New reloading press, single or progressive

[freezingduck]

I have reloaded for 10 years on a Lyman Crusher II using a Lyman Gen 5 powder dispenser.

I reload for about 10 different calibers, but most of my shooting is done with 6,5x55 being in europe.

I reload about 5.000 6,5x55 a year, and i'm getting pretty tired of reloading and buying factory ammunition isnt really an option.
I used to have a Dillon 650 that I reloaded about 10.000rds of 9mm every year on, but I sold it when I started to focus on rifles only.
I shoot PRS and long range.
My reloads are usually about 1/2 moa, and I wish to keep that.

I have just bought a new house and is building a new reloading room.
I have been looking at some new presses, but I cant decide what works best for me.
I'm keeping my Crusher to perform dirty jobs and bullet pulling.

Either buy a Forster CO AX and do everything single stage?
Buy a progressive press like the Dillon 650 or the Hornady LNL AP and go progressive.
Does anyone use progressive presses for there matach ammo?
Ultimate reloader gave the Hornady a pretty good review.

Sorry for my sh**ty english.

 

[b6graham]

Tons and tons of guys use the Dillon for match ammo

 

[cleric]

Two biggest factors imo are powder charge and seating depth. Any good press should be able to get good seating. Powder charge is the biggest variable some throwers like certain types of powder more then other types.

If you want to go crazy get a Prometheus on a progressive and you have the best of both worlds. But only you can answer the question if how much precision you need.

 

[freezingduck]

How do you solve the "problem" of not being able to trim your cases between sizing and filling powder?
Is it a problem?
Having 4 rifles that uses the same load, I have always full length resized my brass.

 

[cleric]

I always prep my brass before running though press. So when I run through the press all that I do is primer, powder and seat

 

[Srikaleak]

You'll prep base in one stage with one head and then load cartridge in another stage with a different head. First head: deprime, full length size, run through mandrel, trim (with dillon trimmer or w/e else). Second head is prime, drop powder, seat bullet.

 

[Dai Bando]

Get a 550c and get set up like the 6.5 guys.

Clean
Anneal
Lube
Deprime first stage Lee universal
Size second stage
Mandrel die to set neck tension third stage

Trim on a Giraud
Tumble for twenty minutes to get lube off

Lee universal deprimer to clear pockets first stage
Prime
Powder with auto trickler fx120i
Seat bullet

Makes great ammo and I can put out 100 rounds in about 2.5 hrs not including tumbling.

 

[mdmp5]

Don’t get a progressive if you’re not gonna run it like a progressive. Doing a bunch of brass prep defeats the purpose. Get a turret press if you want to go the route of a lot of prep

 

[freezingduck]

Yes, I don't see the big point in a progressive press when I can't run it like a progressive press.
Thank you for sorting me out

 

[padom]

Lolol. Some of these comments are hilarious.

Using my 650 with a dedicated brass prep toolhead allows me to fully prep my brass (clean, anneal, deprime, bump shoulder, trim and set neck tension) in large quantities that are then stored in bins to be loaded throughout the shooting season.


Tell me, how does being able to fully prep 1000's of pieces of brass in a single session with the pull of a handle on the 650 defeat the purpose? Lol. You guys crack me up. You do that on your single stages?

I use a 550 with Area419 funnel and Fx120 Auto Trickler/Thrower setup for my precision bolt gun rounds.

 

[Dai Bando]

The Promethius recomendation is pretty funny in an expensive, lease option fax machine sort of way.

 

[mdmp5]

I do all my precision on a turret now. Used to do it on my 550, but it’s much easier for me on the turret taking measurements. Why do guys insist on tumbling to remove the lube?

 

[Dai Bando]

I don't want dirt in my dies or lube in my chambers.

You can certainly leave it on.

 

[mdmp5]

It’s easy to wipe off is all I’m getting at. An old t shirt with a bit of acetone, and it comes right off

 

[DrewC]

I basically use my single stage just for depriming nowadays. I process doing the 2 step multiple head way between my 550 and 650 like others have stated. So much faster.

 

[Dai Bando]

Running brass in a tumbler for twenty minutes while I do something else is easier and way quicker than wiping them down individualy.

