New Leofoto Anvil Copy

[earthquake]

I'm pretty sure every tripod but RRS is made in Chyna: Two-Vets, Vortex, Athlon, Leofoto....who else?

Maybe that group Frank mentioned a while back, Colorado Tripod Co(?) are made here?

 

[Arc Light]

No but they own the IP on an anvil 30 that was directly ripped off and I bet the probably trademarked SOAR that was also directly ripped off.

Can't argue with that and I agree. That's why I bought an RRS Vyce and not a copy. I would have preferred to buy an RRS tripod as well, but just couldn't justify the cost for my casual use.

 

[MarinePMI]

Assembled there, sure. But where are they sourcing their carbon fiber? There aren't very many places in the world making carbon fiber tubes for tripods.

Since their tripod legs are made from a proprietary weave, I'm guessing it' made in the US as well. No one sends anything proprietary to China unless they don't want it proprietary for long....

 

[cattleman99]

Are the two vets tripods made in China?

Go get a shadow tech. Those are made in Taiwan and those fuckers need all the help they can get.

Two Vets are made in China, all though they have a hard time admitting it. More than likely in the same exact factory as Leofoto.

 

[MPHReallyRightStuff]

Most companies source outside US. The point is the bulk of their products are made and assembled in the US.

Maybe @MPHReallyRightStuff can answer without giving up their whole recipe.

Our Carbon comes from here (UT), we try to source 100% of our raw materials US based which is a major PITA, but a goal of ours.

Again everything is designed, machined, coated, etc here in the US, mostly in Utah, aside from the soft goods which is changing soon. Sourcing from US isn't easy, and it appears some people in the industry could care less, but we still hold that moral close.

In regards to the OP, our biggest fan loves our designs, and it shows. I wont compare our products to theirs but I'll say, they pay us tribute in using our trademarked division name, photoshopping our rifles and customer service reps onto their products for use on their site. It is supposedly the ultimate form of flattery. Up to you if you want to reward it, as far as the tripod market there are a few in the US that do what we do, and a bunch of other great tripod companies in other countries as well.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

No but they own the IP on an anvil 30 that was directly ripped off and I bet the probably trademarked SOAR that was also directly ripped off.

160th called and would like their kickass sounding name back.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

In regards to the OP, our biggest fan loves our designs, and it shows. I wont compare our products to theirs but I'll say, they pay us tribute in using our trademarked division name, photoshopping our rifles and customer service reps onto their products for use on their site. It is supposedly the ultimate form of flattery. Up to you if you want to reward it, as far as the tripod market there are a few in the US that do what we do, and a bunch of other great tripod companies in other countries as well.

Why isn't RSS enforcing it's IP?

 

[b6graham]

Why isn't RSS enforcing it's IP?

how are you going to? is it worth the cost to fight it?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

how are you going to? is it worth the cost to fight it?

IP is only worth one's ability to enforce it. If you can't or won't enforce it then there's no IP. Crying on the internet doesn't constitute enforcement which is probably why Leofoto does what it does.

 

[akmike47]

I know one thing is for sure: I was made in the USA

Glad you know the story of the location where your dad nut in your mom.

 

[HousePlant]

Glad you know the story of the location where your dad nut in your mom.

Yep. Manager's office of a 7-11, actually.

 

[mikkyc]

Bought Swarovski like 15 years ago. Never looked back.

 

[Lunchbox27]

I cannot stand knock offs! This is why I only order from Amazon!

 

[aard3]

1.) If RRS has IP on the Avil-30, they could try to get Customs to enforce it and seize shipments coming in... my company does that sometimes... but it's pretty hit or miss and tons of stuff gets through.

2.) There is plenty of competition in Tripods... ProMediaGear is US Made (but just as pricey as RRS), Manfrotto, Gitzo, plus there are all the foreign brands. Trying to say "there needs to be more competition" as an excuse for buying a total-knockoff is just b.s.

3.) There is a difference between a tripod made in china, and one that is made in china and is an exact copy of a US made tripod... I try not to buy Chinese goods when I can buy US made... but I don't have a problem with something being made overseas... I have a problem when they copy/counterfeit stuff.

