Newbie needs AI purchasing advice

[Viper1973]

Guys,

Longtime lurker and I must say you guys are all awesome. I’ve learned a lot just following various threads. Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but here goes....

** DISCLAIMER ** I apologize in advance for all the questions but I CAN’T afford to screw this decision up so any input is most appreciated.

Due to an very unexpected bonus at work I now have the resources to purchase my first high-end official precision rifle. Up until this time I’ve been puttering around with an old Remington 700P. My dad was an Army sniper during the Korean War and it’s become somewhat of a way for me to connect to his world and I’ve learned a lot along the way.

For this purchase - since I seriously doubt I’ll ever be able to do this again - I’ve firmly decided on an AI AXMC (pale brown) in .300WM (26” barrel). My thoughts were that .338 ammo is WAY too expensive to play with but by choosing the .300 it’d still leave that door open later on if I get into reloading, hit the lottery or something. And with the flexibility of the AXMC platform it’s a long-term solution that can be upgraded and changed up as needed without starting over rather than having umpteen guns.

I also plan on getting the .308 conversion parts along with a 26” barrel since that caliber is what I shoot now.
This brings me to my first question... Do the extra conversion parts, bolts, barrels, etc. have to be ordered with and fitted to the rifle at the time of purchase or can they jut be added at any time drop-in style? (For example, I don’t want to have to ship my rifle for refitting). Also, do you have to buy an additional muzzle break separately or do they come with the barrels?

I’m planning on an Atlas BT46LW17 bipod.

Question #2... Will this just simply attach to one of the 1913 modular rail sections or is a different bipod style or mount recommended? I’ve seen references to a spigot adapter and wasn’t sure what was the best route to go here.

For optics I’m thinking about a Schmidt Bender PMII 5-25x56 MTC with a Spuhr mount but this isn’t decided. I’ve looked at Nightforce and know they are very popular but I just don’t care for capped windage turret. Is the SB my best choice or is there something else I should be considering? I also have no clue as to which Spur mount I’d need for this scope... I assume a 0MOA since the rail is already pre-canted 30MOA. But I have no idea on the height? I’d probably be using Tenebraex caps.

I’m considering the butt spike upgrade. For those of you that have one do you find it useful or regret the purchase? I currently use a rear sandbag.

Now my biggest dilemma is where to get my new toy from... Mile High Shooting or EuroOptic. I’ve dealt with both companies on a limited basis with fantastic service. However, my concern is who is most likely to have all of the above in stock and actually ready to ship?

Where is likely my best deal on a purchase of this size? Also, in the event something arrives damaged (scratched, dinged barrel, etc) which dealer will give me the least amount of grief to get it sorted out?

 

[b6graham]

I got my AI from eurooptic years ago.

I wouldnt hesitate to buy from either one or a mix depending who has what in stock. Call them for prices and call other vendors too regarding scopes. CS, Cameraland, Sport Optics all have good pricing and are hide vendors too

 

[Andy T]

Like the previous poster your best bet could be calling Eurooptic or Mile High to cover all your bases. Here are some answers I know:
The conversions / different barrels can be purchase at any time. No need to mail the rifle.
The bipod would attach to a piccatiny rail piece on the forearm. Spigot is not applicable to AXMC.

 

[shoobe01]

If you didn't know, the manual is online. Some details, or at least enough detail to ask more questions maybe, will be in there:
http://www.accuracyinternational.us...ads/2015/01/AI-15591-01A-USER-MANUAL-AXMC.pdf

 

[Lunchbox27]

Call Mike @ Mile High shooting

I need to come into an unexpected bonus...

 

[Viper1973]

I need to come into an unexpected bonus...

Lol... I’ve worked from October through now with not even a single day off (this includes Christmas) while a co-worker underwent major surgery, chemo and a long recovery. Most weeks were 60+ hr. Everything my department needed to do got done with absolutely zero delays.

My coworker came back Friday and senior management felt that - even though I’m salary - that I should get something for taking on the extra work without being asked so that our other departments and customers were taken care of.

I had no idea this was going to happen and i was just given the news this morning. Like I said, it’s a once in a lifetime.

