New Optic decision

[GZ1]

Hello,

My first topic here. I've always lurked but never had anything smart enough to add to conversation.

I am looking at getting a new optic for my 6.5 CM. I saw the threads for the new Leupold MK4HD and thought that it could be good for what I'm doing with the rifle. Now it seems like they aren't going to be readily available for a little while with exception of a few trickling in to places. My job gets me certain perks for optics from Leupold, Steiner and Vortex (along with a couple others). So I started pondering spending a little more money and moving up to a MK5 or a T6Xi from Steiner due to the possibility that it could be awhile before a MK4 was available. I'm looking at something in the 5-30 magnification range. This leaves me with the 5-25 from Leupold or the 5-30 from Steiner (Or the 6-24 in the MK4 if it came available)

The P6xi is roughly $500 more than the MK4, and the MK5 is roughly $200 more than the Steiner. Out of these three, what would you recommend and why? I'm leaning towards the T6Xi due to it being illuminated. My last trip out a shadow cast on the 400y target and I really wish I could have seen the reticle better. And the illuminated MK5 jumps the price up even more.

What says the Hide?

 

[FuhQ]

Anything but Leupold... Steiner is a great optic.

 

[psharon78]

Of those two brands, I'd probably choose the Steiner. Both are great optics. Which reticle do you like the best?

 

[GZ1]

Of those two brands, I'd probably choose the Steiner. Both are great optics. Which reticle do you like the best?

I’ve gone back and forth. I like the simplicity of the MSR2, but recognize the advantages to the SCR2. Probably will end up with the SCR2.

 

[FuhQ]

Of those two brands, I'd probably choose the Steiner. Both are great optics. Which reticle do you like the best?

I have all 3 of these... They are excellent optics. If you want the most refined turrets, smoothest controls, and best glass, the current generation Kahles K624i SKMR4 is where it's at. It's Austrian built, with Austrian parts, and Austrian SCHOTT glass.

But if you want more magnification than the 6-24, the other 2 would be the way to go, unless you're willing to jump up to the Nightforce ATACR F1 7-35x56 MIL-XT. In which case, that's one of the top dogs right now.

Don't overlook these...

Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56 FFP EBR-7D MRAD Black EuroOptic Exclusive Riflescope RZR-63602-B

FREE SHIPPING on Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56 FFP EBR-7D MRAD Black EuroOptic Exclusive Riflescope RZR-63602-B

www.eurooptic.com

Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

FREE SHIPPING on Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

www.eurooptic.com

Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522695-9916-090

FREE SHIPPING on Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522695-9916-090

www.eurooptic.com

 

[FuhQ]

Of those two brands, I'd probably choose the Steiner. Both are great optics. Which reticle do you like the best?

For the Steiner? I like the SCR2 MIL. Same reticle in the Burris XTR-III 5-30x56 that I have. It's another solid optic for your list. In case you're wondering, Burris owns Steiner. That's why the Steiner T-Series share so many similarities with the Burris XTR series optics.

 

[GZ1]

I have all 3 of these... They are excellent optics. If you want the most refined turrets, smoothest controls, and best glass, the current generation Kahles K624i SKMR4 is where it's at. It's Austrian built, with Austrian parts, and Austrian SCHOTT glass.

But if you want more magnification than the 6-24, the other 2 would be the way to go, unless you're willing to jump up to the Nightforce ATACR F1 7-35x56 MIL-XT. In which case, that's one of the top dogs right now.

Don't overlook these...

Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56 FFP EBR-7D MRAD Black EuroOptic Exclusive Riflescope RZR-63602-B

FREE SHIPPING on Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56 FFP EBR-7D MRAD Black EuroOptic Exclusive Riflescope RZR-63602-B

www.eurooptic.com

Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

FREE SHIPPING on Kahles K624i 6-24x56mm RSW CCW SKMR4 FFP Riflescope 10681

www.eurooptic.com

Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522695-9916-090

FREE SHIPPING on Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522695-9916-090

www.eurooptic.com

All these seem great, but I don’t get any deals on these (Minus the Vortex which still is considerably more than the Steiner or MK5)

The 6-24/5-30 will be sufficient for what I am doing.

 

[FuhQ]

All these seem great, but I don’t get any deals on these (Minus the Vortex which still is considerably more than the Steiner or MK5)

The 6-24/5-30 will be sufficient for what I am doing.

Sure you can get deals... Just message @Euro.Connor ...

