New Tipped Matchking "TMK" loads from BHA??

C

Coltster

MSG
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 8, 2012
293
12
Augusta GA
#1
Below is taken from Black Hills new for 2014 loads section. Am I just that out of touch or has this been documented/tested somewhere? Was looking to see if BH has any 6.5Creed match loads coming out and stumbled on the new TMK 308&5.56, man I hope BH comes out with a match 140TMK 6.5CM!

"Black Hills Ammunition has added two new performance loadings, a 5.56mm 77 grain and a .308 175 grain for 2014. Both new loads feature the newly developed Sierra Tipped MatchKing™ bullets. The sleek polymer tip on these new MatchKings increases the Ballistic Coefficient (BC) to an incredible .420 on the 5.56mm 77 grain and .535 on the .308 175 grain. These impressive BCs provide improved external ballistics with less drop and wind drift. In addition, the new tip design improves terminal performance by providing more uniform on-target performance compared to standard open tip match bullets."

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#2
Doesn't sound like the bullets are going to be available for reloader so or in anyone else's ammo. I might have to get a couple of boxes to try out though...
 
#3
I question that high of a advertised BC. That is a significant increase in BC over OTM.

I have shot 168 A-Max's along side 168 OTM's. The A-max had about 2-3 MOA less drop at 800 Yards as I recall from memory. Same load, Same everything. The BC of the A-max was claimed at much higher. Those little plastic tips help, just not a incredible amount

Considering the 175 SMK has a BC of .496, picking up to .535 seems a bit on the high side.

As a aside, the science of calculating BC's is not as clear cut as it would seem. A lot of bullet manufacturers, Sierra included, have been know to "pad" their numbers to the higher side of reality.
 
#4
If they completely redesigned the bullet and added a tip to it the I would say those numbers are believable. The Hornady 178 BTHP has a BC of .533 so I'd say those number are attainable but I would agree, I doubt by simply adding a plastic tip is going to boost the BC that much. If you look closely at the Hornady 178 BTHP it almost has a VLD look to it compared to the 178 AMAX or 175 SMK...
 
#6
I think I saw some thing about this recently on the Guns & Ammo tv show. They had the head guy from Black Hills on and I thought he said it was initially for a small contract run but since they liked the bullet so much Sierra put it into full scale production. I cant remember if it were for a government contract or a private contractor contract. Did anyone else see the episode? A while back he was on a different episode talking about being better off not making bullets themselves, this was not the recent episode. Episode 4-2014 first aired 1-20-2014
 
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#7
GhostFace said:
If they completely redesigned the bullet and added a tip to it the I would say those numbers are believable. The Hornady 178 BTHP has a BC of .533 so I'd say those number are attainable but I would agree, I doubt by simply adding a plastic tip is going to boost the BC that much. If you look closely at the Hornady 178 BTHP it almost has a VLD look to it compared to the 178 AMAX or 175 SMK...
Click to expand...

Will have to wait and see if actual drop numbers match their claimed BC. What has my attention most is the potential terminal performance increase over the SMK. Advertising hype doesn't always match real world results but if there is even a small increase in terminal and slight BC advantage I think they have a winner on their hands! I am a big fan of the Amax so if this ends up similar then that's more options for multi use LR target/hunt load.

Now I just need BH to make these in 6.5CM 140 or 130gr match for about $28 a box. One can dream!
 
#8
Sierra did well in the Litz paper on advertised ballistic coefficients for the Air Force Academy. Hornady also did well.

He uses them in his book to talk about velocity dependent ballistic coefficients and presents them in a positive light. The drawings in the back of the book make it clear that the Hornady Amax is not just their HPBT with a plastic tip stuck in. It also looks like there are at least 2 generations of both the Amax and SMK. The 208 Amax is completely different than the rest of the 30 cal Amaxs. Tip radius, boat tail angle, form factor…

Scaling the advertised ballistic coefficients with the old ones give form factors just over 1.00. This is better than some of the old Amaxs but not as good as the newer designs. It’s definitely within the realm of possibility.

If those tipped 77 SMKs still fit in an AR magazine, it’ll be a pretty good step forward. It might be harder to get them to work with a 1:9 twist though. They seem like something Sierra would want to eventually make available.
 
#11
I believe there was a brief interview on Gun Talk this winter with one of the folks from Sierra, and he mentioned that they had this tipped SMK bullet coming out in .308. I do not recall when he said it would be available, but thought they were announcing at Shot Show.
 
#12
All the doubters here should take a step back and consider the source. Black Hills isn't some fly by night company that plans to make a few sales on hype and then dissapear, and this wouldn't be the first time they have pushed the envelope of possibility.

Regarding the claim of increased terminal performance, Black Hills does extensive in house gel block testing of all new rounds, and even current production rounds. If terminal performance is improved, I'm guessing Black Hills knows more about what they're talking about than we do.... we who haven't even SEEN these bullets, none the less tested them.

Some of the comments above would make a lot more sense if this was new ammo from the Brown Bear line.
 
#18
firemedic5586 said:
Hitting your local GS any day now..
Click to expand...
Not sure where you got your information at. But, at this time Sierra does not make them for a reloading component. If you have questions just ask Sierra themselves. They were only for BHA. Just as Sierra makes some bullets that are exclusive to other OEM's. And, if you need verification. Ask the VP of Sales and Marketing...that is where my information came from.
 
#20
Sierra usually gives you three BC numbers based on a range of velocities within the testing.

It's quite possible that BHA cherry picked the top velocity range, having the highest BC and is using this number.

Chris
 
#21
Chris,
You are absolutely correct that Sierra publishes a range of BCs for their bullets based on velocity. In the past, BHA has based the published MV of their 5.56MM cartridges on what is obtained from a 20" barrel. The published BC of .362 is right in line with the MV you would obtain in the 20" barrel with the MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge. IIRC, 2750 FPS is their published MV on that cartridge but I get 2825 FPS (5 shot average) from the 1x7.7 18" Krieger/CLE barrel with M4 can I normally shoot LR with. Conversely, BHA has based the MV of their .223 cartridges on what is obtained from a 24" barrel. This has caused some confusion with shooters looking at the MV numbers publish. Considering all above, I would fully expect that the published BC of .420 for the BHA 5.56MM Sierra 77gr. TSMK cartridge to be based on the MV obtained in a 20" barrel. Actual firing of the TMK cartridge over a chrono & at LR will tell us. The 77gr. Sierra TMK bullet itself is markedly different than the 77gr. SMK OTM w/c used in the 5.56MM MK 262 MOD 1 AA53 cartridge. Take a look:

Bottom line: Considering that the major consumer targeted for the 5.56MM 77gr. Sierra TMK cartridge is almost certainly DOD/military rifle teams, I do not believe that BHA would attempt to mislead them or us with a false BC. And in my experience with them, it would also be very much out-of-character for the BHA folks.



BHA 77gr. SMK OTM based MK 262 MOD 1 over BHA 5.56mm TMK: Fired from my 18" barrel, the TMK load should have just about 5 feet less drop at 1000yds. than the 77gr. SMK OTM based BHA MK 262 MOD 1 load. The TMK load is a game changer where mag-length ammunition is required/desired. Carl from BHA recently informed us that the 5.56MM 77gr. TMK cartridge primers are lacquer sealed but the bullets are not (same as the BHA MK 262 MOD 1 cartridge). Looking forward to testing/using it.

 
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