Newbie looking for adivce for rifle purchase

[Geneva]

I've been lurking on the forum for a few weeks and hope you can all give me some good advice. I've been shooting for about a year with .22 handgun, 9mm Glock 17 and a BCM 16" 5.56 carbine which is my favorite thing in the whole wide world. I work with a trainer but he's currently out of the country for a while.

I would like to start moving more towards longer distances with the goal of competing locally way off in the future. I've got a budget of around $2000 and I could stretch it a bit if I have to, but I'd rather not go into debt. I figure if I do well enough, I can justify a more expensive purchase later on. I hover between an AR10 platform and a bolt action gun, but I would rather have a bolt if I can find one that is not too heavy for me (I'm a girl). Threaded barrel is something I think is important to me so I can add a compensator, but you all can tell me if I'm wrong on that. I've been looking at a lot of different guns, but I keep coming back to the Remington SPS ACC-SD 20" barrel. The price of the gun would give me room for a decent optic too. Opinions? Other models or brands that you would recommend for a beginner? Thanks for any help!

Edited to add I don't know enough yet to build my own so I'm looking for a stock gun.

 

[308sniper147]

This would be my exact setup......
Remington 700 AAC-sd $600 if you shop
Weaver 20moa base $30
Seekins low 30mm rings $105
Bell and carlson (lightweight tactical) I believe is what it's called $250 or so new 200 used
(To have good consistency you will need something other than the crappy houge stock eventually)
Triad large stock pack $45 just to help get a better consistent cheek weld
Brake of your choice $150 or less
Vortex viper pst 4-16x50 $800 or less used on here.

That's just one mans opinion. Puts you under your 2000 limit. Also, it's great to see more women getting I to the sport! Best of luck to you and don't feel afraid to ask questions!


Andrew

 

[Geneva]

Thanks Andrew any idea/ballpark what that setup would weigh?

 

[strike33]

You can get a good tac match style rifle with a 20" Remington varmint contour barrel Within 12 pounds and lighter. The optics selection will determine a large portion of your weight as well

 

[strike33]

Remington 5R with the 20" threaded barrel would also be a great place to start. Then you just need the base, rings and scope

 

[Geneva]

Is the vortex in the same ballpark as the Leupold Mark 4? Asking because I already have a LM4 that I bought for the BCM and ended up using an aimpoint on it instead.

 

[cshann55]

Just my 2 cents as Im a relative newbie as well.
I recently put together a Remmy aac-sd in 20 inch, B&C medalist 3, with millet 20 moa rail and millet medium rings with a SWFA 10x42. Had enough money left over to put on a fancy bolt knob and an Atlas and stay under the $2 grand mark. Im very happy so far.

As always, its all up to what you want. The weak point on the 700 is the hogue stock. If you dont like working the wrench buy a 5r and you start off right.

 

[strike33]

If you already have a MAC then you should be good to start with. The big thing that the leupy is missing is matched torrent and reticle. What model is it?

 

[Geneva]

I believe its a lr/t cost around $1100 4.5 - haven't even taken it out of the box yet and it would save me money to use what I already have.

and you lost me here... matched torrent and reticle no idea what that means

 

[oinco]

Alternately, I would suggest a Tikka T3, perhaps the sporter in a 20" .260, as it has an adjustable stock and would make you pretty much forget about the existence of the aac-sd. The cost difference would mostly vaporize if you tried to bring that Remington up to be more of an apples/apples comparison. (+stock, +trigger, bolt throw, etc). Nothing against Remington, but there are substantial advantages here imho.

Here is a quick link to one of the site sponsors: Tikka T3 Sporter, 20" bbl .260 Rem JRTN421 for Sale!

Very good match ammo is available if you don't handload, and the improvement in ballistics and felt recoil over a 308 is indisputable.

Have fun!

 

[Roddd]

I recommend before you make a purchase, continue reading here. There's a lot of experience, I know I learn a lot every time I'm on here. Also, window shop in the classifieds here. It'll give you a good idea on what stuff is going for and is an excellent source for finding good deals. If you can stretch your budget slightly AND buy used here, you'll be very happy.

As for caliber, I'll recommend the 6.5 Creedmor. Match ammo is typically cheaper than 308 match ammo, and it shoots much better and has low recoil.

