Night Vision New NV and Thermal Gear at 2024 Shot Show

[WindstormSCR]

Powered rails would be fantastic, the problem is the industry is going full competitive rather than making a working group to try and put together a powered rail standard that the accessory manufacturers can rely on.

until one powered rail concept becomes a clear winner, supporting any of them is a gamble. (see: media formats, etc)

on that subject, can someone ask unity why they’re huffing paint fumes and doing USB-C connectors if you can’t charge the devices with them and they still need a matching proprietary tape switch? the clue is in the name, make it universal or gtfo

 

[Conqueror]

I think there’s some theoretical advantage in either the power-carrying ability or switching consistency with the USB-C that might reduce flickering or something. But yeah if no other manufacturer is doing it, it isn’t exactly universal.

 

[Crewdog135]

Did anyone get to mess with the AGM Secutor? A Clip-on with rangefinder and decent specs really piques my interest, especially one that isn't new car priced. Thanks.

 

[kombayotch]

AGM is dropping a BUNCH of new stuff.

Thermals

https://www.agmglobalvision.com/thermal-imaging/thermal-clip-on-systems/agm-rattler-c-v2-50-640?filter=1

Did they have a sample of the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 at their booth? Anyone play with it?

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Did they have a sample of the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 at their booth? Anyone play with it?

We've sold a few of these and have gotten some great feedback on it

 

[FuhQ]

Did they have a sample of the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 at their booth? Anyone play with it?

I bought a NV clip-on, only to learn that clip-ons suck on anything more than 1x LPVO’s after testing it at home. Anything more than 1x, and you can’t see your battery levels, your on screen display, when you’re recording or not, etc… I sent it back still new in the box. I will go thermal/NV scope-only from now on. No more clip-ons.

 

[kombayotch]

Is the battery level the only pitfall? Know a guy who has an iRay MAH50 640 and he seems to love it.

Can the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 also function as a 1x scope? Does it have reticles like the V1?

 

[Conqueror]

I bought a NV clip-on, only to learn that clip-ons suck on anything more than 1x LPVO’s after testing it at home. Anything more than 1x, and you can’t see your battery levels, your on screen display, when you’re recording or not, etc… I sent it back still new in the box. I will go thermal/NV scope-only from now on. No more clip-ons.

ClipIR lets you move that info inward on the screen so you can still see it at higher mag.

 

[FuhQ]

Can the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 also function as a 1x scope? Does it have reticles like the V1?

Not to my knowledge, but I could be wrong. I DO know that you can buy the rubber eyepiece and convert it to a handheld monocular, but I don’t think it can be used as a scope. Would be best to contact AGM directly to ask them.

They cost almost the exact same (actually, I think the clip-ons are like $100 more typically), you would be better off just buying the scope version, and getting all the features and the 20x magnification.

 

[FuhQ]

ClipIR lets you move that info inward on the screen so you can still see it at higher mag.

AGM does not…Which is why I sent it back.

 

[kombayotch]

Not to my knowledge, but I could be wrong. I DO know that you can buy the rubber eyepiece and convert it to a handheld monocular, but I don’t think it can be used as a scope. Would be best to contact AGM directly to ask them.

They cost almost the exact same (actually, I think the clip-ons are like $100 more typically), you would be better off just buying the scope version, and getting all the features and the 20x magnification.

I gave them a call yesterday and they confirmed that is does have 1x scope functionality (with several reticles). The eyepiece is required for it though.

The clip-on seems a lot more versatile and less of a hassle to move around. Even when dealing with the collimator issues. My thoughts are that if I use the clip-on, I will shoot to confirm/adjust zero after installing it. I'd do that with the scope as well as I've always had some degree of shift when removing and re-installing scopes. Then, I'd also shoot to confirm the daytime scope zero when I re-install it. Twice the zeroing. With the clip-on, my daytime scope zero is unaffected.

I would like the scope if it was living on a single rifle, but I will be moving it around.

The battery indicator location is just firmware. They may have added that functionality to the V2. If not, it's something they may be open to because it's an obvious flaw in the setup.

