The new version is missing the forward assist, but the big reveal was 6.8mm 113gr “contract over run practice ammo” for only $2,400 a case.
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New Sig Spear in 6.8mm
- Thread starter Vynz
- Start date
Ok, I did a bit of digging and found 460 rounds of 6.8x51 in a metal ammo crate listed at just over $1200. I’ve also seen two military ammo boxes, bundled together, listed as a “case.” 920 rounds plus 2 ammo boxes for $2400 is pricey, but not ludicrous. At least, not when 6.5 creedmoor can be found at $40+ per 20.
This isn’t even the 6.8mm 130gr military super bullet NGSW was based around - it’s 113gr practice ammo. Also by emphasizing practice rounds I’m not even certain they are loaded to the same pressures as the god stuff despite the hybrid case.
Also here: https://ammoseek.com/ammo/6.5mm-creedmoor?ikw=Eld-m
120gr ELD-M 6.5 creedmoor for about $1.28 a round. Not the best BC but better than a 113gr 6.8mm with unknown velocities for practice.
Of all the Sig Next announcements this one has me scratching my head the most; and they also released a 4.3” barreled P365 “Fuse” at this event for context.
I'm not planning on touching the caliber for anything other than resizing spent cases to .308 and 6.5CM for fun times until there's more than just sig making the ammo.
I think we'll see more companies making guns for the caliber and more manufacturers, but it'll take time.
I do find the cartridge interesting from the perspective that it might open up some good options for us in the lightweight and short bolt action world, much the same as can be achieved with Arc/Grendel now, but significantly more ass and a heavier bullet.
I think we'll see more companies making guns for the caliber and more manufacturers, but it'll take time.
I do find the cartridge interesting from the perspective that it might open up some good options for us in the lightweight and short bolt action world, much the same as can be achieved with Arc/Grendel now, but significantly more ass and a heavier bullet.
The 113 gr fmj "practice ammo", is most likely crap ammo.
If one already owns the gun, you can reload for it with good bullets in the 135 gr BT range much cheaper.
Pulled bullets 135 gr BT and primed cases available for about 80 cents per shot
I use the hybrid cases for 308, 6.5 CM, 8.6 Blackout in bolt guns ... cause I don't have a 277 Fury semi auto....I heard SIG dropped the pressure from 80,000 psi to 70,000 psi for accuracy reasons when they reintroduced the military ammo for the 135 gr military bullets.
If one already owns the gun, you can reload for it with good bullets in the 135 gr BT range much cheaper.
Pulled bullets 135 gr BT and primed cases available for about 80 cents per shot
I use the hybrid cases for 308, 6.5 CM, 8.6 Blackout in bolt guns ... cause I don't have a 277 Fury semi auto....I heard SIG dropped the pressure from 80,000 psi to 70,000 psi for accuracy reasons when they reintroduced the military ammo for the 135 gr military bullets.
The military EPR round was $21.47 per round per the documents Bartocci showed the other day.
Training ammo was $3.49 I think for the military, not sure what bullet weight that was.
The 113gr round should be doing 3140fps if it’s run at the same pressure as the 135gr that was doing 2900fps from a 13” barrel.
If it’s run at reduced pressure, it will be doing around 2900fps like a .308 would spitting 110gr.
That’s a crazy amount of money to blow when you can get very similar performance from legacy cartridges.
Training ammo was $3.49 I think for the military, not sure what bullet weight that was.
The 113gr round should be doing 3140fps if it’s run at the same pressure as the 135gr that was doing 2900fps from a 13” barrel.
If it’s run at reduced pressure, it will be doing around 2900fps like a .308 would spitting 110gr.
That’s a crazy amount of money to blow when you can get very similar performance from legacy cartridges.
Somewhat related as far as the 6.8x51mm Common, but this is the Lithgow/Wedgetail bullpup chambered for that cartridge that was just introduced. It's a multi-caliber weapons system manufactured in Australia for "professional use only" (so no civilian sales in AUS), but they say that it will be exported. It at least shows that the chambering has some overseas interest.
Probably...it's the military. Unlimited supply of money, $25 a round is cheap to them.
They tried 62 blends of top secret powders before, settling on the first round, at 80,000 psi.
A spokesman said they were going to drop to 70,000 psi for accuracy concerns ... did they? Maybe in the 113 gr "practice rounds"...But...Not if the military needs the velocity for body armor penetration.
I use the hybrid cases in 6.5 CM , 308 win, 8.6 BO, etc.
Powders are limited in what is available to the public ...here is a 6.5 CM with 140 gr bullet with a top velocity of 3152 fps....with a 24" barrel factory RPR. The wrong powder is written on tbe paper...by the way.
I do not know what it will do in a 13" barrel, cause I ain't gonna shorten it.
I have no use for an SBR and have eliminated all AR pistols. Being a rifleman, 16" is as short as I'll ever go....I like 18" ARs, & maybe even a 20". Short barrels leave too much on the table for my shooting endeavors.
