I've just started with long distance shooting, primarily F/TR 600 and 1000 yd. My question is, if I have my scope set on, say 30X, and I'm shooting at 1000 yds, how do I calculate how may minutes of angle the distance between each mil dot represent? Or am I trying to compare apples to oranges?
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Advanced Marksmanship Newbie question about Mil-dots
- Thread starter ex_af
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Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
Yes, but you can do it, map the reticle at 100 yards and measure the distance. That will tell you what they subtend. It requires a bit of work on your part, but if you want to use "mil dots" on 30x shooting F Class, then you have to put in the time.
Yes, but you can do it, map the reticle at 100 yards and measure the distance. That will tell you what they subtend. It requires a bit of work on your part, but if you want to use "mil dots" on 30x shooting F Class, then you have to put in the time.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
Well, the issue is, I don't have enough elevation adjustment on my scope to take it to 1000 yds, even though I have a 20 MOA base on it. I can squeeze maybe 800 out of it, but that be pushing it... I have it set dead nuts for 600 yds, and I was trying to think of a way to maybe use the Mil-dots to compensate for lack of adjustment on the scope itself. Right now, I simply can't afford to drop a thousand bucks on a scope, I got the best I could afford at the time.
Well, the issue is, I don't have enough elevation adjustment on my scope to take it to 1000 yds, even though I have a 20 MOA base on it. I can squeeze maybe 800 out of it, but that be pushing it... I have it set dead nuts for 600 yds, and I was trying to think of a way to maybe use the Mil-dots to compensate for lack of adjustment on the scope itself. Right now, I simply can't afford to drop a thousand bucks on a scope, I got the best I could afford at the time.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
You don't need a scope set on 30X to shoot 1000 yards - and, if you have a second focal-plane scope, you'll be able to hold more elevation with the reticle if the scope is dialed to a lower power.
Follow the instructions in this article to find the power where the reticle is accurate:
Optically Checking Rifle Scopes
That article will also tell you how to calibrate the reticle for use when it is at half the power at which the reticle is accurate.
That will probably serve you for holdoffs to 1000 yards.
If not, we can calculate a power you can use, with more information about your load, and what it takes to get to 1000 yards.
You don't need a scope set on 30X to shoot 1000 yards - and, if you have a second focal-plane scope, you'll be able to hold more elevation with the reticle if the scope is dialed to a lower power.
Follow the instructions in this article to find the power where the reticle is accurate:
Optically Checking Rifle Scopes
That article will also tell you how to calibrate the reticle for use when it is at half the power at which the reticle is accurate.
That will probably serve you for holdoffs to 1000 yards.
If not, we can calculate a power you can use, with more information about your load, and what it takes to get to 1000 yards.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
This helps, especially the second focal plane info since this seems to apply to my scope. Many thanks for the info. I'll give this a try. I've already found that reducing the magnification is a plus just in general (my scope has a max of 42X) And for what it's worth, I've been shooting Hornady 168 gr Match rounds at 600 yds and they seem to me to be an excellent round for a factory load. And right now, hand loading is not an option for me.
This helps, especially the second focal plane info since this seems to apply to my scope. Many thanks for the info. I'll give this a try. I've already found that reducing the magnification is a plus just in general (my scope has a max of 42X) And for what it's worth, I've been shooting Hornady 168 gr Match rounds at 600 yds and they seem to me to be an excellent round for a factory load. And right now, hand loading is not an option for me.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
HSM Ammo loads up the new 155s. They should shoot flatter to 1000 because you will drive them faster at higher BC then your current ammo.
