Rifle Scopes New S&B 10-60x

[JER6.5]

Re read my post.
Should add that I find the 6-36 to be a very good scope, and by comparing the two the 10-60 performs well!

Also, the M1FL reticle is one of the reasons i chose to get one, having used both P5FL and the LRR-MIL i find this reticle to check alot of the boxes. Best of both worlds.
Schmidt really needs to add this reticle to the rest of the High Power/Performance lineup.

 

[wooferocau]

Also....no FOV restrictions on the Aus 10-60

 

[JER6.5]

Also....no FOV restrictions on the Aus 10-60

Same here, EU spec scopes, no limiter

 

[wooferocau]

Picked up 2 of these today..
initial impressions....loving them !!! Optically ...the 10-60 is a 6-36 on steroids.. Same superb detail and sharpness, nearly identical FOV.

Using the top end ( 50-60x) is amazing...very little darkening and focus is super sharp!
Looking at a distance of 1000mtrs on 60x at a cross arm on a power poll i can make out all the fine detail on the insulator!!

Super impressed..

 

[JER6.5]

Picked up 2 of these today..
initial impressions....loving them !!! Optically ...the 10-60 is a 6-36 on steroids.. Same superb detail and sharpness, nearly identical FOV.

Using the top end ( 50-60x) is amazing...very little darkening and focus is super sharp!
Looking at a distance of 1000mtrs on 60x at a cross arm on a power poll i can make out all the fine detail on the insulator!!

Super impressed..

Good to hear that you have the same impression as me, I like it more and more every time i mess with it.

Schmidt has done alot right with the newer models!

 

[wooferocau]

Good to hear that you have the same impression as me, I like it more and more every time i mess with it.

Schmidt has done alot right with the newer models!

I am replacing 2 of my 6-36,s with the 10-60,s... I really like the scope!!

While not for everybody, the 10-60 really suits my needs and preferences.

I didn't expect the top end to be as good . The M1FL reticle is also excellent...

 

[carbonbased]

I am replacing 2 of my 6-36,s with the 10-60,s... I really like the scope!!

While not for everybody, the 10-60 really suits my needs and preferences.

I didn't expect the top end to be as good . The M1FL reticle is also excellent...

Thanks btw for sending me one of your now-unmounted well-used euro-wide-FOV 6-36 for only $200.

Appreciate it!!!

 

[wooferocau]

6-36 vs 10-60
Few observations... Distance 1000mtrs approx.

10-60 is sharper than 6-36
10-60 has more contrast, deeper colour saturation.
Eyebox is very similar to 6-36.
Parallax/Focus tighter on 10-60.
FOV.... "Almost" as good as 6-36..

More impressed the more I compare!

 

[JER6.5]

Quite the range you have there

How far out will you make it with the elevation in the 10-60, planning to zero above center in reticle?

 

[wooferocau]

On the little SRS...using 6mil base. 100yd zero ...17.5mils available so...circa 1800yds depending on caliber. (Centre of reticle hold)
Any longer I will use the Wedge Prism ( 15mils)

HTI will be similar.

That's my side paddock just outside the house...My "Range" is 10 min over the back paddocks....plates from 500 to 3500mtrs .

 

[wooferocau]

Thanks btw for sending me one of your now-unmounted well-used euro-wide-FOV 6-36 for only $200.

Appreciate it!!!

Not a problem...just send me a stamped , self addressed envelope!

 

[wooferocau]

One mounted.....one to go..

 

[JER6.5]

Finally got to test the 10-60, I like it even more now..!

 

[wooferocau]

@JER6.5

Have you had "Any" anomalies with focus?
What cartridge are you using with the 10-60?

 

[JER6.5]

@JER6.5

Have you had "Any" anomalies with focus?
What cartridge are you using with the 10-60?

No, not so far. Any reason for asking, have some issues with yours?

This rifle is 6.5x55, rather capable cartridge popular in the scandinavian countries.

 

[wooferocau]

PM Inbound..

 

[RagnarAW50]

he 12-50x56 had 0.025 mil turrents available, essentially 4 clicks to every 0.1 mil that folks normally have on a scope.

