New US Army Camouflage Selection Leaked

[Killer Spade 13]

I can't remember anything else being used. The only camo that was prior to that was that which was of the WW2 design, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Laseredge]

There was also a camo helmet cover used in VN. Green reverseable to Brown. Maybe that is the green camo being referred to.

 

[MarinePMI]

Perhaps it is this?

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/for...ttach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=286609

 

[Cobracutter]

Yeah, the Marines have always gotten the shaft when it comes to funding and equipment. As a USAF guy myself, I'm well aware of the historical problems associated with the services that are considered "spin offs" of another service. Had the USAF stayed the US Army Air Corps, I'm sure we would be having the same issues with funding and equipment. The real difference is that if the Marines managed to break away from the Navy, there was a strong contingent out there that would claim they didn't do anything that couldn't be done by the Army (which is wrong).

I get the pride thing. There is an element of pride in knowing that if you look at a randomly selected group of military members, you can pick out the Marines because of their uniforms and know who to talk to when you need to get it done. The same applies to the USAF uniform, except I despise the ABU. It's clearly a garrison uniform for office work and maybe maintenance, and not a combat uniform- which is why it was abandoned in theater in favor of the Multicam uniforms.

IMO, there is a lot of gross inefficiency in the various acquisition programs. I've got friends working the UAV/RPA programs. Not a day goes by where he's not tearing his hair out because of the refusal to work together. The Air Force, Army, Marines, and Navy all want predator UAVs for themselves. But they all want to use them differently, and then one wants to use a different engine, while another wants to develop a new engine that beats the other three, but nobody wants to share or use what the guy has because it wouldn't be "home grown" anymore. Another example is the whole F-35 program. At some point, there needs to be some authority over how equipment gets developed and deployed that reduces all the BS that's going on. The whole uniform issue is just another part of that problem.

99.99999% of the Airforce.... Get this... Does office or Maintance work. The guys actualy in "combat" get to wear whatever they want anyway. So it realy doesn't matter now does it?

 

[Cobracutter]

It's a fair point, and one that's been made before by several people. The issue really just comes down to employment of those assets. The Army, Marines, Navy, and Air Force (well...mainly the Air Force) all think very differently on how to best utilize air power. The whole reason that the Army Air Corps was split away into its own service was that the ground-oriented Army generals just did not comprehend what the strategic use of air power could offer them. I had this very discussion a few weeks ago with a bunch of Army captains who just didn't think of air power beyond CAS, medivac, and ISR. If the guy in charge of the whole "US Armed Forces" thinks that way, then it is very likely that funding for programs like strategic assets, satellites, and long range bombing would be lost.

Likewise, the Army and Marine corps methodology and doctrine are very different. This creates variability, and even competition, in how ground power is employed. This is a good thing.

Anyway, IMO, the current structure is fine. The services are responsible for their own training and equipping, and then the assets are assigned to a unified combatant command in the AOR. Basically, we fight just like you described. What I want to see on the acquisition side of things are more unified "centers of excellence" that are responsible for developing and supplying equipment that works across the services, rather than each service trying to develop its own version of the same widget.

Your "thinking" is why the Airforce is such a failure. Supporting the guys on the ground is 90% of what the Airforce SHOULD be doing, and they fail at this massivley. Air force is one big fighter pilot jock club, run by Gentleman officers, not warriors.

The army does not have the luxury of having its own organic capability (which is why the Marines dont ask the AF for shit unless its an absolute nessesity).

Why does the AF keep trying to retire the A10, and then the marines offer to take the platform off their hands... and the funding and support suddeny shows up.
How come after the Army tried to procure what became the C-27 due to a capability Gap, the Airforce swoops in and STEALS the fucking program. Then they never support it. Then they kill the program and send a bunch of brand new, perfectly useable A/C to the scrap yard.......meanwhile the Army this has the same capability gap it had 10 years prior?
I could go on and on and on all day......

Air force needs to be disolved and brought back into the Army. There is no reason for them to be a seperate componet. When they aren't supporting the guys who actualy need them (most of the time), they are losing nukes and trying to stop other branches from developing their own organic capabilities, based on their needs.

 

[Deadshot2]

they are losing nukes

Which was the sole reason for making them a separate entity. The third leg of the MAD strategy.

 

[Cobracutter]

Which was the sole reason for making them a separate entity. The third leg of the MAD strategy.

Not really. Under SAC the Airforce had the Silos and the Bombers. Navy Had the Subs.

 

[BoilerUP]

Everybody loves to hate on the ascot-wearing types....until they are in contact and want air support.

A high school friend of mine is an infantry officer in the 10th Mountain; he told me that during his year un A'Stan "I preferred fighting with my radio instead of my M4" and about how a Hog, Mud Hen, Viper or even Reaper saved his platoon's ass on more than one occasion.

