New Hornady .30 cal 225

#51
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are the islands even long enough for a .416 lol. </div></div> Hell no,are you kidding me.
only if you get out to the Big Island and know somebody,you might get to shoot 1000 + yards.
the only other place here in Honolulu ,its out at Pu’uloa Range,wich is on base, and shoot alongside the service rifle matches once a month or so.and that is 600 max.they are starting an F-class now from what my friends tell me.also a 1000 yard shoot from what ive heard.
 
#53
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Where did you guys get the BC of .700? When I called Hornady a few weeks ago I saked about the 225 HPBT, & was told it's BC was only .670. That doens't do anything for me the 208/210 can't do in my 300WM. Just asking...
 
#54
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did you guys get the BC of .700? When I called Hornady a few weeks ago I saked about the 225 HPBT, & was told it's BC was only .670. That doens't do anything for me the 208/210 can't do in my 300WM. Just asking... </div></div>

Bigwheels,

Dave Tooley had guesstimated the BC at >7+ when doing his testing. Not sure if that was the stated goal from Hornady or his conclusions after shooting some. Hornady told me .660 so I'm guessing we don't know what the real world BC is yet.

And yes, you're right. We came to the same conclusion about the 225. It does virtually nothing for a 300WM guy unless you're looking for increased downrange energy. Bohem made a good observation that it is probably targeted at cartridges that would unravel a 208 due to too much velocity (and possible military contracts).

John
 
#55
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a hard on for the 208 A-max before it came out, and love the bullet. I have the same problem (enjoyment!) hearing about this bullet. Looking at some bullet length numbers (Greenhill calculations), and pushing it in a 300WM, a 1:11" twist should work just fine for this bullet. I can see pushing it around 2800-2850 fps without issue in a WM. </div></div>

I've been shooting an accuracy load in my 300wm for the 220gr SMK at about 2820 with good results... I can't wait to see these out somewhere.
 
#56
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bigwheels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did you guys get the BC of .700? When I called Hornady a few weeks ago I saked about the 225 HPBT, & was told it's BC was only .670. That doens't do anything for me the 208/210 can't do in my 300WM. Just asking... </div></div>

Bigwheels,

Dave Tooley had guesstimated the BC at >7+ when doing his testing. Not sure if that was the stated goal from Hornady or his conclusions after shooting some. Hornady told me .660 so I'm guessing we don't know what the real world BC is yet.

And yes, you're right. We came to the same conclusion about the 225. It does virtually nothing for a 300WM guy unless you're looking for increased downrange energy. Bohem made a good observation that it is probably targeted at cartridges that would unravel a 208 due to too much velocity (and possible military contracts).

John </div></div>

this is troublesome... Well, I hope to see some reviews soon.. ( if hornady ever actually makes them available to shoot some of them )

I get so pissed that you can't even get 208s anywhere... it doesn't make two shits that their bullets are great if you can't get them.
 
#57
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I get so pissed that you can't even get 208s anywhere... it doesn't make two shits that their bullets are great if you can't get them. </div></div>

I have seen 208's in stock here and there and apparently Midway is beginning to ship BO's.

John
 
#58
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwoolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I get so pissed that you can't even get 208s anywhere... it doesn't make two shits that their bullets are great if you can't get them. </div></div>

I have seen 208's in stock here and there and apparently Midway is beginning to ship BO's.

John </div></div>

Yeah, I just ordered 1000 from midsouth a couple of days ago.. there will be a few around for a short time.
smile.gif
 
#62
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Will be interesting to see if the new 225 offers anything over the 208Amax in real world shooting.

Not knowing what fps it's going to shoot at my guess is that it's minimal BC advantage won't be enough to overtake it's slower fps but only time will tell.
 
#63
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I too am anxious to see some real-world testing. Who would have thought that the .308 would be so successful with the .208 Amax and RL17? Sometimes you just have to try it.

But I am afraid that any real elevation advantages will not be readily apparent until at least 1200 yds. and then perhaps only past 1500.

One very important test would be to shoot them side-by-side in a steady cross wind at 1000 yds. This (wind) is where the 208 *really* shines and performs much better than the numbers would seem to indicate.

