Night Vision News just broke. Iray Rico Micro. Skeet IRX / Voodoo competitor for half the price ? Discussions thread.

[adamjma]

The user manual for the Euro version (PFN 640+) is online here:

https://www.falconclaw.eu/wp-conten...onal-night-vision-monocular-user-guide-EN.pdf

Doesn't cover off how to calibrate/collimate the clip on setting.

 

[rlsmith1]

Sorry, I should clarify: The mount that we designed with American Defense consists of two pieces - 1. A dovetail/picatinny combo that mounts to the body of the Micro and 2. A reversible double-sided throw lever mount that stays on the rifle, similar to the FTS mount. The reason the American Defense mount won't work with the FTS mount is because the picatinny rail section won't clear the hinge on the FTS (see below).

You can put a K-Clip on the stock rail for the Micro, which can work for helmet mounting, but your alignment will be off for weapon mount and clip-on use.

In a clip-on configuration, the minor movement from the FTS mount shouldn't be an issue, but it can result in a significant shift in a stand-alone weapon sight configuration.

Wouldn't the movement also impact clip-on performance since this isn't collimated?

 

[rich20730]

I’m going to call BS (on IRAY, not you).

That makes absolutely zero sense.

If that statement was true, iray could (and would) simply do that adjustment at the factory before boxing it up.

What IS possible, is that there are multiple zero save points, just like every other “zero the screen” clip-on. That may be what they were meaning, but if so, the statement is inaccurate and misleading.

That was me who made that statement. The reason I stated it that way is because although these units go through a digital collimation procedure at the factory, my experience has been that they don't always get it right. This applies, not only to products made in China, but also US-made clip-ons, both commercial and milspec. Another reason, especially with new products, is that they may have gotten a firmware update or factory reset which wipes the original adjustments.

For these reasons, the best practice when you first receive the scope is to check collimation and make any necessary adjustments before putting it into use. Since the adjustment is digital, the process is fairly straightforward and not much more complicated that zeroing a weapon scope.

 

[rich20730]

Wouldn't the movement also impact clip-on performance since this isn't collimated?

If a clip-on is designed properly, small changes in alignment and cant shouldn't cause a POI shift.

 

[WhereNow&How]

@rich20730 What is the distance from the top of the rifle pic rail to optical center of the unit ?

 

[rich20730]

@rich20730 What is the distance from the top of the rifle pic rail to optical center of the unit ?

1.5"

 

[Evolution 9]

If a clip-on is designed properly, small changes in alignment and cant shouldn't cause a POI shift.

True, but how many commercial clip ons are designed properly? Zero. Not one.

 

[Evolution 9]

That was me who made that statement. The reason I stated it that way is because although these units go through a digital collimation procedure at the factory, my experience has been that they don't always get it right. This applies, not only to products made in China, but also US-made clip-ons, both commercial and milspec. Another reason, especially with new products, is that they may have gotten a firmware update or factory reset which wipes the original adjustments.

For these reasons, the best practice when you first receive the scope is to check collimation and make any necessary adjustments before putting it into use. Since the adjustment is digital, the process is fairly straightforward and not much more complicated that zeroing a weapon scope.

Thanks for the response, but I still call BS.

If this was true, it would cost $10 in labor (American labor) for these $6000 devices to leave the factory or US distribution center fully ready for precise clip-on use.

No company capable of creating a thermal scope, and capable of running a successful business wouldn’t spend that ten bucks.

Absolutely zero chance. None.

Sadly, most users lack the precision tools or mindset to form a valid test to prove this, so the first few reviews will likely muddy the waters.

I hope I’m somehow wrong here, and if I am, I’ll publicly plunk down the 6000 “I was wrong”s, but if you were to bet on my claims or the thermal industry’s claims, that’s not the way you’d bet.

 

[RKM556]

Could we get a few more close ups of the mounting system? I’m interested in this two piece mounting deal with ADM.

 

[rich20730]

Could we get a few more close ups of the mounting system? I’m interested in this two piece mounting deal with ADM.

 

[GreenMushroom]

That's very nice work. I didn't get it before. Can you do the nox next

Can you run it with the battery to the inside next to a 14 or is it a top and bottom like the nox.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Smart mount design. Very cool

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

The same thing happened to my yoter c, adjusted it to one gun, now it's 1 moa on every gun and scope combo I throw it on.