Welcome to the sport. It's addicting and your wallet (or purse) may hate you, but you'll have a ton of fun.

 

[308sniper147]

Matching turrets and reticle just means if you have a mildot reticle make sure you have mil value turrets. And vise versa with MOA. And with a 20" barrel you could stay under 11.5-12lbs. Which is really light in my opinion.

 

[Geneva]

I can see I'm going to be learning to gunsmith already. Thanks for all the input I will research it all.

 

[lash]

Do not be intimidated by it all at first. Just take a bit more time to read and get familiar with some of the terms and information already posted above. It seems like you are already getting good advice, now you just need to understand it all before pulling the trigger (so to speak).

Don't hesitate to use google (or Bing if that's your thing) if you don't find it here right away. Often a search will lead you right back here to a thread that talks about what you're interested in.

And in answer to your largely unasked question, you will likely be better served from a fundamentals point of view if you do start with a bolt gun, particularly if it is long range or precision shooting that is your goal. Not that you cannot do this using an AR10 style weapon, because you can. Just my opinion. And so that you know, I'm no expert and not experienced at all compared to many on this forum, but I listen well, read a lot, shoot as much as possible and try to learn from it all. You will be well served to do the same.

 

[jimbowe]

Lots of good advice here on the Hide.

I'd keep your Leupold Mk4. If you have a mil-dot reticle and MOA (minute of angle)-based turret adjustment then it will force you to learn both. It's sort of like having to use both metric and English measurements. You can always buy a new scope later, and you've already got a good one. Buy your rings after you have the rifle, scope and scope base(s) to get the scope mounted as low as you can.

If you are shooting for maximum accuracy (prone or bench) your rifle will be supported by a bipod or some sort of front rest, in which case the weight should mostly be a concern for transport. Just depends on how you want to use it. Shooting slung up and/or offhand is becoming something of a lost (and very cool) art, but then the weight is more of a factor.

I would go with a bolt gun because that is where you will get the most accuracy. Savage makes a good one for the money (as does Howa and others mentioned), and Harris bipods are quality. On less expensive factory rifles a stock upgrade is often a good bang for the buck. If the stock comb is not adjustable then you will probably need something to get a proper cheek weld -- Karsten cheek rest (my preference but requires drilling), stock pad or foam and duct tape.

You can get a deal on used gear, but I recommend asking a lot of questions, getting pictures, etc. before buying. It helps if you are buying from someone with a good feedback score, and also if you get a feeling from the advertisement and correspondence that they are not just trying to dump a lemon (of course). You will be rolling the dice a bit, but you do that even when buying new.

Your best investment may be time spent understanding how you will use the tools before spending money on them.

 

[cotntop]

Roddd has it right. The simple way to go is with 6.5CM. From 100yd to 1000yd with factory ammo is simple and fun to shoot.

 

[09jisaac]

Geneva, long range shooting isn't something that is very complicated. It just seems that way on the surface.

Gun-smithing is quite different than just assembling pieces of a system. Most people mate the base (or bases) to the action themselves because it is not that hard. Then you add the rings to mount the scope. Mounting the scope isn't difficult either, but everybody seems to have a different way of doing it. The important thing is to have it so you can lay your head on the rifle and look through the scope without adjusting yourself.

Leveling the cross hairs won't help you any unless you have a scope level. Just try to get the scope so you cannot notice a cant while looking through it.

People spend big bucks to get the scope level to the gun, I have never seen this to make a difference. The important thing is to level the scope to the world. While you are comfortable, leveling the scope to the world may mean that the rifle is canted. This isn't a problem.

You just need to make sure that the scope adjustments are moving the shoot exactly right, not diagonal.

 

[dorklord]

There's a lot of good advice above. The choice of rifle brand is like Ford vs Chevy or any other such debate: there's advantages and disadvantages to any brand. Personally, I felt the easy availability of so very many aftermarket parts made the Remington 700 the right choice for me. It also didn't hurt that I already had another Remington 700 and liked it.

Regardless, if you've got a scope, I say go ahead and put the rifle together with that scope. Putting the scope base, rings, and scope on are all things that can be done by pretty much anyone. Putting a different stock on a rifle can also be. Bedding of parts is a bit more involved, but you can certainly get the rifle set up and start shooting without it.

