Newbie here. What should I build?

[S3NTYN3L]

I'm a total long gun newb, so please take it easy on me.

I'm wanting something that can accurately/reliably hit a target at 500 yards.

I was looking at the Stag 2T but I've been told that a .308 would be a better fit for 4-500+ yards.

I'm wanting a flat-top with a 4 rail system.
I'd also like to keep the barrel as short as is practical.
This rifle will be used for Home-D as well as hunting, so...

Can anyone assist me with a good build?

My budget is $2500.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

is your budget 2500 include glass. Is this a paper puncher or are you going to try your hand at competitions with this? Are you dead set on a gas gun? Whoever told you a 308 is only good to 4-500 yards is an idiot

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

This is a top 20Q

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: S3NTYN3L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was looking at the Stag 2T but I've been told that a .308 would be a better fit for 4-500+ yards.</div></div>

That's funny.

A 16" .223 is perfectly capable to 500 yards. I don't think I would shoot a match with a 16" but it is capable of hitting what you aim at that far away.

Get the Stag 2T, put a Trijicon Accupoint TR21 on it and learn to shoot it.

DONT hang everything you can find on the rails. Keep it to a light and maybe a VFG.

That will be well suited to HD as well as plinking to 500 yards.

If you are looking to shoot matches then the Model 6 would be better suited (1:8 barrel will handle heavier projectiles). Put a Falcon 4-14x44FFP on it with some Burris XTR rings and drive on. It will suck for HD unless you train well with it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

The gun doesn't make the shooter work, the shooter makes the gun work.

Long guns work best in the hands of actual marksmen.

Honestly, if you haven't shot the heck out of a .22LR, and made it dance to your own tune, maybe this Stag acquisistion is a tad premature.

This is not a criticism or a dig, it's intended as helpful advice to a new long gunner from an NRA Rifle Instructor.

Marksmanship excellence cannot be rushed; it comes from a significant sequence of practice, based on a solid grounding in marksmanship basics.

This practice involves a lot of shooting, and realistically, the kind of volume involved makes using anything more expensive to shoot than a .22LR highly impractical, and maybe also a bit hard to justify. Let's face facts; during this process, a lot of ammo is going to get 'wasted', and it's far better that it be the cheaper stuff.

More importantly, all this shooting can wear out a rifle's throat/bore, and doing it before good marksmanship skills are mastered is simply another kind of needless waste. This kind of consideration simply seldom applies to a .22LR, they are nigh on impossible to shoot out.

Being reasonable about this practically demands that the first long gun be a relatively inexpensive, reliable .22LR; and that some effort be made to obtain good instruction.

Make the marksman; then give the marksman a serious implement to ply his skills.

A .22lr long gun (first gun) is never a waste of anything, unless it's neglected or misused. It will remain a powerful tool for practice and improvement, and the cost of using such an implement simply cannot be beat.

I hope you can take this advice the right way; it's intended as a purely positive effort.

Greg

 

[S3NTYN3L]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whoever told you a 308 is only good to 4-500 yards is an idiot</div></div>

No, no.
They said the .223 was only good out to that range at MOST.
That it, (the .223), was more for under 300 yards.

The .308 would get me out to 4-500 and then some.

To answer your question, yes, my budget would be all inclusive.
Call it $2500 give or take.

I know most of my money will be spent on good glass, so I'm OK with that.

As above, I'm wanting the shortest barrel as is practical.
I have no delusions of entering competitions. I'm much too green and I don't have near enough time in my day for that yet.

I'd like to stay away from a bolt-action if at all possible.

It'll be for, I'd say, about 65-35 target & hunting (respectively).

 

[S3NTYN3L]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I hope you can take this advice the right way; it's intended as a purely positive effort.
</div></div>

Understood.
But, why can't I have BOTH?
Hell, .22's are cheap enough around here.

I can always amend my previous with something like:

I'll use the .22 for practice and the big boy for everything else.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for bettering myself as a marksman, but I've so far been doing so with a friends toys and money...