 

[EchoFiveIndia]

The same thing happened to my yoter c, adjusted it to one gun, now it's 1 moa on every gun and scope combo I throw it on.

Interesting. Makes me wonder if that’s fairly normal but no one knows it because they never use their thermals on multiple rifles…

I’m certainly guilty of that. I only ever used my Hogster C on one rifle. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Depending on AO and my mood I have a dozen different hog guns with all different scopes and calibers that I choose between. But once my Theon XELR comes in, that yoter C may go into storage.

 

[rich20730]

That's very nice work. I didn't get it before. Can you do the nox next

Can you run it with the battery to the inside next to a 14 or is it a top and bottom like the nox.

 

[rlsmith1]

RICO MICRO 384 12 Micron 25mm Multi-Purpose Monocular

The RICO MICRO Series is an advanced electro-optic device miniaturized to deliver remarkably versatile functionality: Handheld, helmet mount, and weapon mount.

irayusa.com

Curious how the 384 sensor would compare? Just by looking at specs the only difference is narrower FOV (10.5deg x 7.9deg). Lends me to believe it would be worse as a head mounted unit but might have similar performance as the 640 (with smaller FOV)?

Anyone played with the 384 version yet?

ETA: Just saw the base mag on the 384 is 2x. Not sure how that plays into everything other than throwing holds off in the scope

 

[French1966]

RICO MICRO 384 12 Micron 25mm Multi-Purpose Monocular

The RICO MICRO Series is an advanced electro-optic device miniaturized to deliver remarkably versatile functionality: Handheld, helmet mount, and weapon mount.

irayusa.com

Curious how the 384 sensor would compare? Just by looking at specs the only difference is narrower FOV (10.5deg x 7.9deg). Lends me to believe it would be worse as a head mounted unit but might have similar performance as the 640 (with smaller FOV)?

Anyone played with the 384 version yet?

ETA: Just saw the base mag on the 384 is 2x. Not sure how that plays into everything other than throwing holds off in the scope

2x pretty much rules out helmet mounting IMO, which takes away from what I would want it for (all in one unit)

I’m sure some people might not care and will just scan at 2x, but it’s a dealbreaker for me.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

RICO MICRO 384 12 Micron 25mm Multi-Purpose Monocular

The RICO MICRO Series is an advanced electro-optic device miniaturized to deliver remarkably versatile functionality: Handheld, helmet mount, and weapon mount.

irayusa.com

Curious how the 384 sensor would compare? Just by looking at specs the only difference is narrower FOV (10.5deg x 7.9deg). Lends me to believe it would be worse as a head mounted unit but might have similar performance as the 640 (with smaller FOV)?

Anyone played with the 384 version yet?

ETA: Just saw the base mag on the 384 is 2x. Not sure how that plays into everything other than throwing holds off in the scope

If im not mistaken the RL isnt clip on capable. Im pretty sure that will mean it doesnt have the poi adjustment like the RH. Rich can confirm, im just guessing.

Jay

 

[wsaelee]

Does it have collamated eyepeice lens?
i.e. if you move the unit around, does the scope reticle stay in the same spot?

 

[Conqueror]

This or the MH25 for helmet use? The MH25 seems smaller and lighter but I dunno it’s FOV and maybe it’s not true 1x?

 

[EchoFiveIndia]

This or the MH25 for helmet use? The MH25 seems smaller and lighter but I dunno it’s FOV and maybe it’s not true 1x?

MH25:

Optical Magnification	1.1X
Digital Magnification	8X
Housing Material	Aluminum / ABS / Copper / Glass / Germanium
Objective Focal Length	25mm
Objective Diameter	25mm
Objective F#	1.0
Objective Focusing Range	2 meters to infinity
Horizontal Angular Field of View	17.5
Vertical Angular Field of View	14

 

[Conqueror]

Sounds like an identical field of view. I don’t know how much of an issue the 1.1x is but at 4oz lighter and $2k cheaper the MH25 would seem the winner for helmet use. I welcome others to tell me why I’m wrong though, I have never yet owned a helmet-mounted thermal.

 

[jstokes1]

Sounds like an identical field of view. I don’t know how much of an issue the 1.1x is but at 4oz lighter and $2k cheaper the MH25 would seem the winner for helmet use. I welcome others to tell me why I’m wrong though, I have never yet owned a helmet-mounted thermal.

