New to hosting competitions...any suggestions???

qcreek

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 13, 2013
8
0
I would like to host competitions at our ranch. You can look at our website for more information on our place, Q Creek Land & Livestock Company.

We are a 500,000 acre ranch in central Wyoming. I would like to start hosting sniper/tactical competitions. I am not new to the competition game (although I haven't competed in about 14 years) but I am new to hosting. Any suggestions on starting up would be greatly appreciated. You can contact me by email probably the easiest at [email protected].

Thank you for your help!
 
First let me thank you for offering to host a competition.

Email me, and I'll give you contact info to a couple of great people who host an annual comp. North of Gillette. They can give you some detailed info on insurance, liability waiver, release forms, etc.

To make your comp succesful, I think some of the things that would help is to schedule the event well in advance. And keep to that schedule. Having several comps through the Summer will also help with making it popular. One of the things that's important to most is, availability of housing, motel, hotel, camping site, etc. also availability of resturants, grocery stores, etc to your location.

I'm about four hours South of you, and would love to see something like a tactical / precision rifle match close to me.

Making the match challenging, somewhere in the middle between - a bunch of guys standing around banging steel, and a physical torture test is what most people would like, I beleive. The problem is there's an extreme spread of competitors that range from overweight/out of shape that just want to shoot targets, without being physically challenged, to people that are athletic or very competitive and want to be challenged both in shooting skills, but mentally and physically.

My suggestion is have something that's truely realistic in a tactical/field environment. Make it a timed event, start the clock at the start line, and stop the clock when the last shot is fired, or when you cross the finish line of the course, or that stage. Make the comp one where you not only have to find or locate the targets, but also range them. Throw in a few stages that require shooting from the top of a jagged rock to requiring engagement of a target that is not visible from prone, and it's up to the shooter/competitor to stand, sit, kneel, use sticks, or the branch of a nearby tree for support, as long as they stay in a 10' x 10' predetermined box. Have a few stages that don't allow the use of laser range finders to realistically challenge someone as if their laser range finder failed, or wasn't reliable because of snow or fog, which would require the use of their reticle to range. Award points on number of targets engaged/hit, and number of minutes finishing the course under the time limit, subtract points for targets not engaged/missed, and not finishing the course in the allowed amount of time.

Don't have stupid rules like you can't use a tripod, or a stool to sit on. I think if someone goes through the trouble to carry extra equipment and weight up a rocky trail for a mile, then they should be allowed to use it. Don't limit the caliber to 300WM, just use AR500 1/2" steel and if someone wants to use and carry a 27-lbs 338 Edge, and deal with the recoil on those stressed shooting positions let them, they won't always have the advantage.

Limiting the rules to only those only required to making it a safe event (i.e. firearm and range safety), would be ideal.

Throw in some pistol targets, here and there to add to the challenge.

I hope you can get a comp started, as I would look forward to shooting it. I'll even offer to help with the logistics if you need.
 
Everything he said, plus have it organized so that standing around is minimized. Having been to matches where total shooting time of 12 minutes was spread over an all day match, I can tell you people don't like it. Have enough ROs that shooters aren't waiting on staff. ROs should be comfortable on the stage, physically and have solid knowledge of stage procedure. They should also have excellent glass, and call "Impact" "Miss" or Miss: Wrong Target" loudly. Have two ROs per stage, one observes and one scores and runs the timer.
Design your stages so that a winning score might be 60-75% hit ratio. Should be damn near impossible to clean a stage. This means you have to have good shooters pre-shoot the match. Times should be short.
Award bonus points for first-round hits. I've been to matches where you had three or four shots at a given target, and first round hits were 10 points, second round hits 5, and 3 &4 were one point each. You got to shoot until you had two impacts.
Keep excess movement with a loaded weapon to a minimum. Don't be afraid to DQ people, from a stage or the match, and make it clear that the ROs word is law. Don't give refunds to anyone who DQs themselves.
Either be very clear on where there will be water and/or food, or that there will be none.
I like the idea of a secondary weapon stage, pistol or shotgun. If competitors are carrying all the gear all day, consider supplying the shotgun, or allowing them to prestage so the load is not excessive.


That help?


