New, possibly "problematic" barrel

[Ape_Factory]

I'm a firm believer a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I therefore defer to the Hide's knowledge on this. I received a much anticipated new barrel today, fluted and all. First glance, she's gorgeous but then I start to really look and notice a few things. I whipped out the bore scope and photographed what I thought were a few issues. Photos below.

I don't want to be "that" customer so I have a few questions about the state of this barrel. I want to bring up legitimate concerns (if there are any) and not waste any time on things I don't have the knowledge to judge and aren't actual problems.

First, are most new barrels fired in-house before shipping out? It does not appear the barrel has ever been mounted. The extension doesn't have any scratches or telltale signs it's used. But it appears there's a bit of carbon in the grooves of the rifling. I don't care either way, I just want to know what I'm looking at. There's a lot of leftover shavings and what not from the machining process so I'm thinking it wasn't ever used to fire a round. Chamber looks mint, untouched.

Second, I would assume the start of the rifling after the chamber needs to be uniform in distance. It appears the grooves start at varying distances, no rhyme or reason. Two next to one and other don't come all the way down to the chamber, most are right at the chamber, and there's a third that begins in the throat (think I'm using the right terminology there).

Third, I've always read the crown is the most important as it's the last thing the bullet sees. Well, this crown is a bit thorny and there's a small chunk missing at the very edge. Seems pretty rough the whole way around actually but that one spot is particularly glaring.

Fourth, there appears to be tooling chatter or something just before the gas port.

I bought this on Black Friday, made to order, expecting an 8-week delivery timeframe, but it showed up in essentially three weeks. Specs are HBAR, fluted, 223 wylde, only the barrel threading is non-standard for what most get for .223/5.56 so I can't see this being a previously installed/returned barrel.

Going to reach out about the crown regardless but would like input on everything else. Any info greatly appreciated.

Photos.

Let's start with various photos of the crown. My bore scope isn't the best so I apologize.










Gas port.


Dunno what caused this but there are semi-circular marks in certain parts of the barrel. Haven't cleaned it so maybe just oil residue or something.


Rifling in the throat.








Extension (which looks fine). I didn't take a super close look at the feed ramps but I didn't notice anything glaring whatsoever.

 

[Zak Smith]

were the muzzle threads cut with a file?

 

[Threadcutter308]

Another........

OK, First off;

1. The muzzle threading looks like shit.

2. The ding in the crown appears to protrude into the bore. It looks like shit too (based on the pic).

Borescopes and their associated pics are a thorny subject. A lot of barrels will shoot lights out, even though the borescope pics look like ratshit.

You need to contact the vendor and register a complaint in regard to numbers 1 and 2 above and get them to fix or replace. The bore condition (as evidenced by your pics) may or may not point to a barrel that doesn't group.

My guess (and it's just a guess) is that based on numbers 1 and 2 above, the barrel may not group. Most reputable 'smiths would be embarassed to have work like that even leave their shop.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I think the iPhone introduces artifacts at that magnification so in person, the threads don't look as bad as the photo. I haven't tried to thread anything on yet. But points taken and I'll reach out. I agree on the QC thing, maybe hoping I didn't notice or there is no final inspection before it goes out.

I just don't want to be chasing my tail with the barrel and given the amount I spent, I do have expectations that the overall quality should be better than my Faxon barrel that cost less than half the cost. I guess I'm trying to understand if there's a "standard practice" of rifling all starting at the same point. I've read a bit about the importance of the crown and the nick is the first thing I noticed. I figured if it made it out the door with that, there may be other issues so out came the bore scope. But yeah, I get the controversy which is why I made the "a little knowledge" comment.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Ballistic Advantage?

 

[pineoak]

The crown alone...

The threads alone...

I would not accept this barrel.

I would not mount it.

Do not shoot or use it.

Contact the vendor and make arrangements for a full refund. If they want it back it will be on their dime.

Refuse any offer of replacement. You've seen their honesty/work. Fool you twice. Just get your $ back and never look back at them as a vendor.

