Newb question

[rlbreakfield]

I want to get into reloading but have no idea what I'm doing. I've read as much as I can but I still have tons of questions. First off I am shooting a Remington factory AAC-SD and a factory tikka T3 both in 308 win. The AAC-SD is a 19" 1:10 and the Tikka is a 22 3/4" 1:11 twist. My Remy is a crossover hunting/long range steel gun and my tikka is a dedicated hunting rig. The Remy likes FGMM 175s and the tikka likes FGMM 168s. Ive always heard to begin reloading, you start with the bullet you want to shoot and build the load around that. I'd like to load a heavier (175+) hunting/long range steel round for the Remy and a lighter (168 -) hunting round for the Tikka. So my first question is, given the factory throats, how do I choose a bullet for each application?

All my hunting is for southern whitetail. Our mature does are usually 100-120 pounds. A mature buck is usually 150-180 pounds. So I'm thinking any medium game bullet would perform fine. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Also, are there any good hunting/target crossover bullets for 308?

 

[TripleBull]

So my first question is, given the factory throats, how do I choose a bullet for each application?

In 308, there are so many options, you're going to have to compare what's available and pick a starting point. Think about how you'd define success and once you get there, go shooting and hunting. You can spend your whole life trying to wring out a 1% advantage.

Also, are there any good hunting/target crossover bullets for 308?

Absolutely. Look at the Nosler Accubonds, Berger VLD Hunting, Sierra Gameking, etc.

Be patient, start low, work up slow, keep asking questions as needed.

 

[BurnOut]

Regarding bullet choice, unfortunately, it's kind of a guessing game... there's no way to know how a given bullet will seat (relative to the lands) in your particular rifle(s) until you get a sample of the bullet and use something like the Hornady OAL gauge and the accompanying modified .308 Win case (https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...tools-and-gauges/oal-gauges-modified-cases#!/). That will allow you to see what the OAL of the loaded round would have to be when your bullet of choice is at the lands. The good news is that both of your rifles are quite popular as is (of course) your cartridge of choice, so there is a lot of info out there to at least get you started in regard to bullet selection.

Speaking of bullets, a good dual use projectile given your twist rates would likely be the Hornady 178 ELD-X, or some of the mid-weight Bergers (though the Bergers will be noticeably more expensive). I'd start with the Hornady, if it was me.

Regarding the actual reloading process, I'd invest in the Hornady headspace comparator set (https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...gauges/headspace-comparator-anvil-base-kit#!/) and a decent set of calipers. This will allow you to take samples of brass fired from each rifle and compare the length from the base to the datum line on the case shoulder. The purpose for doing this is so that you know how to adjust your resizing die. The general rule of thumb in this regard is that you want to bump the shoulder back (with the resizing die) .001-.002 of an inch. More than that, and you're working the brass too much (which will prematurely work-harden, and therefore embrittle, the cases)... and less than that you may end up having trouble chambering the round(s) in a dirty chamber. What you may find is that the case length is different for each of your rifles... so you may need to keep the cases for each rifle separate.

The long and short of it is that there are a number of "universal" techniques that can be applied (such as the two mentioned above in regard to determining your cartridge OAL with the bullet at the lands and using the headspace comparator to determine shoulder setback), but as far as tuning loads that are ideal to each of your rifles, that will largely be a trial-and-error process. The folks here on the Hide are extraordinarily knowledgeable and helpful... so if you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask. I've certainly asked my share of basic questions (and will no doubt continue to do so), so don't be scared to speak up if something is puzzling you!

 

[rlbreakfield]

Thanks guys for the feedback. Yeah so my next step is getting setup with a reloading kit and some tools and beginning to experiment. I've got several manuals and have been reading a good bit. I'm partial to a tipped and or HP bullet. The exposed lead of an SP bullet just bothers me for some reason. I've ran the Sierra Game Kings in the past and the lead deformation on the tip just gives me the willies.

 

[rlbreakfield]

The burgers are definitely attractive my only hesitation is loading to mag length and their sensitivity to seating depth. Does Berger have an offering that works well in mag length and not so sensitive to seating depth that would be a good hunting/target crossover?

 

[rlbreakfield]

How is the ELD-X on game?

 

[rlbreakfield]

My tikka is factory with the factory mags, so I'll be limited to SAAMI length. My Remy is in a KRG with AI mags. My understanding is that AI mags will allow a longer COAL than SAAMI standards.

 

[BurnOut]

How is the ELD-X on game?

Good question... I haven't got any personal experience to offer, but I'll say that on-target performance is part of the design of the projectile (https://www.hornady.com/bullets/eld-x#!/).