 

[Mgordon]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

Ok, I have a suggestion. You can pick up a SPR'ish AR-15. Something like this one, 18" barrel, FF handguards, ect... You can probably get one for a little over $1500 (not including glass, mount and possibly as nice equipment) Then you can find a good Leupold Mk4 in the Equipment Exchange for around $800, get a good set of rings or spend $200 for another Larue SPR mount. That will put you with a complete gun and glass at your $2500 mark. Also, you can just have a .22 LR upper installed down the road, that way you are getting trigger time with your same stock, pistol grip and trigger.

Here are some pictures.

Here is my Dedicated .22 LR rifle, I can swap out the upper and mag and put in on any other lower and its ready to rock and roll.

These are both my personal rifles, but I'm going to part them out soon. I can help you build just about anything you want, or help point you in the right direction. Send me a pm or give me a call if you need any help. We're all Newbies at one time or another.

 

[patches]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

.223 at 500 yards is not a problem. Guys have been taking to a mile (1760 yards) there was just a post about it on here. Take some time and use the search engine. You will find a wealth of knowledge on the hide.

I don't know who is telling you this garbage about .223's and 308's but totally disregard anything they say. Do some HEAVY research and develop your own opinion.

As a recommendation, guys have been having fantastic luck with the LTR and use the rest of your cash for glass. Jut my 2 cents.

 

[jaw921]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

I'm gonna recommend to just get a standard flat top AR15, whether it's a 16" or 20". Decide on a good optic and go shoot. Use it also to learn how it operates and how to maintain it. In the serice we were consistently hitting 500 yard targets just using iron sights with our M16's and M4's.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

If you hand load checkout www.6mmar.com or call robert whitley.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a top 20Q </div></div>

I lost this....where did it go......

 

[Chiller]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

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does anybody have a running score on how many times this has been asked?

 

[desertHK]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

I would suggest a good 22LR for pratice of your marksmanship techniques. A bolt 308 instead of a gas gun. There is nothing wrong with a gas gun.

 

[wildcats]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

Langelius said it well,

My opinion,
just go out and buy and OTB remi heavy varmint 308,throw on a good trigger and bedding job, decent scope and start shooting.do that for 2-3 thousand rounds.you will learn more in a day at the range than any answers you get in here.no offense to anyone
spend the extra money on some really good reloading components.

 

[steve123]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: S3NTYN3L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a total long gun newb, so please take it easy on me.

I'm wanting something that can accurately/reliably hit a target at 500 yards.

I was looking at the Stag 2T but I've been told that a .308 would be a better fit for 4-500+ yards.

I'm wanting a flat-top with a 4 rail system.
I'd also like to keep the barrel as short as is practical.
This rifle will be used for Home-D as well as hunting, so...

Can anyone assist me with a good build?

My budget is $2500. </div></div>

Give Scott at Specialized Dynamics a call 480-968-2151.Why not have a custom AR built.500Y is no prob for 223...If the wind isn't blowing too much,that is.6.5 grendel is a good long range cartridge also.

Steve

 

[Chiller]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: S3NTYN3L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a total long gun newb, so please take it easy on me.

I'm wanting something that can accurately/reliably hit a target at 500 yards.

I was looking at the Stag 2T but I've been told that a .308 would be a better fit for 4-500+ yards.

I'm wanting a flat-top with a 4 rail system.
I'd also like to keep the barrel as short as is practical.
This rifle will be used for Home-D as well as hunting, so...

Can anyone assist me with a good build?

My budget is $2500. </div></div>

Give Scott at Specialized Dynamics a call 480-968-2151.Why not have a custom AR built.500Y is no prob for 223...If the wind isn't blowing too much,that is.6.5 grendel is a good long range cartridge also.

Steve

</div></div>

Just dont have him do your load development.....

 

[Guest]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: S3NTYN3L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a total long gun newb, so please take it easy on me.

I'm wanting something that can accurately/reliably hit a target at 500 yards.

I was looking at the Stag 2T but I've been told that a .308 would be a better fit for 4-500+ yards.

I'm wanting a flat-top with a 4 rail system.
I'd also like to keep the barrel as short as is practical.
This rifle will be used for Home-D as well as hunting, so...

Can anyone assist me with a good build?

My budget is $2500. </div></div>

Ok, let me help you with a couple of things.

