New Potential World Record ELR Shot

[Bushmaster7]

Just saw this on my Guns America Digest feed. Based on a Russian .40 Lobaev Improved (a modified 408 Cheytac), claims a 4,604 yards (~2.6 mile) shot using an SVLK-14S rifle on a 1 meter target; but not verified as of yet. Still very interesting.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ru...ns-set-new-long-range-world-record-2-6-miles/

 

[poison123]

Only took him like 80 rounds right?

 

[Hoffer]

1 hit is not enough. Anyone can get lucky once.

 

[Bushmaster7]

That is why I said ‘potential’. The 408 Cheytac and it’s variants are capable of this. Amazing round for sure with the right rifle.

 

[03psd]

80-100 MOA cant on the scope mount. Hmmm..... It what point does it become a mortar? just curious.

 

[Bushmaster7]

The 2016 KO2M NRA match at Whittington had 1st and 2nd shot hits at 2,477 yards (~1.4 miles), and the HRC rifle team has had 4,210 yard shots (~2.4 miles) with Hill Country Rifles with 375 Cheytac rounds, so this is not outside the realm of probability at all.

 

[Hoffer]

The HRC shot looked like an all day shoot with who knows how many shots fired ... 100+ / 200+ shots?
Where do you draw the line? 1 week shoot to 8000 yards with 1000 rounds. Sooner or later you will hit something.

Most likely the reason Litz put up the ELR Central specs for a record. 3 shots 3 hits cold at a fixed size target

Been a full season since then and no one has even done it at 1500 yards

 

[lte82]

Been a full season since then and no one has even done it at 1500 yards

Has anyone tried a creedmoor yet? I hear those can make 1 mile cold bore hits without trying.

 

[Centurion123]

100% agreed regarding the BS number of shots on some of these "records". My 300WM with 215 Bergers have a max range of about 7000 yards IIRC. If I aim at the sky (or the top of a tall 2x4 40ft in front of me), have a 15x15ft target surrounded by water (makes spotting doable) and enough ammo, I will hit the "target" in the end. Does that mean that I'm the record holder??

 

[GIXXER2000]

I live in NW AZ and am lucky to have 4000+ meters of desert 15 min drive from my house. When I shot ELR if I cant get a hit I 3 rounds I don't count it. Currently with my with a.338LM my personal best is 2445 yards. I am now working on the next target and its at 2815 yards. Most of the time I shoot alone so I can be hard to see the splash. I agree if you lob 100 rounds out at a target the law of averages says eventually you will get a hit.I am going o have a .375 CT build next year so I can get to the 3k club.

 

[delfuego]

Has anyone tried a creedmoor yet? I hear those can make 1 mile cold bore hits without trying.

You sir, are my new favorite sh member

 

[...]

until someone sets up a "standard" for shooting records......these "world record" claims are all BS......

i mean hell, i can shoot at a target the size of a school bus.....and if i send enough rounds down range, im bound to hit something eventually.

personally, i think the "standard" should be a full sized IDPA target......you have 10 rounds and they have to be your first 10 rounds of the day....and you have to make at least 6 of those 10 rounds on target

 

[TripleBull]

The standards you're trying to set are arbitrary. As long as the shooter tells the facts, then it is what it is. Then the next person tries to better it - longer distance in the same number of shots or same distance less shots. Either is arguably better. The gold standard is first shot kill.

 

[Hoffer]

Has anyone tried a creedmoor yet? I hear those can make 1 mile cold bore hits without trying.

I think part of the problem is no one wants a record under 2000 yards or they will be forever ridiculed. Talking about 338+.
6.5 to a mile would be satisfying in itself

 

[lte82]

I was not at all serious by the way.

 

[Hoffer]

I was not at all serious by the way.

You forgot the smiley face

There have been shooters hit the 2000 yard gong with 6.5's before up here in NorCal at URSA events. Not coldbore ... Has to be a perfect day though

 

[SIDS01]

Been a full season since then and no one has even done it at 1500 yards

I suspect the reason nobody has done it is there hasn't been anybody try it who is serious about ELR and who takes that standard seriously enough. That probably includes AB.

Derek ran the table at the KO2M to 1888 yards. Didn't count as a world record because the later strings weren't starting from a cold bore, no fresh paint on the target, no video etc. Maybe not a Litz certified world record, but certainly a shock and awe sort of ELR demonstration. The KO2M score sheets provide a pretty clear indication of the current ELR capabilities. Half the competitors were done by the second target, and only 1 hit on each was required to continue.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I suspect the reason nobody has done it is there hasn't been anybody try it who is serious about ELR and who takes that standard seriously enough. That probably includes AB.