Wow! That is less than an inch at 1000 yds....I am pretty happy with the .05 clicks

 

[W54/XM-388]

Wow! That is less than an inch at 1000 yds....I am pretty happy with the .05 clicks

It seems many angle only purists don't like to have anyone talk about actual numbers of distance at the target but it's helpful to understand.

With a 0.1 mil scope, 1 single click is about 1cm at 100m but by the time you get to 1000m that's about 10cm and at say 1500m that's about 15cm which can mean that you might miss being able to line up with a small target center if you are trying for a tight group and have to adjust for changing winds.

When you have a 0.025 mil scope, it takes 4 clicks to make about 1cm at 100m which is a bit of a pain in the rear end to dial that much, but it means at 1000m each click is worth about 2.5cm or roughly an inch which gives you a lot of fine tuning ability as you push out to 1500m or 2000m.

It does of course mean tons of spinning the dial around and around so it's not great if you are playing PRS style games or such where you have lots of different distances in a short row. But it's great for when you are target shooting at long distance in a fairly narrow band of target distances at each interval of shooting.

Having "a great group" is not always the same thing as "hitting exactly where you wanted / were supposed to hit"...

 

[Islas82]

Any more updates? Am intrigued. I loved my 6-36 but couldn’t get into the minimalist P5FL. I was looking at the 5-45 because of the LRR but the M1FL is much more appealing since it gets rid of all the ranging crap and makes for a cleaner image.

 

[Huskydriver]

Any more updates? Am intrigued. I loved my 6-36 but couldn’t get into the minimalist P5FL. I was looking at the 5-45 because of the LRR but the M1FL is much more appealing since it gets rid of all the ranging crap and makes for a cleaner image.

The 545 is a garbage scope fyi lRR ain't bad cuz you will spend most of your time above 15x you won't really see the ranging stuff

 

[Islas82]

The 545 is a garbage scope fyi lRR ain't bad cuz you will spend most of your time above 15x you won't really see the ranging stuff

Good point. What don’t you like about the 5-45? Am do you have any options or experience with the 10-60.

 

[Huskydriver]

Good point. What don’t you like about the 5-45? Am do you have any options or experience with the 10-60.

You don't have to take my word for it others can confirm but the IQ of the 545 and the 327 are absolutely crap... Horrible design on SB part... The 525 is so much above both it's not even funny. @Glassaholic

 

[wooferocau]

You don't have to take my word for it others can confirm but the IQ of the 545 and the 327 are absolutely crap... Horrible design on SB part... The 525 is so much above both it's not even funny. @Glassaholic

On this i disagree, partly.

The S&B 3-27,s image quality is horrid..
The 5-45....is VERY good ..it lags behind the 6-36 a little and definitely the 10-60 ..BUT its still very good!

BTW..I own all 3 ..

 

[Huskydriver]

On this i disagree, partly.

The S&B 3-27,s image quality is horrid..
The 5-45....is VERY good ..it lags behind the 6-36 a little and definitely the 10-60 ..BUT its still very good!

BTW..I own all 3 ..

The 2 545s I looked through were just as bad as the 327s but aight

 

[Glassaholic]

I would agree with woofer above, the 3-27 IQ is probably the worst I've seen from S&B which is to say it is still better than a lot of other scopes, but not even close to the 5-25 in comparison. The 5-45 is more finicky than the 5-25 (9x erector compared to 5x and all that); however, the 5-45 I had was not nearly as bad as the 3-27 and actually had quite impressive edge to edge sharpness. One thing to ask yourself before purchasing a 8x/9x erector scope is whether or not you really "need" that range? I understand a lot of shooters "want" that range but most truly do not "need" it if that makes sense. With regard to the 3-27x56, that scope was specifically designed to fulfill a military contract for some military who decided their soldiers needed the 3x on bottom for nighttime clipon use and 27x on top for daytime long range work, it is likely the Hensoldt 3.5-26x56 may have also been designed to fulfill this requirement, but the Hensoldt's execution is considerably better than the Schmidt (with regard to IQ) though Hensoldt opted for a 7.4x erector vs. Schmidt's 9x design, in the end I'm sure the decision makers for that scope were wooed by the 9x design without fully thinking through what sacrifices have to be made when trying to cover such a large range. If I needed 3x on bottom while having higher mag on top I would choose the Ultra Short 3-20x50 over the 3-27x56 as I believe it performs better optically and I find little use for above 20x for long range work anyway due to atmospheric limitations with high magnifications. I have not seen the 10-60 but I've heard mixed reviews, overall I have heard it performs very well optically but mechanically it has been hit and miss - keep in mind this is just through the grapevine with no personal experience as the scope holds little interest for me as I do not shoot lemmings at 1000 yards in the arctic tundra. If you're a long range paper puncher, rimfire afficionado or small critter hunter I can see the benefits of the 10-60, but for most other applications it is overkill IMO.