 

[Evolution 9]

I bought a NV clip-on, only to learn that clip-ons suck on anything more than 1x LPVO’s after testing it at home. Anything more than 1x, and you can’t see your battery levels, your on screen display, when you’re recording or not, etc… I sent it back still new in the box. I will go thermal/NV scope-only from now on. No more clip-ons.

Maybe you meant something different from what you typed?

What you typed is that you tried one product (statistically likely that it was a budget brand based on market share and your specific description), and then dismissed the entire category as products that “suck at anything but 1x”.

You got a laugh reaction from someone because if that’s what you really meant to say, it’s incredibly poor reasoning.

Clip-ons come in at least two basic categories which for simplicity sake can be distilled into consumer toys of varying utility and quality, and another category generally referred to as military clip-ons, which, generally speaking, are WORLDS better than the former category.

I guarantee you that if you purchase a bottom of the barrel thermal scope you’ll be equally disappointed. Hopefully if that happens you’ll evaluate your purchasing decisions rather than labeling all thermal scopes as “they suck”.

 

[JulianD]

I'm thinking about a clip on at the end of my scope. what are the general requirements to look for... is it just the size of the clip on lens? E.g is your scope body was 30mm, do you look at the 35mm clip on?

 

[Evolution 9]

I'm thinking about a clip on at the end of my scope. what are the general requirements to look for... is it just the size of the clip on lens? E.g is your scope body was 30mm, do you look at the 35mm clip on?

I’d recommend searching around this forum for several days before making any decisions. There’s more to learn than you can get from one or two responses and it’s a big financial decision for most people.

First, I’d search “ clip-on vs stand alone thermal”. There are pros and cons to each and your specific use case determines which is best for you.

Then I’d research why “military” clip-ons are 3 to 30 times as expensive as commercial ones . Depending on your situation, they could be WELL worth it, or an absolute waste of money.

AFTER that, I’d start figuring out which ones fit my use case (long, short, or medium range). There will be a trade off between field of view and range. This is largely where the mm differences you mentioned will come into play.

Good luck!

 

[FuhQ]

Maybe you meant something different from what you typed?

What you typed is that you tried one product (statistically likely that it was a budget brand based on market share and your specific description), and then dismissed the entire category as products that “suck at anything but 1x”.

You got a laugh reaction from someone because if that’s what you really meant to say, it’s incredibly poor reasoning.

Clip-ons come in at least two basic categories which for simplicity sake can be distilled into consumer toys of varying utility and quality, and another category generally referred to as military clip-ons, which, generally speaking, are WORLDS better than the former category.

I guarantee you that if you purchase a bottom of the barrel thermal scope you’ll be equally disappointed. Hopefully if that happens you’ll evaluate your purchasing decisions rather than labeling all thermal scopes as “they suck”.

Well seeing as to how your lack of reading comprehension is only surpassed by your condescension and assumptions of what I own in some attempt to hop into this conversation, It's fair to assume you misread everything I said. I never said thermals suck. Cheap thermals suck, but everybody already knows that. As a matter of fact, I have a phenomenal thermal scope (AGM Rattler TS50-640 Long Range) that puts out incredible images, and several night vision scopes...

What I said was "CLIP-ONs suck on anything past 1x", because it completes eclipses all of the on-screen display items, and your image degradation is trash past about 5-6x magnification, because you're not actually magnifying the image... You are magnifying the image that's on a screen, which is a static size (1x).

 

[FuhQ]

I'm thinking about a clip on at the end of my scope. what are the general requirements to look for... is it just the size of the clip on lens? E.g is your scope body was 30mm, do you look at the 35mm clip on?

The 19mm, 25mm, 32mm, 35mm or 50mm or whatever the thermal or NV clip-on states that it is, has nothing to do with the scope it fits on. That number is the diameter of the objective lens, just like on any regular scope.

As to what size scopes it will fit on, has to do with what size mounting system you have for it. Most companies sell different size mounts. Some make universally-adjustable mounts. But that differs from company to company.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

This has to be satire

 

[Evolution 9]

Well seeing as to how your lack of reading comprehension is only surpassed by your condescension and assumptions of what I own in some attempt to hop into this conversation, It's fair to assume you misread everything I said. I never said thermals suck. Cheap thermals suck, but everybody already knows that. As a matter of fact, I have a phenomenal thermal scope (AGM Rattler TS50-640 Long Range) that puts out incredible images, and several night vision scopes...

