Newbie Questions on Case Prep - How Much is Too Much??

[daved]

After reading a great deal on the subject of case prep, I've wondered if someone with an anal personality such as myself taking up precision hand loading is akin to someone with an addictive personality taking up cocaine snorting as a hobby - you find it difficult to find an end point. It seems like you could spend all your time prepping cases for minor increases in results. So I've decided to limit myself to the following:

1) Spend extra bucks to buy "quality" cases, i.e. Lapua
2) Prep new cases prior to fire-forming - record representative neck/base diameter, case length and base to datum line length; FL size (bump shoulder .001-.002", neck diam loaded diam minus .002"), trim to uniform case length (Wilson tool), uniform 30 degree internal chamfer (Wilson tool), de-burr externally manually; ignore primer pockets, flash hole, case weight, neck thickness and trust that the quality cases will be uniform in these areas.
3) Prime with bench tool not press
4) Weigh each powder charge
5) Use concentric seating die (Forster micrometer) with custom stem; standard COAL 2.800" with 308 SMK 175
6) Fire-form with full charges
7) Deprime;record representative neck/base diameter, case length and case to datum line length
Tumble clean with SS pins
9) Repeat (2) each cycle after adjusting bump/neck diameter post fire-forming as necessary and trim length to .002" less than measured chamber length.
10) Anneal at some frequency to be determined, probably each cycle
11) Consider segregating empty/loaded cases by weight and shoot loaded rounds in sequence (see what I mean - the original list was 10 items!)

It would seem that this procedure would yield 99.8% of potential accuracy while striking a reasonable balance between obsession and enjoyment. I'd appreciate any comments/critique/suggestions as to how to get any more out of case prep without significantly increasing the time or money spent.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[aloreman]

Anything you think matters matters. Do as much as you want and enjoy doing. if it makes a difference to you it makes a difference

 

[Graham]

Newbie Questions on Case Prep - How Much is Too Much??

Anything you think matters matters. Do as much as you want and enjoy doing. if it makes a difference to you it makes a difference

Practical precision rifle shooting is about knowing the difference between what matters and what doesn't, and applying this knowledge to your shooting.

The standard as to what case prep makes a difference to accuracy and/or reliability is not subjective. Just because you think it matters does not mean that it does. Making things up doesn't cut it, except on the Internet.

Buy quality brass. Start by reading Zak's articles on the 6.5mm and branch out from there.

 

[aloreman]

If you know that all steps were taken to insure your ammo is as good as you can make it then that builds confidence. I do things to my brass that i have proven do nothing on paper however when im standing on the line i have zero doubt that there is anything wrong with my ammo or equiptment. And that matters.

 

[aloreman]

And i can prove that off the internet

 

[daved]

Anything you think matters matters. Do as much as you want and enjoy doing. if it makes a difference to you it makes a difference

I agree that individual performance improvement comes with confidence in the equipment - but I'm a realist. Thinking a process has made your loads more accurate doesn't make them so. I'm trying to figure out which processes actually have value and and get a relative assessment of how much. I'll enjoy it if the load has a demonstrable improvement - not so much if it doesn't add anything except confidence which may be misplaced.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Graham]

For example: I have never found a measurable benefit in cleaning primer pockets.

No matter how much time I waste doing that, when I could I be shooting or dry firing instead, the confidence it doesn't bring me doesn't hurt my scores either.

 

[bruddah]

Good thread. I have read it is important to clean the primer pockets. Has anyone done a scientific test to see what if any difference there is?

 

[Mad_Charlie]

Not "scientific" at all, but I have noticed that sometimes I get a "high" primer if I don't make sure the pockets are clean.

Some folks feel that primer pocket prep is a total waste of time, I shoot gas guns as well as bolt so I uniform all of the pockets, but more from the standpoint of safety than accuracy.

If I do get a little more accuracy it won't hurt my feelings any, but I can't prove it.

 

[steve123]

On step #9... after the cases have been fired measure a sampling of them for length. Pick the trim length at .002" below average, some will be short for a firing or two but will end up that length soon enough. I say to do it this way because many times the forward edge of the chamber is either long to begin with or the brass is short. In the end what matters most is that the necks are within a few thou of the same length.

OP, I think you have a better handle on your situation than most new to reloading do. I don't know how many times I've seen newbs using mixed headstamp range brass to reload with then throw charges from a powder measure with medium grain extruded powder and wonder why their rifle shoots 2" groups.

Hey guys, if you deprime the cases then clean the SS tumbler method or with a ultra sonic you'll never have to scrape out a primer pocket again.