This isnt a precision barrel. It's a pipe with a small hole and deep scratches at one end made to look like threads

This is total BS.

If vendor refuses, contact your CC company and get your $ back.

You work too hard for your money to let them rip you off like this.

Barrel is the heart of accuracy on your rifle. Pay more to a quality vendor/barrel brand and get a quality barrel. Yes they're consumable but the quality of the barrel affects each and every round you send downrange. Waste of money to shoot match ammo in a low quality barrel imo.

If cost/budget is an issue, still get a high quality barrel,
but in a cheaper non barrel burning caliber like .308 or .223

 

[jbell]

I agree with all above, this is unacceptable work. Send it back and write off that gunsmith.

 

[Ape_Factory]

The crown alone...

The threads alone...

I would not accept this barrel.

I would not mount it.

Do not shoot or use it.

Contact the vendor and make arrangements for a full refund. If they want it back it will be on their dime.

Refuse any offer of replacement. You've seen their honesty/work. Fool you twice. Just get your $ back and never look back at them as a vendor.

This isnt a precision barrel. It's a pipe with a small hole and deep scratches at one end made to look like threads

This is total BS.

If vendor refuses, contact your CC company and get your $ back.

You work too hard for your money to let them rip you off like this.

Barrel is the heart of accuracy on your rifle. Pay more to a quality vendor/barrel brand and get a quality barrel. Yes they're consumable but the quality of the barrel affects each and every round you send downrange. Waste of money to shoot match ammo in a low quality barrel imo.

If cost/budget is an issue, still get a high quality barrel,
but in a cheaper non barrel burning caliber like .308 or .223

This was not a cheap barrel by any means, even with the Black Friday discount and was supposed to be a high quality barrel. It's a .223 Wylde barrel (emphasis on wylde!)

My first thought was if they let this out the door, they obviously don't care so likely a refund as opposed to a replacement barrel. I specifically went with this barrel so I could get the 5/8x24 threading and already purchased a mounting device in that thread pitch AND purchased a particular suppressor so I could get a muzzle device in that pitch for a .223 round. Live and learn.

I have one of their blanks on another rifle and that one put ten shots through a less than MOA hole and another test load produced an SD of zero over five shots! So a bit surprised that this thing showed up looking like it did.

Looking at White Oak currently, should have gone with them in the first place but they don't list a lot of what I would consider necessary information in their descriptions. I've sent them an email for more info.

Will update this thread when I have a resolution.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

That barrel looks like absolute fucking shit. Who's barrel is that?

 

[hlee]

If the OP had started this with “Hey, I got this Craddock/White Oak/Compass Lake barrel that has some apparent issues on a Black Friday deal. Should I put them on Blast?” The responses would be a resounding “No! Delete this thread. Contact the maker and let them make this right. Everyone lets one slip through QC on occasion. It’s a total DB move to bring this to a public forum before talking to the maker.” But, because the OP left the maker out of the discussion, it’s all “you have seen their work. Get your money back. Do a charge back. Post up the maker so we can all put them on blast.”

Start by contacting the maker/vendor and politely but firmly express your concerns and desire to return the barrel. You already have one good barrel from them. Which one was the fluke? Escalate as necessary.

 

[Supersubes]

Wow, that is just foul! Everything about it is just bad. Refund, and dont look back.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If the OP had started this with “Hey, I got this Craddock/White Oak/Compass Lake barrel that has some apparent issues on a Black Friday deal. Should I put them on Blast?” The responses would be a resounding “No! Delete this thread. Contact the maker and let them make this right. Everyone lets one slip through QC on occasion. It’s a total DB move to bring this to a public forum before talking to the maker.” But, because the OP left the maker out of the discussion, it’s all “you have seen their work. Get your money back. Do a charge back. Post up the maker so we can all put them on blast.”

Start by contacting the maker/vendor and politely but firmly express your concerns and desire to return the barrel. You already have one good barrel from them. Which one was the fluke? Escalate as necessary.