 

[ma smith]

What are you doing with the rifle? You never really expanded on that point...

 

[Long Range 338]

Steiner hands down. Reticle choice depending on your type of shooting. For PRS/comp shooting the SCR2 is a great reticle, for field shooting the MSR2 is amazing.

 

[GZ1]

What are you doing with the rifle? You never really expanded on that point...

We shoot for fun. No competitions or matches. 300-600 mainly. Currently working on setting up a 1,000 yard option where we shoot. Rifle may shoot a hog or two in its lifetime.

I'm just getting into this game. I really enjoy it. I know there are going to be learning curves and growing pains, but I have to start somewhere. The gun is currently a Bergara HMR. I'm using it as an entry level rifle and want to start collecting parts to build a better one.

 

[GZ1]

Steiner hands down. Reticle choice depending on your type of shooting. For PRS/comp shooting the SCR2 is a great reticle, for field shooting the MSR2 is amazing.

Seems likes this is starting to trend towards the Steiner. Which isn't bad. I am leaning towards this option anyways. A little more magnification and an illuminated reticle.

 

[GZ1]

Sure you can get deals... Just message @Euro.Connor ...

I will look into it. Thank you!

 

[Rocketmandb]

I have a Steiner M7Xi and I like it quite a bit, but have not yet put my hands on a T6Xi. The MSR2 reticle is a little crowded with features you likely won't use, and it's not great for longer ranges (limited holdover capability), but otherwise is good. Steiner glass is top notch, and if the turrets are anything like the M7, they click like winding a Swiss watch.

 

[Lux_612]

We shoot for fun. No competitions or matches. 300-600 mainly. Currently working on setting up a 1,000 yard option where we shoot. Rifle may shoot a hog or two in its lifetime.

I'm just getting into this game. I really enjoy it. I know there are going to be learning curves and growing pains, but I have to start somewhere. The gun is currently a Bergara HMR. I'm using it as an entry level rifle and want to start collecting parts to build a better one.

Looks like we're both in the same position, set up too. After lots of analysis paralysis, I'm basically down to two options after asking for recommendations.

Steiner T6XI 5-30x56 SCR2 and Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56. Just curious, are you not considering the Vortex? Did you make a purchase yet?

 

[Chickentoast]

Looks like we're both in the same position, set up too. After lots of analysis paralysis, I'm basically down to two options after asking for recommendations.

Steiner T6XI 5-30x56 SCR2 and Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56. Just curious, are you not considering the Vortex? Did you make a purchase yet?

G3 will give a bit more optical performance (say 5-10%) and the extra magnification in exchange for the extra weight, but the Steiner will not limit you in any way IMHO. A few years back I used to compare scopes by scanning an area out to ~4K yards from my living room - and never found an instance where my ZCO could see something or enable a shot where my Burris XTR3 couldn't. Sure the ZCO is nicer, but the utility is equivalent IMHO.

 

[GZ1]

Looks like we're both in the same position, set up too. After lots of analysis paralysis, I'm basically down to two options after asking for recommendations.

Steiner T6XI 5-30x56 SCR2 and Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56. Just curious, are you not considering the Vortex? Did you make a purchase yet?

No, I am not considering the Vortex. With their recent price hikes it puts them out of range of what I want to spend. If we are being honest, I don’t think the Razor would make me (very specifically me) any better of a shooter. It’s nothing more than price.

I mean if someone wants to match the price of the Steiner then I’d consider it.

 

[GZ1]

G3 will give a bit more optical performance (say 5-10%) and the extra magnification in exchange for the extra weight, but the Steiner will not limit you in any way IMHO. A few years back I used to compare scopes by scanning an area out to ~4K yards from my living room - and never found an instance where my ZCO could see something or enable a shot where my Burris XTR3 couldn't. Sure the ZCO is nicer, but the utility is equivalent IMHO.

I wouldn’t doubt it’s a little better. I don’t know if I could tell though. Weight doesn’t bother me. I’m going to add a removable weight attachment anyways to try to keep the recoils tamed a bit.

 

[Lux_612]

Fair points. I'm keeping that in mind for myself too. I was just curious because I looked up the used costs of the razor and they can be found for ~200 more, at least. That's comparing the T6XI cost new though.

 

[Chickentoast]

I wouldn’t doubt it’s a little better. I don’t know if I could tell though. Weight doesn’t bother me. I’m going to add a removable weight attachment anyways to try to keep the recoils tamed a bit.