 

[Scott Seigmund]

Why isn't RSS enforcing it's IP?

Actually, they do enforce their IP.

Patents | RRS SOAR

soar.reallyrightstuff.com

ANVIL-30 Ball Head​

Patent No:
11,085,736 B2

NOTICE TO PUBLIC: CURRENT LEGAL ACTION​

JULY 15, 2021 Really Right Stuff, LLC vs Field Optics Research, Inc.



Really Right Stuff, LLC filed a patent infringement lawsuit against Field Optics Research, Inc. on June 2, 2020 together with an amended complaint on January 11, 2021, in the United States District Court of Utah. The Really Right Stuff complaint alleges that Field Optics Research has infringed U.S. Patent No. 6,773,172 (Quick-Release Clamp For Photographic Equipment); U.S. Patent No. 10,612,718 (Dual Clamping Device); and U.S. Patent No. 10,585,337 (Panoramic Camera Mount). Really Right Stuff alleges that at least the following products are infringed by Field Optics Research; FBH-44DT; FBH-55DT; FBH-55FDT; FBT-ASPL; FBT-ASFPL; FBT-ASFPL; FBT-ASPL-NP; FBT5646C-ASFPL/S; FBT5436C-ASFPL/S; FBT5646C-ASFPL/S; FBT5436C-ASFPL. Really Right Stuff is seeking remedies including a permanent injunction against Field Optics Research’s unlawful infringement, monetary damages in an amount sufficient to compensate Really Right Stuff for such infringement, triple damages because of the willful and deliberate nature of the infringement, and a declaration that the case is exceptional together with reasonable attorney fees.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Actually, they do enforce their IP.

Patents | RRS SOAR

soar.reallyrightstuff.com

ANVIL-30 Ball Head​

Patent No:
11,085,736 B2

NOTICE TO PUBLIC: CURRENT LEGAL ACTION​

JULY 15, 2021 Really Right Stuff, LLC vs Field Optics Research, Inc.



Really Right Stuff, LLC filed a patent infringement lawsuit against Field Optics Research, Inc. on June 2, 2020 together with an amended complaint on January 11, 2021, in the United States District Court of Utah. The Really Right Stuff complaint alleges that Field Optics Research has infringed U.S. Patent No. 6,773,172 (Quick-Release Clamp For Photographic Equipment); U.S. Patent No. 10,612,718 (Dual Clamping Device); and U.S. Patent No. 10,585,337 (Panoramic Camera Mount). Really Right Stuff alleges that at least the following products are infringed by Field Optics Research; FBH-44DT; FBH-55DT; FBH-55FDT; FBT-ASPL; FBT-ASFPL; FBT-ASFPL; FBT-ASPL-NP; FBT5646C-ASFPL/S; FBT5436C-ASFPL/S; FBT5646C-ASFPL/S; FBT5436C-ASFPL. Really Right Stuff is seeking remedies including a permanent injunction against Field Optics Research’s unlawful infringement, monetary damages in an amount sufficient to compensate Really Right Stuff for such infringement, triple damages because of the willful and deliberate nature of the infringement, and a declaration that the case is exceptional together with reasonable attorney fees.

And how did it go? Leofoto has been using "SOAR" for a couple of years and now have a direct copy of the Anvil 30 without the IP protected lever. A very casual search makes me think "SOAR" is public domain. I'm guessing the tightening mechanism on the Anvil 30 is also public domain but it may be too early for RRS to litigate the copy.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Patents for basic mechanisms and shapes are a joke.

Its not revolutionary. Somebody else has done something similar somewhere. Making your version and getting the governments stamp of approval that yours is just enough different to be special.

I could patent a spoon, its still just a fucking spoon.

 

[Scott Seigmund]

S.O.A.R. Logo​

Trademark Registration: No 5,336,374

 

[Cascade Hemi]

S.O.A.R. Logo​

Trademark Registration: No 5,336,374

Do you think the trademark is enforceable when gun companies have been making guns and accessories under the SOAR title for at least 20 years? FerFran comes to mind readily and why I said I think I it's use is public domain. Just because a trademark exists doesn't make it enforceable.

