Rifle Scopes New Shooter looking for help sighting in

[Bloodstriker]

I'm new on these forums and would like to ask from some advice about my situation. I bought a second hand TRG 22 26"yesterday. (Pretty much only been test fired by the previous owner). I was really looking forward to getting this out to the range today and giving it a try. Unfortunately, I couldn't not get it sighted in.

The TRG has a 25 MOA ATRS mount on it. I am using a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44. This scope is a stand in until I save up for something better as I "borrowed" it from my 17 HMR.

I tried getting on paper at 25M and if I aim dead center, the point of impact is 3.25" higher than my point of aim. The problem is that there's no more adjustment left in the scope. I've dialed it all the way down. According to Zeiss, the scope only has 43" of adjustment.

As I'm pretty new to shooting, I'm not completely certain what is causing this. My best guess is that the 25 MOA rail combined with the low total adjustment value of the scope is just a bad combination.

With this being said, is there any possibility that this could be caused by something else, or does is this situation likely given the information I've provided?

If the cause is indeed what I suspected it to be, I figure my options are the following considering i want to get the rifle up and running ASAP:

1. Buy a new scope. (I am planning to later this year, but I'm saving up for a higher end scope so this isn't an option for the short term as I'll wind up with something that I don't want to keep)

2. Change the rails to a 0 MOA one. (Seems really expensive to change the rails on a TRG).

3. Change the rings to one with a cant built in such as the Burris Signatues with inserts. (Not too knowledgeable in this - can I simply reverse the inserts to achieve -20MOA?)

Are there any other options or possibilities?

 

[medic727]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

If you're on paper at 25m, move out to 100m. That will give your scope elevation some room to move. You don't want to ditch the 25moa rail, unless you want to shoot at 25m. That rail is part of the setup so that your scope will be able to adjust for long range.

 

[Josh Elam]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

With your current setup you should be slightly high at 100. Have you shot at a 100? What range do you plan to shoot? I would make it work fr now. I'm a big fan of buying the best glass up front so I would work with what you have for now. What retical are you running?

 

[ShtrRdy]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

It sounds to me like your scope doesn't have enough adjustment to overcome the 25 moa rail.

Could you make your aiming point feature on the top verticle? In other words, if you were to use a feature on the top verticle part of the reticle, is this on or above the point of impact?

 

[Bloodstriker]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

Wow. I wasn't expecting replies so quickly.

727medic - at 100m I can't get on paper as the scope won't adjust anymore.

Josh Elam -yes. At 100M I'm going over the paper. I calculate that I'm about 15" (3.25" x 4 + 2.66") high at that distance although I can't verify. I agree with you. I want to try to make this work. The reticle is Z Plex. For now the max range will be 300M until I get a new scope.

ShtrEdy - I sort of understand what you are saying about using the top part of the vertical reticle. That option would probably be my last resort as I'm going for as small of groups as possible.

Does anyone have experience with the Burris Signature Rings with the inserts? That seems like the cheapest option so far.

 

[Bloodstriker]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

ShtrEdy - after reading your post again, it seems like I will not be able to do what you are sugguesting as I have a simple duplex reticle.

 

[fish30114]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

I agree, you should be high if anything--is it possible you have the rail on reversed? As another poster stated I would think they way you are indicating you are currently set up, I would expect you to be slightly high at 100 yds if anything.

Just saying on the rail???

 

[Bloodstriker]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

I originally thought the rail might have been reversed. I double checked last night and it looks like it's okay. I'm a newb, so I'll explain how I figured it out. Basically, the rail very slightly angles downward toward the muzzle. Actually, it also looks like the rail can only fit in one direction.

In regards to you mentioning that you expect it to be slightly high at 100 yds, do you mean the point of impact being higher than my point of aim, or vice versa?


How I originally installed the scope was I simply detached them from the pic rail of my other rifle and reattached to the TRG (didn't reseat the scope in the rings). I thought this might be a possible cause (or not?) so I took off the rings from the rail and the scope from the rings and tried redoing everything.