Derek ran the table at the KO2M to 1888 yards. Didn't count as a world record because the later strings weren't starting from a cold bore, no fresh paint on the target, no video etc. Maybe not a Litz certified world record, but certainly a shock and awe sort of ELR demonstration. The KO2M score sheets provide a pretty clear indication of the current ELR capabilities. Half the competitors were done by the second target, and only 1 hit on each was required to continue.

You also need to take in consideration that Derek and others at the KO2M had a limited amount of attempts per target, a 9 minute time limit to run all 5 targets combined as well as dealing with what ever wind conditions were dealt to you when you turn was up and a limit of two spotters to help on correction calls.
The KO2M forces fast response shooter/spotter skills and utilizing science to maximum in order to get impacts then repositioning both horizontally and inclination your sights while trying to find the next target in the steep mountain side terrain all under the time restraint.

Not the same as shooting at one target when the weather is most favorable, with unlimited time and ammo attempts as well as with folks at multiple positions at the line and down range helping with corrections at times. I will not take away the pride in anyone's personal attempt to push the limits if to them it's a new record with bragging rights so be it. What it really does is pushes the limits in ELR in which the industry has improved on, it wasn't that long ago a person was considered a whack job for wanting to hit a target at a mile.

I for one enjoy the challenge, skills and science behind what it takes to achieve this under pressure in which is always improving.

Cheers

 

[Mr.BR]

So far no one set a framework for what size target and number of shoots for the record ,but i love it how you take the record for notverified,yes some Russians could be just fake news.

So far HRC 'records ' have been the chessiest and most widely publicised ,but follow the same script an old fart fancies himself for record books so hires a team to build him a rifle rent a range and get him on target in xxxx number of attemps the old fart is basicaly there just to squeze the trigger and pay the whole show and definetly not low shot count affair, as on one of the vids for the 3.800 yard record some one is cooling the barrel with a damp rag

''"We at HCR want to give a special thanks to Jim Spinella. Jim is a great reminder that our business does not exist without great customers,"

Reverse -20 mil ramp for the old fart at HRC and a box of ammo LOL too much strain on the neck shooting all day trying to hit the target [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/www.range365.com\/sites\/range365.com\/files\/styles\/655_1x_\/public\/screen_shot_2015-10-01_at_1.00.36_pm.png?itok=9PS_RZSU"}[/IMG2]

 

[Hoffer]

I must say all the "records" are definitely interesting and even with lots of rounds downrange very hard to do.
If the general community does not take AB's format serious next year the AB rules are done.
Even KO2M uses targets much larger than the 36 x 36 AB spec at the farther distances otherwise it would be the KO1.5M. It was disappointing to see a large number the shooters not even hit the 1st target. Needs to be some way of weeding out people that can't make the cut so better shooters have a chance to shoot

 

[sandwarrior]

If you are looking at it from a "record" standpoint, there is a lot that can be deleted simply by never verifying the truth on video. The whole shebang not being sanctioned.

The scary part of it is, this company is working with the Russian military. Their capability, while questionable here, may not be so questionable in the near future as it may matter in real life, not for the record. The only other country I've seen civilians push this far, besides us, is the Australians. And, they're lucky to have that with the limitations their gov't puts on them.

 

[MTFalconer]

I'm thinking, let's trust the Russians? I mean it's not like they would lie.....right?

 

[sandwarrior]

I'm thinking, let's trust the Russians? I mean it's not like they would lie.....right?

Yup, I wouldn't trust them to post an unsanctioned record.

I really don't trust them that in the future, if we go back into armed conflict somewhere in the world, we may see this kind of sniping where, if it's masked by other fire, we might never even know we were getting sniped. That is disturbing.

 

[MTFalconer]

I'm in agreement with some of the above posts as well. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually. We had range days shooting iron sighted k98 mausers well out past 1k yards. Eventually we'd hit steel. Not exactly what I would call controlled fire at all but if someone stood there long enough we could hit them holding well into the trees above the back berm for holds. Good way to waste a box of ammo for sure.

 

[Mr.BR]

If you are looking at it from a "record" standpoint, there is a lot that can be deleted simply by never verifying the truth on video. The whole shebang not being sanctioned.