The threaded barrel thing is entirely a personal choice. If you really think you'll want one, then I'd get the rifle with the threaded barrel, as getting a barrel threaded later on will probably cost more than the initial price difference.

There's a lot of great stuff to read on here, but don't get intimidated! You don't need to do all the things that some people on the forum have done to improve the accuracy of their rifles, though some day down the road you may want to!

 

[culater]

Thunder Valley Precision Head Hunter Stg 3 Margaret hits 4/5 - YouTube

This lady can shoot she is shooting a 308 win.

 

[308Gunner]

Welcome and as stated above I would look at one of the 6.5 calibers, if you are going to get into reloading I would go with the 260 if not a 6.5 creed. I have a 308 surgeon that tips the scale @ 15 pounds and while my wife will shoot it she does NOT like to for extended sessions, for that she will take my/her 260. The 260 does not have a break and weighs around 12 pounds loaded, have fun.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Surprised to be the first to suggest a 223.

The OP makes no mention of hunting, and says match shooting is a long ways off (not that a 223 can't hang out to 600 yards).

223 is much cheaper to shoot and has a lot less recoil.

Only trouble with 223s is not many rifles on the market with 1:8 twist, which confines you to 69gr bullets....which are really at their limit at 600 yards.

Still, she can shoot out the first barrel and then rebarrel to a 1:7 or 1:8 twist, or step up to a bigger cartridge.

Tikka and Howa are VERY underrated. Howa 1500 is the BEST value going. Better rifle than a Remington or a Savage, and cheaper too.

 

[Gildoom]

My 2 cents, don't run off buying optics, use that Mark 4 for now like others have pointed out. I'd suggest steering a tad bit away from the AR platform, for your budget and for the general idea that you want to go more long range. The advantages of the 6.5 Creedmoor is spot on. However, sometimes ammo can be a pain in the butt to find, and 308, even goofy weights that are light will still equal trigger time. Frank has some great videos, which will help you a massive amount, when I started doing this back in 2009 I thought 600 yards was a long shot. That is just regular now and we like to work in the 800~1000 yard range. All of my abilities come from the folks here on the Hide.

There are some really great rifles that do not cost much, but if you plan on moving "up" in rifles, bolt guns can take a bit to sell if you intended to trade up. I know I told you to not worry about the scope changing, however, one thing that was a huge easy thing for me to grasp was the mil/mil setup in scopes. I got rid of my MOA scopes, now there are many folks that love MOA and I am not looking to ignite that debate remotely, just for me, mil/mil is so simple I love it.

I also really enjoy shooting long range with my 223's, as Hodgdonextreme points out, it is a fine caliber, and I used 69gr BTHP's which gave me great success out to 800 yards for hitting steel, regularly even with wind.

Guns that we each like are so heavily dictated in opinion and quite honestly what we own. Hopefully I helped some, recapping from my point of view...

Bolt, 308, use your scope, later on down the road you'll have a better idea what you really "want" which as I have found over the last few years has changed drastically from where I thought I was going.

 

[ratrod54]

I agree with sticking with the Mark 4 but just in case you decide to look at optics...

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...st-4-16x50-ffp-ebr1-moa-rifle-scope-$775.html

 

[jakelly]

I would consider a tikka t3 in 223. They have a 1 in 8" twist, so you can shoot they heavy for caliber bullets at longrange. That rifle will nearly certainly give you a MOA or better load. There is plenty of match grade ammo available and it is cheaper than any other round to learn with. You already shoot 223 so your brass can be saved for future use in handloading. Spend a thousand on an hdmr go cheaper on the rifle, because at this price point it's easier to get into an optic you won't quickly out grow than it is a rifle. In terms of learning it's probably more important at this point anyhow.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I would consider a tikka t3 in 223. They have a 1 in 8" twist, so you can shoot they heavy for caliber bullets at longrange. That rifle will nearly certainly give you a MOA or better load. There is plenty of match grade ammo available and it is cheaper than any other round to learn with. You already shoot 223 so your brass can be saved for future use in handloading. Spend a thousand on an hdmr go cheaper on the rifle, because at this price point it's easier to get into an optic you won't quickly out grow than it is a rifle. In terms of learning it's probably more important at this point anyhow.

I had forgotton the Tikka T3 was available in 223 with 8 twist.