 

[_Windrider_]

Do you think the trademark is enforceable when gun companies have been making guns and accessories under the SOAR title for at least 20 years? FerFran comes to mind readily and why I said I think I it's use is public domain. Just because a trademark exists doesn't make it enforceable.

SOAR or S.O.A.R.? And yeah trademarks are enforceable. My employer sues the shit out of people infringing on the brand trademark.

But I think the gist of this thread has been hashed out. It’s up to you to make a personal choice on what you stand for. But hey I get it, money might be made from trees but it doesn’t grow on it. But fuck China three ways from yesterday.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

SOAR or S.O.A.R.? And yeah trademarks are enforceable. My employer sues the shit out of people infringing on the brand trademark.

But I think the gist of this thread has been hashed out. It’s up to you to make a personal choice on what you stand for. But hey I get it, money might be made from trees but it doesn’t grow on it. But fuck China three ways from yesterday.

S.O.A.R. The acronym. Type it into Google. Let's be honest, RRS took a known acronym and even introduced their own knock off tripod rifle clamp. I'm not going to spend a ton of time searching but it doesn't appear RRS tries to enforce all of its IP, why?

 

[AleksanderSuave]

1.) If RRS has IP on the Avil-30, they could try to get Customs to enforce it and seize shipments coming in... my company does that sometimes... but it's pretty hit or miss and tons of stuff gets through.

2.) There is plenty of competition in Tripods... ProMediaGear is US Made (but just as pricey as RRS), Manfrotto, Gitzo, plus there are all the foreign brands. Trying to say "there needs to be more competition" as an excuse for buying a total-knockoff is just b.s.

3.) There is a difference between a tripod made in china, and one that is made in china and is an exact copy of a US made tripod... I try not to buy Chinese goods when I can buy US made... but I don't have a problem with something being made overseas... I have a problem when they copy/counterfeit stuff.

Point #3 covers the summary of the argument.

The issue here isnt that its made in China, the issue is that its a direct KNOCKOFF of a US made product, and the chinese could give a shit less about IP.

Its also not "required" to send them anything to see a knockoff pop up in the market. They can similarly find a popular product and buy it themselves to 'deconstruct', and you'll only find out about it when its for sale, like this.

Please stop using "availability" as your justification for buying a knockoff. Buy another brand, or buy one used. There's ALWAYS another option.

I remember seeing some thread here where the owner of B&T chimed in, after seeing some guy defending buying an Atlas knockoff due to B&T not serving his "price point". Its got to have been one of the most degrading experiences possible, to see someone defend stealing your work, because they dont think its "worth" your asking price.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Point #3 covers the summary of the argument.

The issue here isnt that its made in China, the issue is that its a direct KNOCKOFF of a US made product, and the chinese could give a shit less about IP.

Its also not "required" to send them anything to see a knockoff pop up in the market. They can similarly find a popular product and buy it themselves to 'deconstruct', and you'll only find out about it when its for sale, like this.

Please stop using "availability" as your justification for buying a knockoff. Buy another brand, or buy one used. There's ALWAYS another option.

I remember seeing some thread here where the owner of B&T chimed in, after seeing some guy defending buying an Atlas knockoff due to B&T not serving his "price point". Its got to have been one of the most degrading experiences possible, to see someone defend stealing your work, because they dont think its "worth" your asking price.

Really show me all the used TV22I and Anvil 30s out there. I will wait.

People are buying another brand. One they can get today that has the features they want, specifically a 2 leg tripod with locks at the top (2 Vets is at bottom for some retarded reason)

RRS should feel the pain for not meeting market demand. They want to own the market space while not servicing it. Fuck em

I shoot a RRS tripod/Anvil and will still end up buying one of these because I can actually get it and use it when I need it, not when RRS decides i have the privilege of ordering one.

 

[carbonbased]

Bunch of entitled poors (or more likely “cheaps”) on this thread…

It would be amusing to see these folks’ job offshored because their own customers didn’t want to pay them enough to, ya know, eat.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Bunch of entitled poors (or more likely “cheaps”) on this thread…

It would be amusing to see these folks’ job offshored because their own customers didn’t want to pay them enough to, ya know, eat.

