Newbie needs advice/help

[chrisfs]

Hi everyone,

First and foremost thanks in advance for all the help/advice I may receive. I'm VERY new to this world of shooting, I mainly shoot 1911's and am into tactical rifle shooting ( AR-15 style ). I've been looking into getting my hands on a long range rifle for years now and almost ready to pull the trigger ( no pun intended ). I'm totally lost on scopes though and mounting rings etc... I need to read up on that more. At the moment there are no ranges that go out past 100 yards in my area but one is being built that goes out to 500 yards which is pretty awesome and that sparked my decision to dive in.

I was first set on a Remington 700 variant and was looking at changing out the stock to either a MacMillan or an XTR stock, then I started looking at the Tikka T3's and now have found myself eyeing the Savage F/TR model 12. The last looks like a beautiful rifle with amazing accuracy out of the box and all I would have to do is throw a scope and bipod on it and should be good to go at 500 yards ( over simplifying of course, I don't expect tight groups at that distance instantly of course ). Scope wise I have no clue what to get... I would like something with a variable zoom, to my understanding 4-12X 30mm would work well out to 500 and still be useful at 100 yards ?

So... I'm ready to get schooled on this one, once again thanks for any and all advice guys...

Chris

 

[Delta4-3]

Double tap...see below

 

[Delta4-3]

I am a machinist, so I look at the craftsmship and quality of a weapon a little more closely than most. The tikka is as cheap as the other two and way higher quality. Remington to me has the worst workmanship in the industry, but the most aftermarket parts. Who cares if there are a bazillions aftermarket parts though, as long as someone makes the ones you want. I vote tikka, best factory bolt gun under $1k, period.

Tikka Bolt-Action Varmint Rifle : Cabela's

That is so much gun for the money, it's not even funny. If you don't like the caliber, just change the barrel. And it comes with a Sub MOA guarantee and a detachable box mag.

 

[VKC]

Kinetic Research Group's Whiskey-3 Chassis for the Tikka T3

 

[Pat M]

don't go spending money on a fancy stock until you try out a few, too many guys have bought and then sold in a month loosing couple hundred dollars in the deal. Moat stocks that aren't tupperware will do fine until you find what fits your need and feels right.

 

[chrisfs]

Thanks for the tips, that makes sense I should try it out prior... Any thoughts on the scope ? Do you guys think the F/TR style is wrong for a first time long range rifle ?

 

[Hawk45]

Do they still import the Tikka Varmint? Didn't think they did.

I think the best bang for buck right now in a beginner LR shooting package is the Savage LRP (pick caliber of choice).

 

[anthonylapoint]

Don't get caught up with fancy shit before you even shoot. If you are wondering if you're going to like long range shooting or not, don't blow a lot of money at first. I always tell my noob friend, lets go look at the used racks first. Sometimes you can score a sweet deal, either a used Remington 700 with an HS stock or a used Savage with a Choate stock. (SPS or model 10) Both should shoot sub MOA easily and at 500 yards, it won't be hard to keep that out to there. Once you like it, you can modify the piss out of them. If not, well you can post it here and it'll sell. A good used scope here on the hide like a Leopold VXIII or Mark 4 should be under 1k. Those are real reliable, track well and are real clear. Over 16x zoom and you get bad mirage and camt see the target anyway most the time. A good teacher teaches you to shoot on less power. There is other good scopes, but under 1k it hard not to stick to the brands with great reputations. Keep it simple till you figure out what direction to take. It'll take a few years of shooting before you realize you are consistently drawing to one kind of long range shooting.

 

[chrisfs]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, I guess there's a natural inclination to want to get a badass rig right out of the gate... I'll keep an eye out for deals then, thanks again guys!

 

[anthonylapoint]

If you can afford it, by all means spend what you want. If not, money is better spent on a good base, rings and scope. Most the time, a good used savage or remington with decent ish stocks will out shoot the shooter.

 

[ELR Shooting Range]

What anthonylapoint said! I am a dealer and also have a long range shooting range (currently out to 2,701 yards off of a shooting platform with three sides operational now (north, west, and south) with steel targets and the ability to shoot to at least a mile off of all three sides). We see all sorts of rigs come through. I equate what to buy to, "do you drive Ford, Chevy, Dodge", at least that is some of the opinions you will get. For starters, again, anthonylapoint spoke true in regards to the rifles and scopes. I see too often these Border Patrol guys and average Joe's wanting to spend $1,000+ on a rifle and then $250 to $300 on a scope. This should be reversed. I am not talking down on these newbies, it's just lack of knowledge but stepping up is the only way to learn!

 

[1TallTx'n]

Tagged to follow.

 

[chrisfs]

Hi ELR,

2,701 yards huh, wow man... Can't even wrap my head around shooting at that distance ( yet ).... I defintely agree with getting good glass. I wouldn't want to spare expense on that as it'll be integral in shooting well. I just don't know enough on the topic to pick out the right magnification, zoom, rings and mounts etc - I've seen a lot of debate on scope rings and mounts and have no clue what makes one good or not, I'm used to picatinny rails on black rifles so this is all new to me. I definitely know the scope is an area not to cut corners in though. I've looked in my area and can't find many used 700/savage etc type rifles used in decent condition but I'll keep looking. anthonylapoint made a lot of sense about not getting caught up in " the fancy shit " as he put it. Reminds me of years back when I first got into 1911's and wanted to buy a custom right off the bat, took my time instead and circled back around a few years later and I now enjoy and understand why my higher end 1911's are what they are. I can totally appreciate it being across this application in marksmanship as well.

