I'm buying a gun to start long range shooting mostly at the range. After researching I'm pretty set on buying the Bergara Premier Series LRP Elite 6.5 Creedmoor. I've been researching a scope and found out the scope is more important than the rifle. I thinking about buying a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 EBR-2C (MOA). What else will I need to buy to get going? Any advice to get started will be appreciated. Thanks!
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Rifle Scopes New long range shooter looking for optics advice.
- Thread starter Yusufu
- Start date
IMHO, it's a great scope but for a several hundred more dollars you can get a better scope. Buy once, cry once. Because when you are ready for an upgrade, you will loose money on the viper. There is almost a daily fire-sale in the PX. I was able to pick up a tier 1 scope at an unbelievable price...Better turret clicks, flawless return to zero, excellent glass at higher magnification.
I was at Shot Show this year and Vortex is dropping the price of the 4.5x27 to $2000. It will do all you need
Sure.
-Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56mm, I've seen them as low as $1600 used in the PX
-Leupold Mark 5 Riflescope 5-25x56mm, I've seen them as low as $1500 used in the PX
-Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm, I've seen them as low as $1700 used in the PX
This may be more than you want to spend initially, but you will not be disappointed in the least and you have room to grow in to the optic.
There are a lot of quality, Japanese sourced optics priced between the PST (a really good scope) and the Razor Gen 2. The razor Gen 1 is one of them, as well as the sightmark pinnacle, the Athlon Cronus and the Primary Arms Platinum series
Your getting into long range, so I imagine that means you'll be shooting new places and maybe with new people.. What are your future plans? Does it really include a MOA based scope or might you find yourself in a long range class, positional spin up or some other situation where the others are using MRAD/Mil?
Something to strongly think about at this point ~ Where to you see yourself in a year or two and who might you be shooting with?
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This is a good list, and other I'd add is the Steiner T5Xi 5-25 which I've seen as low as $1300 recently.
Also, I know of several friends who replaced their MoA PSTs after less than a year of use once they start shooting at events. There is better glass and though moa/mil shoot equally well, it's a heck of a lot easier to communicate with others using the same measuring scales, and mil is dominant in the PRS style events.
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Will you be shooting at a club, a range, or non-public? Will you be getting any professional instruction?
My first advice is usually to go to the range and see what others are using well. Scopes are like women, many many options, some will suit you, some won't. (But unlike women, some guys at the range will let you try her out.) If planning to try this, pay attention to who knows what they are doing and who does not, targets tell the story pretty well.
Research is important, but keep in mind that everyone on the internet is a badass and an expert - so weigh advice critically.
And for the recford, the 3-18 razer is great, I have one on a 243AI and it is an awesome setup.
On the optic, buy the best you can afford, else you will outgrow it quickly. And if there are not reputable reviews (or if "Huskemaw" or "Countersniper" is in the name), run. Fast and far!
My first advice is usually to go to the range and see what others are using well. Scopes are like women, many many options, some will suit you, some won't. (But unlike women, some guys at the range will let you try her out.) If planning to try this, pay attention to who knows what they are doing and who does not, targets tell the story pretty well.
Research is important, but keep in mind that everyone on the internet is a badass and an expert - so weigh advice critically.
And for the recford, the 3-18 razer is great, I have one on a 243AI and it is an awesome setup.
On the optic, buy the best you can afford, else you will outgrow it quickly. And if there are not reputable reviews (or if "Huskemaw" or "Countersniper" is in the name), run. Fast and far!
On the -Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm recommendation: find out what generation it is. The oldest of these, the gen1s, had varying degrees of optical issues. Some were absurdly bad, some were marginally okay, none that I have ever seen or heard of were stellar.
I hear the newest generation are quite good; however, having been burned by their first few generations, I don't care to risk them.
But mileage varies and others have had much more success.
I hear the newest generation are quite good; however, having been burned by their first few generations, I don't care to risk them.
But mileage varies and others have had much more success.
