New Tikka T3X CTR...non 1" moa

[Diverr13]

Got excited to finally shoot my new 6.5 Creedmoor after the 10 day waiting period (yes Cali). In hindsight, I wish I could've used those 10 days to talk with Tikka regarding their 1" moa "garauntee".
Set up: Tikka t3x ctr 6.5 creedmoor, Vortex HD 5x20, Seekins Precision rings.
First 5 shots I got the rifle within 10" of the quarter sized target. Next 3 shots I walked towards the target. Thats when I noticed something was up. I stopped. Let the barrel cool completely. Shot a 3 shot group. 2 of the shots were low 4" and 2" right of target (and 1.5" apart from each other). 3rd shot was high 3" dead center of target.

I rechecked all screws on scope,rings,mount. Good to go. Next I checked the screws on the stock. Good to go. Next I got a dollar bill and checked the free float of the barrel. After multiple attempts, the bill would stop 3.25" from the reciever. Meaning the bill was wedged tight and was about to rip.

First break in shots were with Hornady 120gr GMX Full Boar. This next group I tried after the free floating experiment. Was Hornady 120gmx Superformance. 3 shot group. A almost perfect 3" triangle. 2 holes were 3" apart, the 3rd was 2.75" from the other 2. I loaded things up and headed home after. Gun has 13 shots thru it only.

Any guesses?
(Yes Im familar with shooting and do reloading. Guns of choice are .204-zeroed at 100 yards,shoots a clover. My 338 Lupua-zeroed at 200 yards,300 gr Scenars using H1000 at 2,750fps. Shoots a clover as well).

 

[snarkscarbine]

Check it with a load that's known to shoot well. Either of the Hornady ELD 140/143 loads or the Prime 130 should give you a good baseline.

 

[FireShooter]

Mine shot half moa with the 147 eldm hornady factory loads. Try some of those if you can. They shot the best groups in my CTR.

 

[Diverr13]

Ive never owned a Tikka before. But my barrel does not appear to be free floating. Unless thats the way they are. Tikka owners chime in.

Im about to thicken the plot a little. I purchased this rifle due to #1. All the great reviews as a mid range hunting rifle. #2. All the loaded up ammo available with load data available. #3. I want to do 0 reloading with this rifle. Keep things simple with loaded up, lead free ammo box ammo.

Issue Im becoming aware of. #1. Options of available lead free ammo? Horrible. #2. Availability of that ammo to purchase? Yes, horrible...

I was able to find both of the ammo listed above, and purchased a few boxes of each. I know now boxed, lead free Hornady is no bueno. Next option is Barnes. But its not available. A distributor did find 2 boxes of Federal available. So I have to wait a week to try those.

 

[Winny94]

Try better ammo. I believe the guarantee only applies to match ammo.

 

[Mtleadfarmer]

Check your glass.

 

[Diverr13]

This evening I removed the scope and mounts. Re-leveled everything and torqued everything down to spec. Tomorrow Im going to buy a box of match grade,leaded ammo (not sure what grain yet). And go shoot a few groups at 100 yds. Time will tell

 

[blbennett1288]

I recall seeing a thread on here not too long ago with a similar issue. The guy sanded down/dremeled the areas of the stock that were making contact with the barrel and the groups tightened up.

 

[Lunchbox27]

I recall seeing a thread on here not too long ago with a similar issue. The guy sanded down/dremeled the areas of the stock that were making contact with the barrel and the groups tightened up.

+1

I had to do it to my T3X. Barrel made contact with stock 3" out from the receiver. Took some time with a dremel but it's solid now.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I don't see this being just from the barrel not floating. A lot of times a rifle will actually shoot great with pressure points and even when they don't it's not as much of a difference as you're experiencing.

It could be a combination of pressure points and ammo and/or something else. That Hornady Superformance ammo is absolutely terrible, I've never had a rifle to like any of that stuff and it's usually over pressured.

I I know you checked your mounts but did you verify with another optic? I'd check that too.

 

[winniethepooh]

Doesn't tikka guarantee a 3 shot moa group. I shot under an inch at 200 for 3 shots. Using 140eld

 

[vh20]

First 5 shots I got the rifle within 10" of the quarter sized target. Next 3 shots I walked towards the target. Thats when I noticed something was up. I stopped. Let the barrel cool completely. Shot a 3 shot group. 2 of the shots were low 4" and 2" right of target (and 1.5" apart from each other). 3rd shot was high 3" dead center of target.