They tried 62 blends of top secret powders before, settling on the first round, at 80,000 psi.
A spokesman said they were going to drop to 70,000 psi for accuracy concerns ... did they? Maybe in the 113 gr "practice rounds"...But...Not if the military needs the velocity for body armor penetration.
I use the hybrid cases in 6.5 CM , 308 win, 8.6 BO, etc.
Powders are limited in what is available to the public ...here is a 6.5 CM with 140 gr bullet with a top velocity of 3152 fps....with a 24" barrel factory RPR. The wrong powder is written on tbe paper...by the way.
I do not know what it will do in a 13" barrel, cause I ain't gonna shorten it.
I have no use for an SBR and have eliminated all AR pistols. Being a rifleman, 16" is as short as I'll ever go....I like 18" ARs, & maybe even a 20". Short barrels leave too much on the table for my shooting endeavors.
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Once you get down to the individual units, you have very real and limited training ammunition budgets, as well as go-to-war ammo in ASPs set aside. At Division, Brigade, and Battalion-level, an increase in cost per round from mere cents to $3.47/rd or $21.47/rd basically kills training.
This may be one of the main reasons why Ranger Regiment, SF, and other SOF units refuse to adopt it so far. They actually shoot all the time, and this would crush their training budgets single-handedly.
This exponential increase in ammo budget would crush the NATO partner nations even more, as they have extremely limited funds even with their pledged commitments to increasing. The 6.8x51 cartridges at these costs are a non-starter from a budgetary standpoint even for the most wealthy units.
Then there’s the support infrastructure costs for changing and building new ranges and shoot houses. Crank off a 70ksi carbine spitting these types of projectiles at those velocities in a shoot house and you’re likely to have escapes, which is a show-stopper for safety and certification of the shoot house facilities.
The 80ksi load would generate 2780fps with a 140gr in 6.5CM hybrid from a 13” barrel based on 45-90’s 24” barrel numbers, assuming that load is 80ksi.
70ksi would be somewhere around 2680fps from the 13”. Barrel life is the other concern.
The 6.8mm would have better barrel life due to lack of overbore.
For the desired performance, I think any cartridge based off the 7.62x51 dimensions is a non-starter due to inability to carry enough rounds, bulk of the mags, and loss of sight picture when firing even from these 12-14lb carbines.
I purchased 2000 6.8X51 hybrid cases with 1500 still unused. Cheaper than Winchester, cases.
So no increase in cost for me, less than half the cost of Lapua.
But I have to form them into other calibers, cause I don't own the 277 Fury.
To get similar performance powders are limited...but "improvements" can be made.
Plus a safety feature when pushing the envelope in calibers like 8.6 Blk with QL and limiting pressure to 65,000 psi here.
In one 10 shot group test with a 308 bolt gun hybrid cases were more accurate than both Lapua LR and SR palma cases.
I have a bunch of Lapua SR palma cases but in this test with sected powder they were absolutely the worst in accuracy, standard deviation, and 40 fps lower velocity.
The hybrid case is lighter by weight than brass cases and have a bit more capacity.
They can be reoaded with regular factory dies.
The last picture is a congressman holding a bag of rivets that the US government pays $90,000 for each bag!
Over paid, ....of coarse, that's what happens when they all get a kick back from the no bid sale to cousin Joe, and put former congressmen in defense department executive positions....they all retire mulii millionaires.
Just the way government business is done.
Taxpayers money is wasted on the political corruption, with only a portion getting to the project or cause.
Like 43 billion for rural internet, with zero signed up...or all the 500,000 charging stations with 7 built. Goverment efficiency.
So no increase in cost for me, less than half the cost of Lapua.
But I have to form them into other calibers, cause I don't own the 277 Fury.
To get similar performance powders are limited...but "improvements" can be made.
Plus a safety feature when pushing the envelope in calibers like 8.6 Blk with QL and limiting pressure to 65,000 psi here.
In one 10 shot group test with a 308 bolt gun hybrid cases were more accurate than both Lapua LR and SR palma cases.
I have a bunch of Lapua SR palma cases but in this test with sected powder they were absolutely the worst in accuracy, standard deviation, and 40 fps lower velocity.
The hybrid case is lighter by weight than brass cases and have a bit more capacity.
They can be reoaded with regular factory dies.
The last picture is a congressman holding a bag of rivets that the US government pays $90,000 for each bag!
Over paid, ....of coarse, that's what happens when they all get a kick back from the no bid sale to cousin Joe, and put former congressmen in defense department executive positions....they all retire mulii millionaires.
Just the way government business is done.
Taxpayers money is wasted on the political corruption, with only a portion getting to the project or cause.
Like 43 billion for rural internet, with zero signed up...or all the 500,000 charging stations with 7 built. Goverment efficiency.