 

[W54/XM-388]

A couple things for you:

You do not need to order the bolts, barrels or conversion magazine adapter at the same time as the rifle. Accuracy International makes everything to exact standards so all bolts for the series will fit just perfectly and so will the magazine adapters. This also goes the same for correctly made barrels, either ones you by that are distributed by Accuracy International or correctly made ones by 3rd parties. All are designed to be made to exact specifications so it's a put it in and go type affair. You could have 3 rifles on the line and swap bolts and barrels between them at will and shoot just fine.

Mile High shooting is well regarded and a great distributor.
If you happen to have actual funds in your bank account (rather than credit card), Eurooptic can often do a pretty good deal on the rifles for you, so I would get a quote from Mile High and also get a quote from Eurooptic and ask them to put in what discount they can do for a bank draft payment.

On your .300wm barrel, see if you can get a 1:9 twist or if not the 1:10 will probably work, a lot depends on what bullets you want to shoot, but the heavy monolithic modern stuff likes faster twist rates.

The S&B 5-25x56 is an excellent scope and it's hard to go wrong with, there are many other scope brands/models also available, a lot depends on what reticle you specifically want (I'm a huge fan of the old classic P4F), The MTC feature is nice, I personally however prefer not to have it as while quicker for large amounts of rotation, if you want to go to something like 11 or 21 or 31 etc, normally you wind up over turning and then going back. You can find some amazing deals on the S&B 5-25x56 here on the hide, depending on reticle and condition anywhere from $2k to $2500. For the money it is one of the best values to be had in that price range class.

A few things to think about for calibers:
The .338LM is expensive to buy, but once you start reloading it's not bad. You get a lot of range, as well as probably the best barrel life of all the magnum cartridges. In addition, the same bolt face is used for the .300 Norma magnum. The barrel life cost per round fired is about half of what a .300wm or .300 Norma Magnum is on average.

The .300 Norma Magnum uses the same bolt face as the .338LM and has similar ballistics at a lower cost.

If you have the .300wm setup, there is an new cartridge coming out called the .300 PRC, that is kind of an inbetween step, more energy than the .300wm but not quite as high energy as the .300 Norma magnum. It uses the same bolt face as the .300wm, it will get you out to 2000 yards honestly.

The .308 bolt and magazine adapter will work for all your .308 class rounds, so .308, 6.5CM 6CM, .243, 6.5x47 etc, so once you have that bolt shroud and the mag adapter you are all set to just get barrels for whatever you want to shoot.


Pale brown is very nice, but the Sage Green and Elite Sand are also fine looking rigs.

 

[Viper1973]

The MTC feature is nice, I personally however prefer not to have it as while quicker for large amounts of rotation, if you want to go to something like 11 or 21 or 31 etc, normally you wind up over turning and then going back.

So would the SB PMII 5-25x56 L/P DT P4F FFP 34mm .1MRAD CCW be ultimately a better choice then? Should I go that route instead?

For reference my Rem700P has a first gen Vortex Razor HD which is what I’m used to.

 

[W54/XM-388]

That option is a good option and I have several of those that I use & am very happy with.
But it's all about what specific features you like best.

The MTC is a personal preference thing, some love it.
If you think you will be spinning large amounts of elevation quickly or in the dark, then it's excellent.
If you are shooting at the range mostly, I'd say it's less useful.
The main thing is that the amount of force required to get over each "tactile click" detents tends to make you skip at least 1 of the following clicks, but some like that also, so your mileage may vary.

The P4F is a great reticle if you like shooting at high magnification (such as the 20x and above range), and you want a nice clean view at lower magnifications & you generally dial all your elevations and then hold for wind.

However some of the more complex reticles with large amounts of reference spots are also hugely popular these days, and can be useful if you mostly use the lower magnification settings and want to be able to just hold and shoot without having to dial.

Look here for a quick sheet of the S&B available reticles in the 1st focal plane:
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/5-25x56-pm-iilp.html

 

[mercracing]

I don't have any sage advice that hasn't been said already except welcome to the cult er club!

 

[Kadams1563]

Why such a large caliber? I would go with a 6.5 variant and get almost the same range if all your doing is shooting steel.

I see a lot of people jump into .300’s and then wonder why they can’t shoot but 100 rounds every few months. Go with a 6.5 and shoot 100 rounds a week.

Especially since your used .308 the 6.5 will be something new and it will get you better ballistics.

 

[mercracing]

I could be wrong but I think to order an AXMC newit must be ordered either 300 or 338 size then SA parts added.

 

[Kadams1563]

I didn’t know that. Thanks.