There's something amiss with this statement. Five shots just to get within 10 in. of zero, and another three to "walk it in"? Once you have one shot on paper, the very next shot should be on zero if everything is working right. I've not seen many guns shoot that badly. I'd suspect scope, ammo (not really, but I have no experience with lead free stuff, so maybe), or shooter (no offense, but since we don't really know you...). Swap a scope off one of your other rigs that you trust. First thing I'd do (no question) right along with one of the match loads from Hornady (140, 147 ELD). If still no good, have a PROVEN shooter give it a go. Betcha one of the three fixes it. Otherwise, it needs to go back to Beretta because there would have to be something REALLY wrong with it.

Oh, and get it out of that freaking Lead Sled! If you're an experienced shooter, what are you using that thing for? It will not shoot as well in there as it will off a bipod and rear bag with proper technique.

 

[Mordamer]

I have inletted one of these stocks for a friend. It took 5 minutes with sand paper wrapped around a piece of 1-1/8" bar. Do that at least to gain confidence that the lack of free float is not causing your problems. I would bet it is your ammo.

 

[Delicatessen]

Have a ctr 260 20" similar issue with free float but it shot great even with that. Exactly what ammo are you using? I saw lead free but most suggested ammo would not be lead free. Did California pass that as a required, the lead free? Check to see if prime does a lead free if CA requires it. Mine shot well with 130,140,143, and 147 eld (most hand loads but some hornandy match all under 1/2 moa). If you eliminate ammo (try at least 2 match quality ones), scope, and shooter errors I would send it back.

 

[TexLuke]

The previous posts have pretty much covered it: the pressure point in the stock that's stopping your dollar bill is supposed to be there. All the t3's I've had (8 now) have them. Removing may tighten up groups but more likely would just reduce fliers. I'll bet that's not what's causing 3" groups. All 8 tikkas I've had would meet the 3 shot MOA guarantee. Some better than others but none of them patterned like a shotgun.

As Vh 20 said, it shouldn't take anywhere near 10-13 shots to zero your rifle at 100. IMO a lead sled is only good for bore sighting. It sounds like you need to address your equipment and technique before anything else. Use a bipod and rear bag or at a good front rest and rear bag.

And of course, as stated by pretty much everyone above, get some match ammo. Hornady eld and/or prime.

It looks like you have a nice optic and ring setup, I'll bet once you get this figured out you'll have a fine shooting rig there. Good luck

 

[Diverr13]

Thanks for the responses. Ill try and clarify interpretation on most of them.
1. I got this rifle for hunting and shooting lead free only ammo. Yes I fully agree with shooting match grade ammo! Wish I could.But itd be illegal for hunting.
2. I do not have an extra set of optics. The other 1k plus dollar scopes are on dedicated rifles.
3. The lead sled is for holding up my rifles while I clean/check screws etc. I had found some rifles like them,some dont in the past. All shots with this rifle were with bags front and rear.Letting the rifles harmonics do its natural thing.No bipod due to weight.
4. Sanding out the stock. I get that as well. Id prefer to not go that route yet. Due to voiding any Tikka...Sako...or Beretta warranties. If this rifle is missing a few quality control steps fresh outve the box? Id prefer to send it back to Tikka...or Beretta...or Sako lol.

I went shopping around today and didnt find any match grade boxed ammo unfortunately yet. Ypu guys know how it is. If a rifle shoots off due to mechanical reasons from the start? Itll always be there in back of your head. Later on if it misses? We think "awe heck, Is it me? Or whats up with this thing now"... I personally dont like to second guess my guns. I send them down the road.

 

[vh20]

I think most people are trying to tell you the gun is the least likely to be at fault. Am I misunderstanding, or are you just wanting to dump the gun without any attempt to find out? That's fine if that's what you want, but it only takes like five minutes to unbolt a scope in the rings from one rail from one of your other guns and torque it on another, then two shots to re zero. Also, go to Ammo Seek and you can find Hornady 140 eldm for about 22.00/box. Doesn't matter if you can't hunt with it. You just want to find out if your rifle is defective. (It just occurred to me that maybe you can't order ammo in CA?). Anyway, it makes no sense to send a rifle down the road when the ammo is the issue, because you'll still have the problem with the next one. There's just way too many CTRs shooting incredible groups out there to suspect it as the problem. Possible yes, but definitely least-likely. The Barnes ammo would seem to be a possible upgrade over the other non-tox loads, but again I don't have experience.