 

[brianf]

I believe some of the thought process for the 5-45 was the mil was conttmplating the upper mag range for observation and target ID purposes more than shooting.

 

[wooferocau]

I've heard mixed reviews, overall I have heard it performs very well optically but mechanically it has been hit and miss -

Both my 10-60,s failed within a dozen shots !!

Optically they were superb, but mechanically a disaster. Mine are still some ways of coming back from S&B in Germany as they are still working to rectify the issue!!

 

[Islas82]

Both my 10-60,s failed within a dozen shots !!

Optically they were superb, but mechanically a disaster. Mine are still some ways of coming back from S&B in Germany as they are still working to rectify the issue!!

Early batch issues? Wonder if anyone is experiencing the same with newer production units.

 

[wooferocau]

Early batch issues? Wonder if anyone is experiencing the same with newer production units.

Have there been other cases other than my own ... Yes ..

 

[RagnarAW50]

Wow....I have a few hundred rounds out of a 50BMG with one, no problems.

At least they are working to fix them...what caliber etc...details of the failure please....

 

[wooferocau]

Wow....I have a few hundred rounds out of a 50BMG with one, no problems.

At least they are working to fix them...what caliber etc...details of the failure please....

50Bmg and 300Win.
#1 out of focus after every shot.
#2 after 3 to 4 shots ,complexly out of focus.

 

[RagnarAW50]

Well I have information to add.....

Shot 209 of 50BMG on my 10-60 with parallax/focus set for 1000yds indicating about 900 meters on the dial, the scope went badly out of focus.

I was at a match, so I tried refocusing which worked, now the knob indicates 220 meters with the parallax and focus perfect at 1000yds. I suspect it skipped a tooth or cog or something like that.

I went on to win the match and shoot better than I ever have....so I was not upset....something about having one of the best days you ever had at a match puts you in a good mood ....now if I could just keep shooting that way......

Anyway I reached out to S&B and they said send the scope in they make it right, so I am unconcerned.

If they can fix it so it does not happen I will buy another one, for my purposes it is the perfect scope. 1000yd FCSA match and hopefully soon some F class shooting...

I REALLY hope there is an upgrade/fix for this scope!!!

 

[wooferocau]

S&B Germany are currently working on a fix for the 10-60 issue .
Not quite ready yet but getting close.
I have 2 10x60,s in Germany waiting for the fix to be implemented...

 

[Budrichard]

Purchased S&B 10-60 MOA version from the EuroOptic sale.
That version to my surprise on receiving the scope does not have illumination!
It’s went back and a MilRad 1/2cm CCW version is on it’s way back to me.
I had EuroOptic verify in hand that the scope has the integrated parallax and illumination.
I had read somewhere that a cheaper version of the 10-60 MOA without illumination had been made for the Nordic countries?
The reticle in the second focal plane without illumination was very hard to see.
Hope I don’t have any mechanical problems?
I wonder if the price reduction is to-pave the way for scopes without the FOV restriction?
-Richard

 

[wooferocau]

S&B Germany are currently working on a fix for the 10-60 issue .
Not quite ready yet but getting close.
I have 2 10x60,s in Germany waiting for the fix to be implemented...