When someone ships out such a blatant piece of shit such as that it should be known. There is no way in hell that they didn't see that barrel and know its fucked. It's not like there's a slight defect or something, that barrel is absolutely fucked. The crown is fucked, the threads are fucked, the shoulder is fucked, and the gas port is fucked. In the makers defense they wouldn't know about the gas port without bore scoping it, but theres no excuse for that barrel to even make if out of a shit hole like BA or BCA.

 

[ma smith]

A dinged crown is really weird defect in a custom barrel,
threading doesn't look right at all, its all very odd QC

 

[Supersubes]

If the OP had started this with “Hey, I got this Craddock/White Oak/Compass Lake barrel that has some apparent issues on a Black Friday deal. Should I put them on Blast?” The responses would be a resounding “No! Delete this thread. Contact the maker and let them make this right. Everyone lets one slip through QC on occasion. It’s a total DB move to bring this to a public forum before talking to the maker.” But, because the OP left the maker out of the discussion, it’s all “you have seen their work. Get your money back. Do a charge back. Post up the maker so we can all put them on blast.”

Start by contacting the maker/vendor and politely but firmly express your concerns and desire to return the barrel. You already have one good barrel from them. Which one was the fluke? Escalate as necessary.

A fluke would be having one feature that was off. This thing is so bad it looks like a deliberate “fuck you”.

 

[Triple D]

What’s the over/under on the manufacturer beginning with a M or S?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

What’s the over/under on the manufacturer beginning with a M or S?

It would appear to be a McFucked. Was pretty easy to figure out going back in the OP's other posts.

 

[FisherT&C]

Prefit barrels are typically not test fired, they don't need to be if the work is done correctly. I would see if a cartridge will chamber by hand without getting bound up in the throat. The thing you see at the gas post is a chip from drilling the gas port, it could be brushed out. There usually is always a burr there that has to be smoothed out by initial break in. As far as the crown goes, it looks like they didn't completely face off the barrel after cutting it down to length. The crown could easily be fixed if they had cut an actual crown instead of leaving it flat. The muzzle threads look hideous and I would be suspicious of their concentricity especially if using a suppressor. Other than the gas port the other points you highlighted can be inspected without a scope and should have been addressed before shipping it out.

 

[kswaterfowl]

It would appear to be a McGowen. Was pretty easy to figure out going back in the OP's other posts.

Fixed it for you. I have no problem calling that asshole out.

 

[Ledzep]

My professional internet opinion:

Chamber looks like a reamer with no pilot or a very undersized pilot was used? The reamer cuts a chamber-shaped cut no matter whether it's centered or not so a cartridge will fit, but bullets are going to start off less-than-centered. May still shoot-- or maybe not. I've seen it both ways before with chambers like that. I've tried doing it wrong on purpose with some personal barrels before and I've never been able to replicate the off-kilter land cutting that I've seen in some barrels-- I don't know how they do it.

Gas port- meh. Not great but it'll not likely cause any issues.

Ding in crown is no bueno.

Threads and shoulder on the threads looks like amateur hour.

 

[jbell]

When someone ships out such a blatant piece of shit such as that it should be known. There is no way in hell that they didn't see that barrel and know its fucked. It's not like there's a slight defect or something, that barrel is absolutely fucked. The crown is fucked, the threads are fucked, the shoulder is fucked, and the gas port is fucked. In the makers defense they wouldn't know about the gas port without bore scoping it, but theres no excuse for that barrel to even make if out of a shit hole like BA or BCA.

Absolutely, the company who sold this barrel deserves whatever they get with public knowledge.

 

[jolofree]

That shit looks like I did it in shop class ~ 1976

 

[Mike Casselton]

were the muzzle threads cut with a file?

Probably not.
More likely a dull hacksaw.

 

[nikonNUT]

I hope there is a metric ton of anti-seize on those muzzle threads but they look like they were cut with a die (badly) and not single pointed. I see shit like that in my shop and somebody is going home and we are just doing rams for hydraulic cylinders not class 3 threads on a barrel.