I know that it seems like I'm a Hornady fanboy, but I really think that some of the products they offer (the OAL gauge, etc...) and the new ELD projectiles offer something that either isn't readily available elsewhere, or costs noticeably more elsewhere.

Regarding the Berger projectiles, the rule of thumb is that the VLDs tend to be sensitive to seating depth, while Hybrids tend to be less so.

Regarding the Tikka, one of the REALLY cool things about that platform is that you can convert it to a long action with nothing more than a LA bolt stop and the accompanying LA magazines... so if you wanted to go over SAAMI length with your loads, converting it to a long action may be an option.

 

[rlbreakfield]

Oh cool, thanks so much for the feedback and guidance. I've used some of the HSM bergers in my tikka. They didn't group well and left lots of brass and lead fragments in the meat but holy moly everything I shot with them never moved. They just hit the ground, quiver, and are dead.

The ELD-X may be a good starting point.

 

[rlbreakfield]

So The tikka long action conversion, (i'm asking here) so you convert it to a long action to accommodate a longer bolt travel? This will allow the bolt to travel rearward far enough to pick up the longer COAL rounds? What do you do about the magazine limitation? Use magnum length mags with 308 rounds?

 

[spife7980]

You choose a bullet and then hope it works, if it doesnt then you move onto the next. That said I think for hunting the gameking is a top notch hunting bullet. I moved to it from the nosler partitions for price primarily. But the nosler partition, ballistic tip and accubond all perform very well on game. I cant speak to the hornady eldx but I wouldnt doubt it works. The berger classic hunting line should work well but is a bit more explosive from the reports Ive read and they are expensive. Probably the best bet to shoot well though. All of these will wreck a whitetail.

The secant shaped vld bullets are seating sensitive for the most part, so stuff like the berger vld hunting in hornady interlock are a more depth sensitive.

See how the secant vld on top is an angular transitionfrom the nose into the bearing surface vs the tanget of the classic that sort of blends in nicely and smoothly?

In regards to how to chose a bullet based on the throat, thats tough to do without more info. I choose a bullet and find out where it sits with each particular barrel like in this video. A savage will have a tough time doing this test but your rem and tikka shouldnt have an issue with it. This way you know exactly where you are for each particular combo, no guessing around the number.



Until youve put your comparators on your fired brass and seen where you are for each I would keep your brass segregated to which rifle fired it.

On your seating die- get a micrometer topped die, it will make life much easier for switching between the two rifles loads. Personally I would go for two separate sizing dies so I could set one up for each and not bother with switching a die between the two but Im lazy like that.

 

[rlbreakfield]

Yes sir, I have kept all of my fired cases segregated between the two rifles for reloading later. Most all is FGMM spent cases. Thanks for the input on the separate dies.

 

[spife7980]

Thanks for the input on the separate dies.

Now, you could very well luck out and have very little difference between the two and then be fine with one die making two a waste of money, but I hate futzing about with all of that changing up between. However for the lower level hornady/rcbs dies buying the normal paired sets is only 5 bucks more than buying an individual die so you could get two separate set ups all together but I like the micrometer topped seaters that those cheaper pairs dont come with. For a more expensive forster or redding die set ups the pairs arent the same price as the individual dies so buying two pairs the financials arent as close. Buy one nice set up to start and if its a big difference between the two chambers then adding a second sizer later isnt a big deal.

 

[rlbreakfield]

Thx again folks

 

[BurnOut]

So The tikka long action conversion, (i'm asking here) so you convert it to a long action to accommodate a longer bolt travel? This will allow the bolt to travel rearward far enough to pick up the longer COAL rounds? What do you do about the magazine limitation? Use magnum length mags with 308 rounds?

You hit the nail on the head, re: bolt travel... regarding the magazines, again, you're right on point... the Tikka factory mag for the 30-06 Sprg/.270 Win, etc... will have the correct feed lips. Another option to slightly cheat and get a longer COAL would be to use the upcoming mags from Tikka Performance: https://tikkaperformance.com/index.php?_route_=tikka-mags/tikka-billet-magazine

SAAMI max length for the .308 Win is 2.800, and Tikka Performance claims that their short action mag will accommodate up to a 2.900 COAL. Not quite as long as an AI mag (certainly not as long as a LA mag), but if you only need a few hundredths of an inch to get where you want to go, it may be an option. I'm going to try the LA version for my .270 Win... my current load for that rifle is right at SAAMI max length (3.34), and I had to file a small bevel/tip guide into the factory mag to get it to feed. If the Tikka Performance mag lets me seat out to 3.400, then I can load to within .040 of the lands.