You would be correct in that statement. The MH25 is the better option for helmet mounting. This unit is for those that want a mini thermal that can be helmet mounted, has a better housing construction (metal as opposed to polymer), and is weapons rated.

 

[rlsmith1]

@Surgeon_Shooter did you ever get a video of this thing?

Also, curious why you would stick with this over a Voodoo S even if the Voodoo were discounted in price? Appreciate the insight

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

You can get two of these, a ballistic helmet, bridge, and still be under the price of a Voodoo.

 

[rlsmith1]

You can get two of these, a ballistic helmet, bridge, and still be under the price of a Voodoo.

It's crazy! Some would say you will need two commie units to have the same reliability as one American unit and they might not be wrong. But a recoil rating and 5 year warranty fixes that question for all but those who will be using this for targets that shoot back...

I'm curious what makes Jay say he would still go with the RH25 over the Voodoo even if the Voodoo was priced cheaper though. I've yet to decide if I want to support the communist takeover of my country but the performance on these things for the price is strong. Maybe I should sell my iPhone...

 

[rich20730]

Here are some quick videos I made with the Micro.

Handwarmer at 60 yards through Trijicon Accupower 1-8x. SkeetIR and UTMx comparison for reference.



Brief demonstration of collimation/digital alignment



POA/POI shift day optic vs. day optic + clip-on; POI shift when swapping day optics (no additional collimation adjustment).

 

[rlsmith1]

Looks like it competes very favorably with the UTM X (and it's clear both were made to be a clip on where the Skeet was not). What were you using for backing? It almost felt like everything was focused on the trees instead of the hand warmer?

 

[Milf Dots]

Who owns IRay USA- does IRay USA have any business connection to China?
Are these units made in China?

Trying to find out about the company and product.

Thanks

 

[rlsmith1]

They are as Chinese as the Chinese restaurant down the street. Or as about as Chinese as your iPhone 13.

I'll let someone with a better understanding of the particulars comment though

 

[rich20730]

Looks like it competes very favorably with the UTM X (and it's clear both were made to be a clip on where the Skeet was not). What were you using for backing? It almost felt like everything was focused on the trees instead of the hand warmer?

Fence in my backyard

 

[EchoFiveIndia]

@rich20730 does it look better in person than in the video? The video seemed a little fuzzy like the camera was focusing on the reticle causing the screen in the rh25 to be slightly out of focus…

 

[rich20730]

Who owns IRay USA- does IRay USA have any business connection to China?
Are these units made in China?

Trying to find out about the company and product.

Thanks

Same person that owns Ultimate Night Vision. Iray USA and Ultimate Night Vision are both Texas companies. Every employee, except for one is from Texas. Angelo is from Oregon, but we don't hold it against him.

IRay USA is the US distributor for InfiRay Outdoor, which is based in China. IRay USA handles all US sales, customer service, and warranty support for InfiRay Products. IRay USA is responsible for testing and developing products before they are released in the US. Product development for InfiRay Outdoor products includes improvements to hardware, software and user interface.

Optics listed under the IRay USA brand, such as the Bravo and soon to be released Alpha, are designed and manufactured in Texas.

IRay USA also designs and/or manufactures accessories for InfiRay products, such as the Offset Rail Adapter and PVS-14 Eyepiece Adapter for the MH25 and the American Defense Shoe and Mount for the Micro.

 

[Milf Dots]

Same person that owns Ultimate Night Vision. Iray USA and Ultimate Night Vision are both Texas companies. Every employee, except for one is from Texas. Angelo is from Oregon, but we don't hold it against him.

IRay USA is the US distributor for InfiRay Outdoor, which is based in China. IRay USA handles all US sales, customer service, and warranty support for InfiRay Products. IRay USA is responsible for testing and developing products before they are released in the US. Product development for InfiRay Outdoor products includes improvements to hardware, software and user interface.

Optics listed under the IRay USA brand, such as the Bravo and soon to be released Alpha, are designed and manufactured in Texas.

IRay USA also designs and/or manufactures accessories for InfiRay products, such as the Offset Rail Adapter and PVS-14 Eyepiece Adapter for the MH25 and the American Defense Shoe and Mount for the Micro.

So the chinese company infiRay owns iRay USA?