What I said was "CLIP-ONs suck on anything past 1x", because it completes eclipses all of the on-screen display items, and your image degradation is trash past about 5-6x magnification, because you're not actually magnifying the image... You are magnifying the image that's on a screen, which is a static size (1x).

My reading comprehension was just fine. I know you didn’t say all thermals suck. You said clip-ons suck. It’s actually your reading comprehension that’s experiencing a hiccup.

I was very open to the possibility of your having just misstated your situation, but you’ve now clarified that you really did try one clip-on and then classify all clip-ons as junk because of that one (cheap) example. So now I will be a little condescending and tell you how utterly stupid you’re being. I’ll hold out hope this is some form of humor…

Your comment about AGM Rattler being a great thermal gives me hope you’re just joking around.

 

[TheHorta]

Well seeing as to how your lack of reading comprehension is only surpassed by your condescension and assumptions of what I own in some attempt to hop into this conversation, It's fair to assume you misread everything I said. I never said thermals suck. Cheap thermals suck, but everybody already knows that. As a matter of fact, I have a phenomenal thermal scope (AGM Rattler TS50-640 Long Range) that puts out incredible images, and several night vision scopes...

What I said was "CLIP-ONs suck on anything past 1x", because it completes eclipses all of the on-screen display items, and your image degradation is trash past about 5-6x magnification, because you're not actually magnifying the image... You are magnifying the image that's on a screen, which is a static size (1x).

Depends upon what Clip-On you’re talking about. That’s a pretty broad over-generalization. There are a fair number of clip-ons out there that will crush your AGM bargain unit by a considerable margin, but they will likely cost considerably more as well and are typically outside the budget of most Average Joes.

 

[Evolution 9]

The 19mm, 25mm, 32mm, 35mm or 50mm or whatever the thermal or NV clip-on states that it is, has nothing to do with the scope it fits on. That number is the diameter of the objective lens, just like on any regular scope.

As to what size scopes it will fit on, has to do with what size mounting system you have for it. Most companies sell different size mounts. Some make universally-adjustable mounts. But that differs from company to company.

You’re actually wrong… again. With thermals, the mm number 35mm etc. doesn’t refer to the diameter of the objective lens. I recommend a little research.

 

[dirtytough]

My reading comprehension was just fine. I know you didn’t say all thermals suck. You said clip-ons suck. It’s actually your reading comprehension that’s experiencing a hiccup.

I was very open to the possibility of your having just misstated your situation, but you’ve now clarified that you really did try one clip-on and then classify all clip-ons as junk because of that one (cheap) example. So now I will be a little condescending and tell you how utterly stupid you’re being. I’ll hold out hope this is some form of humor…

Your comment about AGM Rattler being a great thermal gives me hope you’re just joking around.

Don’t you know who you’re typing to? Ol Mud bought one clip on, and decided all clip ons suck from trying one. That’s Mud 101. Buy something and become an expert about the time he gets the box opened.

I used a cheap clip on with a 2.5x base mag scope. I had zero issues seeing the screen. That’s why I laughed at his “clip ons suck” post. He doesn’t have a clue and he is serious.

 

[FuhQ]

My reading comprehension was just fine. I know you didn’t say all thermals suck. You said clip-ons suck. It’s actually your reading comprehension that’s experiencing a hiccup.

I was very open to the possibility of your having just misstated your situation, but you’ve now clarified that you really did try one clip-on and then classify all clip-ons as junk because of that one (cheap) example. So now I will be a little condescending and tell you how utterly stupid you’re being. I’ll hold out hope this is some form of humor…

Your comment about AGM Rattler being a great thermal gives me hope you’re just joking around.

Look, I can tell you’re butthurt about me saying you clip-ons suck, but the fact is, they are not as good as a dedicated scope, and never will be. Go buy all the strap-one you like. Opinions are allowed to be had, and yours Is no more valid than mine. They are both opinions…Take it or leave it.