 

[cleric]

The Promethius recomendation is pretty funny in an expensive, lease option fax machine sort of way.

My point is if you want a highly accurate powder thrower and progessive out put you need to spend money.


I can place a bullet and seat in the time it takes my charge master to throw powder so loading on a progressive machine would not do much for me. If I had the auto thrower it’s faster and maybe worth while. But using a standard progressive powder throw does not lend itself to accuracy at longer ranges.

 

[Srikaleak]

You have to think about it more in terms of how many times you're gonna pull the lever. There are a lot of parallels between single/turret and progressives but you are cranking that lever considerably less times with a progressive than the others.

 

[cleric]

You have to think about it more in terms of how many times you're gonna pull the lever. There are a lot of parallels between single/turret and progressives but you are cranking that lever considerably less times with a progressive than the others.

I think of it terms of time required and specification tolerances (What is my specification limits?) and cost of equipment. But if you a concerned with turret pulls that’s fine

 

[300ATT]

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. The OP stated a goal of keeping to 1/2 MOA ammo. That is definitely achievable on the Dillon 650. You can even do this with the Dillon powder measure depending on the powder that you use but many powders do not pour that well through the stock powder measure.

As stated powder throwing is the weak link of the Dillon. A simple solution that will help and is capable of producing really great ammo on the Dillon is to replace the powder measure with a funnel and use an isolated mount to hang a good benchrest powder measure (Harrel's) over it or if you can afford it a prometheus.

If you feel the need to wiegh each charge that reduces some of the advantages of the Dillon.

5,000 rounds/year is 480-ish month. Thats about 6-8 hours/month with single stage press or about 1 hour with the Dillon assuming you dont change the setup for other calibers ... If you are going to load a bunch of different calibers then definitely go CO-AX

 

[Srikaleak]

I should have specified that less pulls of the lever = less time spent reloading. If I can knock out several steps with one pull of the lever then that is a time saving step. The tolerance differences between a good single stage press and a good progressive press are getting a lot smaller too. Using a floating head die can really help with tolerances. Cost is the big difference as you can set yourself up for success with a lot less money with a single stage but then you are losing out in time. Spend good money and you can get a dillon, a giraud trimmer, a prometheus and you can load at a much faster rate while producing some REALLY accurate ammo.
There is a happy medium there for you to find but often times its a rabbit hole until you end up with what the latest and greatest and a very sad wallet.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

IF you are going to reload match rifle on the Dillon 650, powder selection and work up becomes important. You want to pick a powder that measures well (ball is best, then finer stick, coarse stick the most difficult). When choosing a charge weight, finding a velocity "flat spot" is important, because your volumetric charge variance will be greater than trickling.

I think it is unavoidable that ES and SD will increase somewhat when switching from trickling to volumetric throws, but you will save an enormous amount of time, and that can be a big deal when talking about 5000 per year. You may still achieve 1/2 MOA at 100 yards, but higher SD gets amplified at longer ranges in the form of vertical spread.

There's lots of tips and tricks to getting the best throws from the Dillon measure. Screwing die to correct depth, correct failsafe rod spring tension, micrometer bars, polishing surfaces, rubber band assisted return, hopper vibrator, other mods, etc.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/171789-dillon-powder-measure-tips-and-tricks/

 

[Bradu]

I do all my precision on a turret now. Used to do it on my 550, but it’s much easier for me on the turret taking measurements. Why do guys insist on tumbling to remove the lube?

I will resize 100-150 rounds then throw them in the tumbler while I continue to resize. I would hate to wipe them all off by hand.

 

[mdmp5]

I will resize 100-150 rounds then throw them in the tumbler while I continue to resize. I would hate to wipe them all off by hand.

I just take the loaded rounds in a towel with a little acetone and wipe the whole lot down. Takes a few seconds. I would think the tumbling would get dusty

 

[Codiekfx400]

I tumble to remove lube. Then dump all 100 cases on a large bath towel to massage the dust off of them. Then I take a pick to all the flash holes. Yep maybe I will try the acetone and rag sounds much easier.