Just getting into the game, there are a lot of options. You don't have to spend $2k or $1500. The PST2 is a fine scope, although those who recommend an upgrade aren't "wrong" at all - just trying to help you avoid the pitfalls of choosing mediocrity if you end up getting serious.
Personally, in the $1k range, I find it very hard to go wrong with either the SWFA HD 5-20, or the Athlon Cronus 4.5-29. Both have really good glass, good build quality, and flawless tracking. Upgrade from there to the $1600-$1800 scopes is better turrets, bigger FOV, slightly better glass, zero stop, and mostly other features that aren't essential, but are nice to have.
As long as you're buying used, you won't lose too much money on any of the mentioned options, but don't believe that you have to spend $1500+ just to have a use-able scope. There are options below that price point which are plenty good enough when you're starting out, and won't hold you back.
Personally, in the $1k range, I find it very hard to go wrong with either the SWFA HD 5-20, or the Athlon Cronus 4.5-29. Both have really good glass, good build quality, and flawless tracking. Upgrade from there to the $1600-$1800 scopes is better turrets, bigger FOV, slightly better glass, zero stop, and mostly other features that aren't essential, but are nice to have.
As long as you're buying used, you won't lose too much money on any of the mentioned options, but don't believe that you have to spend $1500+ just to have a use-able scope. There are options below that price point which are plenty good enough when you're starting out, and won't hold you back.
Looking back on from when I started to now the best advice I can give you is really invest in your scope set up. Picking the right scope the first time will save you a lot of problems with not liking one and then having to sell it. You don't want to be playing scope musical chairs.
Go mil based. A lot of instructors teach in MILs and if you compete the majority of the competitors there will be shooting with mil based systems.
I have the mil based Viper PST on my 300 win mag and it hasn't let me down. Just get a good set of rings or high quality scope mount and you're good to go.
Go mil based. A lot of instructors teach in MILs and if you compete the majority of the competitors there will be shooting with mil based systems.
I have the mil based Viper PST on my 300 win mag and it hasn't let me down. Just get a good set of rings or high quality scope mount and you're good to go.
To elaborate on "a good set of rings:" You ain'ta'gonna want the $29.99 cheapies in a blister pack. I've always been satisfied with Vortex PMR rings (made by Seekins). $130-150. There are certainly other quality rings, some selling for much more, that others here use and recommend.
So you have a scope and rings... now you need to know how to mount it and the tools with which to do it properly. Scope ring screws are tightened in inch-pounds - not foot-pounds!! -of torque, and they need to be tightened evenly and equally. The most economical way to do this is with a Wheeler FAT driver, $45-60. Other people like other brands and may speak up here. I paid a well-known gunsmith to mount my first Vortex Razor (gen 1 5-20) to insure I knew what to do, purchased the Wheeler tool, and have mounted/dismounted/mounted several scopes many times since then.
You can read a lot here about how to level the reticle during mounting. Do so. For me, I use the level built into the compass on my iPhone. I have compared it to a super-sensitive, high-$ engineering level and found them to be unbelievably close. I level the rail on the rifle and secure the rifle in place, then mount and tighten the bottom rings, then mount the scope itself.
After mounting the scope, I also install a Vortex standard bubble level. Then I put the rifle on a table, point it at a known-plumb vertical edge (such as an actual plumb line or the corner of a building), level the rifle in all planes, insure the vertical reticle is parallel to my known-plumb line, then secure the bubble level in place with its bubble centered.
There are some here who despise a bubble level. I have them on all my rifles and use them with every practice shot. They're mounted where I can see them with my cheek weld established. New shooters are often surprised to learn how much a "fraction of a bubble" translates to horizontal dispersion at 100 yards: if I move my rifle so the left edge of the bubble is touching the left line and put the crosshair on a 1/2" dot at 100 yards, and then cant the rifle so the right edge of the bubble is touching the right line, the crosshair has moved almost 4 inches off the dot. And this is with the bubble still "between the lines." As with rings, avoid cheap knockoffs.
My $0.02. The preceding has worked for me. Other successful shooters may have other recommendations.
