Suppressors New to side arms. Need help.

[Gnab2]

Hello. I need a little help. I am new to the whole side arm deal. I am looking at getting a new pistol. I am torn between the SW M&P and the Springfield XD. I am looking at the .40 cals. What is the pros and cons to each? Which one do you have? Execpt for Glock is there a simialar alternative to these side arms?

Thanks

 

[Matt D]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Both are great
I like the M&P over the XD
Matt D

 

[427Cobra]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

First off get a 9mm, the reason why is there alot easier to learn to shoot with and the ammo is cheap n easy to find, what's wrong with Glocks, they are the standard in reliability, they are as accurite as they need to be, and easy to shoot, M&P is a rebranded Sigma which was a giant POS, the XD is a fine pistol for 50% less than what Springfield charges for them, they are rebadged HS2000, which used to cost 225 bucks, SA on the side and the price went up 100%, have roll pins handy. Don't discount Sigs, avoid the way overpriced do nothing better than a Glock H&Ks, and if you can try before you buy, in Dallas there are ranges that rent pistols, last but least take some formal training on how effectively use a pistol.

 

[weemsw]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Either will do. And nothing wrong with Glocks. I carried a Glock for 10yrs but recently switched to the M&P and love it.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

You might want to take a look at some of the H&K pistols, specifically the older USP series or the new P30 series. I'm kind of partial to HK pistols in .40 myself.

They perform very well, look great and have lots of trigger and safety options. For concealed carry, the USP Compact .40 by H&K is offers a pretty small package with great accuracy and can be found pretty cheaply. The P30 series is a bit bigger but probably better if you want to use it for mostly target practice. H&K also makes similar full size and compact ones in both 9mm and .45

The HK pistols do cost a bit more than other ones, but in my opinion they are worth it. You pretty much would need to go look at one in person and feel it and see if it fits you.

 

[300WSM]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

get a glock. S&W and XDM design sucks. Get a g23 and put in a conversion 9mm barrel. You can practice 9 but still have your 40.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get a glock. S&W and XDM design sucks. Get a g23 and put in a conversion 9mm barrel. You can practice 9 but still have your 40. </div></div>

Wimp , get a G20 and be done with it , shoot down satellites or kill moose , choice is yours .

+1 on Glock , proven design , all though is 9mm ,10mm 0r 45 for me , no 40's .

 

[TrooperBrian]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get a glock. S&W and XDM design sucks. Get a g23 and put in a conversion 9mm barrel. You can practice 9 but still have your 40. </div></div>

Perfect answer. The Springfield XD is a Croatian made pile of garbage. Although I wouldn't jump to say the M&P isn't something to consider.

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I am a former HK USP and XD owner.

I liked the fire control on the USP coming from 1911s, but HATED the DA trigger pull. The answer to that is to carry the pistol cocked and on safe which leaves you with a crisp SA trigger pull. However, HK customer service is an oxymoron even at present as they try to improve it. I just sold my USP compact a month ago, but I am happy where I landed. The "compact" is anything but compared to other compacts. I REALLY wanted to buy into the hype, and the new P30 feels great, but it is not worth the price of 2 Glocks.

The XD is a reliable and accurate pistol, but has an insanely high bore axis which causes it to be less controllable in recoil than other models. From a concealed carry perspective, the old XD compact is fine, but the new xdm still hasn't figured it out. The frame is the same for both the standard and 3.8. Why? I have no clue. The barrel length matters little. That huge ass frame that they want to pitch to you for holding "19+1" or whatever the hell is useless for CCW. If this is simply a range queen and will be nothing more, they are worth the consideration.

The M&P is not a "Rebranded Sigma". 427 Cobra and I tend to agree on things, but this is a different weapon. The grip is very natural and probably the best of all with the exception of the P30 from HK. It points well for me, and the recoil is very soft. They definitely have the "compact" down pat. It is a nice weapon, but I wanted something that would do well at the range and CCW. The grip can be extended for the compact, but it was not for me. As a dedicated carry piece it is awesome. The M&P full size is a great range gun, but is too big to conceal effectively.

Lastly, the Glock. I HATED the previous iterations of this weapon. The grips were always a touch too big for me. I shot a Gen 4 Glock 19 and fell in love. With no back straps installed, it is the PERFECT fit. I just finished a range session with both it and my 1911 and had ZERO issues switching between the two. In general, many people have perceived problems switching from the grip angle of the 1911 to that of the Glock. The fit and finish is great. On par with the M&P and maybe marginally behind that of HK. However, the service and simplicity of the pistol make up for any perceived shortcomings. I shoot it very well, it is the perfect size for carry and the range, it is simple to work on, and has tons of aftermarket support. I foresee myself having it for quite a long time.

