Suppressors New Silencer! Bushwhacker 46 (Gen2) with ECO-FLOW™ technology!

[GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT]

Whats up guys,

Hope you're all enjoying your summer. We've been working hard at bringing this project to market the last several months. The team crushed it. This product is really amazing. If you have any questions feel free to drop them below and let us know what your thoughts / comments are. Thanks again for your interest and support!

*UPDATE*

I brought up the concerns noted in this thread and I want to disclose what we are doing.

#1 thanks to the gen 1 buyers. It was a phenomenal can that was performing at the top of the market in the big bore universal class the day it came out, which we are assuming is why the initial production run sold out in 2 weeks. Those end users will have a really cool product that lasts a lifetime and is supported hopefully by the owners children (who haven’t cleaned out any machine chip pans yet... so that generational take over is yet to be decided). Regardless it’s an amazing can.
#2 the pricing for the baffle “upgrade” was set at a bean counter meeting at 199.95msrp and includes return shipping. We will be building a product page for this in the coming weeks and will be listing all applicable information to users who are curious.
#3 Gen 1 users don’t need to upgrade and if it was my suppressor I wouldn’t. Use the cans they are great. We have made great memories with the Gen 1 production unit #0001. Shoot thousands of rounds through your can use it for a few years then upgrade when they are wearing out (if you shoot that much) if you don’t they will last you a lifetime. If you are the tip of the spear and need the latest and greatest the new stack is an improvement but it’s not needed for your Gen 1 unit to work and satisfy as advertised.
I know there’s a certain satisfaction in having the latest and greatest but there are guys flying 50 year old prop planes and having more fun than most of us.
Thanks again you guys are great. We do listen and take criticism to heart. But I want to be clear. There are companies who would kill to have the Gen 1 cans we built in their lineup, but they don’t. They are wicked cans. The Gen 2 is just better.

CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO

 

[Viper1973]

Question... for those of us who just purchased a Bushwhacker 46 is there going to be any upgrade path to the revised design? A premium product that was just released already being discontinued and redesigned wasn’t what any of us early adopters thought we were purchasing.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Is the name another play on words? If so, I’m disappointed in the creativity.

get started with gen3 and call it the M.U.F.L.R.

 

[9mmNATO]

I see at 3:35 minutes it says the Gen 1 Bushwhacker can be upgraded to Gen 2.
Can my Griffin dealer buy the Gen 2 baffles for a Gen 1 or is factory service only like a wipe?
I would like to see a comparison Gen 1 to Gen 2 with various calibers.

 

[GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT]

I'm in the marketing department and don't have intimate knowledge of why the company does everything that it does. That being said I did talk with engineering and they said that their first and foremost objective is to stay ahead of the technology curve in our market, meaning that when there is opportunity to improve something or make something better than what exists they have a directive to do it.


As far as upgrades go, engineering is figuring that out too. There was a discussion yesterday discussing this. I believe they are going to be making a custom spacer so that the new baffle stack can be exchanged with the Gen 1 tubes, should users desire the upgrade or if they ever wear out their baffle assembly it can be replaced with the new one. So gen 1 users need not worry their products will be supported into the future. I will post and keep you abreast of when that upgrade is available.

TO BE CLEAR, there is nothing "wrong" with Gen 1 units.... the new version is just a bit better is all. There are end users with 10 year old Griffin suppressors that are several generations older technology and those users are still happy with them. Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

[Viper1973]

TO BE CLEAR, there is nothing "wrong" with Gen 1 units.... the new version is just a bit better is all. There are end users with 10 year old Griffin suppressors that are several generations older technology and those users are still happy with them. Thanks for the feedback guys.

The video you guys posted above specifically states "Sound reduction across calibers is DRAMATICALLY increased compared to the previous generation". That does not seem to be just a 'bit' better. On your facebook group it was stated that the G2 design began with serial number #B46-0570. You totally changed directions before even making it to 600 units?? That tells me that the product was either rushed to market or has potential issues. This isn't some 10 year old product, it just hit dealer shelves a couple months ago.

The crux of the issue is those of us who adopted the Bushwhacker paid a premium price and now to actually get real performance from the product are going to have to pay for and go through the hassle of an upgrade - assuming it will actually even be available? That's not cool. I feel like we were being used as market test subjects.

 

[stiletto raggio]

I concur. Especially with an NFA item, where most of us don't even have possession of our cans yet, it seems like a bait and switch. My serial number is in the first half of the 'first gen' of production and it will probably be a few more months before I get hands on. It will be pretty difficult not to feel like I am taking possession of an inferior product at a premium price.

