$1600 for the G3 Razor? Even after the recent price hike?Yeah I'm not sure about $1500, at that price just pay an extra $100 and get a Vortex 1-10 or save a bit of money and get the Vudu 1-10.
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$1600 for the G3 Razor? Even after the recent price hike?Yeah I'm not sure about $1500, at that price just pay an extra $100 and get a Vortex 1-10 or save a bit of money and get the Vudu 1-10.
I can only speak for my $1500 Liberty optics 1-10$1600 for the G3 Razor? Even after the recent price hike?
Unfortunately they're no longer close to that price. Also, while PA optics don't go on sale often, you're comparing a super sale price to what is basically MSRP.I can only speak for my $1500 Liberty optics 1-10
That's pretty normal for new product innovation... Someone does something new/innovative, competitors monitor if the product works and the market responds positively, if so they develop their own versions...It’s interesting to me that for a decade of LPVOs there has been maybe one 1-10, now a half dozen~ish 1-10s are rolling out at the same time
I found that the crosshair helps with centering my focus on the POA with 1x if the red dot isn't bright enough compared to your typical eotech. This is my experience using March Shorty with DR-1. However, for close quarter eotech reticle is still the fastest IMO1. As someone who uses their LPVO as a red dot at 1x, I want a totally clean FOV with nothing but an Eotech-style horseshoe/dot (which the original reticle accomplishes beautifully). In my opinion, adding a full duplex is a big step backward to the early days of LPVOs. It segments your FOV at 1x, and adds clutter, both of which I consider highly undesirable for close-range dynamic shooting.
The Plx 1-8 is absolutely daylight bright in full Arkansas summer sun. But then again, I'm not shooting in full sun over snow, but I can't help but think that would only apply to a fairly limited number of users.I found that the crosshair helps with centering my focus on the POA with 1x if the red dot isn't bright enough compared to your typical eotech.
Exactly my point. That's why I like the original reticle better than everything else out there.However, for close quarter eotech reticle is still the fastest IMO
My thoughts as well. Though I have never handled one, I am sure they are solid scopes based on all the good reviews they get. However, at $1500 I think PA is pricing themselves too close to better known and more established competitors.Yeah I'm not sure about $1500, at that price just pay an extra $100 and get a Vortex 1-10 or save a bit of money and get the Vudu 1-10.
Really interested in how the illumination turns out on this one, looking forward to your review.Since it is not going to start shipping until March, I do not know if I am supposed to get into the details or not. At first blush it does look like a really nice design. It is essentially same size and weight as the NX8 1-8x, but the eyepiece is the opposite of finicky. This scope is very easy to get behind. I'll need to play with it behind a clip-on.
ILya
Really interested in how the illumination turns out on this one, looking forward to your review.
Unfortunately they're no longer close to that price. Also, while PA optics don't go on sale often, you're comparing a super sale price to what is basically MSRP.
Also, this has a weight (~4.5 oz based on manufacturer claims) and size advantage over the G3. It seems like a direct competitor to the NX8, and an alternative to the G3. Where the new 1-10 VUDU looks like a copy of the G3.
I'm looking forward to see how it stacks up.
Dumb people will keep buying dumb products becuase they haven't been educated yet. Ignorance is a great salesman.
Jesus, you must be the life of every party...Close enough that there is no reason to buy a PA when you can spend a little more for a G3 or even a NX8.
4 oz on a 7-9lb rifle, nobody cares or is going to notice.
The Vudo 1-6 FFP came out BEFORE Vortex came out with the G3, which is their first FFP LPV Razor. If anything, Vortex stole the idea from them, except there are about half a dozen other FFP LPV's that beat both to market.
BDC in a scope in 2022 is just laughable. Unless its a military optic slaved to a known load (Such as the 14.5 and 20" ACOGS or the M145 for M80) its just retarded.
Dumb people will keep buying dumb products becuase they haven't been educated yet. Ignorance is a great salesman.
Jesus, you must be the life of every party...
I'd notice another 4-5 oz on top of a rifle... Just because you look for specific attributes doesn't mean everyone wants what you want.
I was mostly talking about the 1-10. Not many people give a fuck about a FFP 1-6. Lots of brands put out LOW manufactured 1-6 FFP LVPOs that don't anymore.
It's not difficult not make BDCs for work. Doesn't even take math anymore, just some simple data, an app and a little dope.
BTW, the cheap price on a G3 is now $2k...
Illya, I will take all the help I can get. This is a ground up new no compromise optical design with all new turret design as well. Like always our goal is to outperform at the price point.Since it is not going to start shipping until March, I do not know if I am supposed to get into the details or not. At first blush it does look like a really nice design. It is essentially same size and weight as the NX8 1-8x, but the eyepiece is the opposite of finicky. This scope is very easy to get behind. I'll need to play with it behind a clip-on.
ILya
Nothing in the near term but our new Houston facility will give us capabilities to do things we were not able to in the past.Contacted him through Reddit to get in touch with you.
While you're here, has a PLx prism ever been explored? Love my ACSS TA31 very much, but those are discontinued. Would love to see your reticles in some premier tough but lightweight housings and great glass again.