This is a very personal decision. You should go to your local range and rent all of the pistols you are interested in. Put a box of ammo through them and do an honest assessment. Get the one you want and can hit with. However, don't let price be the driver. That is the last way to go about purchasing firearms. Get something you can trust your life to if it ever comes to that. If it is the cheapest, great - if not, that's fine. It's YOUR purchase, designed to fit YOU.

For me, the Glock is awesome (tough to say that after trying to hate Glock and love HK). I do see an M&P full size in my future. They are both quality weapons. I personally can't justify the premium of HK any longer. You WILL pay for the name. The XD is alright, but there are better options. The Glock and M&P have lower barrel axes that allow you to control the pistol better. If asthetics are important, I think the Glock and M&P look far better than the XD.

My .02

ETA: I do agree with 427 that you should get a 9mm. The current generation of hollowpoint ammo will put down any bad guy with decent shot placement. The 9 is less expensive to shoot which means more training. It also has less snap which should equate to better quality fundamentals and ability to put more rounds downrange in a session. It really gives up very little to the 40 with the current quality of projectiles such as Corbon's DPX (barne's bullet), Winchester Ranger, and Winchester's PDX1. The Federal hydrashok is an outdate design. I recommend the previous 3 over the hydrashok.

Josh

 

[Gnab2]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Why is it that I don't like Glock? It just doesn't fit and feel good to me. My hands are a little different. I never buy a gun that doesn't feel good no matter how good it shoots. I have an old SW Model 59 9mm that I don't like and it shhots like crap, but it was given to me by my dad so I won't get rid of it. I have a local gun range in Austin that rents guns and I will see. I will be getting a compact and a full frame so it will be trial and error. Thanks for the input. Sorry that I don't like Glock but does everyone like pruins? I don't and I love fruit.

Gnab2

 

[BigBoss0311]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Personally, I swear by HK. I would look at the P2000 or USP.But, since you asked about the XD or the M&P,I would go with the XD. Look into getting the 'M' version. For 500 bucks it's a hell of a package. I also think 427cobra gave some of the best advice with regards to caliber. 9mm is the way to go for a starter. Cheaper to practice with. Lastly, go to a range and rent the weapons you are interested in BEFORE you buy! Make sure the pistol you want, you are going to enjoy shooting. Go rent a half dozen different guns and put a mag or 2 through each. Do a pro/con list for each gun so you remember what you like/don't like. Then make your educated decision. You will be ALOT happier in the long run.

 

[MMA-Migraine]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off get a 9mm, the reason why is there alot easier to learn to shoot with and the ammo is cheap n easy to find, what's wrong with Glocks, they are the standard in reliability, they are as accurite as they need to be, and easy to shoot, M&P is a rebranded Sigma which was a giant POS, the XD is a fine pistol for 50% less than what Springfield charges for them, they are rebadged HS2000, which used to cost 225 bucks, SA on the side and the price went up 100%, have roll pins handy. Don't discount Sigs, avoid the way overpriced do nothing better than a Glock H&Ks, and if you can try before you buy, in Dallas there are ranges that rent pistols, last but least take some formal training on how effectively use a pistol.
</div></div>

What he said.
Glocks in 9mm truly are the standard in reliability.

 

[ZOMBIE101]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Glocks are cheaper... X'tra magazines ar more available & cheaper... Everybody makes sights,holsters,guide rods,ect for Glock...at a cheaper price... Accuracy is as good as most other weapons... Glock reliability is second to none...Glocks will dish out most any ammo you put in the s.o.b... You can now build an exact aluminum replica of a Glock... I think I'll name my first son Glock... I love Glocks...so Kool!

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I'm not sure if they have any good gun ranges that offer a lot of rentals where you are, but if the Dallas area (up on 75) is not too long of a drive for you on a weekend, there are some good stores up here with lots of pistols to look at, feel, test shoot etc.

 

[Lochem158]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

buy what you like they all shoot and you will be more likely to train with it ... any one of the guns mentioned in the right hands will work. I use a Glock 30 and love it. as for as caliber what are you planning to do with it? for punching holes in paper or target shooting go 9 mm. if you are going to carry it go up to 40 or 45...my 2 cents

 

[Gnab2]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

When I get back from Russia I will be at the range that rents the guns I am looking at. Thanks for the help.

Has anyone used USA Ammo? There site is www.usaammo.com

 

[45.308]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Get the shortgun that you shoot best. When a shooter tells you to get nothing but a Glock because they are the best, they are not the best if you cannot shoot one as accurate as another shortgun. Me, with the Glock grip angle it naturally points / shoots high and to the right. Most shooters that are not bias when picking up an XD and Glock one after the other say the XD points more natural, not everyone but a very high majority do, I worked in a gun shop and shooting range and did this everyday. Same holds true at the firing line. No need to go into a fully supported chamber, better safety features, and of course the XD passed the infamous Glock torture test so XDs are not less reliable than Glocks its all about which one you shoot best.

