New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

D

dbochoa

Private
Minuteman
Dec 2, 2012
7
0
62
#1
Hi all - I am new to the Forum and new to long range shooting. I cannot make up my mind whether I want a Rem 700 5R .308 24-in barrel or 300 win mag 26 in barrel. I want to become proficient at long range shooting 800-1000 yards, and I don't want to regret my decision. I understand that .308 ammo is more affordable and easier to shoot but I also know that 300 win mag has much better ballistics at this distance. I am hoping that this highly accurate gun and a quality scope will help make up for my inexperience. Here are my questions:
1. Will I regret not getting the 300 win mag later as I get better is is a .308 good enough?
2. What is the minimum recommended scope power for 1000 yards?
3. Suggestions between Leupold, NightForce, Weiss, Trijicon? Is is safe to buy a used scope online?
4. MOA or MIL dot? I'm leaning toward MOW due to simple 1 inch for every 100 yards conversion.
5. If I get the 300 win mag should I thread the barrel and get a muzzle brake?
6. Any master gunsmiths in so cal that could properly thread the 5R stainless barrel if needed?
Thanks in advance for your help! Don
 
#2
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

1. Buy the .308, you don't want to practice with a 300 win mag.
2. 10x for 1k yards
3. Nightforce, S&B, Premier, Zeiss Hensoldt / the SWFA 5-20x50 is a good value.
4. Whichever you prefer, I like Mil-dots and they seem to have better reticles available.
5. I'd get the .308
6. Phoenix Custom Rifles if you want to ship it, there's probably some available in socal but i'm not sure whom.
 
#3
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

1. Will I regret not getting the 300 win mag later as I get better is is a .308 good enough?

I picked a 300 win mag as my first gun, but I regretted it and wished I went with a .308. Yes, the 300 win mag has better ballistics, but you'll learn more off of a .308. I think you'll become better at reading wind as well. Shooting 175gr .308 ammunition with the 5r should get you to 1k yards no problem.

2. What is the minimum recommended scope power for 1000 yards?

I'd say 10x. I run a NF 3.5-15x on my 300 win mag and I'd run the same on my .308

3. Suggestions between Leupold, NightForce, Weiss, Trijicon? Is is safe to buy a used scope online?

I had a Mk 4 and sold it for a NXS. I've fallen in love with NF and I currently run 2 of them. I believe Trijicon has significantly less elevation travel than the Leupold and the NF, which is important to get to 1k. Yes, it is safe as long as you know what to look for and where you buy it from.

4. MOA or MIL dot? I'm leaning toward MOW due to simple 1 inch for every 100 yards conversion.

If you don't have experience with one, either will do just fine and learn it. 1" at 100 is fine for close, but MOA is an angular measurement, not a linear. You will be able to understand mils easier than you think and I'd pick what the rest of your group is shooting with.

5. If I get the 300 win mag should I thread the barrel and get a muzzle brake?

It could be a smart move. My 300 win mag with no muzzle brake has more perceived recoil than my .338 (which has a muzzle brake). Again, not completely necessary, but you may want this feature because you don't want to develop a flinch either.

6. Any master gunsmiths in so cal that could properly thread the 5R stainless barrel if needed?

I'm in SoCal, but I haven't used a 'smith in the area yet.

Keith
 
#5
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Not a lot to add to what has already been mentioned but...I also would suggest starting out with the 308 and to point out that Remington does offer both versions (308 and 300 WM) with threaded barrels.
 
#7
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

All, thanks for the responses. They are very helpful. Not familiar with the term - what is a 6.5CM?

Regards,
 
#8
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Thanks for the input. Still waiting on clarification on what 6.5CM is, but based on your feedback I am now leaning toward a Rem 700 R5 with a 24 inch threaded barrel. Still trying to figure out the best Scope for the money. Any suggestions on the type of reticle for a new shooter?
 
#12
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

If you get the 308 Win 5R with a 24" barrel, it will not be threaded; only the 20" is threaded (I believe 5/8X24, but you'll want to check). If you plan on shooting prone, perhaps a Surefire brake would be nice; otherwise, a Vais brake is nice too. If you decide to go with a 24" barrel, Kampfeld Custom does a very nice job on his in-house brakes (but he's in Michigan); perhaps you'll want to go with one of his tactical bolt knobs and have the trigger tuned at the same time. I believe Accurate Ordinance is in So Cal; they can

I bought the 5R as my first rifle and then moved to a 300 Win a few months later. A 300 Win is fun to shoot, provided it has a heavy barrel and a good muzzle brake; otherwise it's punishing. Also, it's a lot more expensive, even if you reload. It's a barrel burner too and the belted cases don't last nearly as long as good Lapua brass you can get for a 308.

You can definitely get a good deal on a scope on this forum, and yes it is "safe." I would look at getting a Bushnell HDMR 3-21 power or a SWFA SS HD 5-20. Look at paying about $1300, plus another $250 for a good scope base and rings. A Vortex Razor is nice too, but costs a little bit more. If you have a FFP scope, like both of those, the whole MOA thing isn't needed. Just hold over how many mils you are from your POI on the x/y plane and adjust accordingly; no math or conversions needed.
 
#13
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

LCR JGB - Thanks for the detailed reply.

OK - I have settled on a Rem 700 5R .308 24-in barrel. I was thinking about a SWFA 20x fixed scope. It is much more affordable (about $250), but is there a significant downside to this versus a 5x20 adjustable scope? Also, you mentioned Lapua rounds. Are you saying there is a Lapua version of a .308 round that has better balistics than a standard .308 round? Going to the Del Mar Gun Show next weekend and plan on picking up some ammo. Thanks in advance.
 
#14
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

I would not recommend a fixed 20x scope. You go shoot that on a hot summer day, and mirage will wreak havoc.
 
#16
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Thanks Keith et al. From what I have seen I like the NightForce (NF) NXS series over Leupold, Weiss, and Trijicon, but that is just based on what I have read and after looking through a few scopes at gun stores. NF optics seemed to be a step above the rest. Do you have any suggestions for a newbie on which type of NF reticle to use? I am looking for simple and easy to learn but there are a lot of choices: MLR, MOAR, Mil Dot, NP-R2. Also, what is the diff between the 5.5 - 22 x 56 and the 5.5 - 22 x 50? More light collected on the 56?
 
#17
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Sounds like you may have already made a decision on this, but if this will be your first or only rifle for long range shooting, I'd get the .308. Reason is that ammo is cheaper (whether you reload or not) and it's just easier and more comfortable to shoot for longer periods of time. I've got a .300 mag on the way, and you can't argue with its ballistics. but I wouldn't want that to be my only rifle.
 
#18
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

I had one in .308 and really liked it. But as soon as I took the loads up in terms of bullet weight and charge I felt the need to replace the thin, hard pad on the buttstock with a grind-to-fit. It makes me wonder what one is like to shoot in 300 Win Mag for more than a few rounds. You'll learn a lot by just shooting a .308 as much as you can at a variety of distances.

Whatever scope you get, match the turrets and reticle. It's not about ranging, just being able to correct shots without a lot of conversion. E.g. you see from the reticle your point of impact was off 1.3 mils you just dial that in. On an FFP (first focal plane scope that will apply at any magnification). On an SFP scope only at its ranging power (usually max. mag).
 
#21
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 308 falls out of the sky at 657 yards so I'd go with the 300 WinMag and a Counter Sniper for a scope. Its what I have </div></div> 50 BMG + NcStar
 
#22
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

I have a 5R with a 24" barrel in .308 and paired it with a US Optics 3.2-17 MIL/MIL and it has been an amazing setup thus far. I think you'll be happy with the 5R in .308.
 
#23
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Go 308 with a 11.5" twist and you'll shoot 1K all day without issue. You could go with a 10" twist and shoot some heavier bullets...but an 11.5 will stabilize the 175grn SMK's fine

300mag is just too punishing (less breaked) and a waste of powder.

Drop isn't an issue- get an MOA base and learn to range estimate.

the 6.5CM is an awesome round but you won't easily find ammunition for it at your local shop...about the only negative issue with that round.

Scope? I like VP scopes- 6-20 or 24 is what I tend to get. But, if all I was using the rifle for was 1K shooting, 10-16x fixed,
 
#24
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dbochoa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LCR JGB - Thanks for the detailed reply.

OK - I have settled on a Rem 700 5R .308 24-in barrel. I was thinking about a SWFA 20x fixed scope. It is much more affordable (about $250), but is there a significant downside to this versus a 5x20 adjustable scope? Also, you mentioned Lapua rounds. Are you saying there is a Lapua version of a .308 round that has better balistics than a standard .308 round? Going to the Del Mar Gun Show next weekend and plan on picking up some ammo. Thanks in advance.</div></div>

Remember, if you go with the 24" barrel, a gunsmith will need to thread the barrel for you if you want to use a muzzle brake. Although a muzzle brake on a .308 isn't essential, what the brake does is allow you to observe the impact downrange and quickly make followup shots. If cost is an issue, the 20" should still get you out pretty far and will already come pre-threaded; however, the 24" will have a smidgen more speed.

I wouldn't go right for a muzzle brake as your first upgrade. Consider getting a Timney trigger. If you order direct from the manufacturer they'll set the pull weight to your choice. Then go for a muzzle brake, bolt knob, bottom metal, finishing etc.

What I meant is that if you reload you can use Lapua brass in .308. Lapua brass is stronger and better made but costs a bit more. You can buy 155gr Lapua Scenars in Lapua brass, but they're pricey. You don't even get the option of using this type of brass with 300 WM. If you plan on buying factory ammo, .308 ammo is much cheaper than .300 WM and has the best selection (BHA and FGMM work great in every rifle).

A problem that many new shooters has, and I am new enough to remember how I was, is that they are reluctant to spend nearly as much or even a tad more on the scope than on the rifle. Think of it this way:
- Scopes tend to hold their resale value pretty well, especially if they are range or safe queens, if you decide shooting isn't for you later on
- If you decide to upgrade to a new rifle later, you can always keep your optics
- Good optics play an important role in developing your skill. You can hit what you can't see. Clear, high quality glass that tracks reliably and is ruggedized to withstand the recoil forces of your rifle is just as important as having an accurate barreled action (like the kind that comes on your 5R)

If you are willing to spend $1K+ on a rifle, my opinion is that you should consider spending the same amount on the scope and mounting system.

Nightforce scopes are good, but remember that you will not get one in FFP without spending >$2K+. If I was you I would consider the following scopes, in this order:
- Vortex Razor HD, EBR2B with 10mil turrets
- Bushnell HDMR (3-21)
- SWFA SS HD (5-20)

The Razor uses 35mm rings, the Bushnell uses 34mm rings, and the SWFA uses 30mm rings. Seekins, Vortex, Nightforce, Aadamount, and Badger rings are all good quality. So are Badger, NF, and Seekins bases.
 
#25
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

The 20" will get to to 1K, I have been shooting my 243 with 105s and 87's more often than my 5R, but the Weaver Tactical scope moa/moa, is well worth the $730, and then some. I have Leupy's Nikon, Zeiss, and I think the Weaver looks just as good, and is in ffp. Get a 20 moa base and good rings, get the 20" 308, buy a few boxes of 168SMKs and hit the range. I'm looking to trade my Mk18 upper right now for some glass, it's very important. Then again the 24" does have a bit more speed, but mine is only 50fps slower than my buds 24". Dunno why, maybe time to clean again, lol
 
#26
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

I was in your shoes a few months ago. After doing a lot of research and ended up going .300WM for bolt action. I have a .308 M25 built by Smith Enterprises with a 22" barrel and USO SN3 scope and I don't like stretching it past 800 yds. I know its not a bolt action, but I wanted a .300WM for that. I decided .308 for a good semi auto DM rifle and .300WM for a long range bolt action out to 1000 yds. Just fwiw
 
#28
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Get 308 and for the money I would go with a Vortex PST 6-24 scope. Get as much magnification as you can afford in my opinion. If you can afford it, go with NF NXS 5.5-22 or 8-32. You can always turn the power down but you cant got more than the scope has. Good luck and nice rifle choice in my opinion.
 
#29
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

wow... you've got some good info here and some advice that is complete shit...FYI on this site, if someone mentions NCStar or counter sniper anything .. they are fucking with you!
first LR rifle.
308 for sure. sounds like you don't reload. you can find good ammo reasonable!... when you can hit clays at 600 all day long and 12X12 plates at 1000 75% of the time and you are damn close the other 25% you are ready for a 300WM or 338 LM... get the 24 in barrel pull it out thread it and put a break on it as well... you will be able to see your own trace and splash. kinda handy if you are shootin by youself.

Scope. stay away from the fixed super sniper scopes. I have one and they are just what they are.. decent but not great..I bought mine when thats all they offered! I have had targets that I flat could not see!.. the Vortex is money well spent! and NF are fuckin awesome! I like Badger rings and i have an Aadmount on my LR 308 really like it!

Good luck have fun!
 
#30
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

What is your shooting experience? Can you shoot .5" groups on a regular basis?

Paying for a highly accurate rifle will not get you into long range any easier. Given, you must have good equipment, but don't expect the rifle to do all of the work. The most important part of any rifle is the nut behind the butt...aka the shooter.

If you aren't an avid shooter, I would suggest staying away from the 300wm unless you are going to brake it. If you don't reload, I would run like hell from the 300wm. It'll cost you too much to shoot to get proficient. Figure a LR class that requires 200rds of ammo. Price that out for both calibers and that should narrow it down real fast.

My .02$ and worth more than you paid for it.
 
#31
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Thanks to all for some outstanding feedback. Rem 700 5R in .308 is definitely the rifle. Now its between a Night Force NXS 5.5 - 22 or a Vortex PST 6 - 24 x 50. Any suggestions on reticles and eases of use would be welcome - MOA or MIL???? Is the NF worth 2x the price?
 
#32
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

Vortex is hard to beat for the price. I've used my 4-16 out to 800+yds with great sucess. That said, if money isn't an object NF has what I and many perceive as greater clarity and less color distortion. I don't believe it's worth the price difference, but I'm shooting at targets that don't shoot back. A good compromise between vortex and NF would be the Bushnell 3.5-21 with G2DMR reticle. It also fits between the two price points.

Mil/Mil is easiest for me to use and many would argue it's the best route for a new shooter. The most important thing is matching reticle/turrets (moa/moa or (mil/mil).

Reticles: look at as many as possible and choose what works for you. A lot of ppl like the NPR reticles, I don't. I like the MLR and EBR reticles.

Next decide if you want/need first or second focal plane. Most NF's are second.

Good luck and welcome to your latest addiction
 
#33
Re: New Rem 700 w/5R barrel - .308 or 300 win mag?

I have a few nightforce's, vortex's and a couple SWFA's new 5-20 SS. I like all of them but the features of the SWFA 5-20 and its value are what I recommend.
 
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