How much money in RRS gear do you own? Want to know so we can figure out where the poor line is.

 

[carbonbased]

How much money in RRS gear do you own? Want to know so we can figure out where the poor line is.

If you have to ask…




Ok, that was snarky. I have had RRS gear from my photo days, from before the current owner of RRS. I also own a current RRS tripod and Vyce.

I really, really, really didn’t want to blow the cash for that RRS tripod + Vyce. I made a massive spreadsheet and calculated the specs of a bunch of brands (including wooden tripods) until I was blue in the face. I was going to get the Field Optics high end model until I found out that the legs come from China even though, at the time, they marketed them as Made in USA.

I finally uncheapened myself, got the RRS, and it is really nice.

We all operate in our own self-interest, mostly. I’m trying to take the long-term self-interested viewpoint, where living in a country full of people making a decent income is preferable.

Short-term self-interest can mean you just buy whatever fits the bill a a certain price, country of origin be damned. In my view, that just increases the odds of existing with a shit-ton of living-paycheck-to-paycheck people (or worse) with a few billionaire goons running the show.

It’s all trade-offs.

Edit: it pains me to say this, but I do own some shortish Leofoto titanium spike feet for my RRS tripod. Couldn’t find anyone else that made them.

AFAIK, RRS still doesn’t make titanium feet. Those long-ass stainless RRS spikes weigh quite a bit. Making things that the market wants, filling a niche, now this is the sort of thing that makes sense. Farking exactly copying a product, on the other hand, is not cool (pretend it was the thing your company makes).

 

[Tokay444]

#NukeChina

 

[AuNEagle]

I purchased a RRS TVC-33 Versa Tripod with a BH-55 ball head and B2-AS-II lever release clamp back in 2010 for my photography hobby. At that time anyway, RRS was very proud of the fact that everything that went into this equipment was American made all the way down to the smallest fasteners. Going on 12 years later and "medium-duty" use, both the tripod and ball head are in like new condition. And more recently this same setup also works great as a rifle support.

I understand the frustration of the out-of-stock issues, but like I did back in 2010, I'll always be willing to pay more for a higher-quality American made item as long as the quality is commensurate with the price.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Its a business model to keep your production small and only put out limited supply.

 

[Kentucreed6]

Some folks around here act as if the next guy doesn’t have $1500 to buy a RRS tripod that they aren’t allowed to have one at all. Some of you and your poors bullshit I guess have all that money to blow bc you live with momma still or can’t get no pussy or something else. Probably can’t back up your tough guy talk either. If there isn’t another more affordable option made in the USA where exactly do I have your permission to purchase my gear?

 

[kriller134]

Some folks around here act as if the next guy doesn’t have $1500 to buy a RRS tripod that they aren’t allowed to have one at all. Some of you and your poors bullshit I guess have all that money to blow bc you live with momma still or can’t get no pussy or something else. Probably can’t back up your tough guy talk either. If there isn’t another more affordable option made in the USA where exactly do I have your permission to purchase my gear?

Are you poor? jk man. It’s not that you have to buy RRS. The point is to not support a CCP company that’s ripping off an American company.

 

[M4guru]

It is a lot of money, no doubt. $1500 is a big chunk of money for almost everyone. If all things were equal I'm sure all of us in the US would buy US. As you pointed out they're not equal though.

I don't think people are upset about Chinese tripods, there are plenty of good reviews of various made-in-China tripods on here (Leofoto included).

People are riled up over stealing RRS' IP, trademarks, and marketing materials. Made in China is one thing, but stolen by China is another. If they had come up with a different way to execute the concept at a better value, I doubt we'd have the response we've got here. We'll always have the "Fuck China no matter what" crowd. I assume they're typing that from the only iPhone made in America or some shit.

TL;DR: we hate them because they're thieves, not cause they're cheaper or Chinese.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Lololol, IP's, trademarks, copyrights... blah blah blah

As a consumer I honestly couldnt give two flying fks about patents or trademarks and honoring some bullshit beurocratic system.

I have a need for a product. Fill the need or get the fuck out of the way and let somone else do it.

Every one of you has products made in China so dont get all high and mighty.

