Night Vision New Pulsar Thermions and Axions

[wigwamitus]

As the release of these new lineups approaches, we can gather the available data in this spot for easier finding.

What attracts me the most to the Thermions (and Axions) is the 1024x768 display. If well executed, this feature could push the Therminons and Axion up to and perhaps even beyond the Trijicons, N-Vision-Optics and Trijicon Oasys ... as the display could well be the first bottleneck in image performance with current units.

What attracts me the least about the Thermions is the day scope form factor. At SHOT, we heard this form factor was adopted due to requests from European hunters. There must be more to the story than that. Hearing this makes me think that perhaps similarly, formula one cars should be changed to look like Hansom Cabs !!!

Point is, a thermal is not a day scope ... it has different parts ... and it works differently. The basic assembly of a thermal includes the two lens on front and rear ... and the microbolometer, processors and display in the center. Like the UTC-x shows a decent ergonomic design. A box in the center housing the electronics and front and rear lens assemblies on the front and rears ...

Bottomline, IMHO, we do not need thermals to look like something they are not !!!
Ok, rant over.
If I had one, I realize I would be using it at night and hence would not be seeing the shape of it ... just using it

==
What we do not have data on is the performance of these units. So we need regular people (not dealers or their pro-staffs) to gets hands on these widgets and tell and show us about their experiences !!!

We have heard that the APEX line is being discontinued and we see evidence in that the number of APEX units shown by dealers is drying up.

 

[ss go devil]

i just cant get used to looking at something that was forced to look like something its not.

 

[McCrazy]

While I'm not pleased with the design compromises of making the device look like a normal optical scope; this choice does allow users to refine the height over bore of the device easier than the old integrated mounts.

Perhaps this mounting setup will also be more consistent?

 

[mark5868]

I like the traditional look of the Thermions. With a Larue LT 845 mount I can use a Radius LRF. It's Perfect!

 

[ballistic1]

As stated in other threads here, I played with the Thermion every day at
SHOT.

It is lightweight, and small, by comparison to its predecessors.
The prototypes that i got to handle were not polished into their final
production form ( at least I surely hope not)...

Because the lefthand control knob, which is the menu function on the
Thermion, and would be side focus/ parallax on most typical day optics,
was not in good working order.. the knob felt cheap, and skipped over software
functions.. like a stripped gear would on something wore out.
I was told it was software related.

Also, the NUC functions on the prototypes were not operative, so what images
I did see were doubles/ mirrored/ halos.. unfortunately, because the screen wasnt
refreshing..


Pulsar told me when I inquired:

If the internal ( which is integral to the unit, and not user removable) was to
wear out/ not take or sustain a charge, can it be replaced.?

The first answer was no.. I asked another Rep later, he said, "probably could
disassemble the unit and replace.. but most likely no"

So the Thermion is designed to run on the cartridge battery system first, and
then switch over to the internal battery, if:

The cartridge battery expires
The cartridge battery is removed

The unit is supposed to seamlessly auto switch over without operational
interruption.. which is a nice feature.

The main tube on the Thermion houses the internal battery, and serves
as a conduit for the wiring harness betwixt the Front focal and the display, and
is the means to attach the optic to a weapon, via rings. There are no erectors or
complicated lens within the tube.. it was hollow upon inspection.

If and when Pulsar irons out the areas that were lacking in the demo displays
I saw at Shot, Im sure these will become favorable units to use.

They are wispy light in comparison to other thermals.
Moving the menu to the left side will be more favorable to righthanded
shooters, probably a deterrent for lefties though.. having to reach across
the weapon ...

As Wig stated, the displays are going to make the units excel, or they should in theory.

We shall see.. my initial impressions of the prototype/ demo units were
certainly hamstringed by the units non functional NUC, poor menu function
and being stuck indoors. I certainly will not be buying any of the first units produced
because of these criteria mentioned above.. but Im sure Pulsar will iron the
issues out and these will become nice light units with amazing images.

We shall see.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

I'm going a different route.

Instead of complaining that I don't like how it looks, I'm going to wait and see how it performs.

The main take away should be the advancement of technology and how small they made it here, as opposed to
a two pound brick.

It can look horrible and have a production name called "dog shit". If it performs I'm all in.

 

[eyeguy]

I saw where some say the new thermion are lighter. But if i look up specs it says xq50 trail is.56 kg so 1.2 lbs and that is lighter than the thermion. Are the specs i quoted wrong?