This would be a *GREAT* choice to meet the OPs requirements.

 

[shamir]

I started off in long range shooting with a Savage model 10 FCP-K in .308. Great shooting rifle which held sub-MOA easily and shot way better than I could. I put a Millet 4-16x50 SFP scope on it, with a cheap UTG bipod and rings. I took an introductory long range course from SniperCentral.com last June, and was able to repeatably hit steel at 1000 yards with 175 SMKs.

The course also made me realise how bad the stock was for long range shooting. My scope rail came loose as well, which was another lesson in price vs. durability. I then bought a Tikka T3 Sporter in .260 Remington with the 24" barrel, and moved the Millet over to it. Its a dream to shoot, and the stock is much more comfortable with the adjustable cheekpiece. I would have preferred 6.5 Creedmoor since I don't reload, but I've gotten 1/2 moa groups with Southwest Ammo .260, so no complaints.

My recommendation:
- Savage LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor or Tikka Sporter in .260 Remington. If you get the Savage, you should probably replace the stock or at least get a good cheek piece like the Karsten.
- Don't cheap out on accessories. Atlas or Harris bipod, good rings/base (tikka performance bases work great).
- Vortex, SWFA, or Sightron S3 scope. Some good info here - Reviews: Riflescopes » OpticsThoughts

Have fun. Its an addictive sport.

 

[Vio515]

As mentioned before keep your current scope as that will allow you to pick up a higher end rifle.

I'll add anoother vote to the Tikka T3 Sporter in 223. The 1:8 twist rate should shoot 77 gn SMKs without issue.
Tikka T3 Sporter


On your note about gunsmithing, I "bolted" my rifles together with components. All you really need is a set of bits and an inch/lbs torque wrench and you can bolt together a very nice rifle.

Good luck

Matt

 

[shamir]

Just read jake's comment and makes a lot of sense. You can't go wrong with a Tikka T3 Sporter in .223, .308, or .260. But if you're just starting in, .223 might not be a bad choice. Heck, he's almost persuaded me to get one in .223 now.

Shamir

 

[Geneva]

Thanks I appreciate all the advice. I'm doing a lot of research this weekend, around my work schedule. A friend said I could come shoot his .308 Remington 700 SPS to see How I like the .308.

I'm not familiar with 6.5 cr but now I'm curious if anyone would recommend the AA 6.5 grendal? The upper would fit my ar15 lower. NOT considering this over a bolt gun, just wondering if the grendal upper would be worth having. I know ammo for it is pricey. One of the reasons I was going with .308 is because ammo is plentiful in that cal around here.

 

[09jisaac]

6.5 creedmoore and 6.5 grendal are two different beasts.


I would stick with the Creedmoore if you want a 6.5.


I think for a beginner, the .308 or the .223 is hard to beat. Trigger time is what you need and .308 and .223 are cheap and plentiful.

 

[Longshot chaser]

I think a savage 12lrp in 6.5 creedmoor or the tikka in .223 would be your best choices. Lighter recoil so to not develop a twitch and more enjoyable to shoot,cheaper ammo for more trigger time and the hide training vids would defiantly be worth the investment. If you do go the .308 route don't count out the howa heavy barrel I have one 24" heavy barrel helps with recoil and 1:10 twist will spin the heavier projectiles if need arises great out of the box guns with the Boyd's stocks

 

[Kirkd]

I think that done if the caliber choices would depend on 1) wether or not you reload . If you do, then that opens up several good options. 2) are you recoil sensitive? 3) your definition of long range.

Also be aware that the lighter the gun, the more "felt" recoil that you have.

Also, you will lose some velocity in a 20" barrel over say a 24-26" barrel.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Vp H cmhbffc

 

[lash]

...I'm not familiar with 6.5 cr but now I'm curious if anyone would recommend the AA 6.5 grendal? The upper would fit my ar15 lower. NOT considering this over a bolt gun, just wondering if the grendal upper would be worth having. I know ammo for it is pricey...

You will enjoy the 6,5 Grendel upper, but maybe should wait on that until you start reloading, as that is where you'll find it works best for you.