Besides...if you ask most any Air Force pilot (transport, tanker, bomber or even air supremacy types)
they'll tell you their job is to support the folks on the ground.

As for the A10, I met a former Marine F18 pilot that was guard bummin' in A-10s and his words to me were "The Chair Force is too fuckin' good for this plane, it belongs with the Corps." And frankly, I'm surprised AF generals would't be happy to see them go if it got them got a couple more JSFs...

 

[Victory]

I don't care who is on station, as long as they have some JDAMs and want to get down. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a pilot that I'll never get to thank. If you have ever used them, you know what I'm talking about.

As for the uniforms, not sure why they didn't just go with multicam since 75% of us already have them and all loved them. Money grows on trees in this country, the good old debt tree.

 

[Cuda-dude]

Didnt think it was possible to havethree pages of opinion on this.

 

[Deadshot2]

Not really. Under SAC the Airforce had the Silos and the Bombers. Navy Had the Subs.

The Air Force was formed in 1947, long before the Titan I went in the "tubes" in 1959. Until then it was pretty much "Bomber's Only" in the SIOP for the Air Force. In reality, the "Third Leg" of MAD wasn't in place until 1959-1960.

 

[Deadshot2]

I don't care who is on station, as long as they have some JDAMs and want to get down. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a pilot that I'll never get to thank. If you have ever used them, you know what I'm talking about.

I don't think the point is to put anyone down. Just how it might get that ordnance on target quicker if it wasn't for the multiple command layers. Might even serve everyone better with more money available for system development and production. Get rid of the "Marines won't take it because the Army uses it" type arguments.

 

[Cobracutter]

And for every time someone is getting good CAS, there are 10 other times where their Ass is hanging out in the wind. Oh sorry Army LT/CPT, The sun comes up in two hours and A/C-130's don't fly durring the day. Were are going to RTS now, Yes I know we have 100% air supremecy and modern countermeasures have rendered MANPADS all but useless, But we are too valuable... Plus its Salsa Night and were not missing that shit......... Good luck.........

Infantry officers DO NOT FIGHT with their rifle. If an Officer is shooting his rifle, than he is either fucking wrong or his element is about to get overrun. His ass should be on the radio, manuvering elements or talking to the idiots in the TOC/Battle Cpts. Their Job is to fight with the radio. Don't get this twisted.

What some pilot says and what really happens, or how they really think (talk to them about this, and quickly their nature and mindset comes out) is not the same thing. Its the company line.

AF does not want to give up the A10, beacuse its a platform the own, along with all the funding and billets that come along with it. They are also considered Figher A/C, and the AF thinks they own the monopoly of Offensive A/C.

Everybody loves to hate on the ascot-wearing types....until they are in contact and want air support.

A high school friend of mine is an infantry officer in the 10th Mountain; he told me that during his year un A'Stan "I preferred fighting with my radio instead of my M4" and about how a Hog, Mud Hen, Viper or even Reaper saved his platoon's ass on more than one occasion.

Besides...if you ask most any Air Force pilot (transport, tanker, bomber or even air supremacy types)
they'll tell you their job is to support the folks on the ground.

As for the A10, I met a former Marine F18 pilot that was guard bummin' in A-10s and his words to me were "The Chair Force is too fuckin' good for this plane, it belongs with the Corps." And frankly, I'm surprised AF generals would't be happy to see them go if it got them got a couple more JSFs...

 

[Cobracutter]

The Air Force was formed in 1947, long before the Titan I went in the "tubes" in 1959. Until then it was pretty much "Bomber's Only" in the SIOP for the Air Force. In reality, the "Third Leg" of MAD wasn't in place until 1959-1960.

Gotcha. I read your post to mean that each branch had a nuclear deterent as a leg of the MAD Triad.

I'm sure you have some great stories about those days ...

 

[Deadshot2]

Gotcha. I read your post to mean that each branch had a nuclear deterent as a leg of the MAD Triad.

I'm sure you have some great stories about those days ...

You mean about the days of standing by with a Wrecker, Ambulance, Mechanics, and armed guards while a certain "convoy" traveled through your area of Germany?

Or did you want to hear about the M-388 "Davy Crocket" itself? The nuke that could only reach out 2 klicks and maybe even eliminate it's own firing crew. I rotated stateside on year before the last units equipped with it were deactivated.

 

[Cobracutter]

You mean about the days of standing by with a Wrecker, Ambulance, Mechanics, and armed guards while a certain "convoy" traveled through your area of Germany?

Or did you want to hear about the M-388 "Davy Crocket" itself? The nuke that could only reach out 2 klicks and maybe even eliminate it's own firing crew. I rotated stateside on year before the last units equipped with it were deactivated.

OD For all