 

[spife7980]

If you spend a bit more and get quality pieces instead of a kit that comes with the lowest pieces you might be more happy with it. Bullets.com is closing and has some great prices on some good pieces of kit.

This is a good scale, gempro250 level, for a good price, better than the pocket scales that come with the kits, though a beam that comes with them isnt bad either, depends on the individual kit. 80 bucks. It is so so on trickling sensitivity wth some people needing to tap the tray but it should do well enough, better than the gempro from what Ive read and you wont have the headaches of the pocket scales and you wont have to bend way down to read the beam scale like I was had to with it on my counter top.
http://bullets.com/products/Powder-Scale/BE1188

A great price on the redding boss press 105 bucks
http://bullets.com/products/Boss-Reloading-Press/BL5931

Shell holder for a 308 6 bucks
http://bullets.com/products/Shellholder-1/BL5791

The rest you would need to buy separate:
A trimmer- The giraud triway is around 100 and it trims, chamfers and deburrs all in one. A WFT at 70 bucks is the next best when teamed with a lyman chamfer/deburr tool for 20.

A lee perfect powder measure for 30 would be nice for dumping the initial charges and then finish it off with a trickler, the redding is the heaviest of the generic tricklers at 25 bucks.

A hand primer is the easiest and most convenient, my lee auto prime is perfectly fine for 20 bucks.

The hornady bullet comparators and case headspace comparators are nice. If only doing 308 then buying just the red body and individual bushings are all you need, not the entire kit for all calibers.

A caliper, the 20-30 dollar store brand are fine enough for starting out.

Hornady one shot into a gallon ziploc is the easiest way to start lubing until you find out you want or need something else, 50 cases in the bag, four seconds of spraying and then toss them around inside and let them dry out a few minuets with the bag open. I now make my own and use a cardboard box for essentially the same thing only I stand them up in a corner and the first spray is down into the mouths before jossling them and spraying the bodies.

Cleaning and the lyman 1200 or frankford tumbler when its on sale are perfectibility fine and are cheap.

I cant think of anything else that you would need. Maybe a lock ring if your dies dont come with them?

 

[Nodakplowboy]

Thanks guys for the feedback. Yeah so my next step is getting setup with a reloading kit and some tools and beginning to experiment. I've got several manuals and have been reading a good bit. I'm partial to a tipped and or HP bullet. The exposed lead of an SP bullet just bothers me for some reason. I've ran the Sierra Game Kings in the past and the lead deformation on the tip just gives me the willies.

The last thing you should worry about at this stage is bullet tip deformation. If it bothers you, cut it off . The tiny loss of B.C. will not any any way affect the flight of the bullet unless you plan on shooting whitetails at 600 +. One can do a lot to a bullet tip without any great loss of accuracy. Mess with the base or the crown, that's will cause problems.

Sierra Game Kings are a time proven game stopper. They may not be in style like some of the more current crop of high B.C. bullets but they do work extremely well. Additionally, they have a mild secant profile that is very easy to tune for accuracy. Whitetails are not that hard to down if you park a good projectile in the proper spot. Sierra # 2145 would be an excellent choice. If the lead tip is still an issue try # 2140. Either will work.

 

[rlbreakfield]

Thanks fellas, can't wait to get started!!

What about powder and primers?

 

[spife7980]

What about powder and primers?

I use normal cci 200s for all my large primer stuff, some will say the 250 or the br2 is better by way of more powerful charge and thicker cups but I cant complain. Ive tried them but my loads dont show any improvement with them so I continue to save a penny per. And they are always on the shelf local so I never have to worry about searching.

For 308 varget and 4064 are what I first think of, varget being a bit more temp stable but 4064 always being a solid performer. 4895 also comes to mind but Im not as well read on that powder. There are so many powders these days you dont have to stick with the long time traditional powders, something new like 4166 or cfe223 should work well given some research.

 

[rlbreakfield]

I'll be honest. I'm going to have re-read all this and process through some of what y'all have offered. The picture is becoming somewhat clearer.

Yes sir, I'm probably over thinking the tip deformation on the SGK.

Thanks for suggesting some good equipment. I think I will piece a kit together rather than get a pre asssembled kit.

Thanks so much

 

[rlbreakfield]

Another random thought on this subject. I'm shooting my Remy AAC-SD suppressed. Should I do my load development with or without the suppressor? I've heard bullets can become unstable and tumble when doing load development. I'd hate to wreck a $1k suppressor.

 

[spife7980]

Test it with five shots and see if the bullets are stable at the target, that they makes round holes. If they are then do it with the can on. I don’t think you’ll have an issue with it though with a 10 and 11 twist.

 

[rlbreakfield]

Ok, thx bro