 

[rlsmith1]

Look, I can tell you’re butthurt about me saying you clip-ons suck, but the fact is, they are not as good as a dedicated scope, and never will be. Go buy all the strap-one you like. Opinions are allowed to be had, and yours Is no more valid than mine. They are both opinions…Take it or leave it.

I bet the guys disagreeing with you shoot much better with their clip ons than you do with your AGM. Might even go so far as to say they’re effective twice as far or more

 

[FuhQ]

I bet the guys disagreeing with you shoot much better with their clip ons than you do with your AGM. Might even go so far as to say they’re effective twice as far or more

Well, seeing as to how I don’t know who they are, nor do I care, my opinion won’t be swayed. I don’t play this stupid ego game everyone on here wants to play. You can kiss people’s asses if you want, but I’m not about to.

 

[rlsmith1]

Well, seeing as to how I don’t know who they are, nor do I care, my opinion won’t be swayed. I don’t play this stupid ego game everyone on here wants to play. You can kiss people’s asses if you want, but I’m not about to.

Lmk when you shoot something past 350 yds with your thermal. I’m not kissing anyone’s ass, I’d be more than happy to bring my shooting into it too… 1.5 MOA steel at 550y with a 308 in the middle of the night (as far as I could shoot with a rifle not known for flat trajectory).

Then there’s these guys who have shot 1250y at night and guess what they used? Clip ons. Guess they were stupid for doing that though. They later went to 2200y.

Btw, no egos involved here except for you (who won’t consider an opinion other than your own). Just throwing out measurable ways to formulate an opinion

 

[st1650]

Lmk when you shoot something past 350 yds with your thermal. I’m not kissing anyone’s ass, I’d be more than happy to bring my shooting into it too… 1.5 MOA steel at 550y with a 308 in the middle of the night (as far as I could shoot with a rifle not known for flat trajectory).

Then there’s these guys who have shot 1250y at night and guess what they used? Clip ons. Guess they were stupid for doing that though. They later went to 2200y.

Btw, no egos involved here except for you (who won’t consider an opinion other than your own). Just throwing out measurable ways to formulate an opinion

I've shot 2 MOA steels consistently at 500m with my Nuke 223 with my Bolt TH50v2. Extremely easy with a custom reticle made through the Iray app. Shit I've even shot *subsonic* 300BLK at 300m on also a 10in steel just for shit and giggles. I think I even have it on video, I'll have to find it.

Inside of 500y is still doable with thermal with the right gear. Past that ? Clipon definitely but for most non door kickers, what kind of scenario warrants shooting at night past 500 ?

 

[rlsmith1]

I've shot 2 MOA steels consistently at 500m with my Nuke 223 with my Bolt TH50v2. Extremely easy with a custom reticle made through the Iray app. Shit I've even shot *subsonic* 300BLK at 300m on also a 10in steel just for shit and giggles. I think I even have it on video, I'll have to find it.

Inside of 500y is still doable with thermal with the right gear. Past that ? Clipon definitely but for most non door kickers, what kind of scenario warrants shooting at night past 500 ?

Sometimes it’s just plain fun to shoot a long ways!

 

[FuhQ]

Lmk when you shoot something past 350 yds with your thermal. I’m not kissing anyone’s ass, I’d be more than happy to bring my shooting into it too… 1.5 MOA steel at 550y with a 308 in the middle of the night (as far as I could shoot with a rifle not known for flat trajectory).

Then there’s these guys who have shot 1250y at night and guess what they used? Clip ons. Guess they were stupid for doing that though. They later went to 2200y.

Btw, no egos involved here except for you (who won’t consider an opinion other than your own). Just throwing out measurable ways to formulate an opinion

I'm the one with an ego, yet I'm not the one assuming things about people... Sad and pathetic. You have zero clue what I have and have not done, how far I've shot, what I even own, other than the few things I've shown on the forum. I'm not assuming what others have or have not done...Because that's incredibly asinine to yourself, to do so.

 

[ChrisAU]

Bet that new Rico MK2 RH50R will be a top seller this year for Iray. That 2560x2560 display and 60hz refresh rate is king.

Wish I could find one in stock!

