Newbie training with a single case of ammo.

[vinniedelpino]

What’s the best way to burn 1000 rounds for a new AR owner?

I’ve had a number of friends and family members ask for input on buying a first AR. Most are NOT regular shooters. I’m sure we’ve all run into this situation.

I’m thinking basic fundamentals and then more of a data collection exercise that anything else.

In other words, run a bunch of drills to determine their effective distances and rates of fire from different positions, etc. I’m trying to be realistic here. They’re not going to shoot enough to become truly efficient. At least this way they can accept the reality that they’re not going to grab a carbine and shoot like John Wick. Maybe if they know their limitations they can use that to their advantage.

Thoughts?

Is there a more efficient approach for a newbie that’s only going to shoot once every couple of months?

 

[oldrifleman]

My thoughts and suggestion is to take a couple of multiday classes to instill some habits from the beginning so that when they do shoot they are building on the right things.

 

[simonp]

My thoughts and suggestion is to take a couple of multiday classes to instill some habits from the beginning so that when they do shoot they are building on the right things.

Good advice, agreed.

 

[vinniedelpino]

My thoughts and suggestion is to take a couple of multiday classes to instill some habits from the beginning so that when they do shoot they are building on the right things.

I like the idea, but getting them to invest the time and money into a multiday class is highly unlikely.

In all likelihood, they'd shoot the rifle out of the box, then put it away for six months. When they pick it up again, it'd be at a public range from a bench.

You know... like 95% of gun owners in America.

 

[alamo5000]

To be honest I would say (depending on the proximity to the shooting location) is to NOT try and burn all the ammo at once. Especially if they are new do some games or something vs just some random mag dump or trying to learn tactics or whatever.

For example give each person two to three mags and then create some form of small competition. Even something as simple as shooting beer cans is good. First round hit? 5 points. Second round hit 3 points...all at various distances and such. There are 10,000 options and are only limited to your imagination.

The goal is to learn to be judicious and to promote the nuanced use of the rifle. It also should be spaced out over multiple days or weeks, or more.

Once they are in the habit of going shooting and are a lot more comfortable with it, then you can move on to bigger things. Especially when they are new, the goal is to have fun and learn the wholesome aspect of shooting and safety and just how to be comfortable with things. In other words, don't go into the deep end too early. What you consider deep end and what they consider deep end are two different things.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I’m trying to be realistic here. They’re not going to shoot enough to become truly efficient.

Good luck. I've been here a few times. Chances are you'll spend a whole weekend just trying to get the basics of operation down. Then they'll drop off the radar.
6 months later they'll be all excited to go shooting again and you'll have to re teach them how to engage the safety, because they haven't so much as thought about the gun since your initial range day.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I like the idea, but getting them to invest the time and money into a multiday class is highly unlikely.

In all likelihood, they'd shoot the rifle out of the box, then put it away for six months. When they pick it up again, it'd be at a public range from a bench.

You know... like 95% of gun owners in America.

Just let em know when it is game time they will be the first ones to get clapped. Thank them for their preps, they will go to someone who is.

It's amazing how many people think owning something instills competency. Like 80% of gun owners are this way. You can try to explain it to them but it's usually a lost cause.

Want to lose your faith in humanity...go to a public range before hunting season and watch people try to zero.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Good luck. I've been here a few times. Chances are you'll spend a whole weekend just trying to get the basics of operation down. Then they'll drop off the radar.
6 months later they'll be all excited to go shooting again and you'll have to re teach them how to engage the safety, because they haven't so much as thought about the gun since your initial range day.

Yup. Not your problem. Remind them if they aren't an asset to you, they are a liability. Don't got time for dead weight. If they actually want to seek out knowledge then it will be provided and encouraged, but it's up to them to take the initiative.

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

A few thoughts, this is the sort of thing I could go on about ad nauseum so sorry if this is tldr:

Will/Desire: If the person doesn't have an earnest desire to gain skill with their weapon, nothing else matters. You can give them all the advice in the world and it isn't going to translate into them attaining skill because they won't put in the work. This is a whole huge topic unto itself so I won't elaborate here, but assuming the person we are talking about has an earnest desire to get better, the ability to critically analyze themself and improve (i.e. is realistic and not fantastical about their skill with the weapon right now), and is willing to put the time in, then I would next get them squared with:

Targets/Timer: You want to use the same target consistently to track progress across time, and for gaining an implicit understanding of the difficulty of resolving a given shooting problem. I personally like USPSA or IDPA cardboard targets which you can buy for the cost of about 2 rounds of ammo at Midwayusa. Combine with brown tape and they last for a bunch of rounds. If for some reason that's not an option, you can use printable targets, such as the NRA B8. A shot timer is absolutely a must have. You can use apps on your phone that may or may not work, but if your at all serious about getting good with a rifle or a handgun, a shot timer is an investment that pays for itself many times over.