 

[wigwamitus]

Per the Pulsar website, we see

Trail 640 weight: 1.323 pounds
https://www.pulsar-nv.com/glo/products/33/thermal-imaging-riflescopes/trail

Thermion 640 weight: 1.984 pounds
https://www.pulsar-nv.com/glo/products/33/thermal-imaging-riflescopes/thermion

The Pulsar website says the Thermion is an "All-Metal" housing, whereas the Trail is plastic, so this makes sense.

 

[ballistic1]

This is quite surprising to me. The Thermion felt light to me, albeit, i did not
handle a naked unit.. as they were all attached to display stocks.

That being said, I am still surprised that it (Thermion) would not be lighter
than a Trail.

I guess they are smaller in form factor, which seemingly makes one
presume they are lightweight..

I wont be surprised if the Thermion weight listed is incorrect and
Pulsar corrects this..

 

[wigwamitus]

...
I wont be surprised if the Thermion weight listed is incorrect and
Pulsar corrects this ...

That's always possible, but I used the Pulsar website on purpose, as a "single source of truth", to minimize the odds.

 

[ballistic1]

Yes, i saw that.. no doubt in what the print says.
I will find it hard to believe though.. Im guessing it will weigh in
lighter than stated

 

[generalzip]

It probably felt light to you because in your mind you’re used to feeling an actual scope that is usually around 2-3 lbs at that size. Probably your mind playing tricks on you. 2 lbs isn’t crazy heavy but on the heavier side. That said, I have pointed out typos to pulsar sales reps and they have corrected the website so they could be wrong. I have a Axion on order they are supposed to arrive early. Seems like the perfect little scanner for driving around picking stuff up.

To me I don’t see the appeal of the thermion. I don’t care if it looks like a scope or not as long as it provides me the features I want. The trail knocked it out of the park with image quality, battery, life, weight, and price. I wish they didn’t discontinue the apex units because they were badass too.

As far as the menu, for a right handed shooter it’s better to have the controls on the right side. That way you can hold the rifle up with your left hand and mess with the menu with your free hand. It’s impossible to hold up a heavy rifle with your firing hand and mess around with the menu using your support hand unless you are on a tripod.

 

[generalzip]

Also for the guys quoting weights don’t forget that doesn’t include the weight of rings or a mount you’ll also need.

Also the shift in zero is more likely due to design not the material. The thermal expansion coefficients between reinforced glass filled polymer and aluminum are very similar.

 

[Flip#1]

Is the core of the trail 640 the same of the new up coming thermion. I noticed that the only difference is native magnification are different the obvious design changes. But what is going on with the guys of the units what have they improved on the 640 cores. Is the WiFi more robust. What’s going on?

 

[wigwamitus]

Just from comparing the specs of the Trail 640s to the Thermion 640s there is no clear indication that the core is different.

The core of the 320 units is clearly different, it is a 12 micro core. So that makes us think that one day the 12 micro core will be available in a 640 unit, but not yet. If that does ever happen, we would hope for benefits such as a lighter, smaller unit and a unit that uses less power.

The most significant improvement of the Thermions IMHO however, lies in the display. They are now showing a 1024x768 display in all the Thermions versus a 640x480 in all the Trails. An improved display could significantly improve the image. But we need to wait until real people (not dealers or pro-staff) get their hands on them and can give us real world input and video.

 

[wigwamitus]

And @generalzip good point about the mounts ... and typcial set of rings could more than make up the difference in weight between the current shown weight of the Thermions versus the Trails.

 

[Flip#1]

Just from comparing the specs of the Trail 640s to the Thermion 640s there is no clear indication that the core is different.

The core of the 320 units is clearly different, it is a 12 micro core. So that makes us think that one day the 12 micro core will be available in a 640 unit, but not yet. If that does ever happen, we would hope for benefits such as a lighter, smaller unit and a unit that uses less power.

The most significant improvement of the Thermions IMHO however, lies in the display. They are now showing a 1024x768 display in all the Thermions versus a 640x480 in all the Trails. An improved display could significantly improve the image. But we need to wait until real people (not dealers or pro-staff) get their hands on them and can give us real world input and video.

Man thanks for shedding the light. I think is a gimmick to close the gap between all the new stuff been Release. Thermals are becoming iPhones they are releasing on of two upgrades and next year another two updates. Is a big investment in our end for them to do this. I love pulsar but I won’t support them with this new release. I had the previous two models and ther was a big gap when they where release and you gained lots of improvements when you upgraded in between purchases.

 

[wigwamitus]

Here is an excellent field review of these devices by Brian Shaffer: