Hello, I am new to this forum and have a few questions. First off I have been selected to possibly become one of my departments snipers. I have been looking into several rifles for the past weeks and am in need of some advice. The selections I have narrowed it down to are as follows: (1) An Accuracy International AE model with 20" threaded barrell, Price is about $3200.00 shipped. (2) A custom built rifle where I would be piecing together a AICS short action stock, Surgeon short action repeater mated to a fluted 20" 1:12 hart barrel, cost is around $2600.00 before gunsmith charges. I expect the build to be over 3k before optics. My question is to everyone whom are experienced with these manufacturers is what is my best bang for the buck. Ive narrowed it this far and need a little help with the final decision. Catch to this promotion is the money comes from my pocket. Most of you guys know how it is starting out so any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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New Rifle Help!
- Thread starter Wolfsig139
- Start date
Re: New Rifle Help!
I am personal a AE fan the shoot right out of the box. I do not have experience with the other but I know ae shoot. myself and two of my shooting buddys have them and again all came out of the box shooting sub .5 moa with factory ammo.
I am personal a AE fan the shoot right out of the box. I do not have experience with the other but I know ae shoot. myself and two of my shooting buddys have them and again all came out of the box shooting sub .5 moa with factory ammo.
Re: New Rifle Help!
This should get some interesting replies.
I don't know a damn thing about duty snipers, but I'm curious about one aspect you mentioned...
You said "possibly" become one of the dept.'s. snipers.
Does that mean you (and anyone else being considered) needs to make the investment for the hardware from their own pocket, and then compete/qualify for the position(s) with that weapon?
Just sayin' I'd think that's a lot of money for most LEO's to put out of pocket with no assurance of getting the position? Guess if it doesn't pan out, you'll still have one hell of a rifle...
And.. I think Force's question above is entirely relevant...you're asking for advice, so offer the most information you can if you want these guys "in the know" to help ya.
Best of luck with it.
This should get some interesting replies.
I don't know a damn thing about duty snipers, but I'm curious about one aspect you mentioned...
You said "possibly" become one of the dept.'s. snipers.
Does that mean you (and anyone else being considered) needs to make the investment for the hardware from their own pocket, and then compete/qualify for the position(s) with that weapon?
Just sayin' I'd think that's a lot of money for most LEO's to put out of pocket with no assurance of getting the position? Guess if it doesn't pan out, you'll still have one hell of a rifle...
And.. I think Force's question above is entirely relevant...you're asking for advice, so offer the most information you can if you want these guys "in the know" to help ya.
Best of luck with it.
Re: New Rifle Help!
First of all, welcome!
A lot boils down to personal preference. There isn't anything wrong with either way you go here. Both rifles should be more than adequate for your likely requirements.
That isn't much help to you probably but your question is kind of like, "Hey guys, which is better - Ford or Chevy?" Know what I mean? You might squeeze a little more accuracy out of something rolled together by a 'smith with a quality barrel. But honestly, the reality is that most LE engagement distances won't really occur at very long distances. Thus, most factory guns will be up to the challenge.
Don't get me wrong, you can't beat having the BEST potential accuracy in any application, especially .mil and LE where human lives are in the balance. So, I am not trying to talk you out of a custom build.
You might want to consider twist rate if you ever want to use subsonic loads. That 1:12 is not likely to be ideal for that application.
Best of luck to you and, again, welcome to the board.
First of all, welcome!
A lot boils down to personal preference. There isn't anything wrong with either way you go here. Both rifles should be more than adequate for your likely requirements.
That isn't much help to you probably but your question is kind of like, "Hey guys, which is better - Ford or Chevy?" Know what I mean? You might squeeze a little more accuracy out of something rolled together by a 'smith with a quality barrel. But honestly, the reality is that most LE engagement distances won't really occur at very long distances. Thus, most factory guns will be up to the challenge.
Don't get me wrong, you can't beat having the BEST potential accuracy in any application, especially .mil and LE where human lives are in the balance. So, I am not trying to talk you out of a custom build.
You might want to consider twist rate if you ever want to use subsonic loads. That 1:12 is not likely to be ideal for that application.
Best of luck to you and, again, welcome to the board.
Re: New Rifle Help!
Well I guess I will jump in here and say the same thing that everyone else is going to say. You cant go wrong with either choice, you have narrowed it down to a gun that shoots great right out of the box or a gun that should shoot great after it is assembled properly. Are you under a time crunch? The AE might be the better option if that is the case. I guess we need more info from you.
mike
Well I guess I will jump in here and say the same thing that everyone else is going to say. You cant go wrong with either choice, you have narrowed it down to a gun that shoots great right out of the box or a gun that should shoot great after it is assembled properly. Are you under a time crunch? The AE might be the better option if that is the case. I guess we need more info from you.
mike
Re: New Rifle Help!
Now it almost sounds to me thet you are married and trying to justify to the wife that you need a custom rifle with the tax money (ya`ll are getting back)for a possible promotion at work!I like the way you think!
But what I would think about is where you will be shooting from?Are you going to be using a suppressor?Where and how far are you going to be toting this jewel?How far is the farthest shot you might have to take?How common does the wind blow and how fast on average?And the most important thing especially in your case,Which combination do you have the most comfort and faith in?I think if you sit and think about these questions you will come up with something.In your line of work there is no fouling shot so be sure you know where thr first shot is going to be.Good luck and let us know.
Now it almost sounds to me thet you are married and trying to justify to the wife that you need a custom rifle with the tax money (ya`ll are getting back)for a possible promotion at work!I like the way you think!
But what I would think about is where you will be shooting from?Are you going to be using a suppressor?Where and how far are you going to be toting this jewel?How far is the farthest shot you might have to take?How common does the wind blow and how fast on average?And the most important thing especially in your case,Which combination do you have the most comfort and faith in?I think if you sit and think about these questions you will come up with something.In your line of work there is no fouling shot so be sure you know where thr first shot is going to be.Good luck and let us know.Re: New Rifle Help!
Kind of a real sacrafice on your part. Dosen't sound like much of a promotion if you have to spend the money for the rifle. With optics, rings, and base, that thing will be $5000 in a hurry.
I really don't have an opinion on either rifle--however I am suprised that you have to purchase it yourself.
Kind of a real sacrafice on your part. Dosen't sound like much of a promotion if you have to spend the money for the rifle. With optics, rings, and base, that thing will be $5000 in a hurry.
I really don't have an opinion on either rifle--however I am suprised that you have to purchase it yourself.
Re: New Rifle Help!
ok, i gotta ask? what does the wind have to do with either rifle choice? If hes going 20in barrel regardless, how is the wind in his area an important question? Also furthest shot he is going to be taking? We are talking about a police sniper here, their not going to let him take a very long shot, certainly nothing that either 20in barrel couldn't handle. I would figure he is picking the the same caliber in either weapon. I'm not trying to be difficult but maybe I'm missing something here.
mike
ok, i gotta ask? what does the wind have to do with either rifle choice? If hes going 20in barrel regardless, how is the wind in his area an important question? Also furthest shot he is going to be taking? We are talking about a police sniper here, their not going to let him take a very long shot, certainly nothing that either 20in barrel couldn't handle. I would figure he is picking the the same caliber in either weapon. I'm not trying to be difficult but maybe I'm missing something here.
mike
Re: New Rifle Help!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mbandy13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, i gotta ask? what does the wind have to do with either rifle choice? If hes going 20in barrel regardless, how is the wind in his area an important question? Also furthest shot he is going to be taking? We are talking about a police sniper here, their not going to let him take a very long shot, certainly nothing that either 20in barrel couldn't handle. I would figure he is picking the the same caliber in either weapon. I'm not trying to be difficult but maybe I'm missing something here.
mike </div></div>
Let`s say you are in a hostage situation and somebody is holding a gun to your head standing from behind just like the targets.And the LE sniper gets the go ahead and he is across 4 lanes plus parking on both sides and sidewalks.And he is in the 3rd floor of the building with the window slid open and rifle rested on a lamp table.The street is lined both sides with tall buildings except at the end because there is the ocean.And the wind is blowing from the ocean gusting up to 40mph because there is a storm blowing in and the police is wanting this over before the weather turns worse.There is no flags or trees to judge wind.Would you rather this guy be shooting a 223 or a 308?You know I think I just wrote a good movie!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mbandy13</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, i gotta ask? what does the wind have to do with either rifle choice? If hes going 20in barrel regardless, how is the wind in his area an important question? Also furthest shot he is going to be taking? We are talking about a police sniper here, their not going to let him take a very long shot, certainly nothing that either 20in barrel couldn't handle. I would figure he is picking the the same caliber in either weapon. I'm not trying to be difficult but maybe I'm missing something here.
mike </div></div>
Let`s say you are in a hostage situation and somebody is holding a gun to your head standing from behind just like the targets.And the LE sniper gets the go ahead and he is across 4 lanes plus parking on both sides and sidewalks.And he is in the 3rd floor of the building with the window slid open and rifle rested on a lamp table.The street is lined both sides with tall buildings except at the end because there is the ocean.And the wind is blowing from the ocean gusting up to 40mph because there is a storm blowing in and the police is wanting this over before the weather turns worse.There is no flags or trees to judge wind.Would you rather this guy be shooting a 223 or a 308?You know I think I just wrote a good movie!
