New to long range, searching for optics

[Grumpy232]

Just was able to procure a Tikka T3 A1, been eyeballing this rifle for over a year, should have purchased it back then, only paid about a 200.00 premium (shipping, tax). But as scarce as this rifle is now, I pulled the trigger (pun intended). Now I'm looking at some glass. I have some non rifle experience with glass, amateur astronomer and professional photographer (retired, side gig). So I understand some phrases associated with glass. CA (chromatic aberration), etc. My main concern is focus, sharpness and clarity at 1000 yards. If there is a bit of CA or fuzziness at the edge, I can live with that because I plan to use the middle of the view anyway. That being said. I am in the buy once category. I do enjoy knowing I have quality equipment.

I’ve done a little research, some of the products popping up are:

1) Vortex HD AMG 6-24x50mm (unavailable, backordered),
2) Razor Gen II 4.5-27,
3) NightForce SHV 4-14x50mm F1,
4) (removed, repeat)
5) Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm

Not in any particular order

Don't plan to hunt, just target at the moment

Budget is around 2k

I hear good things about the AMG, but haven't seen one that's available. Are they still being produced and just backordered or have they been replaced by newer models?

I’m sure all very good products, lots of different models, being new, not sure what bells and whistles would suit me best. The more I read, the more my head spins. I was really hoping to get my info first hand at gun shows and sportsman shows, but, well we know the answer to that.

I should have the Tikka in my hands in several weeks (unless background check comes in sooner). So I’ll have some time to make a choice on mount and optics. Trying to figure out if I need a 20 MOA mount as well, the local range doesn’t go beyond 1000 yds, so I don’t even know if I’ll ever go beyond that.

Lots of options I know, I’m currently reading “Long range shooting handbook, A beginner’s guide to precision rifle shooting” by Ryan Cleckner.

Looking forward to this new venture. Thanks, Dave

 

[SepticDeath]

Just was able to procure a Tikka T3 A1, been eyeballing this rifle for over a year, should have purchased it back then, only paid about a 200.00 premium (shipping, tax). But as scarce as this rifle is now, I pulled the trigger (pun intended). Now I'm looking at some glass. I have some non rifle experience with glass, amateur astronomer and professional photographer (retired, side gig). So I understand some phrases associated with glass. CA (chromatic aberration), etc. My main concern is focus, sharpness and clarity at 1000 yards. If there is a bit of CA or fuzziness at the edge, I can live with that because I plan to use the middle of the view anyway. That being said. I am in the buy once category. I do enjoy knowing I have quality equipment.

I’ve done a little research, some of the products popping up are:

1) Vortex HD AMG 6-24x50mm (unavailable, seems to be old product),
2) Razor Gen II 4.5-27,
3) NightForce SHV 4-14x50mm F1,
4) RAZOR® HD AMG® 6-24X50 FFP (unavailable as well)
5) Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm

Not in any particular order

Don't plan to hunt, just target at the moment

Budget is around 2k

I hear good things about the AMG, but haven't seen one that's available. Are they still being produced and just backordered or have they been replaced by newer models?

I’m sure all very good products, lots of different models, being new, not sure what bells and whistles would suit me best. The more I read, the more my head spins. I was really hoping to get my info first hand at gun shows and sportsman shows, but, well we know the answer to that.

I should have the Tikka in my hands in several weeks (unless background check comes in sooner). So I’ll have some time to make a choice on mount and optics. Trying to figure out if I need a 20 MOA mount as well, the local range doesn’t go beyond 1000 yds, so I don’t even know if I’ll ever go beyond that.

Lots of options I know, I’m currently reading “Long range shooting handbook, A beginner’s guide to precision rifle shooting” by Ryan Cleckner.

Looking forward to this new venture. Thanks, Dave

Razor. Spuhr 30 moa mount. May as well gain some elevation. All you need right there.

 

[dski]

If you are just looking at target shooting (meaning you don't care about weight) then the Razor G2 would be my easy choice in that list/price range. Glass quality, eyebox and magnification are great. Many articles on the site about the Razors.