That being said FUCK CHINA. If I could flip a switch and stop everything coming from there, I would and yes it would be a disaster but we would figure it out, pick up the pieces, and be better off in the long run.

 

[_Windrider_]

Lololol, IP's, trademarks, copyrights... blah blah blah

As a consumer I honestly couldnt give two flying fks about patents or trademarks and honoring some bullshit beurocratic system.

I have a need for a product. Fill the need or get the fuck out of the way and let somone else do it.

Every one of you has products made in China so dont get all high and mighty.

That being said FUCK CHINA. If I could flip a switch and stop everything coming from there, I would and yes it would be a disaster but we would figure it out, pick up the pieces, and be better off in the long run.

You should develop research and design a product. Then feed your family off of it and when some chicom company rips it off and sells it for 50% less, come back and update this thread and see if you feel the same way.

 

[JB.IC]

Some folks around here act as if the next guy doesn’t have $1500 to buy a RRS tripod that they aren’t allowed to have one at all. Some of you and your poors bullshit I guess have all that money to blow bc you live with momma still or can’t get no pussy or something else. Probably can’t back up your tough guy talk either. If there isn’t another more affordable option made in the USA where exactly do I have your permission to purchase my gear?

Don’t be fooled. Most are up to their eyeballs in debt

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

You should develop research and design a product. Then feed your family off of it and when some chicom company rips it off and sells it for 50% less, come back and update this thread and see if you feel the same way.

As if somone else couldnt have come up with a pet rock. But now they cant because copyright, patent, IP. Anybody could do it. Anybody could eventually come up with an idea for a product. Cornering the market is a joke. You have a window to profit and make your money.

Difference between a Rolex and Casio when you just need a watch.

 

[Oryx]

As if somone else couldnt have come up with a pet rock. But now they cant because copyright, patent, IP. Anybody could do it. Anybody could eventually come up with an idea for a product. Cornering the market is a joke. You have a window to profit and make your money.

Difference between a Rolex and Casio when you just need a watch.

Not sure what that analogy has to do with patent infringement?

 

[308pirate]

IP is only worth one's ability to enforce it. If you can't or won't enforce it then there's no IP. Crying on the internet doesn't constitute enforcement which is probably why Leofoto does what it does.

Have you ever tried enforcing your IP against chinese companies?

 

[theLBC]

Some folks around here act as if the next guy doesn’t have $1500 to buy a RRS tripod that they aren’t allowed to have one at all. Some of you and your poors bullshit I guess have all that money to blow bc you live with momma still or can’t get no pussy or something else. Probably can’t back up your tough guy talk either. If there isn’t another more affordable option made in the USA where exactly do I have your permission to purchase my gear?

i think it will be helpful for your sanity if you try not to take everything personally.
there is nothing compelling you to defend your budget choices or patriotism.
i often berate people for shopping at walmart but that is silently directed at the rich folks that can afford to put principle above price, and not at poors who have more bills than money.

i think lots of people could afford things if they budgeted differently.
i am sick of people complaining about their student loans while holding a cup of over-priced coffee they buy every fucking day.
not saying you are one of them. i am a "fucking poor" but have an RRS tripod because i gave up a lot of other stuff.

 

[308pirate]

As if somone else couldnt have come up with a pet rock. But now they cant because copyright, patent, IP. Anybody could do it. Anybody could eventually come up with an idea for a product. Cornering the market is a joke. You have a window to profit and make your money.

Difference between a Rolex and Casio when you just need a watch.

Like @TacticalDillhole said, invest your intellectual and financial capital into creating an innovation, then you might have standing to criticize.

Otherwise, no one gives a shit if you think patent protection shouldn't exist

 

[308pirate]

Some folks around here act as if the next guy doesn’t have $1500 to buy a RRS tripod that they aren’t allowed to have one at all. Some of you and your poors bullshit I guess have all that money to blow bc you live with momma still or can’t get no pussy or something else. Probably can’t back up your tough guy talk either. If there isn’t another more affordable option made in the USA where exactly do I have your permission to purchase my gear?

Buddly?