 

[rich20730]

@rich20730 does it look better in person than in the video? The video seemed a little fuzzy like the camera was focusing on the reticle causing the screen in the rh25 to be slightly out of focus…

Yes it does look better in person. Getting through-the-eyepiece footage from a clip-on is difficult. The ambient light, especially in the first video when it was still daylight, caused some interference which reduced the contrast a bit. The auto exposure on the GoPro created some bloom on the brighter objects in the image, which may have caused them to look fuzzy.

Overall, I would still say the video is pretty close to what you would see with the naked eye and I would say it is a fair representation of how each clip-on looks in relation to the others.

 

[rich20730]

So the chinese company infiRay owns iRay USA?

No

 

[WhereNow&How]

So the chinese company infiRay owns iRay USA?

See it's kinda like this.

Them Texans had to go over to Saudi Arabia, Libya etc etc and show them how to produce oil correctly and controlled it for a good while.

So them Texans are now taking control of IRay thermal core products in the US and gonna make some "texas light sweet" out of it.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

It's the best way to do Chinese Thermal, a lot of the money stays in Texas. Not all, but a lot. Also when you pick up the phone you get a gentleman rather than it sounding like you are ordering general tso's chicken on the other end.

 

[EWS6]

Same person that owns Ultimate Night Vision. Iray USA and Ultimate Night Vision are both Texas companies. Every employee, except for one is from Texas. Angelo is from Oregon, but we don't hold it against him.

IRay USA is the US distributor for InfiRay Outdoor, which is based in China. IRay USA handles all US sales, customer service, and warranty support for InfiRay Products. IRay USA is responsible for testing and developing products before they are released in the US. Product development for InfiRay Outdoor products includes improvements to hardware, software and user interface.

Optics listed under the IRay USA brand, such as the Bravo and soon to be released Alpha, are designed and manufactured in Texas.

IRay USA also designs and/or manufactures accessories for InfiRay products, such as the Offset Rail Adapter and PVS-14 Eyepiece Adapter for the MH25 and the American Defense Shoe and Mount for the Micro.

Would you say the micro is berry compliant?

 

[EchoFiveIndia]

I love General Tso’s Chicken.

 

[Milf Dots]

No

iRay USA's "about" page shows a very close relationship to the Chinese mothership... Perhaps i asked the wrong question with the word "own".

My curiosity is piqued.

 

[Totdoc]

The video is super helpful, I just wish the focus had been on the fence rather than the tree on the right of the frame.
The utm seemed like the only one that held some details of the fence through the upper mag range, but that would make sense given the narrower fov of that device.
The thing that jumped out at me, though, is the same thing I noted on the mh25: the image of the iray looks "flat" in comparison to the others. Especially now that the day pic was posted, you can see that the depth of field for the iray vs the others is very different. With the utm, in particular, there was almost a "walking through the 3d forest" feel as the zoom in occurred, whilst it just looked like you were zooming in on a flat image with the iray.
It had been hard for me to describe previously, until seeing it directly compared here

 

[rlsmith1]

It's the best way to do Chinese Thermal, a lot of the money stays in Texas. Not all, but a lot. Also when you pick up the phone you get a gentleman rather than it sounding like you are ordering general tso's chicken on the other end.

Not only that, Texas has minimal domestic tax so you limit the dollars given to our clowns too!

 

[Bri0242]

Not compatible with the FTS mount, but the mount we designed is better IMO. Much more solid and repeatable if using as a standalone weapon sight.

Also, Surgeon_Shooter is the man and my hero.

Where does one find your mount?

 

[rich20730]

Would you say the micro is berry compliant?

This is definitely not my area of expertise, but doesn't the Berry Amendment specifically pertain to things like clothing/textiles, food and tools?

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

A Chinese Thermal would not have to be Berry Compliant

 

[rich20730]

Where does one find your mount?

It will be available through all authorized iRay USA dealers. I know there are at least a few on this site - Sure Shot Night Vision, O'Neill Ops DownRangeThermal, Thermal Optics Plus...

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

A Chinese Thermal would not have to be Berry Compliant

The RH25 Micro is “berry good” for the money

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

@Surgeon_Shooter did you ever get a video of this thing?

Also, curious why you would stick with this over a Voodoo S even if the Voodoo were discounted in price? Appreciate the insight

Sorry for the delay man. I’m down with the flu. Started getting better yesterday and I’m dying again today. If I survive I’ll get a video I promise. Not to mention we have an inch of ice on everything outside right now. Here’s this for the time being….