This seems like the product was either rushed to production knowing that the new baffles were coming or, upon using the first gen can, the designers thought, 'yeah, this isn't going to be very desirable once they get out in the wild' and started working on an upgrade.

 

[Viper1973]

I concur. Especially with an NFA item, where most of us don't even have possession of our cans yet, it seems like a bait and switch.

I agree 100%... as a first time Griffin purchaser I can say this has really soured my impression of the ethics of the entire company. I was actually looking forward to this can for my SOCOM.... now, not so much

 

[22-Dasher]

Upgrades are going to be free?

 

[BurnOut]

While I get that you guys with the Bushwhacker v1 cans are pissed, I don't know that it's fair to imply that Griffin intentionally used the early adopters as Guinea pigs or knew from day one that improvements were in the pipeline; are any of you familiar with the concept of kaizen/continuous improvement? Sometimes (read: oftentimes), improvements aren't apparent until a thing is in production. Additionally, no matter how much testing and design tweaking goes on before the initial product release, there has to be a line drawn in the sand to freeze the design and go into production, otherwise, you get a product that never gets past the design phase... but that doesn't mean that the design is forever frozen and development stops.

Let me ask this... let's say for the sake of argument that Griffin released the Bushwhacker v1 cans and continued development work like any good company does. Let's say that they found improvements that could be made within, say, 9 months of the initial product release. Would you rather they release those improvements at that time, or sit on them for a couple years, selling a product that they could improve, but are choosing not to? Something else to consider... it's possible that something changed in regard to manufacturing capability that allowed these improvements to be made; maybe they purchased a new machine, or a supplier did, or something of that nature.

I have no dog in this fight; I don't own any Griffin products (it's not like I've avoided them; I just haven't purchased any), and I damn sure don't have any inside knowledge regarding the goings on of the company... I just think that before people get their nuts in a knot and go all Internet on them, it'd be fair to give them the benefit of the doubt, and to see what they're willing to do, re: upgrading Bushwhacker v1 owners to the v2 guts.

 

[Viper1973]

While I get that you guys with the Bushwhacker v1 cans are pissed, I don't know that it's fair to imply that Griffin intentionally used the early adopters as Guinea pigs or knew from day one that improvements were in the pipeline; are any of you familiar with the concept of kaizen/continuous improvement? Sometimes (read: oftentimes), improvements aren't apparent until a thing is in production. Additionally, no matter how much testing and design tweaking goes on before the initial product release, there has to be a line drawn in the sand to freeze the design and go into production, otherwise, you get a product that never gets past the design phase... but that doesn't mean that the design is forever frozen and development stops.

Let me ask this... let's say for the sake of argument that Griffin released the Bushwhacker v1 cans and continued development work like any good company does. Let's say that they found improvements that could be made within, say, 9 months of the initial product release. Would you rather they release those improvements at that time, or sit on them for a couple years, selling a product that they could improve, but are choosing not to? Something else to consider... it's possible that something changed in regard to manufacturing capability that allowed these improvements to be made; maybe they purchased a new machine, or a supplier did, or something of that nature.

I have no dog in this fight; I don't own any Griffin products (it's not like I've avoided them; I just haven't purchased any), and I damn sure don't have any inside knowledge regarding the goings on of the company... I just think that before people get their nuts in a knot and go all Internet on them, it'd be fair to give them the benefit of the doubt, and to see what they're willing to do, re: upgrading Bushwhacker v1 owners to the v2 guts.

The point is that not even 600 units in they changed streams. Whatever their reason, there's no arguing the optics from the customer or even a prospective customer's position look terrible.

I hope that wasn't the intent ... However, a lot depends on how they decide to treat those of us who gave them and their product a shot.

This was billed as their ‘flagship’ product and is among the most expensive in their portfolio.

 

[stiletto raggio]

 

[stiletto raggio]

As I just posted, Gen 1s are already being sold at a discount as "New/Old Stock."

 

[BurnOut]

View attachment 7364020

Am I missing something? The suppressor in this ad isn't even made by Griffin.

 

[Viper1973]

Am I missing something? The suppressor in this ad isn't even made by Griffin.

I think siletto raggio grabbed the wrong image from Gunbroker. There was a Bushwhacker on there about two hours ago that was being sold as new discontinued for like $550. There's another being sold with only like 300 rounds down the pipe.

 

[stiletto raggio]

Yep. That's what happens when you have too many tabs open. I will see if I can find the listing.