John
 
#64
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Exactly. You'll need about 2800 to 2850 to better the 208. I'm pretty sure the 225 can be pushed this fast with longer barrels and slow powder. Looking at the MK248 Mod 1 fps data Frank posted, they're getting 2970 and 2879 fps with the 220 grain SMK military loads. I know these loads are HOT, but you should be running resonable speeds a little slower than this. Running the numbers, the 225 will extend your effective range about 100-200 yards (supersonic speed). I'll also try to tip the 225 to improve on the BC. But I'm not sure if the jacket will allow this or not til I try. The advertised BC is .670. If we can tip them, a .690 to .697 G1 BC should be doable. That would make an awesome 300WM load!
 
#65
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Chad,

I'm building a long barreled .30 cal magnum for my son while he's in Iraq. Fallback is 300WM, but we're exploring other more powerful options as well. So I'm watching this with interest, as we have not chosen a reamer yet.

It would be very interesting to see how these fly from the 30-375R, 300 Jazz or the 300 Hulk. They *have* to be a better choice than the 240 SMK.

John
 
#67
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The trick with this bullet would be able to seat it out well past normal mag length of 3.340". My 208 load is 3.6"+, and this bullet should be about the same COAL length. Just plan for a long COAL to stuff as much slow powder as you can! </div></div>

Yeah, if we do end up with a WM, we'll throat long and single feed. Mine is 3.650" to .010" off the lands with the Amax and we get pretty good velocity (nearly 2900 fps) from a 22" barrel. QL predicts 3050-3075 from a 30" barrel at that powder load and COAL, so I would think 2950'ish should be doable with the 225.

It would still be nice to have enough powder to punch those out at 3050-3100 though.
grin.gif
Makes for some rather impressive .30 cal JBM numbers.

John
 
#69
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

My first pick to try will be Retumbo. But what I'll do is load up 1 round each in .5 grain increments from the book middle powder range (between min and max) of the 220 grain SMK, and load it up to slightly over book max with H1000 and Retumbo. I'll shoot them over a chrono looking for pressure, and stop when I get pressure. This way I'll know what speeds are possible with each powder, and work with the powder that gives me the most fps. I want to play with this bullet out LOOONG! I'll get an ogive measurement to measure the bearing surface length and compare it to the 220 SMK. If it's similar, then I'll use the 220 SMK as good reload data. If the bearing surface is longer, then I'll adjust the load down a little.
 
#71
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Having a 30-338Lap Imp built just for the heavies. Seems the bigger cases really start to shine with the heavier pills.

The 208Amax has had such great success, both hunting and paper, that it will probably be my go to bullet unless these 225's prove to be better. But, like I already mentioned, I'm concerned the slight BC edge the 225 has won't be enough to overtake the faster 208Amax.

I'm thinking I'll be able to push the 208 somewhere around 3300 give or take out of a 28in tube.
 
#72
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having a 30-338Lap Imp built just for the heavies. Seems the bigger cases really start to shine with the heavier pills.

The 208Amax has had such great success, both hunting and paper, that it will probably be my go to bullet unless these 225's prove to be better. But, like I already mentioned, I'm concerned the slight BC edge the 225 has won't be enough to overtake the faster 208Amax.

I'm thinking I'll be able to push the 208 somewhere around 3300 give or take out of a 28in tube. </div></div>

An easy way to bracket when you should shoot the 208s over the 225s is easy to do with JBM. Figure out where the wind drift of the faster MV'd 208 loses to the 225's and just keep that in mind when shooting them.

Case in point:

My 260 shoots 123 Amax's from a gas gun @ 2925, the 140's are much slower at 2700fps. Using that data and an average day around me, I just figured out where the wind drift for a 10mph full value wind was lower for the 140's. There is a time when the 123's are a better choice, but there's about a 18% difference in BC, so it isn't long before the 140's overtake the 123.


My suspicion though is that with the very good BC on the 208's and the advertised BC on the 225's only being about 5% higher than the known BC of the 208 it will be a LOOOOONG way downrange before the 225's have less drift and are retaining more thump than the faster 208s.

The 30-338 LM Imp. is a little heavier duty than the 300 Hulk, Tom Sarver has said that he can push the 208's until they blow up in a 10 twist, a little above 3300fps. He can get the 240 SMK's to 3000, and that bullet has a very long bearing surface, expect to get the 225's a good bit faster than them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NTRP-CKA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It says the BC is .670 on Midway. Is that what your still factoring? Big difference between that and .711 </div></div>

0.711 isn't quite applicable. It's a 2500fps+ G1 only. If you're going to compare average G1's to average G1's then 0.647 (or 0.649?) is what Bryan Litz published on the 240 SMK.