You can tell, but it's like tracking a Vette and a Ferrari with the same tires... you're going to put up the same times, but the added finesse makes for a different experience.

 

[CSTactical]

 

[GZ1]

Don’t know which part you speak of.

 

[Chickentoast]

Don’t know which part you speak of.

I think that's part of the you're not cool enough sales pitch while also calling me a moron. Where I'm coming from... shooting is just a hobby that I enjoy - I glean zero ego points or self-worth based on my equipment choices for said hobby, nor does the cost of any of it impact me in any way.

CS Tac are good guys - bought an MK5 from them which I thought sucked compared to my XTR3's, and they allowed me to exchange for a ZCO, which I sold here afterwards. I can disagree with their optics assessments while still being a fan of their biz practices.

 

[GZ1]

Fair points. I'm keeping that in mind for myself too. I was just curious because I looked up the used costs of the razor and they can be found for ~200 more, at least. That's comparing the T6XI cost new though.

I thought the same about finding a used one, I just am terrified to buy a $1,500+ optic used over the internet. And the chances of finding one local reasonably priced is slim to none.

 

[CSTactical]

I think that's part of the you're not cool enough sales pitch while also calling me a moron. Where I'm coming from... shooting is just a hobby that I enjoy - I glean zero ego points or self-worth based on my equipment choices for said hobby, nor does the cost of any of it impact me in any way.

CS Tac are good guys - bought an MK5 from them which I thought sucked compared to my XTR3's, and they allowed me to exchange for a ZCO, which I sold here afterwards. I can disagree with their optics assessments while still being a fan of their biz practices.

I didn't quote you specifically, it's some of this thread in general. But I have learned that an individual's vision also plays a huge factor on how well they are able to assess how optics perform. This is an issue with my dominant right eye compared to my left. There are many who can't tell a difference between optics like yourself when someone like Ilya or Glassaholic can provide an actual resolution chart showing a noticeable difference. And when optics are compared in great conditions, a lesser optic will perform much closer to a premium optic. Under mirage or less than ideal conditions the better optical system tends to show a noticeable difference.

I will only speak for myself when I recommend optics whether we sell them or not and when I see what happens behind the scenes with certain brands or specific models of scopes that I will NOT recommend them regardless of how they perform optically. I take performance, reliability, durability, warranty, customer service, track record, turnaround time if there is a warranty claim, reticle, features all into account whether I disclose everything publicly or not.

There is more to riflescopes than "glass" or just how they perform optically IMO.

-Richard

 

[CSTactical]

I think that's part of the you're not cool enough sales pitch while also calling me a moron.

And you do not speak for me and I said no such thing, I'm not anonymous and if I have a problem that I want to disclose I will say so -

Richard 916-628-3490

 

[GZ1]

@CSTactical - what would you recommend in the $1,500ish range?

 

[CSTactical]

@CSTactical - what would you recommend in the $1,500ish range?

Give me a call tomorrow at 916-628-3490

 

[Chickentoast]

I didn't quote you specifically, it's some of this thread in general. But I have learned that an individual's vision also plays a huge factor on how well they are able to assess how optics perform. This is an issue with my dominant right eye compared to my left. There are many who can't tell a difference between optics like yourself when someone like Ilya or Glassaholic can provide an actual resolution chart showing a noticeable difference. And when optics are compared in great conditions, a lesser optic will perform much closer to a premium optic. Under mirage or less than ideal conditions the better optical system tends to show a noticeable difference.

I will only speak for myself when I recommend optics whether we sell them or not and when I see what happens behind the scenes with certain brands or specific models of scopes that I will NOT recommend them regardless of how they perform optically. I take performance, reliability, durability, warranty, customer service, track record, turnaround time if there is a warranty claim, reticle, features all into account whether I disclose everything publicly or not.

There is more to riflescopes than "glass" or just how they perform optically IMO.

-Richard

I can absolutely tell the difference, and argued as much in the thread. It's just not that great of a difference, as attested to by the many tests/charts posted by the people you brought up, as well as many other owners and previous owners here and elsewhere over the years. I complemented you on your biz practices and wouldn't hesitate to purchase from you again.

But there is no grand complexity that requires an expert to distill and translate for others. I bought into that BS until I purchased the scopes and used them myself. You are either willing to pay for a Ferrari or are fine with a Vette. The utilitarian difference is negligible at best. That is what I wanted to convey, especially given that the OP is on a budget.