I am not a tupperware guy but a 1911 and when a friend of mine handed me his XD, the grip angle and pointing was fairly close to 1911s, so I bought one when they came out in 45. I carried XD45 since they arrived in Alaska, I was the first to transfer the XD45 at my local shop. My daily CC is the XD45 Compact because the grip length is the hardest part of a pistol to conceal not the width, the width does help but is much easier to conceal than the grip length. The grip is very heavy with 13 230gr in a full size and it will walk on a holster if you do not use a quality holster, I have tried a few and the Comp Tech has worked best for me.

I am not buying another tupperwear but if I had too it would be an MP45, I wish it was around when I transferred my XD. It points and shoots very well in my hand too.

What it comes down to is, everyone can give a plus or minus about any shortgun and most of these are biases but its all about what you point and shoot best, get that shortgun, shoot and train and believe it is the best for you.

About caliber, I would not get 40SW. I am a 45ACP guy and will always be one. Any cal will work in the hands of the right shortgun and shooter though, I just like the looks and that bigger hole.

Good luck

 

[Gnab2]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Thanks for all the input. It is nice to get all the info that you can.

 

[kytrapper]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

My .02 Cannot Rechime anothers advice enough - get hands on- the grip shape and width effect the comfort level and the shooting of a new shooter. The size and statue of the shooter also has an effect on the ability to control the weapon once a round has been sent down range.

I worked for an agency that issued .45 acp- loved it- will not be without my 1911 (my opinion best shooting platform for the round)

I am now issued an M&P .40 it shoots good !! I put my rounds in the black fast-- for my personal hi-cap carry I found an older Sig 226 .40 s&w- as a Lefty I avoided them because of the decock- Once I got hands on- my paws got a good grip without any issues involving the decock

Will not get into the round debate, just want to point out there is less traj at longer ranges with .40 s&w than .45acp and in my area most LEO's carry the 40 s&w- If I was just wanting a manstopper in wall to wall distance nothing beats the flying ashtray that the .45acp sends down range

Hope this helps in the thought process!!

 

[pappy42]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Some things never change; it's not what you hit them with, it's where you hit them. Hit success is determined by proper practice, ergonomics of the piece, and mechanical accuracy; in that order.

The point is, find a pistol that you like to shoot and practice with it. Much like choosing a spouse; it's a crap shoot.

 

[bengates]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 45.308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the shortgun that you shoot best. When a shooter tells you to get nothing but a Glock because they are the best, they are not the best if you cannot shoot one as accurate as another shortgun. Me, with the Glock grip angle it naturally points / shoots high and to the right. Most shooters that are not bias when picking up an XD and Glock one after the other say the XD points more natural, not everyone but a very high majority do, I worked in a gun shop and shooting range and did this everyday. Same holds true at the firing line. No need to go into a fully supported chamber, better safety features, and of course the XD passed the infamous Glock torture test so XDs are not less reliable than Glocks its all about which one you shoot best.

I am not a tupperware guy but a 1911 and when a friend of mine handed me his XD, the grip angle and pointing was fairly close to 1911s, so I bought one when they came out in 45. I carried XD45 since they arrived in Alaska, I was the first to transfer the XD45 at my local shop. My daily CC is the XD45 Compact because the grip length is the hardest part of a pistol to conceal not the width, the width does help but is much easier to conceal than the grip length. The grip is very heavy with 13 230gr in a full size and it will walk on a holster if you do not use a quality holster, I have tried a few and the Comp Tech has worked best for me.

I am not buying another tupperwear but if I had too it would be an MP45, I wish it was around when I transferred my XD. It points and shoots very well in my hand too.

What it comes down to is, everyone can give a plus or minus about any shortgun and most of these are biases but its all about what you point and shoot best, get that shortgun, shoot and train and believe it is the best for you.

About caliber, I would not get 40SW. I am a 45ACP guy and will always be one. Any cal will work in the hands of the right shortgun and shooter though, I just like the looks and that bigger hole.

Good luck </div></div>

I agree with 45.308. I think that 1911 guys find the XD to be more "pointable" due to the similar grip angle to a 1911. I have owned just about every modern handgun made, and the XD was the best poly gun for me - out of the box. The trigger was crisper, the grip angle was more favorable, and it was accurate. That being said, I did trick out a Glock 17 with a new barrel, trigger, sear, disconnect, etc and it shot amazing! I even started using it for CC. Don't think that this is a matter of reliability because most of these plastic guns are very reliable and have few moving parts. The most important thing for you is to get the one that you're able to shoot the best.

