, or even the 20" as with the Harbinger. The difference between the 22" Valkyrie and the 20.5" Harbinger is 13fps, however you cannot discount the benefits a shorter barrel will give you during movement, or even positional shooting.

As we state in every class, rules of thumb and text written back in the late 60's and early 70's isn't even close to valid today. We have such better bullets, barrels, and powders, it's stuff like this that rewrites the way we look at long range shooting.

 

[Dagsta]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

One word of caution, do not try and shoot this outstanding ammo in a match with your suppressor loose as you will be highly disappointed!!

 

[zink14]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">**Range Report 178gr Hornady BTHP Match Superformance**</span>

Over the weekend I acquired 2 cases of the Superformance 178gr Match ammunition, so I spent the morning checking the performance out of several rifles while I was here at Rifles Only.

The rifles used:

1. GAP Harbinger w/ 20.5" Rock Creek Barrel <span style="font-style: italic">(less than 200 rounds through the barrel)</span>

2. Sniper's Hide Valkyrie (GAP Built) w/ 22" Bartlien Barrel <span style="font-style: italic">(approximately 2000 rounds)</span>

3. GAP AR10 w/16" Bartlein Barrel and AAC 7.62SD Suppressor. <span style="font-style: italic">(approximately 3000 rounds)</span>

Chronograph used was a CED M2 with infrared sensors set at 10ft from muzzle

Conditions for the morning:

Temp. 75
Baro. 30.05
Density Alt. 1000ft
Wind 3 to 5MPH from the Northwest

I established baseline velocities using M118LR out of each rifle for comparison.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Rifle #1 "The Harbinger"</span>

Baseline MV 2635fps

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hornady Average Muzzle Velocity: 2747fps </span>

Cold Bore Shot #1 2756fps
Shot #2. 2745fps
Shot #3. 2742fps
Shot #4. 2750fps
Shot #5. 2743fps

ES: 14
SD: 4

Dope to 1000 yards:

300 yards: 1.2 Mils
400 yards: 2.0 Mils
500 yards: 3.0 Mils
600 yards: 4.1 Mils
700 yards: 5.2 Mils
800 yards: 6.7 Mils
900 yards: 7.8 Mils
1000 yards: 9.6 Mils

All verified to point of aim, point of impact with a minimum of 3 to 5 hits on target at each distance.

Average wind hold from 600 yards to 1000 yards with .3 Mils to .5 Mils

<span style="font-weight: bold">***Additional Velocities****</span>

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Sniper's Hide Valkyrie</span>

Baseline Velocity: 2701fps

Cold Bore Shot: 2744fps
Shot #2: 2753fps
Shot #3: 2766fps
Shot #4: 2776fps
Shot #5: 2764fps

<span style="font-weight: bold">Average Velocity: 2760fps</span>
ES: 32
SD: 11

<span style="text-decoration: underline">GAP AR10 w/ 16" Barrel</span>

Baseline Velocity: 2550fps

Cold Bore Shot # 1 2591fps
Shot #2: 2582fps
Shot #3: 2591fps
Shot #4: 2585fps
Shot #5: 2583fps

<span style="font-weight: bold">Average Velocity: 2586fps</span>
ES: 90
SD: 2

The AR10 jammed on the first round and each subsequent round walked pretty dramatic, so I stopped here with any further test of the AR10 platform.

<span style="font-weight: bold">**Accuracy**</span>

Accuracy with both the Harbinger and the Valkyrie was outstanding, the rifles both have 1/10 twist barrels and the 100 yard accuracy during the chronographing was well below 1/2 Minute. I would say without trying this ammunition out of these rifles is easily a .1 Mils, 1/3" was easy. As stated the AR10 was not even close to acceptable.

Long range accuracy out of the Harbinger was also excellent, they hit where the rifle was pointed every time. I saw no vertical deviations downrange even at distance, despite a heavy mirage.