1911fan
 
Thanks for stepping up to host matches. Tons of people like to shoot them but precious few are willing to put the work into running them! Excellent advice has been given above. I might add that if you haven't shot a match in awhile as you indicate, you might want to attend a few as a competitor or as an RO. It will give you insight as to what works well and what is required to produce a match. As a general rule, Safety first, fun factor second and everything else will fall into place. Good Luck!
 
That is a nice area for an event the terrain is varying, it would also be nice to have events at least four times a year. With you being so close to Denver competitors flying in would be under five hours to drive there, I would like to see more events that involve single man teams carrying all three weapon types, handgun, semi-auto rifle and precision rifle. Running light is nice but having some weight is what makes things interesting. The guys are right the worst thing is standing around for long periods of time waiting your turn for a short period of shooting. If you have a coyote problem have an event just for that, nice thing about Wyoming you do not need a small game license.
 
Thanks all for the suggestions. I am trying to figure all logistics, but I am working on it. I would like to have comps next summer (2014), and would like to have around 1 a month from May thru September. I have some lodging available and would be able to create different "packages" for those who are willing to drive back and forth from town, bring a camper/tent, stay in a ranch house but provide their own food and cooking to stay in a lodge with meals provided.

On average, how many stations and targets per station are engaged? I foresee 3-4 targets per stage, with about 10-12 precision rifle stages and alternate weapon stages throughout, with a bar b q lunch at the end. Both known and unknown distances, unfamiliar shooting positions, timed, etc. How big are most precision targets??? 1-2 MOA? Also, what are typical comp entry fees and awards?

Thanks for the help and I hope to be posting event notices this fall/winter
 
Tad,
Number of targets per stage, and number of stages, the sky is the limit. It all comes down to how many people you want to run through the course, and how much time you have. Also, a lot depends on the lay of the land, and how much you want people to hike between stages.

Here's an example to help get you started - Let's say this is an all-day event, starting with a safety brief at 0700, followed by the first shooter (or squad) going out at 0800 (staggered start), with the next shooter (or squad) going out at 0830, then 0900, so on and so forth, with the last going at 1030. Have two hour time limit for the course if individual shooters, or a 10-min time limit per person per stage if starting in groups. Then in the afternoon, start again with a safety brief at 1200, and the first shooter (or squad) at 1300, with the last ones going out at 1530. The guys signed up for the morning can show up early, leave early if they choose, and the guys signed up for the afternoon, can arrive later if they choose.
Another option is just send out individuals at a staggered start every 15-min, with the option to play (shoot) through, if they catch someone on the course that's slower than them (and only pass them between stages).
Stages - another example. If there's ten stages, you can average around six targets per stage, and allow 2-min per target to acquire, identify, range, engage, and hit the targets. Then add the time required to hike to the next stage, i.e. at 3-MPH, half a mile would take 10-minutes (brisk walk for the average person). An example, one stage you can have 2-pistol, and 4-rifle, then the next have 5-rifle, and the next one 1-pistol and 3-rifle, etc. This would all be dictated by the course, it's length, and the terrain.
Targets - Suggestions. I would place pistol targets between 15-yards and 50-yards, and rifle between 200-yards and 1300-yards. The reason is, at 200-yards and beyond, the targets will hold up for a long time to most calibers (under a 408 CheyTac) as long as we're talking 1/2" AR500, and the chance of damaging a strap/hanger/post is minimalized. 1300-yards is a poke for most non-Magnum calibers, but possible even with a 308 at your altitude. Most guys that know they can't hit a target over 1000-yards or so will take the penalty for not engaging or hitting the further out targets, and make it up with the time they saved. I would make all targets the same size to make it easy and help with range estimations (without a laser range finder). 10" target for everything is perfect, also a good size that can be easily and reliably ranged with both Mil and MOA reticles. Make the targets beyond 1000-yards 20" targets, and maybe throw some 5" targets out there as bonus targets, and paint them an odd color to identify as such. Target shape - if you have the space, ideally you wouldn't want any of the targets from one stage visible from another stage, but most events will have overlap of visible targets, to help with that problem, you could use 10" square targets on stage one, 10" round targets on stage two, and 10" square (hung from one corner - diamond shape) on stage three, then repeat the sequence. This method will help alleviate any confusion with both the shooter and the RO.