HSM Ammo loads up the new 155s. They should shoot flatter to 1000 because you will drive them faster at higher BC then your current ammo.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, the issue is, I don't have enough elevation adjustment on my scope to take it to 1000 yds, even though I have a 20 MOA base on it. I can squeeze maybe 800 out of it, but that be pushing it... I have it set dead nuts for 600 yds, and I was trying to think of a way to maybe use the Mil-dots to compensate for lack of adjustment on the scope itself. Right now, I simply can't afford to drop a thousand bucks on a scope, I got the best I could afford at the time.</div></div>
Have you thought about keeping this stuff simple, perhaps, replacing the 20 moa base with a 30 moa base. Here's why, the eye naturally wants to center things-including the reticle's center. Having to use a hold over in F-class is an unnecessary distraction which brings about a multitude of potential problems you'll need to add to your mental management list when it will be difficult enough to keep up with your wind strategy. Plus, it really becomes interesting when you've got your proper holdover and need to add a wind favor to it. Unless you just want a handicap, or a learning experience not associated with F-class needs, get the 30 moa base. It will allow you to concentrate on the firing task. Doing that well with some knowledge about wind added in and you might have a more rewarding experience with it all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, the issue is, I don't have enough elevation adjustment on my scope to take it to 1000 yds, even though I have a 20 MOA base on it. I can squeeze maybe 800 out of it, but that be pushing it... I have it set dead nuts for 600 yds, and I was trying to think of a way to maybe use the Mil-dots to compensate for lack of adjustment on the scope itself. Right now, I simply can't afford to drop a thousand bucks on a scope, I got the best I could afford at the time.</div></div>
Have you thought about keeping this stuff simple, perhaps, replacing the 20 moa base with a 30 moa base. Here's why, the eye naturally wants to center things-including the reticle's center. Having to use a hold over in F-class is an unnecessary distraction which brings about a multitude of potential problems you'll need to add to your mental management list when it will be difficult enough to keep up with your wind strategy. Plus, it really becomes interesting when you've got your proper holdover and need to add a wind favor to it. Unless you just want a handicap, or a learning experience not associated with F-class needs, get the 30 moa base. It will allow you to concentrate on the firing task. Doing that well with some knowledge about wind added in and you might have a more rewarding experience with it all.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
A 30 MOA base would in fact cure my problem, but I was not aware of the availability such a piece. I was hoping the 20 MOA EGW base I got would have solved my problem. But the additional 10 minutes combined with the elevation adjustment I have left in my scope would give me more than enough to go 1000 yds. Who makes a such an item?
A 30 MOA base would in fact cure my problem, but I was not aware of the availability such a piece. I was hoping the 20 MOA EGW base I got would have solved my problem. But the additional 10 minutes combined with the elevation adjustment I have left in my scope would give me more than enough to go 1000 yds. Who makes a such an item?
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
What action do you have? Bases with 30 MOA are readily available for Remington 700s, but not so much with others.
What action do you have? Bases with 30 MOA are readily available for Remington 700s, but not so much with others.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
I have new Savage Model 12 with the accutrigger. I did a Google search and like you said, Remington 700's seem to be the most readily available. Seems 20 MOA is the limit for a Savage.
I have new Savage Model 12 with the accutrigger. I did a Google search and like you said, Remington 700's seem to be the most readily available. Seems 20 MOA is the limit for a Savage.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have new Savage Model 12 with the accutrigger. I did a Google search and like you said, Remington 700's seem to be the most readily available. Seems 20 MOA is the limit for a Savage. </div></div>
Get some shim stock. Put it, of course, between base and bridge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have new Savage Model 12 with the accutrigger. I did a Google search and like you said, Remington 700's seem to be the most readily available. Seems 20 MOA is the limit for a Savage. </div></div>
Get some shim stock. Put it, of course, between base and bridge.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
Another way to get a little more elevation is to use the Burris Signature rings with the inserts. Add the +10 to the rear and put the -10 in the front and that will afford you a little more elevation from your scope. Just a thought and it's not horribly expensive...
Another way to get a little more elevation is to use the Burris Signature rings with the inserts. Add the +10 to the rear and put the -10 in the front and that will afford you a little more elevation from your scope. Just a thought and it's not horribly expensive...
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
Google variable gantry mount. It's a cool mount thats adjustable, it will let your run scopes that don't have much adjustment out to 1k no problem. It can also be set-up with a 100y zero and (4) more places to set for hold overs MOA'S or distances your chose. They are totally repetable.