 

[FishinGuns]

I have Griffin stuff, so go ahead and discount my thoughts completely, but they came out with a product that people decided to buy without a gun to their head (presumably...), Griffin figured out a better mousetrap and revised it, and now you guys think they should just upgrade you for free to appease those who bought the first gen? Would you feel better if they just sat on the new revision a little longer for the sake of your feelings?

GTFO and go start your own suppressor business if you want things your way? If you’ve been in the suppressor game long enough, especially the last 5 years, new technology and product revisions happen all the time. It’s takes a year’ish to get your stuff and something is usually new by the time you get your can. It’s called I N N O V A T I O N. It happens (thankfully!). That’s just something you have to accept when it comes to cans. It’s BS to demand a free upgrade if your can is working 100%. That’s what you decided to buy at the time. If they can figure out how to upgrade your suppressor to the current gen at a cost to you, that’s absolutely acceptable and fair. If it can’t be retrofit, sell it and buy the new version, if your so soured. Or buy a different can all together. Jeebus...

I can’t believe I just read all that whining. I remember my first can...

 

[Viper1973]

There's a distinct difference in buying an entry level product vs buying what they referred to repeatedly as their 'flagship' product - at full price.
Some of us don't have limitless disposable income and actually expect our purchases to have some longevity in the product lifecycle which is a reasonable expectation.

I never said the upgrade, refit or whatever you want to call it should be free but it should be an inexpensive upgrade. The parts they'd be getting back are actually more expensive materials that what they're replacing with anyway.

Because a manufacturer didn't do all their homework and have their ducks in a row before spinning up production isn't the customers fault.
Now what matters is how they intend to address the mess and the bad optics of the situation they caused. This is where a company can shine and make customers for life or risk losing them to their competitors forever.

I hope they can pull together a reasonable upgrade. However, they should have already had plans, pricing, etc. on exactly how to do that ready when the G2 launched because you'd have to be blind not to think it wouldn't bite you in the butt this soon into the product lifecycle.

 

[FishinGuns]

I think you should start your own company and show us all how it’s done.

 

[Viper1973]

Griffin asked for questions and feedback... There are 569 of us who have a G1 who I can guarantee care what their response is on this. Heaven forbid two of us are vocal and actually tell them truthfully what we think.

 

[NWnewguy]

I usually don't get involved in these feces slinging threads but I feel like there is something to be said here.

For what it's worth, I have four GA cans, with a BW46 still in a ATF holding pattern. I ordered the BW46 in February. In June, it's announced that there is a major improvement in the Gen2 that will be available posthaste. That timeline seems a little tight for honest dealing, but perhaps it's possible.

The surprising thing to me is that there is an upgraded version available in less than six months from when the original was released. I wouldn't think that most companies wouldn't even be re-visiting a design that close after a release. It would seem, although I have no knowledge of this, that Gen1 versions were sold at initial release, while an improved version was under development. Now, I won't argue that this happens all the time in the tech sector, where people change phones and laptops more often than they change underwear, but in the "buy it for life" world of suppressors, that seems tight.

It would be nice if the ATF could stamp some applications and I could tell you all what I thought of the sound of the Gen1 BW46, but that is probably still months away. If I had to guess, I will be perfectly happy with it's performance. However, anyone that would suggest that the optics aren't bad for an upgrade of the same can before anyone that bought the first gen has approvals, is a little out to lunch. No one will argue that innovation is a good thing and it should be promoted, but selling something that you know is going to be "new, old stock" is a bit different.

All that to say that it will be interesting to see what Griffin Armament decides to do about this. We certainly haven't heard much from them on this topic at this point. They are certainly under no obligation to do anything. I paid my money for a product that I was happy with at the time. If they do nothing, I will probably still be happy with what I have. I like most other people I would imagine, that were early adopters will probably be a little sour and choose to spend our money somewhere else next time. I would think that an upgrade to the next gen baffles at somewhere near cost would be a good compromise. And of course that's assuming that the next gen baffles will still sound better in the first gen tube body.

I really like Griffin Armament products and have been happy with all of my purchases from them. I even have some of their optics mounts and think they are amazing at a really good price point. I appreciate that they are innovating and upgrading and wouldn't want them to slow that down. My guess is that they will come out with a plan to make everyone (ok, not everyone, some people are just A$$ holes and can't be pleased) happy.

 

[FishinGuns]

[Viper] Truthfully, I don’t think you have a clue how things work in real life.

Do you really think they sand bagged you? You really think they purposefully held back the current technology thinking they could up-sell after the fact?

Really!?!

If your suppressor works as advertised when you purchased it, you have ZERO to complain about. You got exactly what you bought.