Range Officer (RO) - should be familiar with the course, and where all targets are. The RO tells the shooter, we have 2-pistol, and 5-rifle targets on this stage. The shooter should tell the RO, for example, I'm engaging pistol targets closest to farthest. Then I will do the same with rifle targets once I find them and range them. The RO, should know the course well enough that he would be able to follow the shooter without getting lost. Depending on how well you want to hide the targets, one suggestion I have is to number the targets (Target Post) with a big 6" number plate that's visible through most quality glass. You can have a black number on a brown placard for example that won't stand out, but would be readable when looking at the target. This would help to ensure the RO and shooter are on the same target.

Entry Fee - Allot of shooters are cheap, to put it frankly, so I would say $30 to $50 for a one day event would be average, with $100 the limit. You can add options such as $20 more for BBQ, and $75 to stay in the bunk house and have breakfast, etc. You need to be fair to yourself and paid staff also. The price of targets, T-posts, straps, flagging, stop watches, score sheets, clip boards, etc. are not free. The nice thing, there are a lot of vendors out there who will donate if approached, and with a promise that you will give them credit (free advertising). Hit up Home Depot in Casper, Murdoch's in Laramie, local Merchants (i.e. steel supplier in Casper) who will provide either free, or at a discounted price the things you need.

Awards - Having a cash prize for the first five top finishers is the average, with prize money handed out for example $200 for first place, $150 for second, etc. Other prizes - if you solicit all the manufacturers, distributors, local sporting goods/shooting/hunting retailers, you'd be surprised how quickly the prize table will fill up. Most matches the way it works, first place gets first pick of a prize off of the prize table, second place gets second pick, etc. If it's an annual event, that's when you'll usually have a prize table, if it's a monthly event, usually it will be a cash prize for the top finishers.

Schedule - If you're going the monthly event route, I suggest you make it easy for everyone. 2nd Saturday of every month, May through September. 1st Sunday of every month is the Sporting Rifle Match in Raton, so you don't want to compete with that. If just an annual event, make it May or early June while the days are still cool.

Question for you, if one wanted to camp on site, would there be showers available?
 
Alpine 338-

Thank you very much for the advice! If one was to camp on site, showers could be arranged, depending on number of folks desiring that option. I would only have about 2-3 bathrooms for that option, so as you could understand, lines may be an issue. Could be something thrown in for those who want to camp.

I will get to the ground on this to get it going for next year.

Thanks
 
Most guys that know they can't hit a target over 1000-yards or so will take the penalty for not engaging or hitting the further out targets, and make it up with the time they saved.

Many of the matches I've been to will consider that 'gaming' the stage and there will be a stiff enough penalty that it's not worth doing. I've hit targets at 1350, repeatedly, with a .308. If I can do it, anybody can.
I've shot stages that I considered stupid impossible, but I gave it my best effort. Deliberately choosing not to engage a target should incur a zero for the stage.

It's competition. You're supposed to compete.


1911fan
 
Don't forget about an area and a time for checking zero, set a time and day for that and if the competitors don't show up at that time to check their weapons, then they are out of luck and will have to compete and take their chances. Also you have the choice of setting velocity maximums or caliber restrictions to save your steel so that it does not get pummeled.
 
Last edited:
WIth a facility of your size also consider a 2 day competition. Checkin Zero Fri, Shoot Sat/ SHoot Sun.

You can command a high entry fee is the match is challenging and the sponsors and prize table are real. Most people love competing for bragging rights, but just about everyone wants the top prize.

Steel is important. The more "real" it can be the better. Some of the funnest stages have been off dumpsters, through loopholes, movers, etc.
 
Many of the matches I've been to will consider that 'gaming' the stage and there will be a stiff enough penalty that it's not worth doing. I've hit targets at 1350, repeatedly, with a .308. If I can do it, anybody can.
I've shot stages that I considered stupid impossible, but I gave it my best effort. Deliberately choosing not to engage a target should incur a zero for the stage.

It's competition. You're supposed to compete.

1911fan

I agree that the 308 is a capable cartridge, more so then some believe, or will admit to. I also have successfully engaged targets at distances that some can only dream of, but I also understand what the cartridge cannot do.

Where I may not fully agree is - not engaging a target may not always be "gaming", unless the rules clearly state that targets "must" be engaged, and for example a competitor fires two rounds into the ground, or in the direction of the target because they feel their not capable, or don't have the time. However, if a competitor chooses not to engage a target, and incurs a penalty in negative points, or no points at all for that target, I feel that's their choice, and there's nothing wrong with it.