 

[Graham]

Newbie Questions on Case Prep - How Much is Too Much??

Guys, it's not Benchrest:

Buy quality brass and quality bullets.
Measure the shoulder bump. Control it.
Measure neck tension. Control it.
Measure BTO. Control it.

Trim when the cases get long enough to interfere. Throw them out when the primer pockets get too loose to hold a primer or when you think that you have no choice but to waste your time annealing otherwise spent brass.

If you want to get fancy and segregate by concentricity for long range rounds, then fine. Personally, I can't hold the difference between brass weight lots and concentric runout differences, but you guys probably shoot better than I do.

 

[daved]

Good thread. I have read it is important to clean the primer pockets. Has anyone done a scientific test to see what if any difference there is?[/QUOTE

I think the idea of cleaning them is to have a uniform seating depth - if they're clean, all will be seated uniformly at the base of the pocket. Whether a uniform seating depth actually makes more consistent ammo - who knows? It makes sense that it would improve accuracy but it always comes down to how much in relation to the time and money spent. One of the reason I adopted SS tumbling rather than continue with a vibratory cleaner/corn cob media was to get clean primer pockets without another step.

 

[lawman29]

New brass: chamfer the mouth, load and go shoot. After first firing then trim and as Graham said trim again when long enough to interfere.
Weigh each charge.

You're ready to go shoot.

Test the processes: Go to the range with your buddy. Have him load your gun (you don't know which reloads your shooting). You then shoot two ten shot groups, one with the minimal prep I described and one with the "anal" prep. Note the differences. Form conclusions...

 

[mkollman74]

I tend to consider myself a fairly lazy reloader. Not that I don't pay attention when I am loading - doing otherwise could very well be dangerous. What I mean is that I do as little as possible to get the results I want. I don't sort anything - ever, not even my LC LR brass by year. I full length resize - every case, every time. I weigh every charge every time. I chamfer case mouths after trimming. That's about it. If I am feeling a particular need to spend more time in the loading room, I may debur flash holes (it doesn't take much time). My loads shoot as well as I need them to - usuually hanging around 0.5 MOA or less (much less in some rifles). YMMV.

 

[damoncali]

If you're not trying to break a *consistent* .5 MOA (that means every 5 shot group you fire is under .5 MOA), you can be pretty relaxed about it. When you start pushing limits, the little things matter more.

Cleaning primer pockets is not something I do - I do check them visually to see if there's an unusual amount of crud present, and might scrape off a bit here an there - enough to make sure I'm seating primers against brass and not something else.

I turn necks, but that is because I shoot high power mostly. I use cases in 100 round lots, fire them until they break, and they damn near last the whole barrel. A season for me is less than 1000 rounds through a competition rifle, so turning necks every year or two is not something that bothers me. It lets me know exactly what the neck clearance is, and I believe it helps a little bit.

If I was shooting large lots of ammo outside of a high power range, I wouldn't turn necks, but I would spec a chamber that was a few thousandths over the loaded brass's largest neck diameter (it will vary by a thou or two if you don't turn) assuming a bolt gun. I also don't turn necks for semis. I built an AR for practice at 600 yards - I literally do nothing to the brass. I buy it and shoot it.

I don't anneal. I don't weigh cases. I don't do anything to the primer pockets. 95% of a good load is bullet choice, powder charge and seating depth - in that order.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Well, I clean primer pockets and nobody will ever convince me that it is a waste of time. It's worthwhile to me, part of my MOJO and you know how important that is?

"I don't anneal. I don't weigh cases. I don't do anything to the primer pockets. 95% of a good load is bullet choice, powder charge and seating depth - in that order."

This is fine with me.

However, those three things are minor, compared to a top quality, premium barrel. A three quarter inch barrel cannot be made into a quarter incher with seating depth, powder charge, or choosing an accurate bullet. In that order. BB

edit: what do you say to those guys wet tumbling w/ SS, for the purpose of gleaming, jewel quality brass? Are they wasting their time? It's their time, how they use it is up to them. I say, knock yourself out, and if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. But don't discourage those that find value in their labor. Maybe you are proud of the fact that you don't brush your teeth, but that's not my problem, nor does it convince me to do the same. (No offense, we're just talking, K?)

 

[Kirkd]

Don't over look Winchester brass. I read the reloading for long rang that is sticky in this thread and was pleasantly surprised by how close the cases weighted within 2 grains of each other. I had like 4 cases that were outliers. I went with the Winchester because i couldn't find Lapau brass and because other long rang shooters turned me onto that brand.