 

[jstokes1]

Well seeing as to how your lack of reading comprehension is only surpassed by your condescension and assumptions of what I own in some attempt to hop into this conversation, It's fair to assume you misread everything I said. I never said thermals suck. Cheap thermals suck, but everybody already knows that. As a matter of fact, I have a phenomenal thermal scope (AGM Rattler TS50-640 Long Range) that puts out incredible images, and several night vision scopes...

What I said was "CLIP-ONs suck on anything past 1x", because it completes eclipses all of the on-screen display items, and your image degradation is trash past about 5-6x magnification, because you're not actually magnifying the image... You are magnifying the image that's on a screen, which is a static size (1x).

Welp, I hate to tell ya, but you don't know much about LR clip ons then. Guess what magnification this image was taken on.

LR Thermal clip ons beat the breaks off of dedicated scopes not only because of the better image when zooming into the display vs digitally zooming in, but because you can now use your day time reticle stadia for at distance engagements while not having to rely on a digitally generated reticle that is not repeatable.


Guess what magnification this image was taken on and the distance of that house.

 

[FuhQ]

Welp, I hate to tell ya, but you don't know much about LR clip ons then.

I never claimed to. I said they suck and I don't like them based on my experience. That's called an opinion. And everyone got all fucking butthurt and wanted to pull some stupid dick measuring contest as if I give a shit about anyone else, or their opinions on my opinion. If I wanted their opinion on my opinion, I would have asked...But I didn't.

 

[jstokes1]

I never claimed to. I said they suck and I don't like them based on my experience. That's called an opinion. And everyone got all fucking butthurt and wanted to pull some stupid dick measuring contest as if I give a shit about anyone else, or their opinions on my opinion. If I wanted their opinion on my opinion, I would have asked...But I didn't.

I get that, but the statement of "they are only good up to 1x optical" is objectively incorrect. That's where you lost people.

 

[FuhQ]

I get that, but the statement of "they are only good up to 1x optical" is objectively incorrect. That's where you lost people.

Ok... Let me rephrase... The one I bought was only good up to 1x optical, because you can't adjust the location of any of the OSD features. The one I bought (and promptly returned) sucked. Is that better?

 

[jstokes1]

Ok... Let me rephrase... The one I bought was only good up to 1x optical, because you can't adjust the location of any of the OSD features. The one I bought (and promptly returned) sucked. Is that better?

Yes . With clip ons, there are plenty of ways to spend money poorly, as you have found out.

 

[jstokes1]

Lmk when you shoot something past 350 yds with your thermal. I’m not kissing anyone’s ass, I’d be more than happy to bring my shooting into it too… 1.5 MOA steel at 550y with a 308 in the middle of the night (as far as I could shoot with a rifle not known for flat trajectory).

Then there’s these guys who have shot 1250y at night and guess what they used? Clip ons. Guess they were stupid for doing that though. They later went to 2200y.

Btw, no egos involved here except for you (who won’t consider an opinion other than your own). Just throwing out measurable ways to formulate an opinion

My furthest yote kill was 550 yards with a UTC X .

 

[kombayotch]

Guess what magnification this image was taken on and the distance of that house.

Which clip-on is that? UTC X?

 

[tekmann2377]

I would be curious to hear more details about the Rattler V50 clip on before making further judgements. Its 384 sensor is a detriment, but its 50 mm lense is an improvement. Another question would be how much back end demag it has. All of these will give a better idea how it would stack up to something like a ClipIR LR.

I wouldnt pass any judgement about how clip ons suck until looking through a UTC or Clip XELR... In terms of raw image quality they are at least the equal, and actually exceed, a very high quality unit like a 60 mm Reap or Halo XRF, despite having to look through the extra glass of a day scope.

 

[jstokes1]

Which clip-on is that? UTC X?

Voodoo M on that one. Right around 3x optical.

 

[kombayotch]

Voodoo M on that one. Right around 3x optical.

That's a little ways out of my budget... lol!

I'm looking for something more like the Rico Micro RH25 or the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 mentioned above. Guessing they don't come close to that...

​

 

[bmicek]

That's a little ways out of my budget... lol!