The scary part of it is, this company is working with the Russian military. Their capability, while questionable here, may not be so questionable in the near future as it may matter in real life, not for the record. The only other country I've seen civilians push this far, besides us, is the Australians. And, they're lucky to have that with the limitations their gov't puts on them.

LOL

Lobaev is a small manufacturer (suosedly builds 20 rifles a month) of high end rifles and generaly to expensive for the military ,for now mostly used by SF , guy learned his craft in US and early on most guns were BR and F class types.

Targets hit past 4000m was first done by FinnAccuracy in Finland with a modified Sako TRG M10 , at that time old farts at HRC were still dancing around 3.600 yards and Lobaevs team were one upping the HRC, a bit later a Frenchman shot past 4000m , i havent heard of any Australians? By the way in wake of Las Vegas shoot Australian goverment proposed to again tighten the gun laws by forcing sports shooters to store their guns only on the range premisses vs at home so Aussies chances at shooting sports are diminishing every day.
http://lobaevarms.com/about/

Yes fake news , has to be from Russia look around , you are living a fake news 24/7 cycle for past couple of decades ,

 

[TripleBull]

i havent heard of any Australians?

 

[sandwarrior]

LOL

Lobaev is a small manufacturer (suosedly builds 20 rifles a month) of high end rifles and generaly to expensive for the military ,for now mostly used by SF , guy learned his craft in US and early on most guns were BR and F class types.

Targets hit past 4000m was first done by FinnAccuracy in Finland with a modified Sako TRG M10 , at that time old farts at HRC were still dancing around 3.600 yards and Lobaevs team were one upping the HRC, a bit later a Frenchman shot past 4000m , i havent heard of any Australians? By the way in wake of Las Vegas shoot Australian goverment proposed to again tighten the gun laws by forcing sports shooters to store their guns only on the range premisses vs at home so Aussies chances at shooting sports are diminishing every day.
http://lobaevarms.com/about/

Yes fake news , has to be from Russia look around , you are living a fake news 24/7 cycle for past couple of decades ,

Yup! And I hear from the "gun-grabber", "Common sense Idiots" who say it's time you got these for now, when they really mean all taken away. Because law abiding people need to have more restrictions on them. If we go by what kills the most, the common sense idiots need their cars taken away. And, because cell phones are such a high percentage of crashes, we need those taken away. 2015 statistics is 38,300 killed and 4.4 million injured. As usual gun deaths were far less.

 

[sandwarrior]

Yup! And I hear from the "gun-grabber", "Common sense Idiots" who say it's time you got these for now, when they really mean all taken away. Because law abiding people need to have more restrictions on them. If we go by what kills the most, the common sense idiots need their cars taken away. And, because cell phones are such a high percentage of crashes, we need those taken away. 2015 statistics is 38,300 killed and 4.4 million injured. As usual gun deaths were far less.

Added:

A gun control state who say's they don't have "gun violence" is lying. Violence is violence:
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine-41524820/murdered-by-her-stalker

 

[_Windrider_]

Added:

A gun control state who say's they don't have "gun violence" is lying. Violence is violence:
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine-41524820/murdered-by-her-stalker

did you e that story recently how 1 girl got raped 3 different times walking home in London by 3 different people over the course of an hour? but gun control right.

 

[sandwarrior]

did you e that story recently how 1 girl got raped 3 different times walking home in London by 3 different people over the course of an hour? but gun control right.

I must've hit quote instead of edit.

But yeah, you always hear British and other 'experts' talk there is no violence because they have less ' gun violence' total. They have a comparable amount gun violence' per capital, and a lot more violence per in total than we do. Crooks aren't afraid because honest people can't defend themselves. What better way to control the population.

 

[mitch260]

I must say all the "records" are definitely interesting and even with lots of rounds downrange very hard to do.
If the general community does not take AB's format serious next year the AB rules are done.
Even KO2M uses targets much larger than the 36 x 36 AB spec at the farther distances otherwise it would be the KO1.5M. It was disappointing to see a large number the shooters not even hit the 1st target. Needs to be some way of weeding out people that can't make the cut so better shooters have a chance to shoot

Hoffer, I was very disappointed to hear about Eduardo's decision to go with a huge target at "2 miles". It was obviously more about the distance and being able to claim the hit then it was about trying to push the envelope.

I agree on what you say about the first target, and to keep that in perspective, it was a 24" tall by 36" wide target. 300's and 338's would own that game.