Its performance like this that reinforces my contention that a short barreled 308 is better choice for the tactical shooter. These number will bring rifles with 22" or shorter barrels into the land of, not only the handloader, but the land of the 26" + barrels performance. its a no brainer to use this stuff from an 18.5" barrel, or even the 20" as with the Harbinger. The difference between the 22" Valkyrie and the 20.5" Harbinger is 13fps, however you cannot discount the benefits a shorter barrel will give you during movement, or even positional shooting.

As we state in every class, rules of thumb and text written back in the late 60's and early 70's isn't even close to valid today. We have such better bullets, barrels, and powders, it's stuff like this that rewrites the way we look at long range shooting. </div></div>

This ammo sounds like a game changer....I need some!

 

[JUtter]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Speaking of game changing, I stopped by the local gun shop today to see if they had any FGMM for the upcoming shoot at Taylorsville. They had a couple of boxes listed at $36, after asking them if that was a misprint I noticed they had 6 boxes of the Hornady 178 load sitting off to the side unmarked. I asked them how much it was and he said $21 a box. I left the store with all six boxes. I know the FGMM was way overpriced, but for the price and innovation Hornady has seemingly set a new standard. Based off of others reviews and the price this may become the new 308 factory load of choice for many.

 

[Reverend762]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I don't think my particular AR10 really likes this round.

I shot 20 rounds of this ammunition at a 300yrd range this last week with mixed results. I was shooting my POF P308 16.5" (1x10 twist) with Federal Gold Match 168gr with consistent tight shot groups, but when i made the switch to the Hornady ammunition, my four 5round shot groups had a few low fliers. I'll try some more in a few weeks and video my results.

 

[5R Milspec]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

ok guys after reading this two times now I have come to this.with most getting into the 2700fps range and looking at my new Alliant guid.I think it might be one of the newer Allinat powders.

my reason for this is based on two points of info.

1.they show a 175gn MBTH running 2720fps with Power Pro2000Lr at 47.7gn that is a small spherical powder

2.this is a quote from the guid The Power Pro series also enables reloaders to duplicate certain factory loaded ammunition for the ultimate in round to round consistency.

but hey I may and could be wrong.just need one of you guys to pull one and see if the powder fits any of the specs I listed.

and I'll have to say this.if you guys keep getting the results that you are.I cannot wait for them to release the bullets for reloading to try out myself.just hope that I am right about the powder.would be a shame for them not to release the powder too.

 

[Rob01]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

It's not an Alliant powder. It's made by St Marks(sp) and is not available, and I would guess not anytime soon either, to consumers.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Rob,
Why is it they put the reloading info on the box for the the 6.5C and not for this? Were they just trying to make it easier for shooters to make the switch to the 6.5C?

 

[Rob01]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Because the 6.5 Creedmoor was being loaded with powder that you can buy at any shop and to make it easier for the shooters as there wasn't any data in reloading manuals for it. There's really no use putting the data on the box if you can't get the powder right?

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

True...

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Rob,

I'm not feeling the love for us 300wsm guys from Hornady.

Can you say; <span style="font-weight: bold">Superformance™ 300wsm 208 gr AMAX.</span> I mean c'mon, can't a boy dream!

-Pat

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Or, to make things easy, I would settle for;

<span style="font-weight: bold">Superformance™ 300wsm 178 gr BTHP.</span>

-Pat

 

[ScottyS]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">**Range Report 178gr Hornady BTHP Match Superformance**</span>
As we state in every class, rules of thumb and text written back in the late 60's and early 70's isn't even close to valid today. We have such better bullets, barrels, and powders, it's stuff like this that rewrites the way we look at long range shooting. </div></div>

LL - since you were able to shoot so much of it:

1) Can you describe any difference in perceived recoil compared to M118LR?

2) Have you shot this into subsonic territory to see how the bullet behaves after transition?

You know, most of the new junk that comes out every year is somewhat redundant in practical terms, but things like this (and the powder research behind it) are refreshing.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

There was more recoil, but honestly it was not big deal, recoil is what it is, and when you are straight behind the rifle, it's not really an issue.