 

[M4orturnate]

The ding in the crown is unacceptable. Id probably live with everything else or at least see if it shoots but crown damage out the box is a no bueno.

 

[Sogan]

my problem is that the threads and the ding would be very obvious to ANYONE handling the barrel that this is not ok. So I’d be pissed that it left the shop at all.

I also agree that the company name is important here. I’d imagine they will make it right but even if so, I still probably will be very cautious moving forward.

 

[Threadcutter308]

My professional internet opinion:

Chamber looks like a reamer with no pilot or a very undersized pilot was used? The reamer cuts a chamber-shaped cut no matter whether it's centered or not so a cartridge will fit, but bullets are going to start off less-than-centered. May still shoot-- or maybe not. I've seen it both ways before with chambers like that. I've tried doing it wrong on purpose with some personal barrels before and I've never been able to replicate the off-kilter land cutting that I've seen in some barrels-- I don't know how they do it.

Gas port- meh. Not great but it'll not likely cause any issues.

Ding in crown is no bueno.

Threads and shoulder on the threads looks like amateur hour.

For the life of me, I can't figure that one out either. I've had people take runs at trying to "explain" it to me. I've yet to hear anything remotely plausible. Can't even imagine being able to screw it up like that with a throating reamer.

 

[Ape_Factory]

If the OP had started this with “Hey, I got this Craddock/White Oak/Compass Lake barrel that has some apparent issues on a Black Friday deal. Should I put them on Blast?” The responses would be a resounding “No! Delete this thread. Contact the maker and let them make this right. Everyone lets one slip through QC on occasion. It’s a total DB move to bring this to a public forum before talking to the maker.” But, because the OP left the maker out of the discussion, it’s all “you have seen their work. Get your money back. Do a charge back. Post up the maker so we can all put them on blast.”

Start by contacting the maker/vendor and politely but firmly express your concerns and desire to return the barrel. You already have one good barrel from them. Which one was the fluke? Escalate as necessary.

I get what you're saying but my point of the post wasn't to blast a company but to rather understand what were issues and what weren't so I could contact the maker, focus on legitimate problems and ignore the rest. I figured the gas port probably wouldn't be an issue but I was very unsure on the rifling and sometimes you just don't know what you don't know. So I ask here as there are people far more knowledgable than myself on this sort of stuff. I was well aware the crown might be an issue due to the many posts here which talk about their importance.

I did reach out to them based on some of the feedback here and I kept it calm, polite and to the point in a detailed email with photos. I run a small business myself and I take enormous pride in customer service and being an asset to the community I serve. So I've seen both sides.

On the good barrel, it was their blank, finished by someone else.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I just went back and looked at the threads and yeah they're pretty rough. I pulled out a Faxon 300 blackout I had lying around and its worlds smoother. I then used a magnifying glass and the peak of the threads is galled pretty much everywhere. I don't have an extra 5/8x24 muzzle device that isn't mounted to test.

 

[Ape_Factory]

For the life of me, I can't figure that one out either. I've had people take runs at trying to "explain" it to me. I've yet to hear anything remotely plausible. Can't even imagine being able to screw it up like that with a throating reamer.

I'd always read that the rifling should all start at the same point and usually a barrel won't shoot if they're not. To me, it almost looks like it was cut right the first time and then another process came in and took out material, perhaps erroneously, causing the mismatch. I gleaned that from the angle of the grooves from whatever process was being used. Kind of like when you sand metal one way and when you change direction on one spot, it's evident. But I've not really seen the process in person to really understand the tools and techniques.

 

[supercorndogs]

I can't see the pictures, they just show up as a little blue question marks for me. I have a similar sounding barrel sitting next to me right now. I have to wonder if they were made by the same outfit. What looks like an off caterer cut is actually a paint line. Under magnification, the rifling protrudes past the muzzle, no crown at all. The muzzle threads are likely oversized, and the tenon thread are drastically undersize. The barrel can practically huluhoop in my action. The maker said "You can send it in if you want and we will check the threads again, because we normally check them before they leave." After I sent him the picture of the threads.