 

[Diverr13]

I appreciate everyones helpful advice and comments/opinions. I drove outve town and found a box of the Hornady 143's and 147's.
-5 shots,left grouping) The 143's grouped 2 touching holes. Then have three, 1.5" average spread flyers.
-12 shots,right grouping) The 147's would group 1 to 2 shots. Then have 2" to "3" flyers.
Cleaned the barrel. Fired a few rounds. Then tried grouping again. (Note: in the pic, not once did I change the windage or elevation on the scope from yesterday. Aiming center orange.)

Its a Catch 22. Its sounds counter productive to keep pouring ammo down range if its not shooting well correct? But... I had to know what different ammo would do? 4 different Hornady bullets have thus far,not been efficient in this rifle. So after the price of the rifle + the price of the scope + rings = basically 3 grand. Including over $60 in ammo down the barrel. I unfortunately do not have a rifle to use for deer hunting. Which starts in 3 weeks.

I realize its easier to discredit the shooter. Than it is to discredit the rifle/ammunition/optics. BUT. We all know nothing is made 100% perfect ...ever. Hence the reason for warranty and returns. Now do I try sanding the stock/sending it to a gun smith/letting another shooter take it out/switch out scopes (and waste time and ammo re-zeroing those rifles after)? Buy brass/different powders/different bullets reloading and go out multiple times shooting?In hopes it does fix any issues? Or,send it back and cut my losses on the ammo now...
My mindset going into this rifle was an easy 1" moa out of the box hunting rifle. I planned on using my OCD resources elsewhere,and not on a rifle for once haha.Trust me, Im bummed. I even threw away the rifle box because I had that much faith in the reviews and good things regarding this rifle. I appreciate everyones thoughtful and helpful advice. Which does work in most problematic applications.You guys have a wealth of knowledge. My responses arent intended to argue. Its more of me thinking outloud and sharing my view point as well. But we all know, sometimes a person just gets that "one" rifle. And we've all been down that road.
On a side note, I was really wanting a Bergara B14 HMR. But availability was a negative before season.So I got this Tikka.

 

[the_accuser]

Try a different ammo manufacture. Maybe your rifle doesn't like hornday bullets...lol I would grab a box of 130gr from Prime Ammo and probably a box of 139gr scenar ammo from Copper Creek.

 

[Captramrod01]

It'll take 3 min to free float that barrel. I would of done that before putting one round down the tube.

 

[jbmarshtx]

You could also check with Copper Creek if you want. They would likely load some lead free for you, and it would be very consistent.

 

[mikehotel]

Please free float the barrel, also, the trigger is adjustable.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Taking shooter error completely out of question, you have a bad rifle or a bad optic. It's as simple as that if you know you're doing your part. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you're shooting cloverleafs with a 338LM.

I don't care what anyone says, that pressure point in the stock can't be causing it to shoot that poorly. It shouldn't shoot that bad missing the damn action screws. Doing anything to it may also void your warranty if you need to send it back in. Also if somehow someway it is causing problems then that is Tikkas problem to address, not yours. It's advertised to shoot 1moa, not 1moa after you float it. Altering the rifle in any way if you have to send it back in would be foolish.

As to the rifle not liking the ammo, a rifle typically doesn't shoot that poorly even when it doesn't like the ammo the best. It can but it's unlikely and really only if it's not stabilizing the bullet.

I can understand if your other optics are on dedicated rifles but it's worth swapping one over to try. It would at least confirm whether it's the optic or not. Or you can send it back to Tikka now and if it's the rifle they'll know or if the rifle passes then you'll know it's the optic. You wouldn't get it back in time for hunting season though. If it is somehow the optic and you test now you'll save all that hassle.

 

[Dewey7271]

I'm thinking either the scope or mounts are off.
As mentioned above, take a known good scope off another rifle and reshoot.

 

[Dai Bando]

Vortex.