0.670 sounds high for these Hornady's, they were advertised initially at 0.660 if I remember right, and those BC's have a tendency to be about 6-8% high on average in my experience.
 
#73
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I don't remember where the .711 number came from... probably somebody's wishful thinking. I know that initially Dave Tooley was thinking over .7, but real world turned out to be under, but I don't think he ever did give us a solid number.

John
 
#74
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I thought CKA was talking about the 240 SMK, that's the G1 that Sierra publishes for it, which has caused more than one discussion on here about "how wonderfully efficient" the 240 SMK is. Precise? Absolutely, it's a good bullet and well built, but it is not an agressive, highly efficient jacketed shape.
 
#75
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I'm not sure I'll be able to shoot the 240's, 220smks yes, my tube is going to be a 1-10tw don't think that will be fast enough for those. Went with the 1-10 over a 1-9 because the 208Amax will probably be my go to bullet and we were afraid the 1-9 would blow them up a little sooner than a 1-10. I'm actually hoping to be able to launch the 208Amax at or close to 3400 out of the 1-10 and with a little luck they won't blow up before they hit the target but this could be alot of wishful thinking on my part. I know the 210SMK will handle the fps but I like the Amax better and I doubt the 210Berger VLD will even handle 3300 so I won't even go down that road.
 
#79
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I saw a picture of one of these new BTHP from Hornady and the tip/point looked just like the 300gr .338 Scenar. I don't recall if it was the 285gr .338cal or the 225gr .30cal

That's good to know that my 1-10tw will stabilize the 240's. I kinda had a hunch they could work in a 1-10tw if they were launched fairly fast.
 
#81
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

jrob300, thank you for sharing the great comparison to the 7mm 180g known quantity on JBM - very close.

Yes we will all see if the BC on the .30 225 Hornady is as calculated over time. Theory and real world results sometimes do not match. Excited to see how these do in 30-06, 300WM, and 300 RUM among others. Wonder to myself, what will push them the best: 30-375 Ruger, 30-378, 30-338 LM (also called 300LM), 300 RUM, etc. Hope to see more real-world load with result information here as we gain opportunity to try these new bullets out when become more common.

Seems if can get these things moving could have less deflection and more thump at distance. Some guns may not be able to get this heavier bullet moving fast enough to gain advantage over the other many 30 cal bullet selections already available. Lighter bullets in cartridges with less powder capacity may still perform better, depending on distance / application (specifically wonder how these will do in a 30-06 or maybe even a .308). What is the smallest 30 cal these will work better in? Time will tell as more results get shared.
 
#82
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

The .7 + BC number I reported was a calculated number I was given last spring and in testing out to 2K at that time it was pretty close. We all know there seems to be some shrinkage with these numbers but we're guys so we understand shrinkage. They do come with a secondary tip. Which from my experience for whatever reason makes the meplat diameter variations less of a factor. I'll take that one improvement over a super high BC any day.
 
#87
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Sounds great but I sure hope they have a higher velocity ceiling than the .338 300's cause those suck if you shoot them much over about 2850fps.

Those thin little jackets on heavier bullets don't like the fps some of these wildcats are capable of.
 
#88
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: samson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds great but I sure hope they have a higher velocity ceiling than the .338 300's cause those suck if you shoot them much over about 2850fps.

Those thin little jackets on heavier bullets don't like the fps some of these wildcats are capable of. </div></div>

I would guess that is why it's taken so long... learning from the 300 Hybrid, but I'm just guessing.

I'll start a new thread so we don't make this one a clusterf**k.

John
 
#89
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Anyone got a bearing surface # yet? (jrob)... I'm thinking about getting a box to try out. Mostly to replace my 220SMK's, & to see if they are as accurate as the 220 in my rifle.(220SMK shot .187 moa @ 300yd during work up @ 2811 ave. fps.)
These appear to have a lot of potential. FFS shows them @ 2811 fps to be SS out to 1450yd with the published BC of .670, & 1500yd with the .711 BC. That, & being only $33.00/box, I like it.(as long as I can get to at least 2800+ fps with them)
 
#90
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I broke down & ordered a box. I got them today, & after I moly'd them & started loading some for a ladder test I quickly fond out that they were seating harder than normal, & were actually sticking in my die, so I mic'd them, & they measured .3085"-.309"? Just to make sure I mic'd some of my 210 VLD's moly'd, & they measured .308"-.3085", & they work fine in my seating die. I only loaded up 4, & all but one was sticky in my die, & all left hard rings on the ogive. I can't contact anyone @ Hornady 'till Monday. Disappointing.
 