 

[bogeybrown]

IF you decide to look into a gas gun, there's been some good initial impressions on the Gen II DPMS rifles that were just released. Several of the comments are that it is incredibly light for a .308 gas gun. Some range reports should be forthcoming. Here's one of the threads on it:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...rifles/235280-holy-smokes-dpms-g2-rifles.html

If you get serious about considering a gas gun, since you already love your AR, then I'd recommend contacting Elfster. I believe he started the thread I linked and he spends a good bit of his time on the Semi-Auto board. He's a wealth of info, and helped me out when I was helping a new female shooter to select her first rifle.

 

[kennypowers]

Newbie looking for adivce for rifle purchase

Id go with the Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC in .308. You can find these between $550-600. Pick up a good quality scope (SWFA, Vortex Viper, Bushnell Tactical Elite), bipod, base and rings and spend the remaining on ammo. You could shoot conventional FGMM 168 or 175 but I'd try Southwest ammo's 155gr. Shoot the barrel out of this then you have a variety of options to chamber your next barrel in when you know what you really want. This is just my opinion/2 cents


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Geneva]

Thanks for all the good advice from everyone. For those recommending Tikka rifles, how much stuff is available for them aftermarket?

 

[09jisaac]

Thanks for all the good advice from everyone. For those recommending Tikka rifles, how much stuff is available for them aftermarket?

You shouldn't need much. You can find stocks for them, barrels have to be made for each rifle anyways and they already have good triggers.

 

[Geneva]

So I want to thank everyone for their recommendations. In addition to the research I had done before I posted, I have spent this week endlessly combing through different rifles in my price range and comparing features looking for something that would have all the things I wanted in the out of the box rifle because I will no doubt be shooting it stock for a while until I know better what I like. I made my choice and placed my order with my local gun shop, and it should be here by Saturday. I went with the Tikka T3 Tac 20" barrel .308 It's my first, doesn't have to be perfect, just has to get me started. Maybe when my birthday comes around in July, I'll add a 6.5CR to my collection.

 

[JayMazee]

Rem 700 AAC or Tikka, in 308.

The 700 is going to have a LOT more options. The Tikka will be more expensive but require less. They'll both shoot well.

Warning,
Tikka may lead you into AI or Sako eventually. This will cost you.
Rem 700 AAC may lead you into custom 700 actions eventually. This will also cost you.

Personally, I'm going the custom 700 route for my next rifle because of favor/buddy deals. But, if I was just a normal dude with no hookups... Tikka. Get something that can shoot under a minute (shouldn't be hard) and move along.

I'd rather a stock 700 and some really good trigger time than an AI PSR that I can't afford ammo after paying for.

 

[usmc02xx]

I've been lurking on the forum for a few weeks and hope you can all give me some good advice. I've been shooting for about a year with .22 handgun, 9mm Glock 17 and a BCM 16" 5.56 carbine which is my favorite thing in the whole wide world. I work with a trainer but he's currently out of the country for a while.

I would like to start moving more towards longer distances with the goal of competing locally way off in the future. I've got a budget of around $2000 and I could stretch it a bit if I have to, but I'd rather not go into debt. I figure if I do well enough, I can justify a more expensive purchase later on. I hover between an AR10 platform and a bolt action gun, but I would rather have a bolt if I can find one that is not too heavy for me (I'm a girl). Threaded barrel is something I think is important to me so I can add a compensator, but you all can tell me if I'm wrong on that. I've been looking at a lot of different guns, but I keep coming back to the Remington SPS ACC-SD 20" barrel. The price of the gun would give me room for a decent optic too. Opinions? Other models or brands that you would recommend for a beginner? Thanks for any help!

Edited to add I don't know enough yet to build my own so I'm looking for a stock gun.

welcome to the hide. im sure you're seeing many opinions already Im on the bandwagon of a remington 5r and keep your glass. Honestly, even one of the cheap remmy tacticals are fairly decent rifles. And lots of extras as you grow. I love my tikkas. but its a pain in the ass to get parts/cool stuff. Glad to have you around. Good shooting.

 

[Geneva]

JNZ I think we were posting at the same time, I ordered my Tikka earlier today

 

[shamir]

Welcome to the Tikka club . Which one did you end up getting? Also, KRG has a new light-weight chassis which is due to ship in April - might be a good upgrade to the standard tikka stocks.

 

[09jisaac]

Which one did you end up getting?

I went with the Tikka T3 Tac 20" barrel .308

.