 

[Tokay444]

Some folks around here act as if the next guy doesn’t have $1500 to buy a RRS tripod that they aren’t allowed to have one at all. Some of you and your poors bullshit I guess have all that money to blow bc you live with momma still or can’t get no pussy or something else. Probably can’t back up your tough guy talk either. If there isn’t another more affordable option made in the USA where exactly do I have your permission to purchase my gear?

From not an exact rip off.
/

 

[davethedog]

Still doesn't have a quick release lever like the anvil. Even if I wanted to buy a knockoff I wouldn't want to fiddle with a thumb screw to secure my rifle to the rail.

 

[Turbwhistle]

I would have to think, that if RRS is so back logged that you can’t back order products, that they probably aren’t hurting. And i doubt the people buying leofoto stuff are the ones who would instead be buying from RRS.

So, i’d have to think while it sucks leofoto stole RRS design, the companies leofoto is really hurting is an American company selling cheaper tripods because people who have RRS money, own RRS products. And those who can’t afford it probably buy the leofoto, then later on become RRS owners when they are in a position where they can buy it.

Why spend the $1500 when you first start out when you also need to build a rifle, optics, bags, a reloader, components?

 

[theLBC]

Have you ever tried enforcing your IP against chinese companies?

i worked for a company that sold a product to a big box store.
they kept asking for a lower and lower price with each order, and basically said if we don't meet the price, they would have them made elsewhere and we can take that company in china to court. they came and saw how much manual labor where was and the buyer could calculate the cost savings if moved that labor offshore. my boss caved and started a maquiladora in mexico, laying off a dozen or more americans.

 

[theLBC]

I would have to think, that if RRS is so back logged that you can’t back order products, that they probably aren’t hurting. And i doubt the people buying leofoto stuff are the ones who would instead be buying from RRS.

So, i’d have to think while it sucks leofoto stole RRS design, the companies leofoto is really hurting is an American company selling cheaper tripods because people who have RRS money, own RRS products. And those who can’t afford it probably buy the leofoto, then later on become RRS owners when they are in a position where they can buy it.

Why spend the $1500 when you first start out when you also need to build a rifle, optics, bags, a reloader, components?

the answer is, you don't have to, and many will be completely satisfied with less costly options (per testimonials here).
the buy once, cry once argument is one reason to spend the money up front, instead of paying $500 for a chinese tripod, only to pony up the big bucks eventually anyway, because you found there is a difference (to you) that matters (to you).

i justified it as a poor because i am old and don't want my family to inherit nothing but cheap chinese copies of quality american products.

 

[_Windrider_]

the answer is, you don't have to, and many will be completely satisfied with less costly options (per testimonials here).
the buy once, cry once argument is one reason to spend the money up front (instead of paying $500 for a chinese tripod, only to pony up the big bucks eventually anyway, because you found there is a difference (to you) that matters (to you).

i justified it as a poor because i am old and don't want my family to inherit nothing but cheap chinese copies of quality american products.

To be clear, this thread is about the anvil ball head not the tripod.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If RRS cares then they would make the products more available. Plenty of people can afford a Anvil or Tripod, but If we cant buy one now or in a reasonable time frame, then something else will have to do.

Are people supposed to waste their life away waiting for a company to get off their fucking ass and make products. They have no problem dumping tens of thousands into marketing but can't expand or buy more machines? Maybe they care more about the Camera and Bird watching nerd market than the shooting segment and SOAR products are only made when machines aren't being used to make nerd shit.. Who fucking knows but It doesn't matter.

The way I look at it, If RRS won't service the market, then fuck them, and I already have an anvil/rrs.

 

[theLBC]

To be clear, this thread is about the anvil ball head not the tripod.

right, but he mentioned $1500, so i was thinking about the entire setup.
that fake anvil is so close, it is sort of embarrassing. people were putting anvils on top of amazon tripods so they had to steal that part.

 

[carbonbased]

I’m surrounded by people that say they, “Can’t afford that,” or say, “That’s a crazy price!” Etc etc. I know they could buy pretty much anything they want. They drive around in nice cars and live in nice houses. They are much more well-off than me.

I’m taking a wild guess: 90% of the people on this site can easily pay $1500 for something.

It’s just that they don’t want to.