Rifle Scopes New Scope choice

[boisebrett]

Over the summer this year I put a package together. I bought a NIB Rem 700 BDL, 26" fluted barrel, 300 WM. I had a trigger job done and muzzle brake installed. For optics I went with a Vortex Viper PST 6.5-24X50, FFP, MIL/MIL, EBR-1 MRAD reticle, 30 MOA EGW base and Seekins Precision rings. I did some reloads with hunting in mind as well as some target rounds. The scope performed well and I really enjoyed all the features of the Viper PST. I started this journey the first week of August.

I took this rig with homemade, laminated ballistic cards hunting for bull elk on October 15th. I was prepared for a 700 yard shot(still have 1500 ft.lbs. of energy). Halfway through the opening day of elk hunting I discovered something amiss with my elevation turret(no clicks to the up direction). Long story short I ended up using my backup gun/scope for the remainder of the week. After returning home I discovered the entire elevation turret assembly loose in the scope body. I have sent the scope back to Wisconsin for warranty work. I haven't received it back yet(they received it 3 days ago). I understand Vortex has a great warranty and customer service. That is fine and well, but I will move on to a different brand. No hard feelings. It worked well for the price. I take that back, lots of hard feelings. Trying hard to forgive and forget, but it is still too fresh in my mind.

To get those same features that the Viper PST has I expect to have to pay a lot more money to change brands. I really enjoyed that reticle and power range.

I was apprehensive about changing from the brand I had been used to, since all my hunting rifles feature a Leupold VX2, 3-9X40. I heard from enough folks to not go that route so I did not.

So currently I am considering either a Nightforce or US Optics. I like what I have read about both brands.

Has anyone experienced shooting with 6.5-24 power for long range and then switched to something like the USO 3.2-17?

The 24 power was awesome after shooting with a max of 9 for years. Is 17 strong enough to be used beyond 1000 yards for target shooting?

Thanks
BoiseBrett

 

[Crosshair]

I'm sure Vortex will make it right. It can happen with any scope at any price point. Nightforce and USO are both built like tanks and will weight considerably more. 17x is plenty of power for long range, especially with high resolution glass. If you can afford to move up to Nightforce or USO, I would. If not, I'd look into a SWFA SS 5-20x50. Very close to Nightforce glass. The Vortex Razor would be a big step up too. Might be worth checking with Vortex to see if they'd trade you up. Several other great options in the $1800-$2500 range.
Steiner
Leupold
Premier
IOR
And more...

 

[boisebrett]

I'm sure Vortex will make it right. It can happen with any scope at any price point. Nightforce and USO are both built like tanks and will weight considerably more. 17x is plenty of power for long range, especially with high resolution glass. If you can afford to move up to Nightforce or USO, I would. If not, I'd look into a SWFA SS 5-20x50. Very close to Nightforce glass. The Vortex Razor would be a big step up too. Might be worth checking with Vortex to see if they'd trade you up. Several other great options in the $1800-$2500 range.
Steiner
Leupold
Premier
IOR
And more...

Thanks! Until recently I hadn't even heard of Premier. The talk in my neighborhood is that Leupold isn't up to the task as far as quality these days. I am not speaking from personal experience. Just from what I have been told.

Well a big push to buy a "better" scope has come about due to recent events. Having issues with my recent scope and also in about 8 months I will have my first child or rather my wife will have it, I will have been just a participant
. So not only is that return to AK for fishing out of the question, I have once chance to get the next scope purchase done. If stepping up to the next price point will get it done, so be it.

Thanks

 

[Crosshair]

It's true, the Leupold Mk4 line is getting pretty dated and for what they cost there are better options. The newer Mk6 line is excellent and worth looking at and fits in the price point of the $1800-$2500 league. I did notice a Hensoldt 4-16 for sale here on the hide for a great deal, not sure if it's still there. The Premier glass is amazing, the 3-15x50 Light Tactical is a rockin choice in that ballpark. A relatively new player to the tactical scene is March, they have really high magnification ratios and are lightweight and have excellent glass. So many great optics out there these days...

 

[boisebrett]

A friend of mine pointed me in the direction of this site in reference to the classified section. There does seem to be a variety of options for sale here on snipershide.

As of right now it is USO at #! and Nightforce at #2. At this early juncture in my research this is where I stand.

Thanks again.

 

[RHutch]

The two scopes you are considering are going to weigh 8 oz to a pound more. Just want to make you aware as the extra weight could mess up the balance of your rifle.