It's no different from a Sniper who chooses not the engage a target because they feel their weapons system doesn't have the capability to engage the target successfully, or the risk to engage the target far outweighs the benefit.
 
WIth a facility of your size also consider a 2 day competition. Checkin Zero Fri, Shoot Sat/ SHoot Sun.

You can command a high entry fee is the match is challenging and the sponsors and prize table are real. Most people love competing for bragging rights, but just about everyone wants the top prize.

Steel is important. The more "real" it can be the better. Some of the funnest stages have been off dumpsters, through loopholes, movers, etc.

Great suggestion, if qcreek still wanted to do a monthly match, they could end the season with a two-day match in September. Competitors would get a taste of what the course was like during the regular monthly matches, and from that they would somewhat know what to expect from the end of season two-day comp.
 
Thanks All, those are great suggestions...I'm thinking about getting 1/2" ar500 steel so I don't have to worry about what targets need to be at different ranges due to their thickness etc. Also, depending on desire, I would probably do most 1 day matches. For example, from 0730-1200 shoot precision rifle out to 1200, with intermixed pistol along the way, lunch from 1230-1330, and 1400-end would be carbine out to say 600, with pistol again intermixed. That way there is as little standing idle time as possible and you are active virtually all day. Zeros would be confirmed the day/afternoon before possible, or start a bit later and zero that morning. I think that all targets must be engaged, however, i also do feel that one is wasting time/ammo if their cartridge won't shoot past 1000. I think that I may have RO's at each statiion and I would have a separate class possibly for RO's since they will know where all the targets are and would have an unfair advantage.

I also think that a "year end" final match would be a cool idea with some big prizes (i.e. shooting systems, $$$, equipment, depending on sponsors) and have it to be a 2-3 day match with different target fields each day and team/single events.

Details need to be determined, but I am excited to get things going.

How many shooters could one expect at a match that I've described, with an entry fee of say around $100, depending on prizes?

It does get windy up here and I think that cross canyon, high angle targets will provide a big challenge to anyone, no matter the skill levels. Depending on the day, one could expect 30+kts with gusts to 45 and 50kts, however, I would be prepared to shoot in 10-17kts in most cases and in afternoons, with mornings generally calmer.
 
I also kind of like the idea of some stations range finding equipment can be used, and others it can't...simulating range finder errors, foggy conditions, rain, etc where most laser range finders don't work. maybe have 4-5 targets per station and shooters have to record 1 hit per target, with misses scoring negative (i.e. 5 pts awarded for a hit, -3 per miss) Caliber restrictions I'm finding are mostly 6mm-338, with velocities of 3200 and under.

I don't care what people use to shoot from. There will be stations with un-natural firing positions, positions where one would have to take cover and fire prone, kneeling, offhand, or with sticks. But if you want to use it you will pack it and there will be no equipment left on the trail because it ended up being too heavy.
 
I would say just read, read, read. There are a lot of good matches here, all with different flavors and they are all good.

I see two kinds basically. Savory, and sweet. Both are good.

The sniper comps, which press tangential tactical skill sets like concealment, Target ID, scavenger hunt/item location/observation drills, land nav, physical fitness (carry all your own gear everywhere on your back, no baby strollers), plus all the other shooting and non-shooting skills required of a military or LE sniper. These are typically designed so that military calibers are competitive.

The more civilian competition based matches are the other branch of the tree. These focus more on the shooting skills only with some of the movement added in. Highly technical rules and scoring is used. They are heavily populated by sponsored shooters in silk shirts with some version of pillows strapped to their arms and legs, shooting some variant of a 3100fps 6mm with a muzzle brake. Standard fare to be competitive in this branch of the tree, but the good side of that is the prize tables at these are insane.

You don't have to go extreme one way or the other either. You can strike a balance but it's getting more and more difficult to do so. I would recommend you start off simple, and see what the locals like best and move in that direction. NEVER PISS OFF THE LOCALS.

Shooters are going to be thrilled to have another match around, and they will provide useful and respectful feedback so use it to improve after your first one. If you give people what they want, they'll be back again and again.

--Fargo007