They figured new things out and brought them to market and your pissing and moaning that it was too short of time between when you decided to buy the first gen and the current gen II. Who are you to say it was too short of time? You bought a can from them. That doesn’t make you a stakeholder within the company. It makes you a consumer. That’s it.

New materials become available. New designs happen. New manufacturing processes integrate. That’s how manufacturing progresses in the real world. This ain’t CHOP, bro...

 

[FishinGuns]

Honestly guys, I’m speechless. This unneeded butthurt is unfair.

If your can doesn’t perform as advertised, that’s one thing. Flaming a company for bettering their product, on their own timeline, is juvenile.

 

[CaroleBaskin]

@FishinGuns this is obviously to big of an improvement too soon. These people haven't even taken posession of their cans yet. I have no dog in this fight, but clearly this is shady and your a piece of shit. You stated your opinion, move along.

 

[Viper1973]

@FishinGuns this is obviously to big of an improvement too soon. These people haven't even taken posession of their cans yet. I have no dog in this fight, but clearly this is shady and your a piece of shit. You stated your opinion, move along.

Well said!

They asked for feedback. Ball’s now in their court.
The ignore button is a wonderful thing... I’m done with the troll.

 

[Huskydriver]

Bahaha this thread is getting priceless....Amazes me how little people research companies before buying from them....

Pro tip friends don't let friends but Q, or Griffin or none name brand cans unless you are willing to risk getting 0 support later on in life. If your cool with the risk... Buy away and most of the time you will be fine.

With that said.... welcome to the NFA game children. There is always risk of getting an outdated design in the NFA game . You buy the best muffler you can from the best company if your doing a form 4 supressor and know when you buy it by the time you take possession of said can it's already potentially outclassed by a new latest and greatest.

 

[FishinGuns]

With that said.... welcome to the NFA game children. There is always risk of getting an outdated design in the NFA game . You buy the best muffler you can from the best company if your doing a form 4 supressor and know when you buy it by the time you take possession of said can it's already potentially outclassed by a new latest and greatest.

This ^ is what I’ve been saying all along. I realize since I own Griffin stuff, my comments on here mean nothing.

But that’s still what I said earlier in the thread. It’s just how the NFA game goes. Even within the same company producing cans. Even if it’s another company, other than Griffin Armament. If this situation causes butthurt, they ain’t ready to NFA.

 

[NWnewguy]

I've been in the NFA game for a little while now and with over 20 cans, I can't say that I've ever had an initial release can still on hold when a new version of the same exact can is released. Especially when the can I have is a two digit serial number. Obviously, it's routine to still be on hold and another company comes out with a product that makes my can on hold obsolete. That happens all the time. I was trying to think of another example of this happening and I can't think of one. It's a bit hard to search for though, so I'm not saying for sure it's unprecedented, but it's damn rare.

As far as not buying GA, I like their products and I think they will be around to help long after a lot of other companies have gone away. They also still support products that they made a decade ago. Some companies don't support cans they made 3 years ago. I also like the sound of their cans. I guess I'm the odd guy on here that always picks up either a GA can or an Omega over my Ultra 7 30cal. I just like the sound more and I think they mitigate recoil better. I guess that's why they make plenty of choices.

 

[alamo5000]

I haven't purchased one of these cans yet but I have a few suppressors. This thread made me a bit curious so I looked and found specs for the Gen1 vs Gen2 and basically Gen1 cans are .5 inches longer than Gen2 cans.

"This baffle system provides reduced back pressure, greater structural strength, higher heat resistance for enhanced durability, and longer service life, as well as 5-7db sound pressure level drops vs the original version."

Ultimately the only thing Gen1 buyers 'lose out on' is that .5 inch length difference because the newly designed baffles still work with the Gen1 cans. True it might be a pain in the ass to fedex your can and a copy of your form 4 to Griffin and have it back less than a week later...but at least that's an option. If it weren't for NFA and ATF BS regulations they could otherwise just mail you some new baffles--but you would still have to unscrew that front cap.

However since no one is interested in going to prison--you have to mail your can to them to do a 3 minute job on it. They don't need to cut it and re-weld it or any of that. Unscrew the cap, replace the baffles, put the cap back on and fedex it back to you.

Cost of doing that--who knows--and I get it, but it's not the end of the world. The way the whole thing was designed from the get go allows for ease in servicing cans (for whatever reason).

The people that ultimately are kind of screwed are those people who bought cans from those companies that no longer exist. They have ZERO options. While yes it is a pain in the ass to drop off a box to the UPS store, but I am pretty sure Griffin will try to make the process as painless as possible. The fact remains though that existing users have access to these upgrades without going through another NFA wait time.