It is unfortunate that you experienced a Vortex failure while on a hunt which is the worst place to have a failure IMO, especially if there is big $$ on the table in travel, time and guides.
Lots of talk about how great the vortex warranty is and the number of failures reported over the past couple years is enough to keep me from putting one on a big game rifle. I have owned 4-5 of the PST scopes and will not buy another. I do have a new one on my 223 but it is just a range toy and pdog gun.

I personally run the Premier lite Tacs on 3 hunting rifles and they have been great for the past two seasons.
Have never really needed more than 15x to make a shot on game out to 500yds and usually end up with the scope on 8x-12x when the trigger breaks. YMMV.

 

[boisebrett]

Thanks RHutch. I've only experienced an optics failure on a hunt once before and that brand has been banned from my "equipment list" ever since. Now I have a second brand that is banned.

Weight has been a consideration when looking at specs. Without actually having a heavier scope attached to my setup I don't have any experience as to how it will affect the balance.

I don't expect an optics package to make the shot for me, but I do expect perfect function.. I hope to find a product that fits my needs.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Don't overlook Bushnell. I run Leupolds, but I've been impressed with the Bushnells I've looked through. If I was in the market for new glass, it would be at the top of the list.

 

[VJJPunisher]

i've read good things coming out of the UTG camp, 100 dollar scopes is where it's at

 

[Pinecone]

I had the same thing happen to my Vortex PST. I just screwed the elevation turret back in, and tightened it by hand. I was in the middle of a Bangsteel shooting course.

Shot the rest of the day, including hits out to 1200 yards. I rechecked the zero at 200 yards and it was spot on.

Afterwards, I sent it to Vortex, they repurged the scope with inert gas and loctited the turret. Total turn around was about a week.

 

[boisebrett]

I had the same thing happen to my Vortex PST. I just screwed the elevation turret back in, and tightened it by hand. I was in the middle of a Bangsteel shooting course.

Shot the rest of the day, including hits out to 1200 yards. I rechecked the zero at 200 yards and it was spot on.

Afterwards, I sent it to Vortex, they repurged the scope with inert gas and loctited the turret. Total turn around was about a week.

I wish I had discovered the malfunction out in the field. All I was sure of was that I had no clicks in the up direction. I determined the elevation turret assembly was loose after I had returned from the hunt. I may have been able to take a bull on the last day of the hunt had I figured it out. But instead I missed at 470 yards with my backup rifle with its 3-9 power, duplex reticle scope.

I just may settle the heck down and grin and bear it and press on and use the Viper. But at this point I want to upgrade.

Thanks for the reassuring post on the warranty work.

 

[Rhyno]

I have a Vortex post, and have had no issues with it.

With that said, in your situation I would probably buy a new scope, nothing bothers me more then being unsure about equipment.

 

[Skigolfmike]

I have 3 Vortex optics, a Viper HD spotting scope, a Razor HD 5.5-20 EBR-2B scope on a 6.5 CM and a Viper PST 1-4 on an AR. I've had good luck with all of them. I considered getting the 6.5-24x50 PST, but it decided I like the features of the Razor line a little better for the the 6.5CM. I've seen a lot of people use the PST with good success and I know support from Vortex is good as I have used it in the past.

That said, USO and Nightforce are solid scopes. You won't go wrong there.

 

[boisebrett]

I probably just ended up getting the 1 in XXXXXX defective scopes. Which could have happened with any manufacturer. I have learned a lot in the last five months. One feature in a scope, "I" think, that is a darn great idea is a zero stop. I know Nightforce has that feature on some scopes. But I don't know if USO does.

 

[Rhyno]

Uso does, the ereck (erek) know acts like it.

If I could afford one I'd have a uso tpal with an erek knob but I can't. Haha. I think the windage stops would be helpful to.

Don't take my word for it, as I have not even held a Uso, only read a bunch.

Magnums are harder on scopes as well, never had an issue, cause I've never owned a magnum.

 

[boisebrett]

Thanks all.

 

[boisebrett]

I wrote, what I felt was a heartfelt yet professional 2 page letter that I enclosed with the Viper PST scope when I sent it back to Vortex for warranty work. Along with a copy of the receipt of purchase. Apparently the letter was read and had been professional enough, a priority mail letter arrived today with a check for the full refund of purchase. Also a professional apology letter accompanied the check. Well done Vortex! May your product quality improve so that I may one day revisit your offerings. But for now I will continue to research.