Skills: I would breakdown the fundamental skills of a rifle like so:

1. Ready position to fire. In other words, you see a target, and from whatever position you normally carry the rifle in (lets just say low ready) you mount the weapon, and hit the target. This is very simple to practice. Take a single USPSA target and a shot timer, set the target at 10M, fire a shot. Make note of your time, and now work to beat that time. Rinse and repeat. Do the same at 50M and intermediate distances. Don't forget about doing some at very close range to learn your offset. To me, this is the absolute fundamental skill of a rifleman, and should be the cornerstone of your practice.
2. Transitions. After hitting one target, how quickly can you acquire a new target and place one shot. This could be USPSA targets one pace away at 10M, it could be the same at 50M, could be 10 paces apart at 50M, it could be a 90 degree transition, it could be a mozambique or zipper drill where you transition vertically.
3. Positional Shooting: From a ready position, get into a position such as kneeling or prone and do the above. For prone shooting, you'll be wanting to do the above with smaller or further away targets.
4. Recoil Control: Do the above, but fire 2 shots at each target. You can also do bill drills and similar at varying distances.
5. Entering/Exiting Positions: Do the above, then run to a second shooting position and do it again.
6. Cover/Environment: Do the above while shooting from behind cover. For positional shooting, this includes using your environment to build shooting positions, such as kneeling position with the rifles forend resting on a rock.

Those are what I consider the key fundamentals of rifle shooting. There are other skills like shooting while moving, reloads, malfunction drills, shooting offside, etc.... but the above encompass so much that I wouldn't even worry about those lesser skills until you are solid on those fundamentals.

Dry Fire: Take all of the above and do it at home with reduced size targets. This is really where you attain the skills. I have a great phone app called dryfire par timer for this. If you can dedicate 10 minutes a day, 2-3 times a week, that one case of ammo will get you farther than 10 cases of ammo would for someone who just mindlessly plinks at the range, and in far less time. The only thing you can't dryfire is recoil control, and precision/positional shooting might not be workable depending on how much space you have.

PS you talked about giving them a reality check so they can understand their current skill level? Pick any shooting evaluation and have them shoot it. Proper targets and a shot timer are a must. That will be a sobering reality check and give them a concrete idea of what they should be working towards. Some examples include:
-Redback One Carbine Standards
-CSAT Rifle Instructor Standards
-Frank Proctor Soul Crusher
-Defoor Proformance Carbine Test

Don't have time for any of those? How about just a good 'ol El Presidente. Targets 10M away or so. You can use USPSA pistol times for scoring... remind them this should be easier since they are using a rifle.

 

[LawTalker]

Have them do an Appleseed (two days) to learn safety and the fundamentals of marksmanship.

If they show some promise, have them do another Appleseed a few weeks later.

If they have not yet earned a Rifleman's patch, then have them do another Appleseed until they earn a Rifleman's patch.

Once they have the Rifleman's patch, tell them to do a 2-3 day "Level 1" Carbine course, something that is about 2-3 days and has a round count of about 200 rounds per day and incorporates basic tactics and movement.

If you cannot handle safety and you are not able to gain a basic command over the fundamental positions of sling supported prone, seated, and standing, then you shouldn't be doing tactical carbine classes.

If they have absolutely never handled a rifle before, send them to the NRA Basic Rifle course to start with before they go to the Appleseed.

 

[LawTalker]

Just let em know when it is game time they will be the first ones to get clapped. Thank them for their preps, they will go to someone who is.

It's amazing how many people think owning something instills competency. Like 80% of gun owners are this way. You can try to explain it to them but it's usually a lost cause.

Want to lose your faith in humanity...go to a public range before hunting season and watch people try to zero.

I was going to a public rifle range about twice per week in 2023. I wound up looking down the muzzle of some dude with his Mauser 98K because he decided he needed to swing left by about 90 degrees and muzzle everybody to his left when he wanted to work the bolt. I sort of want to carry a fire extinguisher with me so I can just spray people over things such as that.

 

[MarshallDodge]

As much as I like drills, etc, you can really turn a newbie off pretty quick if they don't have the desire.

First thing I would do is work on target shooting, paper or steel. Maybe throw some melons or soda cans down range for some fun and reaction.

Baby steps

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Based on your posts, I would decline to assist them. Let them know what they are asking isn't really a good idea and pretty much will be a waste of your time. That you'd be happy to help when they are willing and able to put in the proper work.

Sometimes just saying no is the best path forward. Be polite and positively encourage them to take a different approach.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Based on your posts, I would decline to assist them. Let them know what they are asking isn't really a good idea and pretty much will be a waste of your time. That you'd be happy to help when they are willing and able to put in the proper work.

Sometimes just saying no is the best path forward. Be polite and positively encourage them to take a different approach.

Damn, your always ready to help make people better.

 

[AR shooter]

A dude that comes into work asked me how to build an AR. He wanted one because of the political climate and said he had only shot a hand gun once in his life. I told him what he needed so he bought it all and built it. Then he wanted me to show him how to shoot it. I took a 243 AR I had built for long range. He hit 5 out of 6 shots at 600 with my gun. I would take them out ,set targets up and let them shoot. As long as you don’t see any safety issues you might be creating a shooter.

