New to Reloading....

[Turbo0321]

This is my first time starting a thread ever on SH so I want to start out by saying I have been researching this topic for the last few weeks but a lot of the threads are dated so I would appreciate some current opinions/information. I will be purchasing a new rifle soon in 300 Norma with a 6.5CM conversion down the road and would like to start reloading. The only reloading items I've bought so far are 100 pieces of 300Norma Lapua Brass and the 300Norma Redding Type S Match Bushing Die set, so I'm a long way from being anywhere close to reloading anything. Here is some of the things I'm looking into since reading countless threads in the forums and also watching youtube videos mostly from panhandle precision because I saw a thread on here that mentioned his channel. I'm not an expert by any means so if something I list is ass backwards let me know....

I intend on purchasing the following equipment:
Bench-Source annealer
Autotrickler V3 with Scale
Mitutoyo caliper's

I'm stuck on the following:
Reloading Press (thinking about the Co-ax or Redding T7)
Case trimmer (wouldn't mind having something electric like a Henderson Precision)
Primer seater (should I use the one on the press or buy a stand alone unit?)

My end goal is have as accurate of ammunition as I can produce with the equipment I have, so i'm open suggestions....thanks in advance.

 

[502Chevelle]

A lot of reloading company’s have a starter kit that has things like a primer flip tray, calipers, a good reloading manual (which has tons of info, yes, you can find that stuff on the net, but it’s so convenient to have it right there) etc... it is usually a little budget oriented, and you can upgrade stuff as you go, but the stuff in those pkgs will make your life easier in the beginning.

 

[Turbo0321]

A lot of reloading company’s have a starter kit that has things like a primer flip tray, calipers, a good reloading manual (which has tons of info, yes, you can find that stuff on the net, but it’s so convenient to have it right there) etc... it is usually a little budget oriented, and you can upgrade stuff as you go, but the stuff in those pkgs will make your life easier in the beginning.

I appreciate the info, I will look into that

 

[Ryridesmotox]

After flame annealing for a long time, I switched to induction. I'll never go back. Its so my more accurate and easier. The bench source is nice but if you can save for an AMP, Fluxeon, or just build your own induction annealer.

Co-ax would be my choice. Die swapping in a coax is instantaneous, no need for a T7 imho.

Case trimmer, Giraud if you have the money.

I hand prime with a Frankford. Its nice.

 

[Turbo0321]

After flame annealing for a long time, I switched to induction. I'll never go back. Its so my more accurate and easier. The bench source is nice but if you can save for an AMP, Fluxeon, or just build your own induction annealer.

Co-ax would be my choice. Die swapping in a coax is instantaneous, no need for a T7 imho.

Case trimmer, Giraud if you have the money.

I hand prime with a Frankford. Its nice.

awesome thank you for your input. Is the AMP style annealer what people refer to as an "electric" annealer? Ive seen the term in some threads but have yet to look into it. About how much time does each case take using that method of annealing?

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Yes it's electric. Induction annealers uses a magnetic field to heat brass. The AMP with Aztec uses 1 sacrificial case to gage the required annealing time. Then al like rest of the time the cases are annealed perfectly, or close to it. Its so simple a caveman could do it. That said, I built my own induction annealer and use tempilaq to set times

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I take it you have a significant budget to work with? Nothing wrong with your choices. But there are much cheaper products/approaches that will produce high quality ammo. If the sky's the limit then good for you.

 

[Turbo0321]

Yes it's electric. Induction annealers uses a magnetic field to heat brass. The AMP with Aztec uses 1 sacrificial case to gage the required annealing time. Then al like rest of the time the cases are annealed perfectly, or close to it. Its so simple a caveman could do it. That said, I built my own induction annealer and use tempilaq to set times

That’s pretty cool. I’m sure will all the technology involved its a lot more precise then using an open flame. Just curious what’s it cost to build a induction annealer?

 

[GMZ]

I would get all measuring devices, I wish I would have gotten them very early on. These will make it easier to loads rounds to a consistent standard.

OAL gage
Headspace comparator
Bullet comparator

 

[Turbo0321]

I take it you have a significant budget to work with? Nothing wrong with your choices. But there are much cheaper products/approaches that will produce high quality ammo. If the sky's the limit then good for you.

I figure I would spend about 2k or a little more then that getting all the components I need to start reloading, minus the consumables like powder, cases, bullets, primers of course. I just hate spending money, to figure out something else works better and then having to spend more money. If you have alternatives to what I listed though I’m all ears, like I said all I know about reloading so far is what I’ve read in this forum

 

[Turbo0321]

I would get all measuring devices, I wish I would have gotten them very early on. These will make it easier to loads rounds to a consistent standard.