 

[Crosshair]

That type of customer service is rare in this day and age. It is really nice to know you have a group like that taking care of you whether you bought a $100 Crossfire or a $2000 Razor. Bravo Vortex!

 

[samnev]

If I was upgrading to a NightForce or a USO, I have both, and money was a concern I would go with the 5.5-22X50/56. If not then the USO but something with more magnification than the 3.2-17X. Probably the US Optics SN-3 5-25 T-PAL. There is one in the Scopes For Sale on this board for $2500.

 

[boisebrett]

If I was upgrading to a NightForce or a USO, I have both, and money was a concern I would go with the 5.5-22X50/56. If not then the USO but something with more magnification than the 3.2-17X. Probably the US Optics SN-3 5-25 T-PAL. There is one in the Scopes For Sale on this board for $2500.

Thanks! So far I'm leaning heavily in the USO direction. The magnification is a concern, but I haven't much experience. I liked the 24X of the viper. But without looking through a USO 17 vs 25, I don't know which would be better for me.

With the EREK knob I have learned the scope is set up for a 100 yard zero with a 20 moa base. I understand there is "some" down adjustment in the elevation turret. But how much? Currently I have a 30 moa base.

 

[Rhyno]

Thanks! So far I'm leaning heavily in the USO direction. The magnification is a concern, but I haven't much experience. I liked the 24X of the viper. But without looking through a USO 17 vs 25, I don't know which would be better for me.

With the EREK knob I have learned the scope is set up for a 100 yard zero with a 20 moa base. I understand there is "some" down adjustment in the elevation turret. But how much? Currently I have a 30 moa base.

You can adjust it. Watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5eARixqoQM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[boisebrett]

I watched that video last night. In it he does a very good job at simply explaining the adjustment in the elevation knob. For his example he used 1 Mil down. I suppose an email to USO would answer the question of; How much down adjustment is there? I've been told(not by a USO owner) that the elevation range listed in their specs is mostly up travel from the point of setup so there isn't much down adjustment. In the case of the scope in this video it is zero @ 100 w/20 moa base and he obviously at least has 1 mil. The 30 moa base I have installed would require more than 1 mil adjustment down. I think.

 

[Rhyno]

I believe Orkan put the one mil down in there.

You can adjust the Allen head screw to have any amount of downward travel in in, in theory you could have equal up and down movement.

So when you get it, and throw it on your 30 moa base you just adjust it to your zero, then you zero the EREK knob and your zero is set. Or you dial down a certain amount the set the EREK there.

This video probably explains it a little better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRruWk9eZpw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[boisebrett]

Excellent video Rhyno! Thanks!

 

[jtrax]

I'm sure Vortex will make it right. It can happen with any scope at any price point. Nightforce and USO are both built like tanks and will weight considerably more. 17x is plenty of power for long range, especially with high resolution glass. If you can afford to move up to Nightforce or USO, I would. If not, I'd look into a SWFA SS 5-20x50. Very close to Nightforce glass. The Vortex Razor would be a big step up too. Might be worth checking with Vortex to see if they'd trade you up. Several other great options in the $1800-$2500 range.
Steiner
Leupold
Premier
IOR
And more...

OP - I completely agree with Crosshair re: the SWFA SS HD 5-20x50. I primarily run Schmidt 5-25's along with some Premier 5-25's, USO's, and March 5-40's. A while back i picked up a SS HD 5-20x50 based upon a recommendation by someone who knows much more than I do about quality optics. I was amazed at the quality of this scope when I received it. For its price it cannot be beat. Glass is much better than its price would suggest.

As for going down in mag to a USO 3.2-17...I have one and while it is a great scope, every time I use it I wish it were a 5-25. YMMV.

 

[boisebrett]

OP - I completely agree with Crosshair re: the SWFA SS HD 5-20x50. I primarily run Schmidt 5-25's along with some Premier 5-25's, USO's, and March 5-40's. A while back i picked up a SS HD 5-20x50 based upon a recommendation by someone who knows much more than I do about quality optics. I was amazed at the quality of this scope when I received it. For its price it cannot be beat. Glass is much better than its price would suggest.

As for going down in mag to a USO 3.2-17...I have one and while it is a great scope, every time I use it I wish it were a 5-25. YMMV.

Great information. Thanks! The going down in mag is what I was mostly concerned with and didn't jump on a great deal for sale here. Somebody else did and solved that quandry.