You can adjust/compensate BDCs with different zeros. Although I've not experienced much issue with BDC's grossly mismatching my drops.BDC are slower less intuitive and just plain stupid outside of the examples I already gave.
Who the fuck wants to know that 1 means 143 yards 2 means 185 yards 3 means 264 yards 4 means 381 and 5 means 675. Your buddy who is spotting tells you are off 1.5mils. Sorry bubba how many mils is in each "BDC" unit? Oh your 6.5cm requires 7.5 mils at 1K. How many BDC's is that?
There is a reason we use Mils (and even Moa for the boomers). Its a universal measurement that we all speak.
You aren't noticing 4 oz on a fully kitted carbine/rifle. As someone who has humped hundreds of miles with one, its negligible. Maybe lift some weights or something.
1-6FFP is 95% as effective as a 1-10. The extra 4 on the top aren't as useful as your think, especially since you have no parallax adjustment. The LOW brands stopped making the 1-6FFP because they were mostly dogshit. They were not daylight bright, they had terrible reticles and abysmal eyeboxes. Eotech which is a Jappense OEM has a 1-6 that is a superior design. Now they have a 1-10.
That's a whole lot of assuming every gun owner is a lab grown clone of you, that happens to have the same guns using the same ammo for the same purposes. Not sure what percentage of LPVO's users always work in a shooter/spotter team format, but I'd put money on it being low.BDC are slower less intuitive and just plain stupid outside of the examples I already gave.
Who the fuck wants to know that 1 means 143 yards 2 means 185 yards 3 means 264 yards 4 means 381 and 5 means 675. Your buddy who is spotting tells you are off 1.5mils. Sorry bubba how many mils is in each "BDC" unit? Oh your 6.5cm requires 7.5 mils at 1K. How many BDC's is that?
There is a reason we use Mils (and even Moa for the boomers). Its a universal measurement that we all speak.
You aren't noticing 4 oz on a fully kitted carbine/rifle. As someone who has humped hundreds of miles with one, its negligible. Maybe lift some weights or something.
BDC are slower less intuitive and just plain stupid outside of the examples I already gave.
Who the fuck wants to know that 1 means 143 yards 2 means 185 yards 3 means 264 yards 4 means 381 and 5 means 675. Your buddy who is spotting tells you are off 1.5mils. Sorry bubba how many mils is in each "BDC" unit? Oh your 6.5cm requires 7.5 mils at 1K. How many BDC's is that?
This is a very simple thing to do and should be common knowledge. And if done properly, can make your BDC match very closely to whatever load you are usingYou can adjust/compensate BDCs with different zeros. Although I've not experienced much issue with BDC's grossly mismatching my drops.
No shit. Go back and read what I wrote.You can adjust/compensate BDCs with different zeros. Although I've not experienced much issue with BDC's grossly mismatching my drops.
I think you need to accept that many/most people are not looking for the same things as you.
I have an early LOW FFP 1-6, and it's fine for all the reasons you found fault. But the FOV is terrible and FFP isn't needed and doesn't help with 1 mil divisions.
Damn. You sound angry as fuck because not everyone’s brain works the same as your apparent master brain.No shit. Go back and read what I wrote.
It's not intuitive. You can make up any unit of measurement and calculated/translate. Its slow, a pain in the ass and you end up talking 2 different "languages" instead of 1. BDC's were designed to simplify optics for military weapon systems and to dumb down holds overs for hunters who might learn something between taking hits of meth and downing Bud Lights. 20 years ago when most people were ignorant and we did not have easy access to the knowledge we have today, it made sense. We know better now.
Most people are buying shit that they don't understand. That is the simple facts. Our jobs here should be to educate them so they don't make poor purchases and come to regret it later.
I can make "anything" work. I could drive a horse to work or get my electricity from a water wheel. When you have superior options, you take those.
All of the earlier LOW FFPs (with maybe the exception of the Vudu, not sure who makes it) suck. They are not daylight bright, they have poor reticles , super tight eyeboxes and cheap plastic turrets. I owned most of them at one time or another trying to find a cheaper alternitive to the Short Dot.
There is ZERO reason to use a BDC type reticle when you have Mil Trees available unless you are slaved to a known load/weapon system that is already calibrated such as the ACOG or M145. Everyone speaks in Mils or Moa. Why the fuck would you want to have to learn/use/understand another system unique to one optic? Thats fucking retarded. Its not making anything easier, its making things harder for the mouth breathers who if anything, need shit simplified.
Damn. You sound angry as fuck because not everyone’s brain works the same as your apparent master brain.
What’s intuitive to you may not be for someone else. Clearly people use BDCs and appreciate them for what they are. Careful calling things retarded when you’re misspelling words because you spell phonetically...like a child
Damn, I forgot to come back to this thread and almost missed this gold...No shit. Go back and read what I wrote.
It's not intuitive. You can make up any unit of measurement and calculated/translate. Its slow, a pain in the ass and you end up talking 2 different "languages" instead of 1. BDC's were designed to simplify optics for military weapon systems and to dumb down holds overs for hunters who might learn something between taking hits of meth and downing Bud Lights. 20 years ago when most people were ignorant and we did not have easy access to the knowledge we have today, it made sense. We know better now.