OAL gage
Headspace comparator
Bullet comparator

I definitely plan on getting those measuring devices to use with the calipers, I don’t know how any of them work yet or what brands to go with but I’m sure it’s not rocket science. Also was planning on getting one of those tools to use with a modified case to figure out bullet seating depth for Initial load Development

 

[Ryridesmotox]

That’s pretty cool. I’m sure will all the technology involved its a lot more precise then using an open flame. Just curious what’s it cost to build a induction annealer?

Check out this thread...

Homemade Induction Annealer

Over the last couple of days I put together an induction annealer setup. All components minus the coil were sourced from Amazon. I turned the coil myself from solid copper wire to ensure proper inductance and distance to the case. The power supply is 24V/15A. Switching frequency of the...

www.snipershide.com

Mine cost about 120 bux

 

[1moaoff]

300NM is not hard to load for but theres an exponential risk difference between a 300NM and 308 sized case of whatever flavor you choose. Have you thought about starting with a smaller round to perfect your technique a bit?
What other calibers do you own already?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Sounds like you have a fairly large budget. Here’s what I’ve ended up with:

Forster Co-Ax (looking into prazi press and area 419 zero press)

Mitituyo calipers, inside and outside mics

Short Action Custom’s modular headspace and bullet comparators

AMP Annealer

21st century hydro and regular arbor presses

Primal Rights Competition Primer Seater

Henderson Trimmer (just “upgraded” from Giraud)



Other tools that are optional:

21st Century Turning lathe
IDOD neck turner

Various Mandrels and Gauge pins
Concentricity gauge

 

[Dthomas3523]

I definitely plan on getting those measuring devices to use with the calipers, I don’t know how any of them work yet or what brands to go with but I’m sure it’s not rocket science. Also was planning on getting one of those tools to use with a modified case to figure out bullet seating depth for Initial load Development

Buy the Short Action Customs headspace and bullet comparators if you can afford them. They are awesome.

Also, you can skip the modified case tool if you want and do this:

 

[Turbo0321]

300NM is not hard to load for but theres an exponential risk difference between a 300NM and 308 sized case of whatever flavor you choose. Have you thought about starting with a smaller round to perfect your technique a bit?
What other calibers do you own already?

I’ve been kicking around buying a 6.5 or 6cm to run in PRS production class while I wait it out for my AXSR, but currently I don’t own any bolt guns. Strictly 5.56 and 9mm in my house at the moment.

 

[Turbo0321]

Sounds like you have a fairly large budget. Here’s what I’ve ended up with:

Forster Co-Ax (looking into prazi press and area 419 zero press)

Mitituyo calipers, inside and outside mics

Short Action Custom’s modular headspace and bullet comparators

AMP Annealer

21st century hydro and regular arbor presses

Primal Rights Competition Primer Seater

Henderson Trimmer (just “upgraded” from Giraud)



Other tools that are optional:

21st Century Turning lathe
IDOD neck turner

Various Mandrels and Gauge pins
Concentricity gauge

Thanks for the recommendations, I will look into all of those you’ve listed. I’ve seen a couple threads in the last few days about annealers and the case trimmer comparison between the one you said you had and the one you now have. The Amp seems to be the best bet for annealing and the Henderson trimmer seems fast and accurate from what I read. What’s the caseS per hour rate on the Amp in your experience?

 

[wjwill]

After flame annealing for a long time, I switched to induction. I'll never go back. Its so my more accurate and easier. The bench source is nice but if you can save for an AMP, Fluxeon, or just build your own induction annealer.

Co-ax would be my choice. Die swapping in a coax is instantaneous, no need for a T7 imho.

Case trimmer, Giraud if you have the money.

I hand prime with a Frankford. Its nice.

I come to read the info on this thread because of my thread, lol. I am debating on a Foster Coax press.

 

[Turbo0321]

I come to read the info on this thread because of my thread, lol. I am debating on a Foster Coax press.

Seems like they are the way to go according to 90% of the Hide. Probably why they are back ordered just about everywhere as well

 

[wjwill]

Seems like they are the way to go according to 90% of the Hide. Probably why they are back ordered just about everywhere as well

I am sure I can find one for sale somewhere. I am not to concerned with price at this point, I am more concerned with staying precise when I load. Even though I am buying a Wilson case trimmer, I am also going to get a Henderson Precision Gen II Powered Case Trimmer. The Wilson will be used for the 308 bolt gun, the Henderson will be used for the semi auto's.

 

[Snuby642]

Spend time with online videos of the tools you plan on getting .
Purchase a reloading book now for a reference on terms and methods to help with selections.

Sounds like you are well on your way.

If you can find a local mentor that will be a big help.

The hide is my mentor and has worked well.

 

[Turbo0321]

Spend time with online videos of the tools you plan on getting .
Purchase a reloading book now for a reference on terms and methods to help with selections.

Sounds like you are well on your way.