Hell, I bought a Toyota truck before and had to drive 50 miles each way to get 'a problem' fixed because some asshole decided to sue over the shape and design of the floor mats. I had to take off work and spend a whole day screwing around because of that. Did I like it? Nope. Was it fair to me? No. But I just decided oh well, I guess it's worth it for me to get new floor mats.

On balance there is definitely 'feelings' involved... but there is also cold hard factual information. You can get the upgrades without another 9 month or year long wait. They have not said how much it would cost---if anything---so as for right now people are getting bent out of shape without knowing or taking into account the whole story.

 

[Viper1973]

right now people are getting bent out of shape without knowing or taking into account the whole story.

Right there is the heart of the issue.... we’re not getting the full story. Everywhere they’ve posted making their announcement the upgrade question gets a guarded response or skipped entirely, Including on their own users group. (If you notice they went silent here when pushed for answers. That’s what they done everywhere so far.)

My concern is they either promise and don’t deliver an upgrade - they wouldn’t be the first company to do that... or .... price the upgrade to where it’d be idiotic to pay to have it done just to discourage folks from wanting it In the first place.

Even their dealers and distributors can’t get answers... Mine and his distributor have tried multiple times since the announcement was made with zero success. This only adds to concern and frustration.

I appreciate that several folks here have brand loyalty and respect that. But for some of us who are just purchasing their first products from a brand what they do and how they do it matters. I‘m not anti-Griffin by any means... I love their ATM pistol barrels which is why I went with the Bushwhacker for my SOCOM in the first place. Hopefully they come back with some detailed answers.

 

[alamo5000]

Right there is the heart of the issue.... we’re not getting the full story. Everywhere they’ve posted making their announcement the upgrade question gets a guarded response or skipped entirely, Including on their own users group. (If you notice they went silent here when pushed for answers. That’s what they done everywhere so far.)

My concern is they either promise and don’t deliver an upgrade - they wouldn’t be the first company to do that... or .... price the upgrade to where it’d be idiotic to pay to have it done just to discourage folks from wanting it In the first place.

Even their dealers and distributors can’t get answers... Mine and his distributor have tried multiple times since the announcement was made with zero success. This only adds to concern and frustration.

I appreciate that several folks here have brand loyalty and respect that. But for some of us who are just purchasing their first products from a brand what they do and how they do it matters. I‘m not anti-Griffin by any means... I love their ATM pistol barrels which is why I went with the Bushwhacker for my SOCOM in the first place. Hopefully they come back with some detailed answers.

While I do own Griffin suppressors I am not approaching it at all from that angle. It wouldn't matter if it's Rugged, Dead Air, or whoever. I am merely pushing back a little in a sense of fairness to the company(ies). I never have/don't work with or for Griffin in any way.

Specifically regarding Griffin a couple of years ago they announced to the public that they were going to move their entire shop to a new location. And in that mix the QD adapters for the Checkmate cans went out of stock... there were a number of people online having a fit and (falsely) saying that Griffin had abandoned it's legacy products etc. Nothing regarding that could have been farther from the truth. Ultimately it was all remedied.

With this though let's step back and take a look at what all is going on... the vast majority of those cans cannot (even if the owners wanted to) be sent back for the upgrade (as of right now because the transfer times involved etc)...so there is time. Next it takes a lot of planning to run a company like that. They probably have production schedules 2-3 months out (or whatever that might be)...and the fact is they do have different people at varying levels and departments. I would imagine it's like herding cats. You should try it some time.

The last thing they should have is Joe from marketing saying online 'we will have this'...but then Tim from engineering says 'Uh, bro, no we won't'. If they have 2-3 or more different people answering emails, posting on forums, making videos, or whatever, all of that is 'public communication'. It takes about 10 seconds for an email that was intended to be to a single person to be posted somewhere like Sniper's Hide and cause a huge stink.

I know a few years back I ordered something non suppressor related and the FNG just made some shit up on the spot and gave me wrong information. They ended up sending the completely wrong thing. It was easily remedied. They sent me the RIGHT thing before I even had an RMA for the wrong thing. That said I bitched a little (in private) so I can understand how they would tell staff... "Wait! Don't make shit up. We will have a company meeting once a week and we can bring that up to figure out what it will look like and who should say what to whom".

That way they don't have people getting 3 different stories and get skewered online for that. As of this post it hasn't even been a full week since the original post was made with a major holiday thrown in there. All I am saying is to be reasonable. They will take care of you. That's been my experience in the 5ish years of owning this or that wigit or suppressor or whatever from them.