Most people are buying shit that they don't understand. That is the simple facts. Our jobs here should be to educate them so they don't make poor purchases and come to regret it later.
I can make "anything" work. I could drive a horse to work or get my electricity from a water wheel. When you have superior options, you take those.
All of the earlier LOW FFPs (with maybe the exception of the Vudu, not sure who makes it) suck. They are not daylight bright, they have poor reticles , super tight eyeboxes and cheap plastic turrets. I owned most of them at one time or another trying to find a cheaper alternitive to the Short Dot.
There is ZERO reason to use a BDC type reticle when you have Mil Trees available unless you are slaved to a known load/weapon system that is already calibrated such as the ACOG or M145. Everyone speaks in Mils or Moa. Why the fuck would you want to have to learn/use/understand another system unique to one optic? Thats fucking retarded. Its not making anything easier, its making things harder for the mouth breathers who if anything, need shit simplified.
Tell me how you tune a load to line up at 3 for 300 yards? Does it still work at 4 or 2 or anything. What is your zero now? Do you create some unicorn load that only works with some of that BDC? Do you have a cheat sheet to convert everything over? Are all your number some random drop distance?Damn, I forgot to come back to this thread and almost missed this gold...
If you can make a BDC reticle work, there's almost nothing more intuitive than lining up the 3 line with 300 yards (or whatever you've tuned it for)...
Although, I guess I don't know who you're talking to in mils while trying to quickly get off shots at various ranges, shooting into blindingly bright snow... You have some weird fringe use cases... I must be too ignorant to understand what's going on during your sasquatch hunts...
Perhaps you don't shit up a new product intro thread with your oddly specific use case demands.
Pretty funny to think you're always the smartest guy in the room and yet not know how easy it is to get most any BDC to line up plenty close enough with most common ammo.Tell me how you tune a load to line up at 3 for 300 yards? Does it still work at 4 or 2 or anything. What is your zero now? Do you create some unicorn load that only works with some of that BDC? Do you have a cheat sheet to convert everything over? Are all your number some random drop distance?
Pretty funny how you don't understand that you will have a zero different than 100 or 50/200 so you can actually hit what you need to on 1X.Pretty funny to think you're always the smartest guy in the room and yet not know how easy it is to get most any BDC to line up plenty close enough with most common ammo.
This just reminded me of another reason I like BDC's. I've got 5.56 AR's from 10.5"-18" right now with almost every length in 1 inch increments in between, and I'll be damned if I'm going to remember and or reference my dope for each individual gun when I can just adjust my zero for each one to get close to the BDC, verify at range then never think about it again.If you can make a BDC reticle work, there's almost nothing more intuitive than lining up the 3 line with 300 yards (or whatever you've tuned it for)...
Nah. Across a bunch of different barrel lengths my close zeros are between 45-60 yards with far zeros like 190-220. That's very acceptable. Weird how you think you know where my rifles are zeroed.Pretty funny how you don't understand that you will have a zero different than 100 or 50/200 so you can actually hit what you need to on 1X.
This is exactly right. I use the same method and all of my rifles with BDC's are +/- 1 MOA from 100-600 yards based on actual live fire data collection. This is somewhat common knowledge and I would say anyone who doesn't know how to do this this needs to read more and get some better understanding.Nah. Across a bunch of different barrel lengths my close zeros are between 45-60 yards with far zeros like 190-220. That's very acceptable. Weird how you think you know where my rifles are zeroed.
Hello, are you the same user who used to post here as CrabsAndFootball (or some other combination of capitals in that handle)?BDC work so well that Trijicon had to make different versions of the TA-31 for the M4 and M16. Both shooting exact same bullet but with a 5.5" barrel length difference. The Marines bought both versions depending what they were going on.
I believe you, I really do.
Sweet. Any chance you would send that one to me for a lifelong review? I'll pay for shipping...I have one with me at the show but no mass showings. We have started sending out samples to the media. Dark Lord got his before SHOT but you won't see much feedback until after everyone gets back.
Well spottedHello, are you the same user who used to post here as CrabsAndFootball (or some other combination of capitals in that handle)?
Genuine question, and nothing implied.
The Vudu is tempting, minus the fact that the illum controls are push button. They really screwed that up.Yeah I'm not sure about $1500, at that price just pay an extra $100 and get a Vortex 1-10 or save a bit of money and get the Vudu 1-10.
Is the GLx 1-10 still happening? I haven’t heard anything about it since marsh said they weren’t happy with the prototypeExcited about this and RIDICULOUSLY excited about the GLX 1-10
And for the record, I will be choosing the Raptor BDC reticle because this will be a dedicated 1 rifle scope.
Once it’s zeroed, I don’t need my “buddy to spot my misses”,
I to am interested if this is still happeningIs the GLx 1-10 still happening? I haven’t heard anything about it since marsh said they weren’t happy with the prototype
Yes Glx 1-10 is scheduled for production. I will get ETA on Monday
Is there a release date for the gen 2 plx 1-8 ? Feb?