Google variable gantry mount. It's a cool mount thats adjustable, it will let your run scopes that don't have much adjustment out to 1k no problem. It can also be set-up with a 100y zero and (4) more places to set for hold overs MOA'S or distances your chose. They are totally repetable.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
I was finally able to find a place called Near Manufacturing that makes some high dollar but high quality mounts all the way to 75 MOA and they make a 35 MOA that fits my rifle, but for the cost of it, plus a few more bucks, i could just sell my present scope, get a night force that has enough adjustment built in and this whole conversation would be moot.
Yes, and I told my wife when I quit racing and took up shooting as a hobby, "No dear, it won't be like racing. It won't be expensive." HA HA HA HA HA
I was finally able to find a place called Near Manufacturing that makes some high dollar but high quality mounts all the way to 75 MOA and they make a 35 MOA that fits my rifle, but for the cost of it, plus a few more bucks, i could just sell my present scope, get a night force that has enough adjustment built in and this whole conversation would be moot.
Yes, and I told my wife when I quit racing and took up shooting as a hobby, "No dear, it won't be like racing. It won't be expensive." HA HA HA HA HA
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshooter70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another way to get a little more elevation is to use the Burris Signature rings with the inserts. Add the +10 to the rear and put the -10 in the front and that will afford you a little more elevation from your scope. Just a thought and it's not horribly expensive... </div></div>
What he said.
I used these on my Savage model 10 .308 They will give you more rear elevation and according to Burris they cause the same effect as having the rings lapped because the plasic pieces grip the entire scope tube better. As opposed to steel rings holding an aluminum tube. A.K.A. metal-on-metal. You will need Burris rings to go along with the inserts though. The rings come with 0 MOA, and the seperate package of inserts comes with 5, 10, and 20 MOA + and -. The package of inserts is something like 6 or 7 dollars. I ordered mine through Midway USA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshooter70</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another way to get a little more elevation is to use the Burris Signature rings with the inserts. Add the +10 to the rear and put the -10 in the front and that will afford you a little more elevation from your scope. Just a thought and it's not horribly expensive... </div></div>
What he said.
I used these on my Savage model 10 .308 They will give you more rear elevation and according to Burris they cause the same effect as having the rings lapped because the plasic pieces grip the entire scope tube better. As opposed to steel rings holding an aluminum tube. A.K.A. metal-on-metal. You will need Burris rings to go along with the inserts though. The rings come with 0 MOA, and the seperate package of inserts comes with 5, 10, and 20 MOA + and -. The package of inserts is something like 6 or 7 dollars. I ordered mine through Midway USA.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
That would work, I just hate that I just put a set of Leupold rings on it that weren't exactly inexpensive. It's only money I guess...
That would work, I just hate that I just put a set of Leupold rings on it that weren't exactly inexpensive. It's only money I guess...
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, and I told my wife when I quit racing and took up shooting as a hobby, "No dear, it won't be like racing. It won't be expensive." HA HA HA HA HA </div></div>
Gorrilla you really shouldnt lie to her like that hehehe .
It like many other things is only as expensive as you want it to be , Good side of the NF scope direction is you know you can get the bulk of that investment back should you decide to change over to fly fishing or something
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, and I told my wife when I quit racing and took up shooting as a hobby, "No dear, it won't be like racing. It won't be expensive." HA HA HA HA HA </div></div>
Gorrilla you really shouldnt lie to her like that hehehe .
It like many other things is only as expensive as you want it to be , Good side of the NF scope direction is you know you can get the bulk of that investment back should you decide to change over to fly fishing or something
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes, and I told my wife when I quit racing and took up shooting as a hobby, "No dear, it won't be like racing. It won't be expensive." HA HA HA HA HA</div></div>
Classic
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WCS Gorilla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes, and I told my wife when I quit racing and took up shooting as a hobby, "No dear, it won't be like racing. It won't be expensive." HA HA HA HA HA</div></div>
Classic
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
Don't know what type of racing you did or what class. But it probably isn't AS expensive.Ammo shouldn't be as much as fuel, parts, entry fees, or hauling the thing around. You can keep spending the money. Or buy your gun scope and the few other things you think you need, and then ammo would be the only thing you have to keep buying. And maybe a place to shoot. I dont know that though. I figured it wouldn't be as bad. Good luck. Speed is addicting but so is this so be ready.