 

[mitch260]

Guys, a big reason you haven't seen this happen yet, is that with the AB guidelines, it needs to be an actual event/match for legitimacy, which means setting up an entire event.

We're working on this since we'd really like to see guys put there cold bore shots to the test, especially more guys from the tactical and PRS crowd.

Also, keep in mind that there are a lot of personalities and reputations to uphold in this world, and I think some top name guys wouldn't risk their reputation as an expert, or their reputation of what they are truly capable of, by attempting these shots at an event in front of people. They could possibly lose more than they would stand to gain.

My opinion is that across the board, what is truly capable at ELR has been over shadowed by stories of attempts that have been embellished. I would be tempted to wager that there are probably 10 or less people in the country actively shooting, in any discipline, that could make first round hits past 2000 meters more often than not, let alone 3 for 3, but identifying who those guys are could be tough.

 

[Hoffer]

Very true about the reputations Mitch. Once you rise to the top extra pressure is always there because everyone is watching. If you get a bad draw and hit some strong wind you wont show your potential. All people read is where you finished and not the conditions in which it was shot. More downside than up, but thats competition

 

[Milo 2.5]

Very true about the reputations Mitch. Once you rise to the top extra pressure is always there because everyone is watching. If you get a bad draw and hit some strong wind you wont show your potential. All people read is where you finished and not the conditions in which it was shot. More downside than up, but thats competition

One way of looking at it, but even on this forum there were some unrealistic comments concerning record shots when it was brought up 2 yrs ago. People with inflated estimations of their ability spoke too soon. I live in WY, and if I wanted a record shot, or shots(lol), I'd need to be on standby for many days looking for a suitable day, so you are right on conditions.
Heck, someone will position weather stations every 500 yards after 1K and link all to a program or app to find a firing solution and still fail, and said this way back, you tube will crown the king.

 

[Hoffer]

Hi Milo,

I was referring to matches like the KO2M where there is lots of pressure and magazine / online coverage.

Anyone can look good on Youtube with the right editing assuming you have the right kick ass music ;')

 

[Milo 2.5]

Hi Milo,

I was referring to matches like the KO2M where there is lots of pressure and magazine / online coverage.

Anyone can look good on Youtube with the right editing assuming you have the right kick ass music ;')

I caught what you were saying, understood fully. I guess I've shot enough ELR to never judge anyone's performance, at any venue, under any circumstances, some days aren't meant to be, at any skill level IMO.

 

[Hoffer]

I caught what you were saying, understood fully. I guess I've shot enough ELR to never judge anyone's performance, at any venue, under any circumstances, some days aren't meant to be, at any skill level IMO.

Wise words

 

[Bushmaster7]

OK, here you go - 5,000 yards. So all you mall ninja ELR scoffers can knock this one too now. After load development took him 7 shots to get on a 40" target at 5,000 yards.

 

[morganlamprecht]

After load development took him 7 shots to get on a 40" target at 5,000 yards.

thats not what it says...

 

[lash]

thats not what it says...

^^^This^^^

I am not scoffing at the hit at 5000 yards. No matter what else you may think, that is an awesome thing to do. But to summarize by saying, "After load development took him 7 shots to get on a 40" target at 5,000 yards." is simplifying and biasing the discussion in a specific direction. There were 37 shots total taken on the target, and while only seven of them were of the load that finally impacted the target, all of those other shots were information gathering shots at the 5000 yd. distance. To say otherwise is to minimize the reality of what it takes, and misrepresents what happened. Now if all of the previous shots had been at some other shorter range during 'load development', I'd accept that statement at face value.

If that team wants to solidify the record, they should take that same load used to get the impact and go out again to find out how many shots it takes to get an impact at that point.

I'm also curious if or why they stopped after one impact. Or was there further attempts without impact.

Again, I am not scoffing and also have not shot at near that distance. I have neither the proper rifle, shooting venue, nor team to do such a thing. However, when I made my .338 LM hits at 1840 yards, it was three impacts in a row, in a 14 inch "group", after one missed shot. Point being, I did not just hit the plate once and throw up my arms in celebration at the impact. Yes, 1840 yards is a pittance compared to 5000 yards and 5000 is exponentially more difficult. Making any hit at that range is awesome in and of itself, but the question being asked is whether making that one hit itself should be considered a record.