 

[Sendit6.5]

I'd be trying another scope. Dedicated or not, pull one off another rifle that shoots well and give it a try. It doesn't take long to zero a rifle if the scope is working properly. If it still doesn't shoot well, send it to Tikka and let them check it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steel+Killer]

If I were you I would do as others have said and pull a known good scope off another rifle and at least that would give you a solid answer if you need to send the rifle back. If you were shooting at a big enough target and your POI wasn't to far from your POA you wouldn't even need to change the scope zero as long as your POA is consistent just to see how it groups. I recently had a brand new Vortex Golden Eagle scope that wouldn't hold zero for shit I thought it was the rifle at first and then I decided to put a different scope on it to compare and it was a night and day difference. I was relieved to find out it was the scope and not the rifle.

 

[Brux]

FYI if you think its the rifle,do not do anything to alter the rifle. It will void the warranty if you do. Send it back and let them test it out.

 

[raven88]

my 20" barrel Tikka T3X CTR likes Factory Hornady 140 ELD-M's.....generally will put 5 into a dime at 100yd. But the speed is slow...... MV 2589...... another load that shoots that good for me is 41.5 gr of 4350 with a 130gr ELD-M..........but speed is still slow at 2600. I played with R17 and the 130 ELD-M and found it to give much better velocity (MV 2692 SD 12.7), but it was inconsistent I believe because of temp at the range on different days. Shooting with can on only speeds it up 20-25 fps. I wish I would have got the 24" barrel.

 

[delinquent pleb]

I saw similar problems with a CTR .260.
this bloke couldn't get it to group under 2". Had a gun smith look at it, ran a bore scope through it and found a little spur on the interior of the barrel on the rifling.

The solution was a back bore it off and recrown. Worked beautifully. Tikka make amazing gear but mistakes happen to the best.

Just check this before flinging the rifle completely.

 

[Bakwa]

Buy a cheap Ruger American and a Leupold VX-1 as a back up hunting rig in case you don't get sorted out before the season. Then figure out the Tikka. It will be worth it in the end. The CTR is a great rifle. The problem is probably something small. Figure it out, then shoot your potentially half MOA rifle to your heart's desire.

 

[sandwarrior]

1. Call Tikka or the U.S. Rep and find out what ammo to use.
2. If using that ammo will not give you the accuracy you want, send the rifle back. You might have to do some digging, but fighting this may not be worth your time.

 

[SubOptimal]

I know nothing about lead free ammo, I have 2 6.5 rifles, one in Creedmoor and one in x47 Lapua. With 120-140g bullets in factory match ammo, either will shoot 5 shot groups in <1/2" all day long. Both guns are full customs though assembled by well known gun smiths with top quality barrels. I'm no great shakes as a shooter but it is stupid easy with either gun.
With what you showed for accuracy, depending, of course, on your location and the ranges you are shooting at, I would expect that you can still take a deer sized animal with that gun. You'll still have time to sort the gun out later. You don't need minute of angle to kill deer at reasonable distances, save that crap for prairie dogs.
You are certainly going to want to sort out your point of aim and zero to see if you can find a consistent load for the gun and then stick with it.
One hint I will offer for you to pursue. When you torque the barreled action into the stock, sneak up on your torque values and observe what the tail of the action is doing while you snug up the front bolt. It really should not be moving very much at all, just kinda snuggling down into its recess in the stock. If it is picking up, find out where it is contacting the stock and pivoting. There may be a divot or hill in the action groove in the stock causing the action to get bent and be under strain. That crap could be the cause of your shotgun like patterns.
As ever, even though you are an experienced shooter and can shoot other rifles well, it doesn't mean that this gun fits you the way it needs to to allow a good, natural hold. Compare the guns you shoot well to this one and see where you are on comb height, length of pull and even angle of the grip. Our natural tendency is to fit ourselves to the gun rather than the gun to us, this results in all sorts of muscle strain that we don't really notice when mounting and shooting a new gun. Try mounting your gun with your eyes closed and seek minimal strain to do it. Now open your eyes, if you are not lined up on the scope and pointing the gun somewhere close to a distant target, you have a gun that does not fit you. Go do something about it.

 

[Biggy]

1. If you or a friend has another one, try a known good scope and mount / rings, properly mounted. If it shoots the same with the same and different ammo , go to #2 below.
2. Send it back to Tikka/ Beretta to check out and fix or replace under warranty.