Don't know what type of racing you did or what class. But it probably isn't AS expensive.Ammo shouldn't be as much as fuel, parts, entry fees, or hauling the thing around. You can keep spending the money. Or buy your gun scope and the few other things you think you need, and then ammo would be the only thing you have to keep buying. And maybe a place to shoot. I dont know that though. I figured it wouldn't be as bad. Good luck. Speed is addicting but so is this so be ready.
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
i was wondering if you should change scopes and get less power i use two different scopes.I use a 16x super sniper on my 308 and a vortex 6.5x20x44 on 300 win and have never had a problem getting enough min out to 1000 yds i do use egw 20 moa base on the 300 win but have 0 moa on 308
i was wondering if you should change scopes and get less power i use two different scopes.I use a 16x super sniper on my 308 and a vortex 6.5x20x44 on 300 win and have never had a problem getting enough min out to 1000 yds i do use egw 20 moa base on the 300 win but have 0 moa on 308
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
I have a Barska 14-40x 50mm scope on it. Funny you should mention this. I went to my first ever match over Memorial Day weekend, a mid-range match. 1 300 yd relay, 1 500 yd relay and 2 600 yd relays and I discovered a 40x scope is useless. By the time I had it where it was usable, I had it cut back to about 20x in order to get a decent view without any mirage. But there isn't enough elevation adjustment even with the 20moa base to go to 1000 yds. I can get to about 800 and that's it. That's shooting Hornady 168gr A-Max rounds.
What would be a good scope to use that won't break the bank?
I have a Barska 14-40x 50mm scope on it. Funny you should mention this. I went to my first ever match over Memorial Day weekend, a mid-range match. 1 300 yd relay, 1 500 yd relay and 2 600 yd relays and I discovered a 40x scope is useless. By the time I had it where it was usable, I had it cut back to about 20x in order to get a decent view without any mirage. But there isn't enough elevation adjustment even with the 20moa base to go to 1000 yds. I can get to about 800 and that's it. That's shooting Hornady 168gr A-Max rounds.
What would be a good scope to use that won't break the bank?
Re: Newbie question about Mil-dots
I too don't have the money yet to buy the higher end scopes. I make a middle class wage at the fire department and therefore have middle class scopes on my rifles.
I've got this one on my Savage 10 FLCP .308 in Burris Zee rings. The glass is outstanding, but I can't comment on how repeatable the turrets are as of yet.
1/4 MOA turret
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=131597
And I have this one on my Savage model 12 in .22-250 The glass seems to be just as good, and I really put the turrets through a tough test last week, prarie dog shooting in the Panhandle. I had no problems at all. It is even a less expensive scope than the Burris.
1/4 MOA turret
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=740823
And this is the latest version but in 1/10 mil adjustment.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=458997
I have a Barksa 20-60x 60mm spotting scope that is practically useless in the mirage, which is almost always present where I shoot. I believe Barsksa is on the very low end of optics. I'm not knocking your equipment. I thought I could get away with going the cheap route, but I learned the hard way. Now I've got a spotting scope I need to sell and get on the look out for a decent used one of higher quality.
I too don't have the money yet to buy the higher end scopes. I make a middle class wage at the fire department and therefore have middle class scopes on my rifles.
I've got this one on my Savage 10 FLCP .308 in Burris Zee rings. The glass is outstanding, but I can't comment on how repeatable the turrets are as of yet.
1/4 MOA turret
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=131597
And I have this one on my Savage model 12 in .22-250 The glass seems to be just as good, and I really put the turrets through a tough test last week, prarie dog shooting in the Panhandle. I had no problems at all. It is even a less expensive scope than the Burris.
1/4 MOA turret
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=740823
And this is the latest version but in 1/10 mil adjustment.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=458997
I have a Barksa 20-60x 60mm spotting scope that is practically useless in the mirage, which is almost always present where I shoot. I believe Barsksa is on the very low end of optics. I'm not knocking your equipment. I thought I could get away with going the cheap route, but I learned the hard way. Now I've got a spotting scope I need to sell and get on the look out for a decent used one of higher quality.