 

[abn31c]

Based on your posts, I would decline to assist them. Let them know what they are asking isn't really a good idea and pretty much will be a waste of your time. That you'd be happy to help when they are willing and able to put in the proper work.

Sometimes just saying no is the best path forward. Be polite and positively encourage them to take a different approach.

It's disheartening that you are involved in shooting sports.

 

[roostercogburn98]

It's disheartening that you are involved in shooting sports.

I was working on making him my one and only friend. Some people in hurr ain’t bee helpun

 

[roostercogburn98]

Want to lose your faith in humanity...go to a public range before hunting season and watch people try to zero.

I thought you were better than this

 

[Threadcutter308]

I was working on making him my one and only friend. Some people in hurr ain’t bee helpun

I'll be yer fren..........

Does that make me sloppy seconds ?

 

[roostercogburn98]

I'll be yer fren..........

View attachment 8392549

Does that make me sloppy seconds ?

Don’t get your nuts all twisted up

 

[TheBigCountry]

Damn, your always ready to help make people better.

That’s the Dave way

 

[Terry Cross]

What’s the best way to burn 1000 rounds for a new AR owner?

Slowly and with not more than 2 to 4 shots before breaking position and resetting from scratch.

I’ve had a number of friends and family members ask for input on buying a first AR. Most are NOT regular shooters. I’m sure we’ve all run into this situation.

I’m thinking basic fundamentals and then more of a data collection exercise that anything else.

In other words, run a bunch of drills to determine their effective distances and rates of fire from different positions, etc. I’m trying to be realistic here. They’re not going to shoot enough to become truly efficient. At least this way they can accept the reality that they’re not going to grab a carbine and shoot like John Wick. Maybe if they know their limitations they can use that to their advantage.

Thoughts?

Is there a more efficient approach for a newbie that’s only going to shoot once every couple of months?

Don't "preach" to them but explain just once that a fuck up with their new AR will result in somebody's funeral or a life altering lawsuit.
If they aren't regular shooters and have a rather nonchalant view of firearms, they may not understand how bad that snake can bite when handled wrong.
Remind them that half ass is not what they should work toward. Once you gave them an adult, condensed version it's up to them to be responsible.

As far as actual training for total newbs, I would triple down on making them do basic function and gun handling drills. Loading, unloading , mag changes, press checking, safety manipulation until it is automatic, clearing stoppages, etc.
Mix a one or two shot sequence in to it each time to keep their attention.

Try to talk them into purchasing a 22LR conversion similar to the CMMG and a few bricks of 22LR ammo. The rifle still functions same as usual but way less expensive to put down a lot of gun handling drills and also very, very good at bringing new shooters up to speed because of low noise and zero blast.

Again, I would push very heavy toward low round count per string and work on gun handling, gun handling, gun handling. . . .

If they are serious or become serious, they can come back to you for more instruction and direction.
If they don't, it is not on you but you can feel good about trying to do as much as they would allow.

 

[diggler1833]

I've found that 2 hours of dry practice (up/down) just about takes all of the wind out of their sails. If you want to have a civilian family member start their journey to sharing your passion for proficiency and training, you have to add a little fun to it. That means adding a combination of safety, fundamentals, drills, and a few rounds of supervised fire - focusing in that order. I've yet to have someone appreciate me working on their fundamentals like a PMI, because it just takes the fun right out of it. However, you can inject some of the fundamentals with lessons learned on steel downrange ("want to know why you're stringing vertically/going low & left?" ect...).

I look at it a lot like weight lifting. Everyone wants to see immediate results, and some will quit because they aren't at an elite level within a few days. However, a little noticeable difference here and there will often having them come back for more.

Definitely they learn on a .22 first. Not only do you eliminate a lot of the blast that causes disruption to attention/focus, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper...especially if they give up on keeping with it.

Reactive targets increase enjoyment exponentially too IMO. My wife loves working her pistol on steel at 15 yards outside the shop. I don't even have to beg her to come out and play with me. The girls really enjoy popping cans etc...

 

[LuckyLuke80]

One suggestion I would make before even having them shoot too much is clear the area of ammo and show them how to field strip it and learn the inner workings a little. Mostly wouldn’t try to hammer too much into them at once. Let them see the pleasure in shooting a carbine and if it’s their thing they will self motivate and you can just help steer them.

 

[david walter]

Buy a PSA 22 upper, train for everything but mostly for first round hits, and reloads.

Sign up for urban rifle at Thunder Ranch. Take your 223/5.56 upper with a red dot sight, and a case of ammo and 20 mags.

Repeat for everyone in the family.

 

[themightytimmah]

For most folks, it’s about the joy of shooting. 99.9% of us here will never use a firearm in a defensive fashion. I wouldn’t overthink it - basic safety, then plinking at some reactive targets (clays, soda cans steel).

If they enjoy that, print off some AQTs. Great practice for positional shooting and practical marksmanship that will serve them well for hunting and in the off, off, off chance they ever need to use their rifle for defense.

No need for them to shoot a 3 moa group offhand or tenth of a second splits on controlled pairs. If they enjoy shooting, all that can come later.