So you have a scope and rings... now you need to know how to mount it and the tools with which to do it properly. Scope ring screws are tightened in inch-pounds - not foot-pounds!! -of torque, and they need to be tightened evenly and equally. The most economical way to do this is with a Wheeler FAT driver, $45-60. Other people like other brands and may speak up here. I paid a well-known gunsmith to mount my first Vortex Razor (gen 1 5-20) to insure I knew what to do, purchased the Wheeler tool, and have mounted/dismounted/mounted several scopes many times since then.
You can read a lot here about how to level the reticle during mounting. Do so. For me, I use the level built into the compass on my iPhone. I have compared it to a super-sensitive, high-$ engineering level and found them to be unbelievably close. I level the rail on the rifle and secure the rifle in place, then mount and tighten the bottom rings, then mount the scope itself.
After mounting the scope, I also install a Vortex standard bubble level. Then I put the rifle on a table, point it at a known-plumb vertical edge (such as an actual plumb line or the corner of a building), level the rifle in all planes, insure the vertical reticle is parallel to my known-plumb line, then secure the bubble level in place with its bubble centered.
There are some here who despise a bubble level. I have them on all my rifles and use them with every practice shot. They're mounted where I can see them with my cheek weld established. New shooters are often surprised to learn how much a "fraction of a bubble" translates to horizontal dispersion at 100 yards: if I move my rifle so the left edge of the bubble is touching the left line and put the crosshair on a 1/2" dot at 100 yards, and then cant the rifle so the right edge of the bubble is touching the right line, the crosshair has moved almost 4 inches off the dot. And this is with the bubble still "between the lines." As with rings, avoid cheap knockoffs.
My $0.02. The preceding has worked for me. Other successful shooters may have other recommendations.
As was mentioned if you are going to be around other LR shooters and you can wait a bit I'd highly recommend it. I was fortunate enough to have time and people who let me trial their glass. Vortex, NF, Leupy, , SWFA, Zeiss and Burris....it's really ideal to get to look through it with your own eyes. Especially if you are in a region where you get brutal mirage a lot like we do in FL that was big in my decision. Good luck and enjoy the process as if I need to tell you this is fun!
Just my opinion, but don't be like me and initially buy under what you can afford. I started with cheaper scopes and wasn't satisfied until I ended up with a Cronus. It doesn't have to be a Cronus, but that level of quality and price point is what I'm comfortable with and I lost some money along the way figuring that out. I don't even compete, that is just the minimum level where I think I have a solid optic that will last and keep me happy while newer whiz bang scopes come to market. Buy once, cry once is one of the truest clichés.
Buy the gear that makes your balls ache and causes involuntary salivation.
Im serious.
If you are getting passionate about this shit you are reading posts here, viewing pictures, reading marketing ads and there is that gear that causes a physical reaction in your gut and your mouth.
That is the only gear that will satisfy your desires.
If your budget wont allow you to get your physical reaction gear than get an affordable placeholder with good resale value or would be suitable for your second choice rifle.
Save your money and buy that scope that makes your balls ache and causes you to salivate and gulp spit.
Im serious.
If you are getting passionate about this shit you are reading posts here, viewing pictures, reading marketing ads and there is that gear that causes a physical reaction in your gut and your mouth.
That is the only gear that will satisfy your desires.
If your budget wont allow you to get your physical reaction gear than get an affordable placeholder with good resale value or would be suitable for your second choice rifle.
Save your money and buy that scope that makes your balls ache and causes you to salivate and gulp spit.
There are 2 left, they are a steal. DMRII Pro.
They have been compared here to Mark6 and even Razor2.
Fine Japanese ED glass.
Go with mil/mil.
They have been compared here to Mark6 and even Razor2.
Fine Japanese ED glass.
Go with mil/mil.
Your hand will perfectly satisfy any "Vegas" type desires but for rifles sometimes only an S&B will satisfy what itches you.
Yeah, probably right. EV has them for $1450 right now, so I just need to scoop up another one while they're on sale.
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