If you can find a local mentor that will be a big help.

The hide is my mentor and has worked well.

That is pretty much my game plan. Find something I like Then search the Forums and YouTube for it until I’m satisfied with what I’ve read and watched. It would be nice to find a local member that’s knowledgeable with reloading though. I live right next to Berger, maybe I’ll stop by and ask those guys haha

 

[Dthomas3523]

That is pretty much my game plan. Find something I like Then search the Forums and YouTube for it until I’m satisfied with what I’ve read and watched. It would be nice to find a local member that’s knowledgeable with reloading though. I live right next to Berger, maybe I’ll stop by and ask those guys haha

If possible, find a higher level F class shooter. They will typically be making very high quality ammo. Then you can decide what it’s overkill or not for your use.

PRS shooters are typically “good enough” ammo. Which is fine. But their process won’t be as refined.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thanks for the recommendations, I will look into all of those you’ve listed. I’ve seen a couple threads in the last few days about annealers and the case trimmer comparison between the one you said you had and the one you now have. The Amp seems to be the best bet for annealing and the Henderson trimmer seems fast and accurate from what I read. What’s the caseS per hour rate on the Amp in your experience?

Just under 500 per hour. I just did 100 with stopwatch on. 12min 40 sec.

That’s not rushing either. Just consistent feeding it and pushing button

 

[Turbo0321]

Just under 500 per hour. I just did 100 with stopwatch on. 12min 40 sec.

That’s not rushing either. Just consistent feeding it and pushing button

That's pretty quick. I saw you and some other guys going back and forth on the "how long to anneal Lapua brass" thread. So many different opinions and theories out there. If the AMP in Aztec mode tells you exactly what to set the machine at I cant see how its not the way to go. Takes the guess work out of it.

Also I checked out those SAC Comparator gauges and Im definitely going to pick some up. They look awesome and are only 20 bucks right now for the body, probably will get a few so I never have to switch out the inserts.

 

[J McGriddle]

Don't forget to budget for a chronograph if you don't have one. Without it you are flying blnd.

ETA: Magnetospeed or Labradar are really the only two you'll want.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That's pretty quick. I saw you and some other guys going back and forth on the "how long to anneal Lapua brass" thread. So many different opinions and theories out there. If the AMP in Aztec mode tells you exactly what to set the machine at I cant see how its not the way to go. Takes the guess work out of it.

Also I checked out those SAC Comparator gauges and Im definitely going to pick some up. They look awesome and are only 20 bucks right now for the body, probably will get a few so I never have to switch out the inserts.

I won’t argue that other ways of annealing don’t work. But others shouldn’t try to debunk the AMP either. It’s not for everyone and it’s not the only game in town that works.

The SAC inserts swap in pretty quick. Not much reason to have multiple bodies unless you really want. You’d still have to swap out bodies on the calipers. So either way, you’re swapping something.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That’s a good point. A magnetospeed or labradar is pretty much a must have if you want to be doing load development the most modern way.

 

[Turbo0321]

Don't forget to budget for a chronograph if you don't have one. Without it you are flying blnd.

I was planning on getting a magnetto speed v3 for that. I see the lab radar being talked about a lot but I like the size of the Magnetto

 

[Turbo0321]

I won’t argue that other ways of annealing don’t work. But others shouldn’t try to debunk the AMP either. It’s not for everyone and it’s not the only game in town that works.

The SAC inserts swap in pretty quick. Not much reason to have multiple bodies unless you really want. You’d still have to swap out bodies on the calipers. So either way, you’re swapping something.

Yeah I guess thats a good point, I'd have to swap out the comparators anyway

 

[wpgk58]

Welcome to the Addiction...
I have been running the Autotrickler/Autothrower on the A&D 120FXI, and absolutely love it. Been running it since V1 and did many enhancements with Area 419 gear.
I run the Giraud Trimmer. It is fast and Very Accurate.
The Redding dies are excellent. But in order to get the best performance and consistency you will need to anneal. I started with the Annealeez for about $300, then upgraded to the AMP with Aztec, which is very precise and consistent.
For presses the Redding T7 is what I run. I set the dies up once and then use the Redding Competition Shell Holders to achieve the exact bump required. The Forester would also be a great choice, I liked the Redding for the not having to change dies all the time.
Have fun...
The journey to the perfect load is almost as much fun as the shooting...

 

[Jarrodb1975]

I recommend the frankford arsenal case prep station. Probably the best money I have spent.

 

[Rocketmandb]

After flame annealing for a long time, I switched to induction. I'll never go back. Its so my more accurate and easier. The bench source is nice but if you can save for an AMP, Fluxeon, or just build your own induction annealer.