I also called you on your condescending post because it was unwarranted. Perhaps in the future just say you disagree and outline why... I'm not your enemy. I gave my honest opinion and have no dog in the fight, financial or otherwise. Your contribution was a dismissive meme, while running a business and looking for sales.

 

[264win]

Of the OP selected options I would choose the mk5 far and away. Not because I think it’s a lot better than the Steiner. But because I think Leupold is much better company in regards to CS and the MK 5 has been around and is well proven.

The mk 4 may turn out to be great, but I try to avoid being a beta tester when my own $$ are on the line.

 

[chevy_man]

Mark 5. The mark 4 would be fine for what you want, and if you want cheaper it may well be worth waiting. (If you're using the vip program just put in the order and wait. It's painful until you forget and get surprised a few months down the road).


Steiner has turned me off based on their European views towards customers. This may have changed, but impressions are lasting. The last time I dealt with them it felt like they were only into helping mil and leo and they didn't even want us mere civies handling their stuff.

 

[Cr1775]

I'm looking at getting the MK4 just to check it out,see if its any good. Otherwise i really do like my MK5 's.

 

[GZ1]

Looks like we're both in the same position, set up too. After lots of analysis paralysis, I'm basically down to two options after asking for recommendations.

Steiner T6XI 5-30x56 SCR2 and Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56. Just curious, are you not considering the Vortex? Did you make a purchase yet?

I've contemplated since February and have had some house things I needed to wrap up. I ended up buying the T6xi 5-30 with the MSR2 reticle. I liked the idea of a razor (Gen 2 or Gen 3) but the price was more than I wanted to spend in my current situation.

I crossed the MK4 HD off the list because they don't offer it with an illuminated reticle in 6-24. Last time I went out was getting close to dusk and I couldn't see my reticle. I'm sure anything on my list or anything suggested would have been a massive improvement over any glass I've used or looked through to this point.

 

[Lux_612]

Nice! I'm still thinking of getting one too. I was initially hung up on SR2 or MSR2, and I just let it go for a while since I wasn't sure. How do you like it? How did you decide on that reticle?

I ended up getting a couple Ares ETR 4.5-30 in APRS1 and APRS6 (both mil) to small step my way to an upgrade. Or at least I thought. Turns out my Hawke Frontier 5-25 (milpro) is equal to them... So, now I've got three scopes to sell and finally go in on a better optic.

 

[GZ1]

Nice! I'm still thinking of getting one too. I was initially hung up on SR2 or MSR2, and I just let it go for a while since I wasn't sure. How do you like it? How did you decide on that reticle?

I ended up getting a couple Ares ETR 4.5-30 in APRS1 and APRS6 (both mil) to small step my way to an upgrade. Or at least I thought. Turns out my Hawke Frontier 5-25 (milpro) is equal to them... So, now I've got three scopes to sell and finally go in on a better optic.

I haven't received it yet. I went with the MSR2 because most of my shooting is between 100-600 yards. Probably can't go wrong with either and I flip-flopped both the MSR2 and SCR2 in the cart probably 3 times. Time will tell, hopefully it gets here soon. New toys are always exciting.

 

[Chickentoast]

I haven't received it yet. I went with the MSR2 because most of my shooting is between 100-600 yards. Probably can't go wrong with either and I flip-flopped both the MSR2 and SCR2 in the cart probably 3 times. Time will tell, hopefully it gets here soon. New toys are always exciting.

I have both reticles and believe you made the correct choice for your 100-600 yard shooting. SCR2 is more precise, but the MSR2 is faster, especially at lower mag.

 

[GZ1]

I have both reticles and believe you made the correct choice for your 100-600 yard shooting. SCR2 is more precise, but the MSR2 is faster, especially at lower mag.

I think so too. It should do well for what I do. I figured I should get something more tailored to what I do most often vs something I can do but will be much fewer and far between.

 

[GZ1]

Well I received my new optic today. Paired it with some seekins rings. Unfortunately I work this coming weekend so I’ll have to wait for the following to sight it in and shoot it unless I can convince my buddy to go out after work one night. Initial impressions are on par with what I thought. It’s the most expensive/high end optic I’ve had/used so everything feels great. Real test will be putting it to use.

Rifle is a Bergara HMR in a Grey Birch chassis in 6.5 creedmoor.