It might not be right this second, but I am confident they will take care of you. Reading this online from someone not involved in any way in the transaction it seems a little bit like some posters here have unrealistic expectations and are not giving them the benefit of the doubt or really even a fair chance to get things done. That's the whole (and pretty much main) reason why I even chimed in here.

Again, it doesn't matter what company it is. In context please give them a chance to get their stuff straight before losing your cool.

 

[TxWelder35]

Based on not having any answers yet, It’s probably fair to say the how to deal with gen 1 owners probably went over their heads and didn’t think much about it before release. Probably currently trying to figure out a solution.

Let’s give them a minute to get their ducks in a row before the flaming starts. They weren’t expecting a dumpster fire.

 

[Distaste]

I don't have any skin in this game, I actually decided against getting a GA supressor in favor of YH. I understand the buyers remorse given a product came out so soon, but you got what you paid for. You decided that Gen 1 performance was worth the price and you paid it. GA on top of your initial purchase has a path for upgrades so YOU have access to the new tech and you're angry about this? Once again they didn't have to offer upgrades, you bought Gen 1 based on it's performance and you're getting what you paid for, the gen 2 doesn't change that unless the Gen 1 promised to be the best for at least a year or that there wouldn't be a gen2. The only thing you can take issue with GA is whether the Gen 1 does what it advertised. There is a path to upgrade coming, just be a little patient and should that path be excessively costly or doesn't materialize then you can be angry.


Maybe it's because I have decades of building computers under my belt that this seems fine to me, but in the PC world 6 months is an absolute guarantee whatever you bought is outdated. I remember 6 years ago I bought a graphics card(gtx470) the day it released and 3 months later there was a new line of graphics cards(gtx570) to replace them. The model I bought ran hot and used a lot of power but I knew that upon buying it, I wasn't mad 3 months later when the company put out a card that tamed those issues. There is always something better coming, you can either keep perpetually waiting or buy what you need when you need it.

 

[SRPowah]

I almost pulled the trigger on a TBAC 338, but decided to wait until my next paycheck. The SR version was released 2 days later. Shit happens, and you never know what side you will be on. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if stuck with the original, but I understand how some need to have the best.

I will be honest, first impressions soured me on GA because they didn't have a plan ready for the 1st Gen owners. The 1st gen guys bought what they bought, but a ready plan for them would of went a long ways. The fact that they are quiet means this will either be remedied, or they will bring hell upon themselves for a couples years until it all blows over. The NFA world, while expanding, is still a small world. I am interested to see how this plays out, as one of their products does interest me. Some respect to GA for having the balls to release an update so soon. lol We all want the best.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Pro tip friends don't let friends but Q, or Griffin or none name brand cans unless you are willing to risk getting 0 support later on in life.

This

 

[Viper1973]

I almost pulled the trigger on a TBAC 338, but decided to wait until my next paycheck. The SR version was released 2 days later. Shit happens, and you never know what side you will be on. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if stuck with the original, but I understand how some need to have the best.

That situation was entirely different in several respects though... The Ultra 338 wasn't just newly released and from day one it was made clear that the Ultra 338 wasn't being discontinued and that the 338 SR was being launched to meet additional user requirements. I own two Ultra 338's and appreciated how Zak and Ray handle things. They're always answering customer questions directly and will answer questions straight up without hesitation or BS. You couldn't ask for better support. If anything I think they've spoiled many of us.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Glad when I was in the market for a small/compact large bore can last year I went with the ol’ steady eddie SilencerCo HYBRID to join my Vers 458. Thought long and hard about getting the bushwhacker but I just can’t bring myself to buy GA products

 

[Gtscotty]

While that was a short upgrade cycle, this kind of thing just happens with NFA. The Omega made my Saker obsolete a few months after I filled out the paperwork, and By the time my DA Nomad got out of jail there had already been a few design changes, at least one of which I would have really liked on my can. There's no upgrade path for the welded Nomad, but GA has already stated (I believe on ARFCOM) that there will be an upgrade program for the Gen 1 Bushmaster 46.

Basically you'll get what you paid for, which is a can that meters pretty similarly to the Hybrid, but can be disassembled. If it's worth it to you to pay for the upgrade to the new baffle design, you will be able to. That seems pretty fair, and if I had a Gen 1 Bushmaster it would probably be worth a few hundred bucks to me to have it upgraded to the new hotness without another god-awful wait, but if it's not, you still have exactly what you paid for.