I just got my Fluxeon. I've been flame annealing for a while, but wanted to get away from propane. My SDs were nearly identical (5.9 over 20 rounds vs 6.0 for previous). So far, I can't say that it's any better or worse (yet), but it is very nice to not have open flames going while I anneal. It's also quicker.

 

[spife7980]

but it is very nice to not have open flames going while I anneal. It's also quicker.

Yep, that’s what it sells itself on. And for twice as much you can get the amp which will set itself but I don’t mind a bottle of 750 tempilaq and a bottle of thinner makes it go a looooong ways. Center the middle of the shoulder in the middle of the jaws and it will help the shoulders and neck both come out closer together. The neck will always finish first but you can definitely get it pretty even by inserting it deeper than just the neck.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I just got my Fluxeon. I've been flame annealing for a while, but wanted to get away from propane. My SDs were nearly identical (5.9 over 20 rounds vs 6.0 for previous). So far, I can't say that it's any better or worse (yet), but it is very nice to not have open flames going while I anneal. It's also quicker.

I'm expirementing with going considerably higher than 750. I have 1000 and 1150 tempilaq that I'm going to use for my next time annealing.

 

[wpgk58]

I'm expirementing with going considerably higher than 750. I have 1000 and 1150 tempilaq that I'm going to use for my next time annealing.

The optimum annealing temperature for brass is 750-850 F degree. If you go to 1000 F degree + you will be burning off metal content and ruining your brass. If using a torch and the brass begins to glow, then you have gone too far.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Yep, that’s what it sells itself on. And for twice as much you can get the amp which will set itself but I don’t mind a bottle of 750 tempilaq and a bottle of thinner makes it go a looooong ways. Center the middle of the shoulder in the middle of the jaws and it will help the shoulders and neck both come out closer together. The neck will always finish first but you can definitely get it pretty even by inserting it deeper than just the neck.

I would have loved to get an AMP, but just couldn't justify the cost. As for positioning, I'm going just about mid at the shoulder. One thing that was interesting was how much more time my little Lapua 6mm BRA brass took vs my big ole 300 PRC (2.0 sec vs. 1.2)

EDIT: PRC = ADG brass

 

[Ryridesmotox]

The optimum annealing temperature for brass is 750-850 F degree. If you go to 1000 F degree + you will be burning off metal content and ruining your brass. If using a torch and the brass begins to glow, then you have gone too far.

It has less to do with temperature and more to do with duration.

If the conventional assumption is true, then the brass would exit the chamber useless. It is exposed to an extremely hot plasma when you ignite the powder column in the case. Literally a few thousand degrees for a few fractions of a second. There is information (provided by a guy much smarter than I am) in the link below, shows how we may not be getting the case hot enough to completely anneal.

My next run of annealing will be up to 1100° at the neck/shoulder area to see if the guy is full of it or not. If it destroys a few pieces of brass, I'm not worried about it. I just like to expirement with things, its part of the fun for me.

Deformation and Annealing of Cartridge Brass

Copper and its alloys are among the most malleable metals and alloys in existence. Cartridge brass, Cu – 30% Zn, has been used for many years to produce cartridge cases for ammunition due to its superior cold forming characteristics. This article shows the microstructure and hardness of...

vacaero.com

 

[earthquake]

I use the following equipment and it's significantly made my time in the reloading room easier and more efficient. Ammo is more consistent and therefore more precise, which is why we do this in the first place. I can then spend more time shooting and reaping the benefit of the best ammo my rifle can possibly get.
1. Press - Forster Co-Ax. I now use it to prime in addition to resize brass.
2. 21st Century hyro arbor press with L.E. Wilson micro-seater dies.
3. AMP induction annealer. Magic, love it! There's a discount code you can use to save 5% (JADE). Not much but it's enough to get a few pilots for your collection.
4. Giraud case trimmer. Soooo worth it! I hated manually trimming brass!
5. A&D fx300i Autotrickler setup with most of the Area419 upgrades.
6. All the other do-dads, comparators, calipers, gauges etc.

I started with a small Lee kit, rcbs 505 balance scale etc. etc. If you have the funds, buy once, cry once. You'll be glad you did. I also started with a flame annealer and it was a messy, hot inefficient way to do things...tempilaq, flame regulation etc. Now I can anneal perfectly in my house at the push of a button. Let me know if you have any other questions Devil Dog. Are you in BDC?

 

[Rocketmandb]

It has less to do with temperature and more to do with duration.

It's both. X amount of heat/temp/energy applied for Y amount of time heats the brass to Z temperature. It's the Z temp you care about.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

It's both. X amount of heat/temp/energy applied for Y amount of time heats the brass to Z temperature. It's the Z temp you care about.

Yea exaclty. Ideally I want to find a temp/time that allows as near to 100% annealing as possible with my mediocre equipment lol. But I want to test befire I throw 200 cases through. I don't mind losing a few to find out though.