Another option in that price range is the cronus BTR and it is a little less money. I have had both and would go to the razor for the extra $. Love my Nightforces but you are quite a bit more for the 5-25 and even more for the 7-35. I love the mil-xt reticle. Really wish the Razor had .2 hashes on the elevation and the windage.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

As a long standing supporting vendor here on the forum it would be our pleasure to discuss this with you and help figure out which would suit your intended use the best. If you've got a few minutes give us a call, 516-217-1000
Thanks

 

[Glassaholic]

OP, the Vortex AMG has not been discontinued and there is only one version, the Vortex Razor AMG or just plain AMG all refers to the same scope, the AMG 6-24x50. This is generally viewed as one of the best crossover scopes, for those who want lighter weight with superb optical/mechanical performance. For all things Vortex I highly recommend you contacting the Hide vendors and asking for Hide pricing.

Another I'd throw into the mix would be the Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56, the downside of this scope is that it does not have illumination, but optical/mechanical performance is excellent for the price and it offers the widest FOV in its class as well.

 

[Schütze]

I would suggest to go with #2 EBR7 /Mil of course. I own one with the older EBR 1 reticle and still think even today it's one of the best options out there. Especially if you can still purchase them for around $1600 .... I haven't checked lately.
On the other hand, I just purchased a ZSO 527, love it but not sure if it is worth double and more. It's for sure better on my old eye, I'm able to see impacts / misses easier then with the Razor Gen2.

 

[koshkin]

Just was able to procure a Tikka T3 A1, been eyeballing this rifle for over a year, should have purchased it back then, only paid about a 200.00 premium (shipping, tax). But as scarce as this rifle is now, I pulled the trigger (pun intended). Now I'm looking at some glass. I have some non rifle experience with glass, amateur astronomer and professional photographer (retired, side gig). So I understand some phrases associated with glass. CA (chromatic aberration), etc. My main concern is focus, sharpness and clarity at 1000 yards. If there is a bit of CA or fuzziness at the edge, I can live with that because I plan to use the middle of the view anyway. That being said. I am in the buy once category. I do enjoy knowing I have quality equipment.

I’ve done a little research, some of the products popping up are:

1) Vortex HD AMG 6-24x50mm (unavailable, seems to be old product),
2) Razor Gen II 4.5-27,
3) NightForce SHV 4-14x50mm F1,
4) RAZOR® HD AMG® 6-24X50 FFP (unavailable as well)
5) Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm

Not in any particular order

Don't plan to hunt, just target at the moment

Budget is around 2k

I hear good things about the AMG, but haven't seen one that's available. Are they still being produced and just backordered or have they been replaced by newer models?

I’m sure all very good products, lots of different models, being new, not sure what bells and whistles would suit me best. The more I read, the more my head spins. I was really hoping to get my info first hand at gun shows and sportsman shows, but, well we know the answer to that.

I should have the Tikka in my hands in several weeks (unless background check comes in sooner). So I’ll have some time to make a choice on mount and optics. Trying to figure out if I need a 20 MOA mount as well, the local range doesn’t go beyond 1000 yds, so I don’t even know if I’ll ever go beyond that.

Lots of options I know, I’m currently reading “Long range shooting handbook, A beginner’s guide to precision rifle shooting” by Ryan Cleckner.

Looking forward to this new venture. Thanks, Dave

Items 1 and 4 on your list are the same scope. It is still in production, but likely backordered. I'll be visiting Vortex on Friday, I can ask what the backlog on these looks like. Generally, for Vortex products, Scott at Liberty Optics is worth giving a call to. Tell him a fat russian sent you.

Generally, both Razors you list and the Mark5 are good options. SHV does not really belong in this group. If you want a Nightforce, step up to the ATACR.

In terms of bang for the buck, it is really difficult to beat Razor Gen2 4.5-27x56 for what you are looking to do with it.

ILya

 

[VargmatII]

As good as the Razor G2 is, if you are sensitive to CA you will probably not like it. I shot with one for about 2 years and eventually I upgraded to a Schmidt & Bender pm2 5-25x56.