Attachments
Yes, the Mafia inserted itself into govt contracts already by the 1930s at the latest. JFK wanted to hire someone that wasn’t compromised to oversee the Renegotiation Board, and one of the candidates to head the agency was Thomas D”Alesandro Jr., who was selected for the job. He was of course a Mafia stooge loyal to the 5 families and the National Crime Syndicate who had been under investigation for Hatch Act violations and corruption by the FBI since the 1940s, but they were never allowed to indict him for some reason.
He brought his daughter (left) with him to meet JFK in the WH when he was interviewing for the job:
Guess what day the FBI files were finally released under FOIA? Jan 6, 2021. The government had known about this for 80 years. He was a big supporter of the FBI as well, sending them letters of adoration. The Bureau covered for organized crime for decades, with compromised fag Director Hoover stating officially that the Mafia didn’t even exist.
If you read through the Renegotiation Board’s history, they were formed to deal with malfeasance and corruption in excess profiteering from primarily smaller defense contractors who provided low-value services and products, who were padding their numbers. This was mainly with non-durable goods like uniforms, clothing, laundry services, stupid stuff like that.
Guess who took over a lot of those industries to launder billions of dollars in the 1920s during Prohibition?
As they built their clout in the US industries and expanded their legitimate businesses, they got into more durable materials and goods, with a keen interest in strategic materials.
Is that why the ammunitions costs what it does, and why LSAT was rejected? It does make one wonder, though I have often found perfectly-reasonable explanations for DoD costs when looking at TDPs and all the requirements that aren’t typical in any other industry.
He brought his daughter (left) with him to meet JFK in the WH when he was interviewing for the job:
Guess what day the FBI files were finally released under FOIA? Jan 6, 2021. The government had known about this for 80 years. He was a big supporter of the FBI as well, sending them letters of adoration. The Bureau covered for organized crime for decades, with compromised fag Director Hoover stating officially that the Mafia didn’t even exist.
If you read through the Renegotiation Board’s history, they were formed to deal with malfeasance and corruption in excess profiteering from primarily smaller defense contractors who provided low-value services and products, who were padding their numbers. This was mainly with non-durable goods like uniforms, clothing, laundry services, stupid stuff like that.
Guess who took over a lot of those industries to launder billions of dollars in the 1920s during Prohibition?
As they built their clout in the US industries and expanded their legitimate businesses, they got into more durable materials and goods, with a keen interest in strategic materials.
Is that why the ammunitions costs what it does, and why LSAT was rejected? It does make one wonder, though I have often found perfectly-reasonable explanations for DoD costs when looking at TDPs and all the requirements that aren’t typical in any other industry.
Back more on topic, as 45-90 said, you can essentially remanufacture hybrid 6.8x51 ammo for pretty cheap if you're so inclined. Certainly makes more sense than paying those insane prices, if you're set on the Fury.
Primed cases are $0.50 each shipped here: https://americanreloading.com/product/277-fury-6-8x51mm-sig-primed-hybrid-case-100ct/
135 gr copper solids are 14 cpr here: https://americanreloading.com/product/270-135gr-solid-copper-bt-blems-250ct/
And they frequently have ELDs etc available. Like 45-90, I've been reforming these cases to other cartridges and been pretty happy with the results, though the brass varies greatly in weight lot to lot, so I'd stock up all at once.
Primed cases are $0.50 each shipped here: https://americanreloading.com/product/277-fury-6-8x51mm-sig-primed-hybrid-case-100ct/
135 gr copper solids are 14 cpr here: https://americanreloading.com/product/270-135gr-solid-copper-bt-blems-250ct/
And they frequently have ELDs etc available. Like 45-90, I've been reforming these cases to other cartridges and been pretty happy with the results, though the brass varies greatly in weight lot to lot, so I'd stock up all at once.
Some info from soldier systems
SIG SAUER Broadens 6.8 / 277 FURY Offerings | Soldier Systems Daily
During the recent SIG NEXT event in New Hampshire SIG announced that they would not only introduce an MCX SPEAR chambered in 6.8x51, but that they are also ...
soldiersystems.net
HexCap™
low-profile, durable design provides a clear sight through your optic, eliminating reflections and keeping you concealed
onehundredconcepts.com
I think the Eotech reticles are great and wouldn’t change a thing, but that’s just me.
At first I thought the $4k price was a joke when a buddy told me about it.
I mean, it's a solution for a very specific problem requested by a customer with deep pockets, fair play for sig to deliver and cost it appropriately. the only reason it costs that much for us is the classic rule of "we can't sell it for less than uncle sam pays"HexCap™
low-profile, durable design provides a clear sight through your optic, eliminating reflections and keeping you concealed
I think the Eotech reticles are great and wouldn’t change a thing, but that’s just me.
At first I thought the $4k price was a joke when a buddy told me about it.
imo the fact they're offering it to the civ market at all rather than taking the route of "we're not selling that to the open market" like far too many defense contractors do is something we should appreciate. if you don't need it, don't buy it.
