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New to the forum, new to rifles, not new to being stupid
- Thread starter Gruffy
- Start date
Dan Lilja says that for a 30-338 cal, roughly 25-30 FPS gain for every inch of barrel. When I run the numbers in QuickLoad for different charges etc., I find variance of 35 FPS/ inch barrel or so down toward the 24"-26" lengths, and up towards the 33"-34" those variances have dropped to about 20-25 FPS/ inch barrel for a given charge weight. Having said that, I have a 34" barrel on my 338LM, and can use RL-50 to get the best velocities for a given OBT, with pressures of 57,000 PSI or so, instead of pushing possible pressure situations close to 60,000 PSI. I like the method of finding an accuracy node, and getting there with OBT calculations, and then using a slow powder in a long barrel to get that----barrel lengths change your OBT, but you can calculate OBT, and input barrel length, and then solve for charge weight to get that OBT---then you see the resulting pressure, and I like the pressures I get with the long barrel.
So, what do you consider the magic number for energy needed to ethically dispatch a deer? Let's use a what if to pose this another way. What if you shot a deer at point blank range with a .45 pistol? Would that be enough energy in your estimation? A .45 ACP has between 450-550 Ft.lbs. of energy at muzzle, using a proper load and good ammunition. My .260 still should retain 550-580 ft.lbs. at 1000 yds, using numbers from a ballistics calculator and G7 numbers with a 2770 MV (measured) for 136gr scenar L.
Thus, the answer really does boil down to shot placement ability and the use of a proper projectile that will expand correctly at the MV and energy you retain at 1000 yds., like BoilerUP said.
Thus, the answer really does boil down to shot placement ability and the use of a proper projectile that will expand correctly at the MV and energy you retain at 1000 yds., like BoilerUP said.
Zip code you put it in trumps all.... I have read 300 to 500 pounds depending on the size and proper placement. A 45 pistol at point blank would def do it. Thanks for the info guys. Do you know of a bullet that performs well at 260 like velocities at that range? I am going to do my own research but was curious if anyone here knows of one off the top of their head.
There could be a formula. If it exists I haven't heard of it. If speed is your goal I would do a 6.5 SAUM. I just don't think the 6.5CM has enough case capacity no matter what manageable barrel length you choose. That's just my opinion.
Your opinion seems to be validated by facts. Looking at different bullet options etc., there does not seem to be anything at creed velocities at that range that would perform well or reliably enough to be ethical. I am set on the chambering for 6.5 creed so I may have found a great excuse to cannibalize my old savage next!
Gruffy....I'm running the same barrel, same contour, same length, 6.5 Creedmoor, etc but fitted to a Defiance Rebel action. If I had it to do over I would build it exactly the same. The 28" barrel gives me 2856 FPS avg over my Pact chronograph. I'm reloading to the basic formula of the Hornady factory load but with seating depth adjusted to my chamber/barrel. All the metal rests in a Manners T with mini-chassis and has a Nightforce ATACR on top. The rig weighs 15 ready to shoot. Short barrels have a place, I guess, but not with this cartridge if you want to reap all the benefits.
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If that's what you're thinking, you could go shorter on your 6.5CM. I chopped my old bartlein to 17" and I'm getting around 2600fps with a 140AMAX and 43.5gr of H4350.
I decided I am going to leave it at 28" for the time being. If I find it is too ridiculous then I will get it cut down, but it appears it will work for my purposes. I never mentioned that it is being built by Greg Young at bugholes.com It is good to see positive reviews of him on here. He said it would be a couple of months, so maybe sometime in February I will have the barreled action and I will throw up some photos. The more I look at the Whiskey 3 the more I like it, but I have not gotten any responses from KRG when I have tried to contact them about it.
Very nice!!! Now go out and shoot it!! We want pictures of your targets next.
Thank you for sharing and if you need help, just ask us. We enjoy getting people on the right track, as you are now.
Thanks! I just finished loads and will be off to the range shortly. 140gr berger hunter vlds @ 41grs imr 4350 . First load is just touching and I have backed off 5 groups of shells.010 at a time back to .050. Now to see if I can do my part.... I am going to shoot all of them with a chrony
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I can tell that you do know reloading. This will be an awesome experience for you. That solid base of reloading will serve you very well in the future of long range precision shooting. I have a feeling that you will be teaching us a thing or two about accuracy in the very near future. Enjoy that rifle and we want range reports!!
So my velocities were a bit screwy at first. My average velocity is around 2660 with 41 grs IMR 4350 pushing the berger 140gr vld hunter. the .020 off the lands group is the best group I have every shot!! I measured and it is under .25" at its widest. My standard deviations where nuts at first, shot string one @ SD 23, shot string 2 @32, shot string 3 @ 15, and shot string 4 @4. They started to drop, so I am equating it to barrel break in, but I may need to get a case neck trimmer to even up my tension.
I will slow down the posts in my own thread after this, but I want to put a couple of thanks somewhere in the public domain to recognize some folks:
KRG - Dealing with the guys there has been great, and they went above and beyond in terms of service with me changing my chassis order up the day it was to ship and still getting it out the same day. I did not do my full due diligence and I thought I could eventually switch a fixed version to a folder, but found this was not the case and switched to the folder. They were more than accommodating and I would recommend them to anyone.
Southern Precision Rifles / bugholes.com / Greg Young - Greg spent more time with me on the phone answering questions and educating me due to my novice knowledge than I would ever expect someone to. Everything he told me in terms of delivery dates, etc. was spot on and I could have taken that information to the bank. He built a sub 1/4 MOA barreled action for me for less money and in shorter time than any other smith I could find. Thanks Greg! I know from reading on this forum a lot of people just use him to buy components, but he is good to go for builds!
KRG - Dealing with the guys there has been great, and they went above and beyond in terms of service with me changing my chassis order up the day it was to ship and still getting it out the same day. I did not do my full due diligence and I thought I could eventually switch a fixed version to a folder, but found this was not the case and switched to the folder. They were more than accommodating and I would recommend them to anyone.
Southern Precision Rifles / bugholes.com / Greg Young - Greg spent more time with me on the phone answering questions and educating me due to my novice knowledge than I would ever expect someone to. Everything he told me in terms of delivery dates, etc. was spot on and I could have taken that information to the bank. He built a sub 1/4 MOA barreled action for me for less money and in shorter time than any other smith I could find. Thanks Greg! I know from reading on this forum a lot of people just use him to buy components, but he is good to go for builds!
If bench and prone is your normal way of shooting then ho 28-30". 20" is giving up a lot of speed just to be tacticool. At 25fps per inch, that is 200fps or more. My own F and prone rifles are 30-34", only my 100m dedicated prone competition rifle is 20", and my practical 6x47 folder is 24" (500y max). I don't lug any rifles around, so don't see why you would want to go shorty on a long range rifle. You're neutering a good case without good reason for this style of shooting.
Thats why I kept it at 28". If I was going to shoot it in tactical competitions and run around with the thing on my back all the time I might have gone with a lighter profile and shorter barrel, but this thing is going to be pretty much shot from a bench or off the ground. I am going to ground hunt with it this next deer season. I picked up the camera mount from KRG and a heavy duty bipod capable of holding 15 1/2#...... looking forward to popping a doe at 500! I am going to start shooting in F class matches here and am amped after my load work-up results.