Just an update...
Changed out my 10-60,s for "2" 5-45 High Powers.... ( LRR-Mil Reticle)

 

[Islas82]

Just an update...
Changed out my 10-60,s for "2" 5-45 High Powers.... ( LRR-Mil Reticle)

How do you like the 5-45s? Do you feel like the ranging stadia is in the way now that you have used the MILF reticle on the CMII

 

[wooferocau]

How do you like the 5-45s? Do you feel like the ranging stadia is in the way now that you have used the MILF reticle on the CMII

To my surprise the 5-45 ( current manufacture) is "slightly " sharper and better resolving than the 10-60 !!! the 10-60 has a tad more contrast, but its close....so overall i prefer the 5-45.
The ranging stadia isnt my cup of tea , and yes is a little obtrusive, BUT i LOVE the LRR-MIL reticle ...the very very fine dot suits my taste . Most of my shooting is done at 30/35x ..
I actually like the "OLD" focus dial and the separate "barnacle" illumination on the 5-45 over the new integrated setup that S&B now uses on their NEW scopes..

FOV is another surprise of the 5-45...... its only "just" behind the 6-36!! So its excellent. ONLY downside of the 5-45 is the "price" !!

 

[Islas82]

To my surprise the 5-45 ( current manufacture) is "slightly " sharper and better resolving than the 10-60 !!! the 10-60 has a tad more contrast, but its close....so overall i prefer the 5-45.
The ranging stadia isnt my cup of tea , and yes is a little obtrusive, BUT i LOVE the LRR-MIL reticle ...the very very fine dot suits my taste . Most of my shooting is done at 30/35x ..
I actually like the "OLD" focus dial and the separate "barnacle" illumination on the 5-45 over the new integrated setup that S&B now uses on their NEW scopes..

FOV is another surprise of the 5-45...... its only "just" behind the 6-36!! So its excellent. ONLY downside of the 5-45 is the "price" !!

Agreed on the price.

 

[JakeM]

To my surprise the 5-45 ( current manufacture) is "slightly " sharper and better resolving than the 10-60 !!! the 10-60 has a tad more contrast, but its close....so overall i prefer the 5-45.
The ranging stadia isnt my cup of tea , and yes is a little obtrusive, BUT i LOVE the LRR-MIL reticle ...the very very fine dot suits my taste . Most of my shooting is done at 30/35x ..
I actually like the "OLD" focus dial and the separate "barnacle" illumination on the 5-45 over the new integrated setup that S&B now uses on their NEW scopes..

FOV is another surprise of the 5-45...... its only "just" behind the 6-36!! So its excellent. ONLY downside of the 5-45 is the "price" !!

So, the new 5-45 might be better than the 5-25?
If so, that might be worth the price to invest in a really good do all precision scope.

 

[JER6.5]

To my surprise the 5-45 ( current manufacture) is "slightly " sharper and better resolving than the 10-60 !!! the 10-60 has a tad more contrast, but its close....so overall i prefer the 5-45.
The ranging stadia isnt my cup of tea , and yes is a little obtrusive, BUT i LOVE the LRR-MIL reticle ...the very very fine dot suits my taste . Most of my shooting is done at 30/35x ..
I actually like the "OLD" focus dial and the separate "barnacle" illumination on the 5-45 over the new integrated setup that S&B now uses on their NEW scopes..

FOV is another surprise of the 5-45...... its only "just" behind the 6-36!! So its excellent. ONLY downside of the 5-45 is the "price" !!

To bad the 10-60 issue you experienced is not yet resolved. But two 5-45 instead is an OK solution I guess..

Not really surprised you like the 5-45, even though I definitely give an edge to my 10-60 and 6-36 optically compared to my 5-45, a few years old. I guess it is natural to refine models as years pass and methods/tooling improve.

Care to share what FOV numbers you are seing through the zoom range on the 5-45?

 

[wooferocau]

To bad the 10-60 issue you experienced is not yet resolved. But two 5-45 instead is an OK solution I guess..

Not really surprised you like the 5-45, even though I definitely give an edge to my 10-60 and 6-36 optically compared to my 5-45, a few years old. I guess it is natural to refine models as years pass and methods/tooling improve.

Care to share what FOV numbers you are seing through the zoom range on the 5-45?

S&B have , as of now a solution for the 10-60 issue.....but in the end i discovered i like the 5-45 better...for a few reasons...

Shooting Monday at 3000yds ....so will get you some FOV images through the 5-45..