All in all, you'll eventually get a 1911, so it doesn't really matter what you get now! JK!

 

[Downzero]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I really like the S&W M&P because it points even more like a 1911 for me, sitting lower in the hand than the XD. YMMV.

I prefer single action over all others, but if I am stuck with a striker fired gun, the M&P is where it's at.

Both the XD and M&P offer much better triggers, both factory and aftermarket, than the Glock, with the possible exception of the Vanek trigger for Glock, which is exceptional.

 

[pe5b]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I have owned a M&P, XD and XDM. I would say M&P over XD, M&P vs XDM a toss up (both nice)

With that said imo HK all the way, but the OP did not list that as an option.

 

[cheshier2]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

HK is the way..
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...634#Post2127634

 

[springerjb]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Find a way to shoot as many as you can (range, buddies, etc). Nothing can replace first-hand experience. I have Glocks and an XDM. I prefer the XDM and tend to shoot better with it.

 

[widnerkj]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I'd reccomend going to a range that rents so you can try a few options. As well as going with friends that have pistols you want to try. After shooting a few diffrent pistols, you are going to come up with what you like and dislike for your own reasons. I personally loved my H&K USP compact .40 If you can get your hands on one with the LEM trigger, the DA pull feels like a single action.

 

[jhedg]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I dont know about the MP, but I have a XD sub compact and I love it the grip fits me much better then any glock I owned.

 

[SURVIVORTYPE]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I would have to agree with 427 Cobra and Minor damage. They have given points that I would agree with completely.

With that said HK is definitely not worth the money. For the price of one you can have two quality firearms, or buy a Glock or M&P and consider taking a shooting course designed to familiarize yourself with the basics of handgun.

The ergonomics and height over bore issue with a XD just dont match the feel of an M&P in my opinion. The beavertail on an M&P really helps with recoil management. Glocks have always been the standard of reliability but the M&P is approaching that standard. I would go with a M&P if I were you.

The only handgun I feel that approaches these two weapons in reliability, and accuracy out of the box is a Sig Sauer. Although they are a little more. They are also fine handguns. It will just boil down to what platform you are looking to shoot for. Training? Self defense? Concealed carry? All three of these makers in 9mm would be a good choice in my opinion. Dont think that you have to go with a .40 cal or .45 for stopping power. Shot placement is always more important than the caliber. With consistent training comes accurate shot placement. You will save more money in the long run with a 9mm. Good luck with your choice and be safe.

 

[ssatt68]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

What are you going to use it for?
home protection.. CC... matches... pocket gun?
+ 1 on glock
+ 1 on 1911 (kimber or better)
nothing beats a revolver for reliability

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

If you are new to side arms, that means you'll need to put a good number of rounds through to get good.

9mm is really where it's at, especially for high volume shooting.

3rd Gen Glocks in 9mm are really one of the best options on the market. The HK P30 is outstanding, too.

The S&W M&P had the potential to knock Glock down a peg or two, and they're throwing it away. All of the magazine changes, striker upgrades to try to keep them from breaking...they're just not up to full speed yet. They will run for most people...but a lot of guys who shoot a LOT are going back to their Glocks.

The XD is just not a very good option.

 

[pappy42]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

If you can, try before you buy.

Generally speaking; the lower pressure cartridges, ie 9mm or .45ACP offer better shootability and beat up your pistol less than high pressure cartrdges.

 

[chalwie]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

Asking this question will get you dozens of different responses. The great thing is that the handgun market is so competitive, I have yet to read about poor reliability with the major brands. So it comes down to personal preference. A quality gun shop/range will offer many brands to try. You'll feel different about your choices based on other opinions, after you shoot it. First, pick up the gun and make sure it fits perfectly comfortable in your hands. Then, take the narrowed choices on the range and shoot. Recoil, return to aim, and ease of point are important. A general rule is plastic guns make return to aim longer due to less weight. One point I didn't read is this important point. In a stress situation, ease of aim is very important. In that regard, I favor metal over plastic; and a choice often overlooked is CZ72 series. It has a long track record of reliability, and is scary accurate and easy to shoot. The compact version is nary heavier than my Walther P99C and is so much easier returning POA/POI. And it offers old formerly-Communist style quality craftsmanship without the German sticker shock. The CZ 72 is often overlooked, but a surprisingly quality handgun.
Good luck in your choice.

 

[cmh2007]

Re: New to side arms. Need help.

I have shot the M&P and the XD, and can say i like the M&P much better, just fit better. but i am a 1911 guy, that is my carry gun. so if i were to pick one of those two other than my 1911 it would be the M&P.