Re: New Rifle Help!
And just for poops and giggles.A 223 with 50gr VMAX out of a 20in tube mv is 3214fps at 100yds with 40mph cross winds 50* and 100% humidity drifts 4.65in.And I didn`t have a 308 in my data but I did a 300WM with a 180gr at 3103fps in same conditions 2.11in of drift.Now if he is pulling dead on the nose and your head is on the wind drift side it makes alot of difference.Especially when I just measured the wifes sunglasses and from hinge to hinge measures 5.25in.
And just for poops and giggles.A 223 with 50gr VMAX out of a 20in tube mv is 3214fps at 100yds with 40mph cross winds 50* and 100% humidity drifts 4.65in.And I didn`t have a 308 in my data but I did a 300WM with a 180gr at 3103fps in same conditions 2.11in of drift.Now if he is pulling dead on the nose and your head is on the wind drift side it makes alot of difference.Especially when I just measured the wifes sunglasses and from hinge to hinge measures 5.25in.
Re: New Rifle Help!
Ok, excellent but he didnt ask your advice on what caliber to choose, he asked your advice on which weapon system. Since Im pretty sure the AE only comes in 308, he has probably chosen a 308. So again, all things being equal a 168FGMM fired from a 20in AE barrel or a 168FGMM fired from a 20in Hart should basiclly have the same wind drift right? So how is this a relevant question for which weapon system to choose?
Ok, excellent but he didnt ask your advice on what caliber to choose, he asked your advice on which weapon system. Since Im pretty sure the AE only comes in 308, he has probably chosen a 308. So again, all things being equal a 168FGMM fired from a 20in AE barrel or a 168FGMM fired from a 20in Hart should basiclly have the same wind drift right? So how is this a relevant question for which weapon system to choose?
Re: New Rifle Help!
Either rifle would be great.I would pick the one you feel more comfortable with.
Either rifle would be great.I would pick the one you feel more comfortable with.
Re: New Rifle Help!
Ok,for those that need the info the distance I might have to shoot would be relevant to the situation. My area is quite large with mountains separating the urban jungle from the residential. Honestly being in LE I understand most of our shots are taken within 300 yards. That being said I want precision because not only is someones life in my hands, my career is on the line with each shot I may have to take. I stated the promotion was not guaranteed due to the fact I must still pass sniper schools etc.. to become certified. I do plan on shooting .308 caliber. Also I have never built a custom rifle and honestly am a bit scared to spend the cash and the rifle not be consistant. My quam with the AE is I am unfamiliar with this company and are curious if these rifles have been cheapened from the AW model to make it affordable. No offense to anyone that owns these rifles I am just trying to weigh all the variables.
Ok,for those that need the info the distance I might have to shoot would be relevant to the situation. My area is quite large with mountains separating the urban jungle from the residential. Honestly being in LE I understand most of our shots are taken within 300 yards. That being said I want precision because not only is someones life in my hands, my career is on the line with each shot I may have to take. I stated the promotion was not guaranteed due to the fact I must still pass sniper schools etc.. to become certified. I do plan on shooting .308 caliber. Also I have never built a custom rifle and honestly am a bit scared to spend the cash and the rifle not be consistant. My quam with the AE is I am unfamiliar with this company and are curious if these rifles have been cheapened from the AW model to make it affordable. No offense to anyone that owns these rifles I am just trying to weigh all the variables.
Re: New Rifle Help!
If the money is remotely the same between a custom or the factory gun you are looking at.I would go custom,just so you can get every option you want.But if you wanted to save you could get a M700 rifle or action and get it trued and I think if the Smith does their part it will do what you need as well.There are a lot of different routes you can go here.Take the schools and learn all you can whether you get the position or not the knowledge will be usefull.Good luck and let us know what you choose and why.
If the money is remotely the same between a custom or the factory gun you are looking at.I would go custom,just so you can get every option you want.But if you wanted to save you could get a M700 rifle or action and get it trued and I think if the Smith does their part it will do what you need as well.There are a lot of different routes you can go here.Take the schools and learn all you can whether you get the position or not the knowledge will be usefull.Good luck and let us know what you choose and why.
Re: New Rifle Help!
If I were you, I would get in touch with a guy named "LoneWolfUSMC" he is a former marine snipe and is currently a law enforcement sniper. This is a guy that knows his shit and could probably give you some good advice.
If I were you, I would get in touch with a guy named "LoneWolfUSMC" he is a former marine snipe and is currently a law enforcement sniper. This is a guy that knows his shit and could probably give you some good advice.
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