 

[CaroleBaskin]

Not trying to take anything from you, but did those small "missed out" design changes to your Nomad include a 7db reduction? Because I bet your mindset along with just about every nomad buyer would be a little different if it did. I no way mean any disrespect to you, it's just what I feel is a huge arguement point to all this. These guys ordering this particular can have a right to be a little pissed off. I ordered a Nomad L back in February and I'd be done with DA if they did me like that before I or basically anyone else even had our can, plain and simple. I understand small changes and better weld designs. But a 7db reduction.. how does that performance increase just pop out of some builders ass a few short months down the road. Bad R&D or maybe that's just a very rushed minimally tested original product. Or worse if they knew they had something better after making a bunch of initial 1st run parts. And instead of wasting them, they decide to pawn them off on the first wave of suckers /Buyers. This looks bad to me. I hope GA makes it right. But with GA still responding to this announcement thread over on Arfcom and not here, its making them look real bad.

 

[FishinGuns]

The only way this could honestly look bad, is if they had db claims for Gen I, the Gen 1’s wouldn’t meter as advertised, and they then released Gen II that performed as advertised for Gen I. THAT would look bad. THAT would be shitty of them. But that’s NOT that case from any evidence presented, or what they’ve advertised between Gen I and Gen II.

This butthurt is SJW bs in my book. Everyone is looking to be a victim of something these days.

They flat out said there will be a path to upgrade. That is not owed to any Gen I owner in any way. Be friggen happy they’re giving you the option! You could’ve bought a SiCo, had similar performance to the GA Gen I, and no path to upgrade... instead GA is going to figure out an upgrade for you. But you piss and moan regardless.

Damn I’m glad I’m not a manufacturer these days! This is brutal. I honestly think higher of GA for putting up with your whiny asses.

 

[Gtscotty]

Not trying to take anything from you, but did those small "missed out" design changes to your Nomad include a 7db reduction? Because I bet your mindset along with just about every nomad buyer would be a little different if it did. I no way mean any disrespect to you, it's just what I feel is a huge arguement point to all this. These guys ordering this particular can have a right to be a little pissed off. I ordered a Nomad L back in February and I'd be done with DA if they did me like that before I or basically anyone else even had our can, plain and simple. I understand small changes and better weld designs. But a 7db reduction.. how does that performance increase just pop out of some builders ass a few short months down the road. Bad R&D or maybe that's just a very rushed minimally tested original product. Or worse if they knew they had something better after making a bunch of initial 1st run parts. And instead of wasting them, they decide to pawn them off on the first wave of suckers /Buyers. This looks bad to me. I hope GA makes it right. But with GA still responding to this announcement thread over on Arfcom and not here, its making them look real bad.

They included a reinforced design for the spanner slot area, which is needed for effective mount changes without a clamping block. The spanner slots on my older design are stripping out and according to DA can't be repaired. They also changed the baffles to match the new design in the Nomad L, which supposedly helped performance, but I don't think they've published by how much. None of that can be changed and it just is what it is, I bought my Nomad on it's published merits at the time. I can't expect the company to stand still, but I probably will put off purchases of new DA cans in the future until they have been out a while and i'm sure i'm not buying the beta version. I certainly wouldn't blame someone for doing the same with new GA cans (or really any manufacturer).

It's hard for me to feel real bad for Bushwhacker owners who will be able to pay some minor fee, wait like a week and have the new hotness in their hands even though they were happy enough with how the original Bushwhacker metered (GA put out testing videos early on) to buy one. If I want to get the latest baffles and the spanner slots that don't strip out on my Nomad, I have to buy a new Nomad and sit through the damned wait again.

From the thread over on ARFCOM it sounds like Griffin worked out the new baffle design after they had started Bushwhacker production. At that point they can either keep selling the older slightly less efficient design for a year or two then roll out the new more efficient design as the latest, greatest Gen 2 (which is probably what I would have done) or they can upgrade the current design right away with a mid-cycle update increasing the value of their product and putting it squarely ahead of the competition. Neither of these options are unethical in my opinion, and the fact that GA is bothering to make the effort to offer upgrade paths to existing owners is actually giving me more of a warm fuzzy about their products for my future buys.

 

[Viper1973]

Other manufacturers don’t usually need to offer upgrade paths because they fully vet their designs and have all of their ducks in a row before spinning up production in the first place. They know that most NFA items are till death do you part purchases and normally want repeat and happy customers.

If there is ANY other manufacturer that has launched and discontinued a can within just a couple months - before anyone’s stamps could have even cleared - I sure can’t find any sign of it anywhere. Other than when a manufacturer has gone out of business entirely.