 

[Chanonry]

Send it back . It is a mile off where it should be. Faffing about with ammo brands is not going to take that error out. It is worth trying out a scope you trust but after that its warranty time. I know lots of guys over here with Tikka's and that is not normal out of the box behaviour. Most of them are very very good. Sounds like you have been unlucky

 

[prieto9000]

I´ve had very bad results using hornady GMX line of bullets. I´ve used them in my sako 270 WSM and my custom 6.5 CM. 130gr for the 270 and 120 for the 6.5. Groups were pretty bad and MV was lower than expected for the load. I changed to 130 SST and 123 SST and it was like having new rifles. Acurracy was superb with both rifles and MV went up a lot. I´m not saying they´re bad bullets, I´m just saying they didn´t work on my rifles very well. Maybe your rifle doesn't like them either.

 

[SRPowah]

Curious to know what solution was found, or what decision was made. I have a feeling that the optic will end up being the issue.

 

[260284]

I would make sure your barrel is clean after shooting the GMX ammo. I have heard they can foul barrels pretty bad. Clean it with a good copper remover and try the match ammo again.

 

[Diverr13]

Thanks for all the input. I chose to send it back to Tikka first. UPS actually just came and got it. Tikka stated they will put it in a lead sled. Shoot 3 shots from "off their shelf ammo". Then go from there with their decision. They mentioned it was okay for the stock to have 1 point of contact near the chamber like that (their words,not mine). If I get the same rifle back? I'll then switch optics/rings/ammo. And problem solve step by step.
Either outcome ​​​​? Im looking for that rifle to be accurate obviously. With AVAILABLE lead free ammo would be even nicer. Ive been speaking with a few guys in the midwest who sell reloaded ammo. Theyve offered a few loads to try when I get the rifle back. Time will tell. Tikka stated a 2 week average turn around. It left town today. So Im guessing 4 weeks from now Ill have it. Back to lugging around my 338 Lupua for deer season haha. Thanks guys.

 

[EddieE]

would there be anything left of the deer?

 

[bulldog5477]

ive been having a similar problem with my 24" ctr. Tried almost every type of ammo i can get my hands on and still cant get it to hold an inch at a hundred. I'm gonna try cleaning it and put a different scope on it, but if it still doesn't shoot do you happen to have a number or email i can use to get ahold of tikka? Just not sure which one to use, tikka's or Berettas customer service?

 

[Biggy]

It is probably just the angle the Pic above was taken at, but to me the rear scope ring looks to have more of a gap on one side than the other.

 

[Ayoung1]

The 3 Tikkas I've shot have all been moa or less shooters. One is my personal 260 ctr shooting handloads, my brothers 270 wsm, and my brother in laws 223 varmint. They shoot factory ammo but they have several go to rounds that shoot lights out. I'd look at scope and rings and be sure they are torqued correctly before I would consider it being the rifle.

 

[kabarNC]

Did you have to remove the mirage band screw to mount the front ring all the way forward like that?

 

[Steel+Killer]

Wow I'm not criticizing your decision, but I just find it hard to believe that somebody would rather send a rifle back first rather than simply put another scope on it just to verify one against the other.....different strokes for different folks I guess....lol Good luck with the rifle either way!

 

[vh20]

It was probably just the angle the Pic above was taken at, but to me the rear scope ring looks to have more of a gap on one side than the other.

Good eye. It sure does look crooked in that pic, doesn't it? But I can't see how it really could be unless you were semi-comatose when you mounted it.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Good eye. It sure does look crooked in that pic, doesn't it? But I can't see how it really could be unless you were semi-comatose when you mounted it.

Also if it were me I would mount the front ring one slot back it looks like the front part of the ring is borderline running out of rail to grab.

 

[runningbear]

All of my Tikkas liked heavier bullets

 

[bulldog5477]

i swapped out the pst for the razor gen ii on mine and it was a night and day improvement! it went from barely holding 1.5" to under 0.5" on 5 different groups with factory ammo. Glad i tried that out before i sent it back or ditched it like i was planning! thanks for the advice on that one guys.

 

[Biggy]

All I know is if you send the rifle back, Tikka will figure it out and make it right if they are to blame. Any gunmaker can make something out of spec, but IMHO, in this case, the rifle would be the last place where I think the problem is.