Have a look at Delta Stryker HD it does not have equally nice turrets as the Razor or the Schmidt, but it is very easy to get behind and no CA. A few different reticles to choose from.

I am curious about the Trijicon Tenmile and Burris Xtr3 too. Haven't looked through one.

 

[A.Redd]

Just was able to procure a Tikka T3 A1, been eyeballing this rifle for over a year, should have purchased it back then, only paid about a 200.00 premium (shipping, tax). But as scarce as this rifle is now, I pulled the trigger (pun intended). Now I'm looking at some glass. I have some non rifle experience with glass, amateur astronomer and professional photographer (retired, side gig). So I understand some phrases associated with glass. CA (chromatic aberration), etc. My main concern is focus, sharpness and clarity at 1000 yards. If there is a bit of CA or fuzziness at the edge, I can live with that because I plan to use the middle of the view anyway. That being said. I am in the buy once category. I do enjoy knowing I have quality equipment.

I’ve done a little research, some of the products popping up are:

1) Vortex HD AMG 6-24x50mm (unavailable, seems to be old product),
2) Razor Gen II 4.5-27,
3) NightForce SHV 4-14x50mm F1,
4) RAZOR® HD AMG® 6-24X50 FFP (unavailable as well)
5) Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm

Not in any particular order

Don't plan to hunt, just target at the moment

Budget is around 2k

I hear good things about the AMG, but haven't seen one that's available. Are they still being produced and just backordered or have they been replaced by newer models?

I’m sure all very good products, lots of different models, being new, not sure what bells and whistles would suit me best. The more I read, the more my head spins. I was really hoping to get my info first hand at gun shows and sportsman shows, but, well we know the answer to that.

I should have the Tikka in my hands in several weeks (unless background check comes in sooner). So I’ll have some time to make a choice on mount and optics. Trying to figure out if I need a 20 MOA mount as well, the local range doesn’t go beyond 1000 yds, so I don’t even know if I’ll ever go beyond that.

Lots of options I know, I’m currently reading “Long range shooting handbook, A beginner’s guide to precision rifle shooting” by Ryan Cleckner.

Looking forward to this new venture. Thanks, Dave

If you don’t mind a simple mil dot reticle and 2nd focal point I’d consider the hensoldt zF. It fits your priority of focus, sharpness and clarity better than the scopes you identified. I am surprised to say it gives a sharper picture than my Schmidt bender exos 3-21, polar 3-12, or kahles. They specifically coat it to do better with CA as well. It is probably the best pure “optic” under 2k. Down side includes .05 turrets and 2nd focal plane if that is even a need or concern to have.

Hensoldt ZF 6-24x56 Mildot Riflescope 10139126

Hensoldt ZF 6-24x56 Mildot Riflescope 10139126 | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

 

[Schütze]

If you don’t mind a simple mil dot reticle and 2nd focal point I’d consider the hensoldt zF. It fits your priority of focus, sharpness and clarity better than the scopes you identified. I am surprised to say it gives a sharper picture than my Schmidt bender exos 3-21, polar 3-12, or kahles. They specifically coat it to do better with CA as well. It is probably the best pure “optic” under 2k. Down side includes .05 turrets and 2nd focal plane if that is even a need or concern to have.

Hensoldt ZF 6-24x56 Mildot Riflescope 10139126

Hensoldt ZF 6-24x56 Mildot Riflescope 10139126 | Only at EuroOptic.com!

www.eurooptic.com

Zero Stop?
Elevation 16 mil
Warranty?
Sec. focal plane
Reticle

Looks a little out dated to me, of course it will have excellent or better glass

 

[A.Redd]

Zero Stop?
Elevation 16 mil
Warranty?
Sec. focal plane
Reticle

Looks a little out dated to me, of course it will have excellent or better glass

I get your argument, but 2 of my vortex broke during use, one being the AMG. I personally will not buy their product. Why would anyone need more than 16 mils shooting 1k? Also, if there are 16mils and you use a 20moa base, you are basically setting the zero at the bottom, no need for a zero stop. I personally have gone from 2nd focal point to 1st now back to 2nd with half of my scopes. If glass is a priority, you will not find better glass for less than 2k, the scope is perfectly functional to shoot 1k. It is easy to start thinking you “need”more than you do.