 

[JBoomhauer]

That barrel on the right is a straight up V thread.

 

[supercorndogs]

Accedntly made it NPT,

 

[JBoomhauer]

Gun plumber… amirite?

 

[Ape_Factory]

I can't see the pictures, they just show up as a little blue question marks for me. I have a similar sounding barrel sitting next to me right now. I have to wonder if they were made by the same outfit. What looks like an off caterer cut is actually a paint line. Under magnification, the rifling protrudes past the muzzle, no crown at all. The muzzle threads are likely oversized, and the tenon thread are drastically undersize. The barrel can practically huluhoop in my action. The maker said "You can send it in if you want and we will check the threads again, because we normally check them before they leave." After I sent him the picture of the threads.

Pics are still there, just checked, not sure why they're not working on your end.

Two days and no reply to my email with detailed images. Going to call them today, should be fun. Currently looking at WOA, possibly Compass? Doesn't appear Compass does fluting though and I really want to keep it to 16". A lot of these guys have the "better" blanks from the big names but they're all 18" and up.

 

[kswaterfowl]

I really hope you get it taken care of. But dealing with that guy is a giant pain, and it's usually everyone else's fault besides their own.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Pics are still there, just checked, not sure why they're not working on your end.

Two days and no reply to my email with detailed images. Going to call them today, should be fun. Currently looking at WOA, possibly Compass? Doesn't appear Compass does fluting though and I really want to keep it to 16". A lot of these guys have the "better" blanks from the big names but they're all 18" and up.

File a claim with your credit card company......

 

[Ape_Factory]

File a claim with your credit card company......

I'll likely do that as a last resort. I'm not going to waste too much time waiting for them to make it right but I will at least give them a chance. If I get a lot of push-back, absolutely will go that route.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Called and was actually an easy experience. Said the email I sent likely went to the gunsmith/engineer dept. but they'd send me a label to return the barrel and replace as needed.

 

[TimK]

Compass Lake will cut you any length you like.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Compass Lake will cut you any length you like.

I have a few questions in to them. Not sure they do fluting though.

 

[Ape_Factory]

I'm about 5 weeks out from the time I mailed my barrel back. Never had any sort of email or phone call to let me know what they were going to do. I included a letter outlining the issues and asked for a replacement. Out of curiosity, I went on their website a few minutes ago and checked the in-stock barrels. Yep, there she was, the barrel I sent back. Unbelievable. I kinda wonder if they've sent this thing out multiple times hoping it would stick. I did receive it rather quickly, well below their stated delivery times of 6-8 weeks, so it makes me wonder.

 

[dubya3]

I'm about 5 weeks out from the time I mailed my barrel back. Never had any sort of email or phone call to let me know what they were going to do. I included a letter outlining the issues and asked for a replacement. Out of curiosity, I went on their website a few minutes ago and checked the in-stock barrels. Yep, there she was, the barrel I sent back. Unbelievable. I kinda wonder if they've sent this thing out multiple times hoping it would stick. I did receive it rather quickly, well below their stated delivery times of 6-8 weeks, so it makes me wonder.

This one? If so that's some awfully shady stuff they're pulling. Glad I found this thread, and others, before I made an order with them. I'll stick with WOA I guess.

 

[Baron23]

I'm about 5 weeks out from the time I mailed my barrel back. Never had any sort of email or phone call to let me know what they were going to do. I included a letter outlining the issues and asked for a replacement. Out of curiosity, I went on their website a few minutes ago and checked the in-stock barrels. Yep, there she was, the barrel I sent back. Unbelievable. I kinda wonder if they've sent this thing out multiple times hoping it would stick. I did receive it rather quickly, well below their stated delivery times of 6-8 weeks, so it makes me wonder.

Wait....5 weeks after sending it back in with their approval to do so, its listed for sale on their site, and not a peep out of them at all?