In my area the longest range will have a 500 yard lane. Shooting will vary between 100, 200 and 500 with the rare trip up to Central FL to an 800 yard range but that would definitely be a rare treat. I've read 1X per 100 yards but I'm not too clear on the mm portion of things. To my understanding it's the size of the scope at the far end in diameter ( I could be way off on that.. ) But I don't know what would make a larger or smaller scope have an advantage. Light maybe ? I'll leave that explanation to you guys that know about this. So in summary I'm going to keep shopping around and asking you guys questions lol...

Thanks again for the feedback guys

- Chris

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Hi ELR,

2,701 yards huh, wow man... Can't even wrap my head around shooting at that distance ( yet ).... I defintely agree with getting good glass. I wouldn't want to spare expense on that as it'll be integral in shooting well. I just don't know enough on the topic to pick out the right magnification, zoom, rings and mounts etc - I've seen a lot of debate on scope rings and mounts and have no clue what makes one good or not, I'm used to picatinny rails on black rifles so this is all new to me. I definitely know the scope is an area not to cut corners in though. I've looked in my area and can't find many used 700/savage etc type rifles used in decent condition but I'll keep looking. anthonylapoint made a lot of sense about not getting caught up in " the fancy shit " as he put it. Reminds me of years back when I first got into 1911's and wanted to buy a custom right off the bat, took my time instead and circled back around a few years later and I now enjoy and understand why my higher end 1911's are what they are. I can totally appreciate it being across this application in marksmanship as well.

In my area the longest range will have a 500 yard lane. Shooting will vary between 100, 200 and 500 with the rare trip up to Central FL to an 800 yard range but that would definitely be a rare treat. I've read 1X per 100 yards but I'm not too clear on the mm portion of things. To my understanding it's the size of the scope at the far end in diameter ( I could be way off on that.. ) But I don't know what would make a larger or smaller scope have an advantage. Light maybe ? I'll leave that explanation to you guys that know about this. So in summary I'm going to keep shopping around and asking you guys questions lol...

Thanks again for the feedback guys

- Chris

Light Collection---that is the reason for the larger objective lenses. 50-56mm lenses seem to be the going things in the higher end scopes. Glass clarity and the quality of the coatings is a huge factor in the price of the scope also. I personally own a NightForce NXS in 8-32x56. I cast about a bit between that and the 5-25x56. I don't think either one is necessarily the "right" choice over the other, as they both have pros and cons. The 5-25 has more internal adjustment. The 8-32 has more magnification which can help in certain lighting conditions, and hurt in others. Tube size--- 1" versus 30mm---has an impact on rigidity and light transmission. A lot of factors here, and it helps to talk with different people----you will get a million opinions, but you can sort through them and figure out who is just BS-ing and who has experience. Then, you need to distill the information you get and think it over, and decide for yourself.

 

[Pinecone]

The last number in a scope designation is the objective size in mm. So a 6-24x 44 has a 44 mmm objective.

Objective size does two things. 1) The larger the objective the more light is gathered and the better the scope can perform in low light. But glass clarity and anti reflection coatings on lenses are also very important with this. Cheap scopes put on a huge objective, but do not perform well in low light due to poor glass (absorbing light) and poor coating (light gets reflected off lens surfaces instead of making it to the eye). 2) The size of the exit pupil. This actually works hand in hand with 1. But the larger the objective for a given power, the larger the exit pupil. In low light, a larger exit pupil uses more of the open eye pupil for better performance. In higher light levels, the larger exit pupil makes it easier to look through the scope.

The other mm to worry about is the scope tube size. A larger scope body allows more travel for the reticle.

Most people seem to use mounts that are also a Picatinney rail for long range rifles.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Since you aren't shooting very far, its not as important as some of these guys shooting over 2,000 yards, but the larger objective scopes like thev50 mm can lose internal adjustments. I have seen a44mm objective scope have 75 MOA available then the same scope only had 50 MOA available with the 50 mm objective. Larger objectives offer a larger field of few for faster target acquisition but in the paper shooting world, who cares. I read an article a few weeks back that Leopold doesn't think its necessary to make anything over 44. Their new $3500 scope is a good example of their beliefs. It's only like 18x with a 44 mm objective.

You're going to want target knobs but look to see if it has a zero stop. Read reviews to see how well they track back to zero also.

Just do some research. I can tell you that a mark 4 can be had for around $1000 and is best scope for the money and reputation. It's a scope that if anyone bought it for any application, it would be great and would never disappoint. Same with nightforce but they are a few hundred more. Also, at 500 yards a 32 power scope maybe over kill. Vortex has also been putting out great scopes for the money and have never disappointed me thus far.

 

[roboto1138]

I started with a Remington 700, a Bell and Carlson stock, and a 10x Bushnell scope. All said and done I was up and running for about $1000.00 - $1200.00 including a Harris 6 to 9 brms bipod. If you are on a budget the 10x mil dot x mil mil 3200 bushnell is not a bad buy. I have shot that combination to 1000 yards. It is a decent setup to see what you like and don't like. It is much better than putting good money after bad. I picked that scope up for $200.00 new. If you have not already check out Lonewolfusmc's budget precision build. That video series got me into this shit and it is a great starting point imo. The money pit that follows is all part of the learning curve. If my fiance knew where John lived.......

 

[swampbuck]

I would recommend a 30mm tube Mark 4 in the 15 power range with a TMR recticle. A 20 moa rail will be fine and the Savage for out of the box accuracy with good aftermarket support. The laminated stock will be fine and is just a durable as synthetic but a little heavier. With all the epoxy in laminated stocks you would have to soak one a month or 2 to make it warp and swell. I would not go higher then a 50 mm objective. Trigger would probably be the only custom upgrade you need until you get ready to re barrel. Rilke is great to but don't think they come with heavy target barrels.