1.) if you are able to admit you are a "newb" to long guns, I would strongly suggest taking Greg's advide and focusing on fundamentals and a .22lr

I know that is not what you want to hear, but it is the truth. I know it doesn't sound like much fun, and if you insist on going about things your way, please consider the following:

IF YOU ARE A "NEWB", YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS WHAT SO EVER DOING A "BUILD". WHY?

- Builds are for people who know EXACTLY what they want, and eliminating what they don't. Since you are new, you have no basis of determining a large majority of your specifications. Can you honestly tell me what trigger pull you want down to the oz? What barrel length and twist? And those the eazy questions.

- Builds are expensive, time-consuming, and complicated. You should be focusing in simplicity, reliability, and repeatability

- Assuming you have the time and money for a "build", you will be faced with questions that as a "newb" you will not be able to answer. This is taking time away from you that could be spent training, time away the gunsmith could be working, and time away from seasoned, discrimination could be having their guns being built to their exacting specifications.



ALSO, IF YOU ARE A "NEWB" YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS WHAT SO EVER USING SAID RIFLE HOME DEFENSE.
(Granted I don't know your home state or living conditions i.e. rural, urban, suburban)

- There are a myriad of other firearms that would better suit a basic home defense need for the average citizen. This is especially true to someone like yourself who has little to no experience with rifles. With your minimal training, their length, power, and penetration would render the rifle as a liabilility to your HD needs. Plus i'm assuming that you will be using magnified optics (to reach out to 500y), which will add to the complication of CQB.

- Any other Home Defense is subject to your state's use of deadly/lethal force laws.

I think you have some things to think about before making a purchase. Sorry about all of the criticism, but i'm sure am not alone in my thinking.
That being said and assuming you are serious about legitimate, safe, and practical, here are my recommendations that are under your budget:

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c6-q9-Colt_Rifles.aspx#
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145623589
and
http://swfa.com/Leupold-35-10x40-Mark-4-LRT-30mm-Riflescope-P94.aspx

OR

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltr.htm
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145132840
and
http://www.eurooptic.com/Nightforce...2_Mildot_reticle_Milrad_Zero_Stop_Turrets.htm

 

[OFIS]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

read well grasshopper, you are getting nothing but solid gold nuggets of info.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

S3;

Best answer, no reason. Considering your reply, I'd say you got the message 100%.

All I'll say about Home-D is that my Home-D plans involve a 20ga semi with a youth-length barrel. More energy, less wall penetration, still nimble and tame enough for the wimmenfolk to use comfortably, and more versatile (each shot of 20ga puts 20 pellets of #3 buck downrange, that's the functional equivalent of emptying a 20rd mag from your Stag. Holds 5 and one, that's the equivalent of 6 full mags from the Stag. Using a rifled choke tube allows damned fine accuracy with slugs, and swirls the buck into a nice wide pattern at short range).

If you want a decent semi that handles effective midrange ammo, at a reasonable price, and that doesn't raise LE eyebrows, try the Remington M750. MSRP's.

Greg

 

[Hellbender]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

If you are set on a gas gun...

S&W M&P 15-.22 - $500 + $100 in .22 ammo - $600

Any decent (Colt,Stag,S&W, etc) flat-top 16" bbl carbine - $1000, and either a good red-dot or 1-4 variable scope - $400, $200 in ammo

Buy a cheap pump 12 or 20 gauge shotgun for HD -$300

$2500 total and if you shop around, you could beat all this by another $100-200 or so.


Shoot for a couple of years, learn what you really need/want and you will probably make $$ on all this when you decide to step up.

These 16" AR's will shoot 5-7" groups at 500 yards with decent ammo, but that doesn't mean YOU will be able to without some practice and training.

 

[SilentX]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: S3NTYN3L</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This rifle will be used for Home-D as well as hunting, so... </div></div>

S3,

What are you hunting?

 

[S3NTYN3L]

Re: Newbie here. What should I build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SilentX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

What are you hunting?
</div></div>

White tail, mostly.
Maybe some hogs every now and then.
Some small game.

Who knows...

I've never really been into hunting.
Not since I was in my early/mid teens.
But lately, friends have been turning me back on to it.