 

[ruebarb]

For precision rifle I was using a single stage, I'm now moving to a 550C, the lack of an auto indexer will help to ensure alignment with the die and give equal results as my Rock Chucker, but way faster.
I have a 650 which I do my small/medium volume non precision loading, the 650 does not always align perfect with the indexer. I load the majority of my calibers on the 650.
I also have a 1050 with an Ammobot drive for my bulk ammo, 9mm, 556, 45acp, 308

 

[OzzyO20]

I'm quite new, but for what it's worth I really like my Co-Ax . I spent some time in the evening this week setting dies up and experimenting. I took my FL bushing die in and out multiple times and the results are extremely consistent and repeatable between dies. I'm sure there is a Honeymoon phase like with anything else, but I don't see a need to go away from the Co-Ax for what I'm doing. Sure it would be nice to have a few functions performed with every stroke, but I feel like a single stage makes you more aware of each stage of the process.

 

[Sheldon N]

I'm using the Dillon 550 for all my PRS and precision bolt gun ammo. It's much faster than a turret press or a single stage press.

As mentioned above, one toolhead does brass prep (deprime die, FL sizing die, expander mandrel die), then the brass is tumbled clean and trimmed (if needed) and stored as "ready to load" brass. Then a second toolhead does loading where I can prime, powder (either via powder thrower or via precision charges with a funnel), and bullet seat.

A progressive like the Dillon is about twice as fast as a turret or single stage press simply by how the brass is loaded and ejected from the shell plate, even if you are only using one die. Priming at the same time as powder and bullet seating also minimizes how many times you have to handle the brass.

For reference, it takes me about 8 minutes to deprime/size/mandrel 100 pieces of brass and throw them back in the tumbler. When loading ammo, it takes me 30-40 minutes to prime, precision weigh powder charges, and seat bullets on 100 pieces of brass. If I am loading with the powder thrower like a progressive I can load 300-400 rounds of 223 in an hour.

 

[CUBUFF89]

I just take the loaded rounds in a towel with a little acetone and wipe the whole lot down. Takes a few seconds. I would think the tumbling would get dusty

Really stupid question about your technique: Are you still wiping each round individually with the towel?

A towel to wipe off lube is my current method but I'm not using the acetone. The tendons on the backs of my hands are pretty tired after wiping 100 cases well enough to where I'm satisfied the lube is wiped off.

I'm always looking for ways to make the reloading process faster and easier.

For high volume like the 556 I tumble to remove lube and then use an old bath towel because I too am concerned about running dusty cases into a die.

 

[mdmp5]

Really stupid question about your technique: Are you still wiping each round individually with the towel?

A towel to wipe off lube is my current method but I'm not using the acetone. The tendons on the backs of my hands are pretty tired after wiping 100 cases well enough to where I'm satisfied the lube is wiped off.

I'm always looking for ways to make the reloading process faster and easier.

For high volume like the 556 I tumble to remove lube and then use an old bath towel because I too am concerned about running dusty cases into a die.

Nah not individually. Put them on the floor in a towel or t shirt, little squirt of acetone, rub them all down. Just to degrease them. You don’t need them to be absolutely spotless, just getting the greasy off

 

[CUBUFF89]

Thanks. Geez, I am so anal about some of this stuff. I wiped 'em till they were squeaky. What a pain!

 

[DrewC]

I just throw brass back in walnut or whatever and tumble them for a bit to get the lube off. Easy peasy.

 

[ruebarb]

I just throw brass back in walnut or whatever and tumble them for a bit to get the lube off. Easy peasy.

I do the same thing. Funny how many want to skip this step, when a machine can do all the work.

 

[Gilly]

I spent a good 8-10 years with a single stage press as my only setup and never shot as much as I wanted because it was so time consuming but loved single digit SD and good accuracy. I finally stepped up to a Dillon 650 this winter after seeing one in action and my buddy was outshooting me with ammo loaded on one. Never looking back for my short action loads still getting single digit SD and just as good of accuracy. Now I spend more time shooting less time loading. Never realized that single stage was so time consuming but you handle case so many times vs. one maybe twice on Dillon.