I only shot it too 1000 yards, the way the weather is, it would have been hard, as the mirage was terrible at 1000 yards, even from the tower, if I went to the extended range area it would have been near impossible to shoot that far and still see what was going on downrange.

There was a clear recoil difference which is why the AR10 didn't like it I suspect.

 

[ScottyS]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was more recoil, but honestly it was not big deal, recoil is what it is, and when you are straight behind the rifle, it's not really an issue.

I only shot it too 1000 yards, the way the weather is, it would have been hard, as the mirage was terrible at 1000 yards, even from the tower, if I went to the extended range area it would have been near impossible to shoot that far and still see what was going on downrange.

There was a clear recoil difference which is why the AR10 didn't like it I suspect. </div></div>

Yep, I was just curious to see if there was any difference.

Be interested to see where these projectiles stack in the subsonic stability list. I think this is somewhat barrel length/RPM dependent, but results are results.

I wonder if current gas gun design has issues with the different pressure curves to be found in the proprietary blends?

 

[SingleShot85]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

at a buck 1.30- 1.40 not a bad time saver.

 

[vmpglenn]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I just put 16 rounds of the 178gr Superformance through my KAC SR25 Enhanced Match Rifle 20" upper on my Enhanced Match Carbine lower. Scope is a NF F1 in NF 1.375" Unimount.

At 100yd, shooting off a bipod off a concrete bench, with variable winds blowing up to 10mph, and in a hurry (!), I was able to print near MOA groups. I did not notice any vertical stringing, and recoil was much more manageable than with the 16" Enhanced Match Carbine upper.

I did not chrono, but am expecting MV in the 2600-2650fps range.

Sorry for the crappy shooting...

 

[DayWalker]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

200 boxes just in @ 10-8 in NOLA.

 

[badbot]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

ETA 4/11/10 midway usa $26.99

 

[Froggy1129]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Rob01, when will Hornady make the bullet itself available?

 

[Rob01]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Not sure Froggy. Waiting to hear myself. Will be excellent round to load with that BC. Should be able to easily get it to 2700fps with Varget as I do that with the 178 AMAX now.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Kind of off the subject of the 178's but it would be nice to get the 75 or 77 grain 5.56 rounds in this. That extra 100-200 fps would do wonders for the 5.56 round in longer range stuff. It would really help the shorter barrel guys out too if HORNADY decides to use this advantage in their TAP line. For us AR guys that run short barrels that extra velocity would be freakin sweet. It would be nice to still be running around 2500 fps out of a 10.5 to 12.5 SBR with the heavier 75 ot 77 grain bullets. i wish the guys in IRAQ/Afghanistan had this advantage as well since their velocity is sub-par with the M4's. That extra
would help them out ALOT!

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Ran some of these through my guns today. I have a 26" PSS and a LA with a 20" LTR barrel screwed on it.

Here is a comparison between FGMM 175 and the New Hornady 178 in my rifles

26"
FGMM - 2666.2 fps average
Hornady - 2758.2 fps average

20"
FGMM - 2599 fps average
Hornady - 2655.4 fps average

I'm at about 1600 ft where I shoot and it was about 58 degrees this morning.

Accuracy is also very good in both rifles. I fired a 10 round group from the 20 incher. Total group size was .983 and if I subtract my two screw ups from the group it figures out as .3585 for 8 rounds!

I really like that shooting the Hornady from my 20 inch barrel is almost the same velocity as the FGMM 175 from my 26 inch barrel.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Here's a pic of the 10 round group.

 

[Froggy1129]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Did I mention that I was really wanting them to come out with the components? I can't wait to load these bullets and give'm a try

 

[Dagsta]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I'm averaging 2721 with 22" at 60deg with the Hornady!!

 

[Froggy1129]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

Rob01, you gotta do something! I just called Hornady and they said it would be next year before they sold the bullet as a component.

You think if we generated enough interest here we could get them to expedite?

 

[Grump]

Re: New Hornady 178 BTHP load

I just noticed that QuickLOAD lists a 178-gr Hornady 178-gr HPBT, not A-Max, in the bullets database. What's up with that?