 

[Chickentoast]

I also really like 2nd focal plane. Just bought an NX8 with the mil-C in 2nd. It's a 0.2 mil scope at 16X, with a 4-32 range, so it makes for easy math, and gets you a smaller reticle than the FFP version cranked to max.

I also have an XTR3 5.5-30 SCR2 and a Trijicon 5-50 MRAD. The XTR3 has the thin reticle and huge FOV. The Trijicon has slightly better glass and not as busy. For what you want, I'd probably go Cronus - I find it brighter and sharper than the Razor. Haven't compared to the XTR or Trij to the Razor or Cronus.

 

[patriot07]

Razor Gen 2 is pretty fantastic.

Delta Stryker is also great.

I'd consider an ATACR 5-25 as well. I love the Mil-C reticle and I think it probably has less CA than either of the LOW scopes. Or at least the one I looked through did.

I agree SHV doesn't make sense in this list. I'm just not a fan of any of the Leupold reticles, so they're out for me. I like the Razor Gen 2 better than the AMG. AMG is a great scope if you need light weight, but the Razor Gen 2 makes more sense on a pure target shooting rifle IMHO.

Honestly, none of the ones we're discussing will hold you back. They're all good. But some are better than others for your uses.

 

[TxWelder35]

No complaints with my gen 2 razor shooting out to a mile.

 

[Grumpy232]

I don't want to come across as a glass snob, but I would rate the ability to hold zero above CA or or fuzzy edges. I have a ton of quality glass already in my other hobbys and business. Not that I'm CA sensitive, I just enjoy quality gear. I appreciate all the comments so far, thanks for correcting me on the Razor, thought that the AMG had two models, one being a upgrade. Cheers.

 

[308pirate]

I don't want to come across as a glass snob, but I would rate the ability to hold zero above CA or or fuzzy edges.

Indeed

And I would take up @gr8fuldoug on his offer. Give him a call he won't steer you wrong.

 

[Grumpy232]

Indeed

And I would take up @gr8fuldoug on his offer. Give him a call he won't steer you wrong.

Will do, called yesterday, seems the number was already in my contacts, good chance I've bought glass from him before, East coast is known for their glass, either on a finger or for looking through, some good deals for sure.

edit: ok wow, lots of glass backordered and not just the Vortex, and Cameraland doesn't carry Vortex anymore. So this is where I need to finish that book and get some answers here too. Reticle choice, I'll probably have to start a new thread for that one.

 

[sheepdog697]

If my budget was 2k, I’d buy a kahles624 with skmr reticle. A close second would be the razor gen 2 4.5-27. The scopes on your list all perform great, but going to a 1000 I’d favor a bit more magnification.

 

[Grumpy232]

Ok my choices just got narrowed. I'm getting the VIP discount at Leupold. Looks like the 5x25 or 7x35 Mark 5HD is in my future

 

[Chickentoast]

When I was researching, it seemed the 5-25 got higher marks than the 7-35 in terms of glass quality FYI.

 

[patriot07]

Find a reticle you like. I really hated all of the Leupy reticles. If you don't like the reticle, you'll just end up selling the scope and buying one you do like. The discount doesn't mean anything if the view from the scope sucks.

That being said, I just checked on the Leupy site and their PR-1MIL must be new since last I looked. I like that reticle a lot, especially for beginners to long range. I'd grab one of those up if the discount was ok. I'm not sure what the VIP discount is. But you can get a Razor G2 for around $1500 used right now, which is a great scope for the $. So if it's not cheaper than that, I'd still recommend buying used off of here as your best value.