That’s what I get for not knowing shit about 8k rifles. That’s about $5k above my budget for a build lol.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Welcome to the club! I have an AXMC pale brown in 300WM. I decided 300WM for the same reason as you, much cheaper than 338 and since I don’t reload it was a no brainer. The short action conversion kit can be purchased separately at any time.

One note I will add, with a NF you do not have to use the cap. The ATACR line of NF scopes come with a “beauty ring” that goes on the windage to protect the threads of you prefer an exposed windage. I personally always hold wind anyway so it’s not a big deal. The S&B 5-25 is a great scope. I personally prefer tree style reticles so I had an h59. If I were you I’d consider the NF ATACR 7-35. But there are plenty of great scopes out there besides these.
I will say I wish I had been able to get the dark earth rifle, and the sage green has grown on me as well.
Shot my AX in a match today and it performed boringly excellent. Now if only I could do the same lol

 

[hollowoutadime]

Really, really try to budget in a suppressor. Makes shooting more enjoyable.

 

[bab029]

You seem set on an axmc for magnum capability and that’s hard to argue with. I will echo the recommendation for a 6.5 unless you’ve identified a need/want for a magnum (Hunting, ELR, etc.) as well as trying to go ahead and budget a suppressor. They make it much easier to communicate with a spotter and vice versa.

Hard to make a bad decision on a scope, just make sure you like the reticle. I like having the hash marks labeled (e.g. vortex ebr-1c)

 

[Covertnoob5]

I will also say that a 6.5 should probably be your first short action barrel, but if this is truly a once in a lifetime purchase I would still recommend the long action version because if you go short action and one day want to move into hunting, elr, or long range comps, you’ll wish you had. With the long action you can always go up in calibers, with the short action you can not go up.

 

[Viper1973]

I will also say that a 6.5 should probably be your first short action barrel, but if this is truly a once in a lifetime purchase I would still recommend the long action version because if you go short action and one day want to move into hunting, elr, or long range comps, you’ll wish you had. With the long action you can always go up in calibers, with the short action you can not go up.

6.5CM will probably be the next caliber I’ll experiment with when I can afford to add another barrel. That’s mainly why I went with the 300WM as the base so I can really add anything later and keep the same rifle.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you happen to get into reloading, try the warner flatline projectiles in your .308 barrel

 

[Viper1973]

Everyone,

Thanks so much for the guidance....

I'm now trying to finalize my optic choice and after further investigation am torn....

My original thoughts were for an SB PM II 5-25x56 with their P4L Fein reticle. HOWEVER, after learning that I'm not stuck with capped windage of the Nightforce ATACR like I thought, I've looked more at their offerings.

I like their Mil-C reticle... It's like the P4L Fein, only better refined. But, I'm wondering if an H59 would be a better choice. I like the more widespread illumination of the Mil-C but really can't find any photos of the H59 illuminated. I also have concerns that the aim point of the H59 would be hard to see.

Those of you that use AI with Nightforce, what reticle did you choose? (Note: I prefer MILs over MOA since all of my other scopes are MIL). The only other high-end scope I've actually dealt with is my Vortex Razor HD and I really liked that reticle but for this purchase I wanted to put the best optic that I could afford on it since it's basically going to be my 'mid life crisis gun'.... Some folks do sportscars, I do firearms.... go figure.

Thoughts?

Also, since the AXMC already has 30MOA of cant built into the platform, will I need to add any additional cant in the scope mount? (I'm thinking in the event I go to a class or something where one can actually shoot 1 mile +) I basically don't want to have to make changes after-the-fact.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Also, since the AXMC already has 30MOA of cant built into the platform, will I need to add any additional cant in the scope mount? (I'm thinking in the event I go to a class or something where one can actually shoot 1 mile +) I basically don't want to have to make changes after-the-fact.

You need to decide on the scope first and then based on the scope determine the MOA on the mount that you need.
Some scopes such as the S&B 5-25x56 offer a very large adjustment range so you wouldn't need additional elevation most likely.

Once you know the scope model, then you can pull up a ballistic calculator, enter in where your zero is going to be set at and your maximum range for shots & see how many mils of elevation you need, then see what is available with the scope and determine the mount you need.

 

[Covertnoob5]

If you want to wring out the most elevation get a spuhr with 10 moa if you’re considering a NF ATACR.