I use A&d for throwing stick powders but after trying a ball powder and using dillons powder throw I can load 100 rounds start to finish in the time I used to prime 100 and shooting very well.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have two Dillons and never use them because all I load now is precision ammo and I never got the same results with them as I do single stages. Since I moved 3 years ago I haven't even bolted them back to the bench, they're still in boxes. Should probably just sell them.

I used to just run a couple T-7's for everything with excellent results. Last year I picked up a Co-Ax and I'm making the straightest ammo I've ever made. My runout on rounds with fired brass is basically zero whereas the T-7 gives me about .001-.0015" which is still great but I strive for perfection. I do almost all of my loading on the Co-Ax now, I load some AR stuff on a T-7 but mostly use it for depriming since it's ultra fast with the inline fabrication case ejector system.

 

[padom]

Out of the box Dillon makes good ammo. A few simple mods and they make ammo as straight as my Co-Ax. I did runout tests, accuracy tests, and SD/ES tests making identical rounds on my Co-Ax and Dillon.

I have all Whidden Floating Die toolheads with their clamp kit on my Dillon 550c and my Dillon XL650. Forster Ultra Micrometer seating dies, 21st Century TiN mandrels and either Forster FL Sizing dies honed or Redding Neck sizing dies depending on if Im just setting neck tension or bumping shoulder. Co-Ax is gone. 550c is so much faster. Im using a Dillon Powder die on all my precision rifle Whidden loading toolheads with Area419 funnel to pour charges from my FX120i.

On my XL650 I run 8208XBR on polished powder hoppers which throwing within .1g every time. What people dont understand is proper load development is key. If you have a proper OCW in the center of a node .1g does NOTHING downrange. But if you didnt do proper load work up and your on the edge of a node then yes, that .1g can push you out of the node and cause havoc downrange.

 

[Dai Bando]

If I didn't shoot a whole bunch, I'd probably reload on a Co-ax. Forster makes great stuff.

.001" or less run out on my Dillons but that took some doing. Had to buy the right dies, set them up properly and use good components.

 

[Srikaleak]

Out of the box Dillon makes good ammo. A few simple mods and they make ammo as straight as my Co-Ax. I did runout tests, accuracy tests, and SD/ES tests making identical rounds on my Co-Ax and Dillon.

I have all Whidden Floating Die toolheads with their clamp kit on my Dillon 550c and my Dillon XL650. Forster Ultra Micrometer seating dies, 21st Century TiN mandrels and either Forster FL Sizing dies honed or Redding Neck sizing dies depending on if Im just setting neck tension or bumping shoulder. Co-Ax is gone. 550c is so much faster. Im using a Dillon Powder die on all my precision rifle Whidden loading toolheads with Area419 funnel to pour charges from my FX120i.

On my XL650 I run 8208XBR on polished powder hoppers which throwing within .1g every time. What people dont understand is proper load development is key. If you have a proper OCW in the center of a node .1g does NOTHING downrange. But if you didnt do proper load work up and your on the edge of a node then yes, that .1g can push you out of the node and cause havoc downrange.

That's a super clean shop, I am super jelly. I don't have the space for that but I want something similar ?

 

[MLS2GO]

Getting geared up to load 6.5 CM on a Dillon 550. I have loaded megatons of pistol loads on the Dillon, but no rifle on it until now. 1st station de prime and FL size and prime, 2nd powder throw with Dillon Powder Measure, 3rd Dillon Powder Check System, 4th seating die. Which dies do you recommend I buy? Paying more for better results is acceptable. I would like to have 1/2 to 3/4 quarter MOA. Thanks.

 

[padom]

Getting geared up to load 6.5 CM on a Dillon 550. I have loaded megatons of pistol loads on the Dillon, but no rifle on it until now. 1st station de prime and FL size and prime, 2nd powder throw with Dillon Powder Measure, 3rd Dillon Powder Check System, 4th seating die. Which dies do you recommend I buy? Paying more for better results is acceptable. I would like to have 1/2 to 3/4 quarter MOA. Thanks.

Check the reloading section there is already a thread going on right now covering EVERYTHING about precision reloading on a Dillon 550 and what dies to use

 

[MLS2GO]

Thank you! I will go there.