 

[Navy Gunner]

My MK5 7-35 is supposed to be here Monday (VIP Program). I decided on this one after using a Vortex Gen II Razor, a Leupold MK5 and comparing against my SWFA 5-25 HD. The SWFA won out when I compared side to side against the Gen II Razor at the SWFA store when I originally purchased it. The SWFA had less CA of the examples that I tested. The SWFA is limited on reticle choices though and has no zero stop. At one time they were the bang for the buck value IMO. The MK 5 was hands down the winner to my eyes. FWIW, I went Tremor3 reticle as I have a lot of time with the reticle on a Bushnell and it just plain works and takes some getting used to. Others hate it.
These are my impressions/ experience with a limited sample size.

 

[B_w.]

Athlon Cronus BTR could probably be added to the list.

 

[Grumpy232]

Find a reticle you like. I really hated all of the Leupy reticles. If you don't like the reticle, you'll just end up selling the scope and buying one you do like. The discount doesn't mean anything if the view from the scope sucks.

That being said, I just checked on the Leupy site and their PR-1MIL must be new since last I looked. I like that reticle a lot, especially for beginners to long range. I'd grab one of those up if the discount was ok. I'm not sure what the VIP discount is. But you can get a Razor G2 for around $1500 used right now, which is a great scope for the $. So if it's not cheaper than that, I'd still recommend buying used off of here as your best va

So I put the MARK 5HD 5-25X56 M5C3 FFP PR1-MIL on top of the list. I like that reticle just for the fact that the center seems thin enough to see far away targets, a complaint I read about somewhere on other reticles. The discount puts me at about 1400.00 That is definitely in my wheelhouse.

 

[patriot07]

So I put the MARK 5HD 5-25X56 M5C3 FFP PR1-MIL on top of the list. I like that reticle just for the fact that the center seems thin enough to see far away targets, a complaint I read about somewhere on other reticles. The discount puts me at about 1400.00 That is definitely in my wheelhouse.

Man that's a heck of a deal at $1400 IMHO.

 

[Chickentoast]

So I put the MARK 5HD 5-25X56 M5C3 FFP PR1-MIL on top of the list. I like that reticle just for the fact that the center seems thin enough to see far away targets, a complaint I read about somewhere on other reticles. The discount puts me at about 1400.00 That is definitely in my wheelhouse.

Even though I prefer the XTR3 and Cronus, at that price, you can't go wrong. Might as well try it... could always sell and lose ~nothing if you want something else.

 

[Team RCBS & Bushnell]

You're not going to beat the price to performance ratio here: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019633469

 

[TxWelder35]

You're not going to beat the price to performance ratio here: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019633469

I almost bought one of these to have just laying around but the reticles kill it for me. I hope y’all have some new reticles in the works, that will make this scope more competitive

 

[Grumpy232]

Man that's a heck of a deal at $1400 IMHO.

Only problem is availability. I was promised less than 12 weeks. I can do that, being I started looking into this venture over a year ago. Should've pulled the trigger back then. Ammo, rifle, scope....was all available back then.

 

[Navy Gunner]

You're not going to beat the price to performance ratio here: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019633469

That is the scope I was referring to in my comment above. There is, IMO, not a better value out there at the current time.

 

[patriot07]

Only problem is availability. I was promised less than 12 weeks. I can do that, being I started looking into this venture over a year ago. Should've pulled the trigger back then. Ammo, rifle, scope....was all available back then.

Yeah...we're all feeling that pain.

I will say the XRS 2 linked at midway is a stupid good deal too. Honestly it's probably a better value than a used Razor Gen 2 or a new MK5HD. You can't go wrong either way. But the XRS 2 is in stock now, so that's something to consider.

Lots of great options - good time to be in the scope market. 7-8 years ago at this price point, it was the SWFA HD 5-20, or something inferior to it, or something twice the price. Lots of good options now.

 

[Grumpy232]

My Tikka just arrived, background took less time than filling out the paperwork, local Sportsman's reported several weeks due backlog, used my ol' FFL, he got 'er done! Now waiting on Leupold... A Vortex AMG just showed up on Ebay for 2400.00. I'll wait for the Leupold.