Right now, I am able to do a rough manual boresight at 9M (that's as far as a distance I have to work with at home). Note: I didn't try boresighting before, so I don't really know if any changed or not.

 

[Bushmaster11]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bloodstriker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> can I simply reverse the inserts to achieve -20MOA?</div></div>

I've heard of people doing this, but I'd start with what someone else said and move out to 100m/yds first and see where that gets you.

 

[steve123]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

#3 is the cheapest solution.

I use those Burris sig rings on many of my 22's but have used them on centerfires before with zero problems.

A inexpensive but good scope with lots of travel is the SWFA super sniper series. They have a 30mm main tube and approx 120 moa total elevation travel which is almost twice what your scope has now.

 

[fish30114]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

It sosunds like you have your rail on right. Typically with a 25 moa rail and your scope adjusted for impact as low as possible, you should be on or near at 100 yards. It is not typical to be as much as 15" high with your scope at the max of it's adjustment at 100 yards, even with a 25 moa rail. I'd try again at a 100 yards, and see where I was--the Zeiss is a fine scope and should definitely adjust out the 25moa in your rail. In fact I have the same scope and am easily able to adjust for 100 yard zero with a 20moa rail.

 

[victorz]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

If you know the point of impact is 15" higher at 100 yards, you can simple find a 300 yard rang and it will be on target. If you don't have 300 range close; 200 is fine and your poi is about 6-8" high. After that, try to shoot 400,500, and 600 yards with your 300 zero, if you can get on target. At least you know the rifle is ok and scope may out of adjustment due to the 25 moa rail.

 

[Frank]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

For some range time, just put a blank piece of paper above your target to catch the bullets. This will allow you to shoot little groups and work up a load if your a reloader. And you won't be messing up your aiming point. Simple physics with the 25 moa base and limited adjustment scope. Either use the Burris rings with the rubber inserts which may not be enough to get it exactly where you want it or live with it til you get the final scope solution. For paper punching, the aiming point and bullet impact point do not have to be the same.

 

[fish30114]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

Bloodstriker, upon re-reading your thread, it appears that you checked it out and Zeiss says that scope has 43" of adjustment. In rough translation, that accounts for 43 MOA at 100 yards, so you def should be able to adjust out the 25 MOA in your rail.

Just my way of looking at it.

 

[hdbiker1]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fish301</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bloodstriker, upon re-reading your thread, it appears that you checked it out and Zeiss says that scope has 43" of adjustment. In rough translation, that accounts for 43 MOA at 100 yards, so you def should be able to adjust out the 25 MOA in your rail.

Just my way of looking at it. </div></div>

When scope manufacturers state total elevation adjustment, that means in both directions from the machanical zero. That means the op only has around 21.5 of adjustment if his rifle shoots to the scopes mechanical zero.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When scope manufacturers state total elevation adjustment, that means in both directions from the machanical zero. That means the op only has around 21.5 of adjustment if his rifle shoots to the scopes mechanical zero.</div></div>

Yup, that Conquest simply does not have enough elevation for a 25 MOA mount and a 100 yard zero. It was designed to be a hunting optic and has a pretty limited adjustment range.

 

[MPD165]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

Replace the rail with a 0 MOA rail.

MPD165

 

[fish30114]

Re: New Shooter looking for help sighting in

Well I understand what ya'll are saying but that should leave only 3.5" of point of impact. The OP says he is getting a lot more than that. As I stated I have the same scope and with a 20 MOA rail I was able to get a 100 yard zero without issue. Sounds like something is compounding the issue with the 25 MOA rail.

 

[BigJimFish]

He said 15" at 100yds. Given the 3.5" that the scope adjustments simply lack on paper, + a few inches from drop in the round and to soak up the mount height, + individual variation scope to scope in total elevation from the stated norm, + variation in how true the barrel is to the action and rail, I think that 15" is well within the range of normal. Sure he is on the unfortunate side of a couple of factors that could go either way but Murphy always puts us on the bad side of the coin toss.