I'm looking for something more like the Rico Micro RH25 or the AGM RATTLER-C V2 50-640 mentioned above. Guessing they don't come close to that...

​

Check out the Bering Super Yoter C. I never bought one but I looked at them closely. There’s a decent thread on them somewhere. There appears to be a V2 model that is even better?

 

[jstokes1]

Check out the Bering Super Yoter C. I never bought one but I looked at them closely. There’s a decent thread on them somewhere. There appears to be a V2 model that is even better?

Great suggestion. I had the V1 and it was wildly good for the price.

 

[rlsmith1]

There were some used Yoter C's available fairly recently for good prices. I snagged one and it has been great for what I use it for

 

[FuhQ]

I would be curious to hear more details about the Rattler V50 clip on before making further judgements. Its 384 sensor is a detriment, but its 50 mm lense is an improvement. Another question would be how much back end demag it has. All of these will give a better idea how it would stack up to something like a ClipIR LR.

I wouldnt pass any judgement about how clip ons suck until looking through a UTC or Clip XELR... In terms of raw image quality they are at least the equal, and actually exceed, a very high quality unit like a 60 mm Reap or Halo XRF, despite having to look through the extra glass of a day scope.

They offer a 640 version of the same clip-on... So now you don't have to worry about the 384 resolution being a detriment.

AGM Rattler-C V2 50-640 | AGM Global Vision

AGM Rattler-C V2 50-640 from the AGM Global Vision. ✔️Best Priced ✔️Excellent quality ✔️Fast shipping ✔️Easy Setup ✔️Order now!

www.agmglobalvision.com

AGM 50-640 Rattler-C V2 640x512 50Hz 50mm Thermal Clip-On 314205560206R561

FREE SHIPPING on AGM 50-640 Rattler-C V2 640x512 50Hz 50mm Thermal Clip-On 314205560206R561

www.eurooptic.com

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1807925-REG/agm_314205560206r561_rattler_c_v2_50_640_thermal.html

 

[Conqueror]

I never claimed to. I said they suck and I don't like them based on my experience. That's called an opinion. And everyone got all fucking butthurt and wanted to pull some stupid dick measuring contest as if I give a shit about anyone else, or their opinions on my opinion. If I wanted their opinion on my opinion, I would have asked...But I didn't.

“I bought a 1983 Yugo and it sucked. Therefore all cars suck based on my experience.”

 

[FuhQ]

“I bought a 1983 Yugo and it sucked. Therefore all cars suck based on my experience.”

I didn’t ask your opinion either.

 

[kombayotch]

There were some used Yoter C's available fairly recently for good prices. I snagged one and it has been great for what I use it for

I didn't find any on the EE. Didn't see any for sale since 2022. Were they some place online?

Check out the Bering Super Yoter C. I never bought one but I looked at them closely. There’s a decent thread on them somewhere. There appears to be a V2 model that is even better?

Found a thread on it and the pics look really good!

 

[JulianD]

The 19mm, 25mm, 32mm, 35mm or 50mm or whatever the thermal or NV clip-on states that it is, has nothing to do with the scope it fits on. That number is the diameter of the objective lens, just like on any regular scope.

As to what size scopes it will fit on, has to do with what size mounting system you have for it. Most companies sell different size mounts. Some make universally-adjustable mounts. But that differs from company to company.

Thank you so much for the insight.. I'll looking to put a clip on a Sai

 

[Conqueror]

I didn’t ask your opinion either.

Posts shitty poorly-informed take on a public discussion forum.

People tell him his take is shitty and poorly-informed.

Clutches pearls I didn’t want any of you to have opinions different from mine!!!

 

[FuhQ]

Posts shitty poorly-informed take on a public discussion forum.

People tell him his take is shitty and poorly-informed.

Clutches pearls I didn’t want any of you to have opinions different from mine!!!

Keep projecting because I simply don’t care about your (or most people on here’s) opinions… I know that probably hurts your ego, but it is what it is.

 

[Conqueror]

Keep projecting because I simply don’t care about your (or most people on here’s) opinions… I know that probably hurts your ego, but it is what it is.

Yeah we can tell you don’t care by (checks clipboard) your constant returns to the thread to argue with people.