#91
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

OK. I got the kinks worked out, & did a ladder test about a week ago with retumbo, & H-1000. Yesterday I took the resulting loads out to test for group, & chrony them. It was pretty blustery with winds gusting to 15 mph. Testing was done @ 350yds with a 300WM 28" 10tw krieger.
I have a tight chamber with a short throat. OAL to ogive in my gun is only 2.772" so I can't get as much powder in as some with longer throats. My 208 A Max load @ 2950 still out performs the 225's @ the MV I'm getting.
Load #1 was 76.1gr Retumbo- Ave MV was 2838 High ES, & high vert dispersion.
Load #2 was 76.5gr Retumbo-Ave MV 2852 ES-15, & sub moa group.
Load #3 was 73.2gr H-1000-Ave MV was only 2789 but group was sub moa.
Load #3 was 73.7gr H-1000-Ave MV 2813, & group was also sub moa.
I'm going to load up 20 with the 76.5gr Retumbo for testing @ 700 yds next time.
This load shows real promise in my gun. But it will have to be a real tack driver to get me to switch from the A Max.
 
#92
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I got some of these 225gr. loaded up for the range.
I will post the results.

225gr. Hornady BTHP
H-1000
73.5gr., 74.0gr., 74.5gr., 75.0gr.,75.5gr.,76.0gr.

Winchester Brass (new)
Fed. GMM 215M Primer
OAL- 3.550"
Ogive- 2.883"
.332" Bushing used

26" Bartlien Barrel 1-10 Twist
 
#94
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I'm still shooting them. Have a load in my 300Wm that gives 2865fps, & went 3 for 5 @ 1950 yds with them last weekend on a 18" X 30" silohette.Conditions were heavy mirage, with variable winds from 3-10 mph, & 71*F. Needed 80 1/4 moa, & 4 1/4 wind. I need to get some more, but powder valley is out.
 
#95
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I did a quick velocity and pressure check on these this morning after I was done with a client's load development. 700P 300WM in AICS. I seated the rounds extremely long and ran up to 78gr of Retumbo @ 2815 fps with no pressure. I've got a base line now to play with and see where it goes from there.
 
#96
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I have some on order. My 30-378 will shoot 240 SMK's at 3100 comfortably (34 in barrel) Maybe these will hit 3200 (less bearing surface, lighter) maybe 3250. I will test and report what I find.
 
#97
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I shot the 225's this past weekend in a small shooting match. They shot very well (minus the problem of my rear ring coming loose). I shot it to 1100 yards with good accuracy in my TRG. It hits steel HARD! I'm running Nosler brass, CCI 250's, and Retumbo powder. I loaded up 76.4 grains and estimate the velocity at around ~2870 fps. 77.0 grains gave me slight pressure signs. I ran my drop chart at 2850, and everything was shooting a little high, so it's running faster than that. I also used .680 G1 BC. I'll be testing some more loads with this bullet. I will now be shooting this bullet exclusively in my 300WM.
 
#98
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

Good to hear someone else has got them working.. I see you are getting about the same velocity as I am with the same charge.(I'm @ 76.5 retumbo) I'm curious about the BC tho. As I'm using a cheap Shootin-Chrony for my velocity, & had great results using the .711 BC. I wonder if I'm actually faster, & the .680 BC is correct. I haven't actually shot them closer than 750yd, except to verify my 100yd zero. They do hit very hard too. On both ends. I noticed a definite difference in felt recoil. I'm also going to be switching to these, when Powder Valley has some again, but I'll keep some 208 A Max's to try out on game this year. At least until I get the 225's into some testing medium to see how they expand, etc.
 
#99
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I'll have more solid data once I chrono the load, and have known come-ups at distance. I totally estimating the .680 BC. I do know I was shooting flatter than my drop chart with 2850 fps and .680 BC as my main data. So, one of the two (or probably both) are off a little.
 
#100
Re: New Hornady .30 cal 225

I started in the same place as you, & after I crony'd them @ 2865 I used a .680 BC for testing, & was shooting way high, so I switched to the .711 BC, & still needed a DK adjustment on FFS. But with that data I'm close enough to get on @ 2000 yd with only 1 moa off. I think that was actually a range estimation error,(10yd gave the right dope to make hits) as I had to use a GPS to range the TGT, & It had a 20+/- foot error on both ends.
 
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