 

[davidwiz]

The Kahles K624i, K525i and K318i are good choices too (I have the K624i SKMR3 which I use for PRS on my AI AT).

 

[Viper1973]

Well, it is DONE...... Whoooo hoooo!

I wanted to thank everyone for their insight, guidance and recommendations. I know that I overthink things and can make folks crazy with my questions... or so I've been told

This turned into quite an adventure in getting it ordered. I actually ended up having to use both Mile High and Euro Optic with parts coming from all over the place. Kudos to both Dawn and Mile High and Ari at EuroOptic for being patient and getting me taken care of.

The final configuration ended up being:

AXMC in .300 Win Mag, 26" Barrel, Pale Brown
Atlas BT46 Bipod with ADM Mount
Nightforce ATACR 5-25x50 with illuminated TRemoR3 reticle
Spuhr 4002 unimount
AI/Win Tactical .308 Win 24" Barrel, 5/8-24 threaded in Pale Brown
APA Little Bastard Gen II Muzzle Break
AI Short Action Magazine Adapter
AI .308 long action bolt body
Qty 3 - .308 magazines
Qty 2 - .300 magazines
AI .308 long-action bore guide
AI .300 bore guide
Borka 49-in-lbs torque tool with ratchet
Borka AXMC barrel wrench
Tab Gear barrel/bolt storage sleeve.

We ran into major problems trying to get the parts for the short-action conversion. I was originally wanting to do that in 26" with the AI muzzle break. However, that particular barrel combination exists nowhere on this side of the pond. Both Dawn and Ari frankly told me I may wait a year or longer.

After doing some additional research and consulting with both Dawn and Ari, Dawn found ONE 24" threaded 5/8-24 barrel in pale brown so that's what we went with. Since AI doesn't make a muzzle break in that configuration I went with her recommendation and did the APA.

As it stands now... Most items will arrive on either Friday or Monday with the rifle itself arriving probably Tuesday due to the FFL paperwork involved. The bore guides should arrive late next week or the following. They're still inbound from AI.

So... being a newbie, how'd I do? Right now my only concern is if I ordered the right Spuhr mount and how long before my bank calls and asks me if I've lost my mind

 

[W54/XM-388]

Congratulations on the new setup, now get out there and have a lot of fun with it.

 

[mercracing]

Sounds like you did great! Can’t wait to see pictures and a range report!

 

[Evolution 9]

Absolutely outstanding setup.

 

[Kadams1563]

Should look at that crazy Schmidt sale but damn man I’m jealous.

 

[jswhitesell619]

That's a heck of a setup and will be an awesome shooter I'm sure!

 

[CRT2]

I'm using the SPUHR SP4002 with a Vortex Razor Gen 2 4.5 - 27. Think you ordered the right one.

 

[hollowoutadime]

I would have jumped on the Schmidt deal (EuroOptic), but everything you have is first rate. Congrats/Enjoy

 

[Viper1973]

I would have jumped on the Schmidt deal (EuroOptic), but everything you have is first rate. Congrats/Enjoy

Was really wanting Schmidt Bender but after looking at their Reticles none of them was really to my liking all that well. I didn’t want to give up my Christmas tree reticle like I have on my Vortex. The H59 was the closest and I Was really considering it.

But after looking at the TreMoR3 and learning it’s the new military contract reticle I decided to go with the Nightforce. Plus the lifetime warranty sealed the deal.

By all accounts NF and SB are pretty much neck and neck and are both military suppliers which is why I went the way I did.

 

[Keyst0ne]

Nice setup! You'll have a lot to mess with there! Pretty sure you don't need that barrel wrench though -- unless the AXMC is different than my short action AX all you need is a 4mm Allen wrench to switch barrels.

 

[Luvman]

Nice setup! You'll have a lot to mess with there! Pretty sure you don't need that barrel wrench though -- unless the AXMC is different than my short action AX all you need is a 4mm Allen wrench to switch barrels.

The torque spec on the quick lock bolt that locks the barrel in an AI is 49 in lbs. I need to check out that Borka

 

[Andy T]

The torque spec on the quick lock bolt that locks the barrel in an AI is 49 in lbs. I need to check out that Borka

To be precise it's actually 5 - 5.5 NM according to the manual. 45 in lbs (same torque used for Sphur mount falls into this range). So I have 1 torque wrench for two tasks