The very positive side of all of these attempts is the technical advancements being accomplished in order to make these attempts at all possible. It is moving the sport forward and raising the very questions being asked. This should all be viewed as necessary feedback, not nay-saying.

 

[_Windrider_]

my math says it was the 27th shot. we are definitely in need of some agreed upon guidelines in order to determine new longest shot ever. i mean, give anyone 50 chances to connect once and your odds get better with each shot.

We need a sanctioned event with rules and what you did in practice for said event means nothing unless you do it at said event.

 

[vh20]

From the article:

"Charlie shot a 40-inch target at 5,000 yards, which means that at a minimum his rifle is capable of shooting a .80 inch group at 100 yards."

So, one hit out of 37 at 5000 means you can determine the accuracy level of the rifle according to the author. When the author demonstrates such a complete lack of understanding of the subject matter, it puts the entire article under suspicion in terms of what is being reported accurately. Of course they go on to state that the actual accuracy level of that particular rifle is really 1/4 MOA (of course! Aren't they all?). So...didn't they already do load development, apparently?

TD - Your math is correct and matches the first thing the author said, but then he goes and says "37" shots later (another inaccuracy- which is correct?). Also, my Statistics teacher in college would tell you that outcomes of prior events do not affect the probability of future outcomes, thus the probability for a hit is the same on every shot regardless of the number of prior hits and misses. Put another way, the probability of a heads on a coin flip is 50%, same for tails. If you were to somehow flip 20 tails in a row, the probability for a heads doesn't go up. It's still 50% with each flip. It's a geeky point, but one of the few things I actually retained from that class!

 

[Milo 2.5]

[No message]

 

[_Windrider_]

From the article:

TD - Your math is correct and matches the first thing the author said, but then he goes and says "37" shots later (another inaccuracy- which is correct?). Also, my Statistics teacher in college would tell you that outcomes of prior events do not affect the probability of future outcomes, thus the probability for a hit is the same on every shot regardless of the number of prior hits and misses. Put another way, the probability of a heads on a coin flip is 50%, same for tails. If you were to somehow flip 20 tails in a row, the probability for a heads doesn't go up. It's still 50% with each flip. It's a geeky point, but one of the few things I actually retained from that class!

Well hopefully at this level the guy has some decent follow through and a couple good spotters which can walk him into a bit closer with each miss. i wasnt thinking statistics, only that for every shot and every miss provided you can see a splash or your miss, the more shots you take, a hit probability should go up.

 

[Hoffer]

OK, here you go - 5,000 yards. So all you mall ninja ELR scoffers can knock this one too now. After load development took him 7 shots to get on a 40" target at 5,000 yards.

Awesome effort, but I think the direction of this thread is 1 hit is not enough

 

[lash]

TD - Your math is correct and matches the first thing the author said, but then he goes and says "37" shots later (another inaccuracy- which is correct?). !

What he said.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Awesome effort, but I think the direction of this thread is 1 hit is not enough

You have the best quotable material, remember 1 thing, this guy did it, no one is this conversation or thread has come close to doing it. Plus there is no governing body to establish rules.

 

[poison123]

You have the best quotable material, remember 1 thing, this guy did it, no one is this conversation or thread has come close to doing it. Plus there is no governing body to establish rules.

LOL thats bullshit. Just about anyone on this thread if they throw enough money down range can hit it once. Hitting it once .......after how ever many shots and stopping is bullshit. Its not a record...its pure luck unless he sent another few rounds down range and connected.

 

[Hoffer]

LOL thats bullshit. Just about anyone on this thread if they throw enough money down range can hit it once. Hitting it once .......after how ever many shots and stopping is bullshit. Its not a record...its pure luck unless he sent another few rounds down range and connected.

Agreed, but 5000 yards is a loooong way out. When we go from 2000 yards to 2500 it takes a while to even find the target. And that extra 500 yards is not 20% harder, it's twice as hard.
5000 is pretty much low earth orbit.
I started another thread here discussing the challenge of such a shot.
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...4190-technical-problems-with-a-5000-yard-shot

The odds of hitting more that once are probably in the 1 in 10,000 range

 

[Milo 2.5]

LOL thats bullshit. Just about anyone on this thread if they throw enough money down range can hit it once. Hitting it once .......after how ever many shots and stopping is bullshit. Its not a record...its pure luck unless he sent another few rounds down range and connected.

I just said he did it, I can pick his story apart as well as the next guy, I'll choose not to. I'm sure as always, we did not get the full version.