It’s also amazing as soon as you start asking pointed questions - crickets.

 

[FishinGuns]

Have you called and talked with them?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

In this thread we see people new to the silencer game. Sheesh.

 

[Viper1973]

Have you called and talked with them?

For the record... Yes.
As soon as you start asking questions you immediately get the 'we'll have to have someone call you back' and that's the end of it. They never respond. Same thing they do online when you start asking questions they want to avoid answering.

My dealer and his distributor (who were blindsided by this announcement) also both tried as well and met with the same fate. They can't get answers either. My dealer alone has four of us with G1's in ATF jail.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Jesus Christ

 

[bcrich]

Well this sucks balls !! I knew I should have gotten another thunderbeast can

 

[GRIFFIN_ARMAMENT]

*UPDATE*

I brought up the concerns noted in this thread and I want to disclose what we are doing.

#1 thanks to the gen 1 buyers. It was a phenomenal can that was performing at the top of the market in the big bore universal class the day it came out, which we are assuming is why the initial production run sold out in 2 weeks. Those end users will have a really cool product that lasts a lifetime and is supported hopefully by the owners children (who haven’t cleaned out any machine chip pans yet... so that generational take over is yet to be decided). Regardless it’s an amazing can.

#2 the pricing for the baffle “upgrade” was set at a bean counter meeting at 199.95msrp and includes return shipping. We will be building a product page for this in the coming weeks and will be listing all applicable information to users who are curious.
#3 Gen 1 users don’t need to upgrade and if it was my suppressor I wouldn’t. Use the cans they are great. We have made great memories with the Gen 1 production unit #0001. Shoot thousands of rounds through your can use it for a few years then upgrade when they are wearing out (if you shoot that much) if you don’t they will last you a lifetime. If you are the tip of the spear and need the latest and greatest the new stack is an improvement but it’s not needed for your Gen 1 unit to work and satisfy as advertised.
I know there’s a certain satisfaction in having the latest and greatest but there are guys flying 50 year old prop planes and having more fun than most of us.
Thanks again you guys are great. We do listen and take criticism to heart. But I want to be clear. There are companies who would kill to have the Gen 1 cans we built in their lineup, but they don’t. They are wicked cans. The Gen 2 is just better.

 

[FishinGuns]

For the record... Yes.
As soon as you start asking questions you immediately get the 'we'll have to have someone call you back' and that's the end of it. They never respond. Same thing they do online when you start asking questions they want to avoid answering.

My dealer and his distributor (who were blindsided by this announcement) also both tried as well and met with the same fate. They can't get answers either. My dealer alone has four of us with G1's in ATF jail.

Sounds like they dodged a couple bullets, then...

And by the post above this one, sounds like they are making some headway on your upgrade. Be happy!

 

[Viper1973]

*UPDATE*

I brought up the concerns noted in this thread and I want to disclose what we are doing.

#1 thanks to the gen 1 buyers. It was a phenomenal can that was performing at the top of the market in the big bore universal class the day it came out, which we are assuming is why the initial production run sold out in 2 weeks. Those end users will have a really cool product that lasts a lifetime and is supported hopefully by the owners children (who haven’t cleaned out any machine chip pans yet... so that generational take over is yet to be decided). Regardless it’s an amazing can.

#2 the pricing for the baffle “upgrade” was set at a bean counter meeting at 199.95msrp and includes return shipping. We will be building a product page for this in the coming weeks and will be listing all applicable information to users who are curious.
#3 Gen 1 users don’t need to upgrade and if it was my suppressor I wouldn’t. Use the cans they are great. We have made great memories with the Gen 1 production unit #0001. Shoot thousands of rounds through your can use it for a few years then upgrade when they are wearing out (if you shoot that much) if you don’t they will last you a lifetime. If you are the tip of the spear and need the latest and greatest the new stack is an improvement but it’s not needed for your Gen 1 unit to work and satisfy as advertised.
I know there’s a certain satisfaction in having the latest and greatest but there are guys flying 50 year old prop planes and having more fun than most of us.
Thanks again you guys are great. We do listen and take criticism to heart. But I want to be clear. There are companies who would kill to have the Gen 1 cans we built in their lineup, but they don’t. They are wicked cans. The Gen 2 is just better.

Folks who fly a 50 year old prop plane usually intend on buying a 50 year old prop plane... not a modern jet and then learning it has propellers

That is actually great news and much more than us early adopters expected given how this whole thing rolled out. Thank you for actually giving us some specific answers. I look forward to seeing the specifics and process information once you get it posted to your website.