Fuck them...at this point I would go CC charge back if it were I. Just saying...5 fucking weeks and they are trying to sell the same barrel again???

 

[CaptNemo]

Wait....5 weeks after sending it back in with their approval to do so, its listed for sale on their site, and not a peep out of them at all?

Fuck them...at this point I would go CC charge back if it were I. Just saying...5 fucking weeks and they are trying to sell the same barrel again???

This. BS That they would sell a returned barrel that had FUBAR muzzle threads.
At least turn the tenon down and recut them to 1/2"-28 and recrown the barrel.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Yep, that's the barrel. I've been absolutely slammed this week and haven't had a chance to call them and discuss. Should be able to give them a buzz on Friday and see what's what.

But I've had no communication from them since I sent the barrel back. No mention that they're fixing, replacing, telling me to f*ck off, zilch. I mean I suppose that could be a different barrel but I seriously doubt it. Literally the same specs I ordered.

 

[dubya3]

Yeah thats a fairly uncommon barrel. Not many people order a 223 Wylde with 5/8x24 thread. Get your money back boss.

 

[Baron23]

No mention that they're fixing, replacing, telling me to f*ck off, zilch.

5 weeks....5 WEEKS....and they are trying to sell it to some other schmuck

Let's try it again.....initiate a CC charge back...bet you get a call almost instantly.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Being a small business owner myself, one that prides himself on customer service, I go out of my way to make sure the client is happy and there's communication above and beyond. In addition to what I manufacture myself, I'm also a vendor for other companies and as everyone knows, supply chain has been a big issue the last few years. I've had exactly one charge back ever due to a rather impatient customer, waiting on another vendor's product. So I tend to NOT go the chargeback route when possible because it can be such a nightmare to deal with.

With that said, I called them this morning. They have always answered the phone and I've never had to leave a message. I explained the situation I asked if I could give them my order number. He said if I returned a barrel, I wouldn't have the new order number. Asked for my name which I gave and he said something to the extent "I'm sure they're making you a new one soon." I asked if there was a way to check, to make sure I wasn't lost in the shuffle as I hadn't heard anything and their reply was "We're a professional outfit we don't loose things in the shuffle." I said "ok" but as a small business owner myself, I understand things happen. I asked if there was an expected delivery time and their reply was "when it's done. They don't want to rush things just to get them out the door and want to do it right." I almost asked him what happened to the first barrel but bit my tongue. I'm trying to be as amicable as possible at the moment until I've had enough.

I have a feeling they've been receiving more than a few calls and they have one guy having to deal with said calls. So...their current times have grown from 6-8 weeks to 8-12 weeks. Barrel was sent back on the 19th of December and took four days to get there. So they had it two days prior to Christmas. I'm sure staff took time off to be with their families and enjoy the holidays. I can fully appreciate the need for that. So likely, they didn't even look at my barrel until after the new year. So we're essentially four weeks and a few days in. I'll likely let them do their thing until mid-February at this point. Given the fact I already had an initial wait, albeit a short one, that should be factored in. I personally feel I shouldn't be at the end of the line again but that's just me.

The other shitty part is I made a suppressor/mounting device choice based on the threading. So even if I go White Oak, at the very least, that's another $100+ for the suppressor mount since they don't do the 5/8" on a 223 barrel.

I'm very tempted to just purchase another barrel now but I'd rather not spend another $400+ and have what will hopefully be a perfect barrel from McGowan show up on round two. Live and learn.

 

[357Max]

The other shitty part is I made a suppressor/mounting device choice based on the threading. So even if I go White Oak, at the very least, that's another $100+ for the suppressor mount since they don't do the 5/8" on a 223 barrel.

Yes they do & there in stock right now. Predator's come std with 5/8x24" thread.

.223/5.56 Predator Barrel, 1-8 twist

AR15 .223/5.56 Mid-weight Predator Barrel with Gas Manifold (.875), 1-8 twist. Available in 16, 18 and 20 inch lengths.

www.whiteoakarmament.com

 

[smoothy8500]

And you can get it fluted....win-win!