New shooter needs some help from a bench

[bluesteel]

I was experimenting with a few different aspects of my body position today while shooting from a bench. I was able to improve my group size quite a bit (which I'm happy with), but I'm sort of questioning what was working for me. Wanted to throw a few things out there to make sure I'm not developing bad habits.

Square shoulders
Everything I've seen about shooting a 308 from a bench says to keep your shoulders as square as possible. I've really been struggling with getting into a comfortable position, so today I decided to try angling a little bit. Not completely hugging the rifle, but maybe a 30 degree angle. I felt much more stable this way, and my consistency was better. Is this okay, or do I just need more practice?

Pressure to shoulder pocket
How much pressure should I using with my shooting hand to push the rifle into my shoulder pocket. Should I be pushing at all with my support hand? How much? I've tried different variations and my most consistent shots seem to be from a pretty firm pressure with both hands. My only concern is this works directly against the goal of finding a relaxed and sustainable position. I find it particularly difficult to relax my shoulders this way. More often I catch myself hunching them up towards my ears.

Breathing
Depending on different aspects of my body position, I'll notice my reticle move anywhere from .5 MOA or less, to as much as 2 MOA, during my breathing cycles. Of course I'm breaking the shot during my respiratory pause so it doesn't affect the shot so much, but the amount of movement in the reticle seems to be a pretty good way for me assess whether or not my body position is consistent with my last shot. About how much movement do you all see with a good position, shooting from a bench? Is the amount of movement worth paying attention to, or should I only be concerned with whether or not its vertical?

 

[djskit]

Answer: E) Not enough information to answer the question.

You'll need to let us know how you have the rifle set up. Is the front supported by a bipod, sandbag or rest?

What are you using for rear support? if you use a good sand bag of the proper size there should be no movement.

Finally, I shoot off a bench maybe 10% of the time at the range - since I shoot mostly prone in matches - that is how I run the rifle at the range.

 

[bluesteel]

Sometimes I use a bipod but this session I had a large sandbag up front and medium sized bag in the rear. Bags were adjusted such that I could get my point of aim right be lightly squeezing/releasing the rear bag. Nothing too forced.

Movement from my breathing seems to be related to how firmly and specifically where in my shoulder pocket I push back the rifle.

Even with bags, shouldn't I see some up/down movement with my breathing?

I'm shooting mostly bench right now because that's what my range has. Unless I get to know one of the RO's, there's only a couple days a month I can have access to the 200 yard range and practice prone.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

I shoot mostly from a bench and at either 100 or 200 yards. I use an Atlas bipod and a rear bag. As a result, I have no support hand and my firing hand is only applying minimal rearward pressure, maybe only a pound or so. The gun nestles into my shoulder pocket as a result of my lightly leaning into the gun as my head moves forward onto the cheek rest and i assume my final firing position behind the scope.
My shoulders are more or less square behind the gun with my upper arms and elbows supporting my upper body weight. Weight of the head is supported by the stock and I gauge my fore and aft position by the eye box on my scope. I am, as near as I can manage, fully relaxed behind the gun. Took some training to get there as the cutouts in our benches are pretty deep and i have to hug the right side of the bench to get my chest leaning on the bench.

In this position, my reticle does not move on the target with my breathing and barely moves during the pitiful recoil pulse of a braked 6.5 CM in a 14 pound rifle. My trigger pull is as straight back as I can manage and I concentrate on maintaining that sight picture during the minimal 19 oz from touch to trigger break. If I'm more than 0.1 mil off the sight picture, I release the trigger and reset myself. This ain't easy due to the level of concentration required and the vagaries of a 72 YO body that has had far more abuse over the years than care or what is good for it. The main reason I don't go prone is it takes too much time and effort to get back up, dammit.

 

[bluesteel]

Thanks for the detailed response. You addressed quite a few things I was unclear about. I understand the 6.5 Creedmoor is a little lighter on the recoil, but I don't know by how much. Should any of this change to handle a heavier-recoiling 308?

 

[shovelstrokeed]

I don't think it should change much. I shoot my LWRC Reaper the same way as I do the Creedmoor. For that matter, my Ruger Gunsite Scout. The Reaper has a tank style muzzle brake, the Scout just a flash hider that came on it.

If your upper body is relaxed, you can absorb the recoil as a part of the gun. The 6.5 is noticeably softer than the 308. It is lower in both amplitude and the shape of the pulse. 123 to 139 grain bullets vs 168 to 180g for the 308 at more or less similar velocities. A brake makes recoil a non-issue.

I have found one trick, learned from years of riding sport bikes, that really helps you get relaxed in the upper body. Do not bend from the waist. Keep your upper body erect and bend from the hips. Use a little lower chair or stool when at the bench to adjust. The angle of your shoulder will then be more akin to a standing position rather than putting stress on your lower back.

 

[Pester]

BlueSteel, those are great questions. At some point I think having others look at what is happening when you actually shoot will help.

I might recommend looking at theNCAL precisions website NCPPRC: News and see when they have open Saturdays. I think they always shoot out of the Sac Valley range (east of Sacramento proper). There you can get help and even use one of Marc Soulies rifles (Spartan Precision) for the cost of the ammo. Very helpful folks and willing to spend time with people.

While its not in your backyard you could make a run out, get help and they go to the public range. Make a day of it. The 100 yd rifle range allows you to shoot prone or from a bench. Once you show the range office target with good groups they will qual you for the 300 yrd range where you can shoot prone or bench.

I see people at the 300 yrd line all the time that are great shooters and (maybe this says something about my shooting) they frequently just come up and offer to help. Friendly folks out there.

my 2 cents

 

[bluesteel]

Yea, I've had a few people recommend I go out there. Need to find someone from the East Bay I can carpool with.